#f1nn point point

[f1nns1deblog]

screenshots from 6/12/23 stream, posted by u/blusau

[0w0tsuki]

What?! Being blocked by someone retroactively deletes your reblogs of them even on your blog like id don't mind the blocking I just want to keep my sweet dunk on them for prosperity's sake

[flieder-house]

I wanna be a boygirl so bad sob sob sob i wanna crossdress girlboy femboy boygirl pLEASE

[frostops]

my issue with f1nnster is less about him and more about the larger trend he has kind of become a microcosm of. the combination of irony-poisoned “everything is a bit” mentality, the way the interent incentivizes monetizing your “genuine” self, and the increased acceptance of gender nonconformity and the subsequent pushback against that acceptance has made it so that the safest (relatively speaking) way to be gnc is to frame it as a joke. F1nn’s bit is that you pay him money to “force” him to dress as a girl, but i think its fair to say that he does enjoy dressing that way, and he could just stop at any point.

I remember a few years ago when some tiktok was being spread on this site of a guy in a maid dress, where you hear someone walk in on him and he starts to explain himself in a panic before the video cuts. Like obviously he was fine if he uploaded the video, but the framing of the joke is one that lets the viewer laugh at the idea of him being in a bad situation for being gnc. And a lot of the trend of guys crossdressing for content has this same air about. And its not like i think people should never make jokes about themselves or their gender presentation, but these jokes being the only expression reinforces the idea that being gnc  without any ironic self awareness is something to be mocked. These guys get in on the joke, and as a result, do save themselves from some, but certainly not all, of the harassment for it. Its certainly not going to protect them from transphobic laws looking to ban all gender nonconformity.

Trans women cant really do that. That option to situationally frame it as just a joke isnt really and option for us, or for people who arent just crossdressing for content online. And when the nature of some of the jokes often comes off as “at least im not someone who does this because i like it” its kind of inevitably going to create some hostility. And F1nn being the most well known of these guys means a good portion of that is going to be aimed at him, even if he isnt really responsible for all that. But hes well off enough financially and gets so much interaction from his fans that i doubt hed even notice the few trans women who dislike him if his fans didnt make a huge deal about it every time they caught wind of a even a mild complaint about him.

[lesser-vissir]

🏳️‍⚧️ frostops Follow

my issue with f1nnster is less about him and more about the larger trend he has kind of become a microcosm of. the combination of irony-poisoned “everything is a bit” mentality, the way the interent incentivizes monetizing your “genuine” self, and the increased acceptance of gender nonconformity and the subsequent pushback against that acceptance has made it so that the safest (relatively speaking) way to be gnc is to frame it as a joke. F1nn’s bit is that you pay him money to “force” him to dress as a girl, but i think its fair to say that he does enjoy dressing that way, and he could just stop at any point.

I remember a few years ago when some tiktok was being spread on this site of a guy in a maid dress, where you hear someone walk in on him and he starts to explain himself in a panic before the video cuts. Like obviously he was fine if he uploaded the video, but the framing of the joke is one that lets the viewer laugh at the idea of him being in a bad situation for being gnc. And a lot of the trend of guys crossdressing for content has this same air about. And its not like i think people should never make jokes about themselves or their gender presentation, but these jokes being the only expression reinforces the idea that being gnc  without any ironic self awareness is something to be mocked. These guys get in on the joke, and as a result, do save themselves from some, but certainly not all, of the harassment for it. Its certainly not going to protect them from transphobic laws looking to ban all gender nonconformity.

Trans women cant really do that. That option to situationally frame it as just a joke isnt really and option for us, or for people who arent just crossdressing for content online. And when the nature of some of the jokes often comes off as “at least im not someone who does this because i like it” its kind of inevitably going to create some hostility. And F1nn being the most well known of these guys means a good portion of that is going to be aimed at him, even if he isnt really responsible for all that. But hes well off enough financially and gets so much interaction from his fans that i doubt hed even notice the few trans women who dislike him if his fans didnt make a huge deal about it every time they caught wind of a even a mild complaint about him.

[khizuo]

(so i'm tme so if i'm overstepping shit i should be saying in this discourse please let me know and I will apologize, take accountability, and remove this post.)

i've been thinking about the whole f1nnster thing and something that I feel like people who reblog those "f1nn is so revolutionary™ for being a passing cis man" are trying to do is implicitly (or maybe explicitly, idk) support trans women in that statement by saying "see? you can't really tell who's cis or trans by looking at someone's appearance!! just look at this cis guy who passes as a girl!!"

and like. this analysis is so problematic, and not just because it's so removed from the reality of transmisogyny. because f1nn is not a trans woman. first of all, never mind the fact that trans women face wayy more harassment on twitch and receive way less monetary support than f1nn because they are 1) women and 2) trans. never mind the fact that plenty of trans women don't "pass" as cis women, even if they want to, because of medical, financial, or social barriers to transition; and of course many trans women might not want to "pass" as cis in the first place. even if neither of those things were true (which they are) the problem with upholding f1nn to try and support trans women is the fact that it implies trans women aren't women. it equates women with a cis man who dresses as a woman. i hope i don't have to explain why that is so problematic.

i know that tme people like myself probably don't do this consciously. with the amount of "trans women are women!!" posts we reblog. but it is implicit in these f1nnster posts, and the implications are harmful. like. there was a post going around a while ago making fun of this twitter thread by a Black transfem that was rightly pointing out that f1nnster's whole bit is based on transmisogynistic tropes and stereotypes (which is the case) and so many people jumped on the writer of the twitter thread to defend f1nn without first considering that the op was speaking from the position of being far more marginalized than f1nn is and ever will be. that's a problem.

supporting cis women streamers is probably closer to supporting transfems than supporting f1nnster is because you're supporting women. and of course we need to transfem streamers directly, whether it's monetarily or by sharing their work on tumblr instead of reblogging the 5th post about f1nnster. that's something that I need to get better at doing myself.

so, yeah. and reminder that I'm speaking about this from a position of privilege as a tme person‚ please call me out if i've said anything inappropriate.

[fipindustries]

following on my previous post about lesbians being attracted to extremely butch women, an interesting thing i noticed is that a lot of people seem to really care about the gender identity of a character or person to decide wether they feel attracted to them, or at the very least it plays an important role in it.

maybe my brain is just too bi wired for this but the last thing i care about is wether the other person identifies as a man or a woman to find them attractive, if their body (and personality for that matter) has traits that i think are hot ill like that person regardless. to the point that i have a hard time believe people really care about "gender identity" deep down and it isnt just some cultural thing.

f1nn is the perfect example of this, i think anyone who finds him attractive is deluding themselves by claiming that the fact he identifies as a man makes any difference on wether they find him hot.

[f1nns1deblog]

screenshot from 5/1/23 stream, posted by u/Odd_Sea3854

[a-teacup-of-golden-cracks]

if you cant/wont fact check claims about somebody dont spread them. thats how callouts against transfems start!! that person provided no proof of their claims and i have never seen any legitimate claims about f1nnster that dont boil down to "hes appropriating transness" (lol)

Oh I said that because clearly there's drama over F1nn and I wanted to be left out and have that post left out of it. Apologies for not making that clear.

The point of that post is that you should respect people's pronouns even if they don't change much or at all. I suppose now it's also about respecting pronouns if don't like the person as well tho

[sandinmybed]

ive never used femboy either, but there is definitely a problem in the fandom with people taking f1nn’s modelling side (a small % of who he is, and even then it’s his job. He’s given things to wear that suit his features) and twisting with it. neither mike or f1nn behave like the way the fandom makes them. just because of looks. again I don’t use language like femboy, that criticism is fair, but the trend of f1nn’s treatment for example affects will’s fanon too. People need to detach actors! we’re in a fandom people can head canon what they want, but i hope people dont get upset when they rewatch the show and see how Mike actually is. or see f1nn post on insta and see he’s so unlike how people treat him. And this isn’t just byl3r stans btw! f1llie stans and others of his stans do it too.

I've never seen anyone actually project any characteristics onto Finn because of his looks. Mike yeah maybe but not Finn. All the posts where I've seen people complaining about this, they're complaining about something I've never actually seen. At this point it just seems like people are mad that other folk find him attractive in a way they personally aren't into.

I don't really want to debate this tbh I've said my piece, there's not much way to debate this further without someone inevitably saying something weird about Finn/Mike's appearance or features and I'm blocking anyone who comes into my ask with that

[mandatory-blog-stop-asking]

took two fucking weeks.

f1nn's been doing this bit for years but two weeks into saying this was something he actually wanted to pursue for himself, he becomes a target.

can't even pretend at this point. a literal campaign, adapting as it goes.

British media straight up doxxed F1nn5ster because he donated in support of trans healthcare.

Not linking the article because fuck the Times.

[khizuo]

I think there’s a lot more nuance to your f1nn5ter take that’s missing simply because it doesn’t really take into account… how and why people use tumblr?

most people don’t use tumblr to try and advance queer liberation or promote social justice and mutual aid…. they use it for entertainment first and foremost. they want to post/see things that they enjoy, instead of focusing solely on real life issues. hell, tumblr can also be an ‘escape’ of sorts from the shitty reality around them (or that they personally experience)

so they just… don’t want to make their entire feed about those real life struggles, and doom posts about those trying to kill and erase them, and people asking for help to escape their shitty lives. it’s distressing and sad and not what they come to tumblr for. instead they focus on things that are more simple and lighthearted and positive, like a popular gnc streamer.

the point I’m trying to make here is that…. I don’t think you can accurately judge someone’s moral beliefs or actions based on their posting/reblogging habits, because for them this isn’t the moral beliefs website— that’s not what they’re here for. It might be for you, and that’s okay! but that’s not how it is for, id argue, the majority of users. they want a safe space away from that and i don’t think pressuring or shaming bloggers for doing that (/for not posting about [X] issue) is going to help anyone.

hi anon! if anyone out there following me uses tumblr as an escapism site™, then good for you. i'm commenting less on the moral character of individual people as i am on a general culture i've observed on the site as a whole. and the fact is: posts about how "revolutionary" f1nnster are get tens of thousands of notes while trans crowdfund posts struggle to get to a thousand.

the thing is — very few people on tumblr are completely removed from the reality of queer oppression. posts on the topic are frequently reblogged, because such a large part of the userbase is lgbtq. this is why f1nn is so popular on tumblr rn — people are upholding him as a shining example of gender-noncomformity. the problem comes when people (mostly tme queer people) start legitimately calling him more "revolutionary" than trans women because he's "challenging gender norms" or something. this completely ignores context — f1nnster is a popular wealthy white streamer, while transfemme folks often face disproportionate levels of violence and poverty, often as a direct result of coming out.

a lot of tumblr activism is performative. i'm not saying this in a "this makes xyz a bad person" kind of way, what i mean is that posts about social justice and hating capitalism and shit will blow up with the people reblogging them doing nothing to actually build material solidarity, which, yes, involves mutual aid and uplifting marginalized voices. now, i don't know everyone on tumblr, so I'm sure there are people who do mutual aid/organizing work offline and then come on here to exclusively fandompost. but i'm also sure there are people who don't do any mutual aid/organizing work and who then come on here to reblog a few social justice-y posts and then never think about concrete actions to take to actually live up to that which they say they care about. and these are very often the same people who will reblog a post about how "revolutionary" f1nnster is.

I know of plenty of people on tumblr who could participate in mutual aid but don't. this popular tumblr idea that crowdfunding posts are evil or whatever needs to die. it screams of liberalism and a "not my problem" attitude that is actively harmful towards goals of liberation. my complaints are about the performative leftism that I observe a lot on here, and how this culture of performative leftism has chosen f1nnster to uplift as its newest hero. and honestly, I'm more worried about trans poc and multi-marginalized folks who are struggling to get their basic needs met than i am of white and/or class-privileged queer people feeling bad about their escapism site™.

[the-gaping-wound-of-christ]

Not trying to be a negativity hole here abt Finn but like if we wanna very sloppily use streaming metrics as quantitative number data to measure societal acceptance, how many people will tune in and how many people pay for the pleasure of being part of a community, cis guy crossdressing is a lot more socially acceptable and a lot LESS “boundary breaking” and subversive than a trans woman being trans. Really not trying to be a negativity hole about it :( I think what reflexively makes me so pissy is the “people get freaked out that he’s a man that looks like that which is poggers” is that I’ve seen a lot more, personally in my own life, of “dress how you want you’re still a man” than anything else.

first of all this took me a good moment to process because my ocs name is finn and f1nn5ter doesnt have huge presence in my brain

anyway to get to your points; i dont agree with everything in that post nor do i think its perfect. upon rereading it for this ask, i wish i wouldve thought more about rbing it actually (i rly dislike op opening w saying "f1nn makes people more uncomfortable than drag" thats just untrue and weird to say) so i can definitely see why it agitates you in a couple ways. i also dont think what f1nn does is more groundbreaking than being literally trans or that its "poggers" that it freaks some people out. but hes someone with a massive reach online and its cool that hes very normal about the way he presents and challenges a lot of people by just being. personally i just appreciate his effect for what it is. i didnt feel like commenting that in the tags though but yeah that was just what i was thinking

[f1nns1deblog]

screenshots from 6/7/23 stream, posted by u/NeroZashi92

[jan-sopija]

This is something that MUST be part of our popular discourse. F1nn is a man. he identifies himself as a man, uses he/him pronouns, he simply is a man.

i could talk about how cis people are failing to understand his deal, or how he is a challenge to modern gender norms; but id be surprised if theres more than a bakers dozen cis people on this website so i'll take this as a chance to talk about a toxic part of online trans culture, calling any cis person who challenges gender norms an egg

if you don't know, an "egg" is someone in a state of questioning there gender, with the implication that the person is trans and "hasn't realized it yet". this on its own is not necessarily toxic. However, when applied to cis people how merely break gender norms, can fuel reactionary talking points and have a serious and negative on cis people who break gender norms, trans people, and the struggle for queer liberation as a whole.

the first and most obvious problem, you are claiming to know someones gender better than they do. i hope i don't have to explain why this is problematic.

The second problem, it can cause cis people who simply want to present in a non standard way to feel pressured in to identifying as trans, and i hope i dont have to explain to trans people that being pressured to identify and present a certain way is damaging

third, its damaging to trans people as it perpetuates the idea that there is some "correct" way to present a certain gender, and failing to present this way makes your identity as that gender invalid. this is the first point i feel the need to elaborate on. F1nn5ter is a man. F1nn5ter dresses like this:

F1nn5ter (a man) looks like this:

and yet he is a man. this is a man! if this is a man, who's to say that a man has to look any kind of way. who's to say a woman has to look any sort of way. who's to say an NB has to look some way. if F1nn5ter is a man (which he is) there is no restriction on what gender is

there's more to say

i think f1nn5ter makes a lot of people more uncomfortable than drag does because they cant dismiss what he does as ironic and therefore nonthreatening. it isnt a parody of femininity, its legitimately looking like a woman while being fully a man and it scares people.

he represents all the fears cis people have of not being able to tell if somebody is trans, and hes living proof that humans are not nearly as dimorphic as they like to think.

[boyapologist]

Genuine questions here - don't you find it disturbing/alarming that TenMuses has become a major facet of F1nn's community, and has a controlling interest in F1nn and what he does (or doesn't do) through the huge amounts of disposable income he has in ways that pretty much no one else in F1nn's community can compete with? Do you really think that doesn't establish any financial or social pressure on F1nn? And even if Ten has used that power he has so far in benign ways, isn't ingratiating himself to F1nn and the community and entrenching himself deeply based on ridiculously exorbitant gifts and positive reinforcement exactly how grooming starts? I'm not trying to argue that Ten didn't genuinely seem to and has acted wholesome in these streams; I haven't watched them, I'm not more of an expert than someone who has. But the amount of influence he has and where it's coming from (throwing TONS of money at F1nn) is still deeply alarming to me. I don't think it's possible to publicly pay a streamer that kind of money (no matter how well off the streamer already is) in an ethical way, without establishing a relationship of financial and social pressure. And even if F1nn is 100% okay and not pressured and he only lets Ten do what he wants to let Ten do - is F1nn the only streamer Ten is doing this with? Do we know? Is he using his money to financially pressure other streamers who may be a lot more desperate for money and less able to say no than F1nn is? Because this behavior is sketchy even with someone who arguably doesn't need the money and has the luxury to say no, but imagine what Ten could do with that kind of money to other streamers. And it really concerns me that Ten is showing everyone in F1nn's chat that there's a market for this, because even if F1nn isn't being exploited, other streamers trying to imitate him - say, people who desperately need money who see how well F1nn's getting paid - easily could be. (I also saw someone else - someone else DEFENDING Ten - mention how F1nn tried to restrict Ten's donations to a certain amount, and Ten got F1nn to remove the restriction and then 'jokingly' apologize to him. The person stating this played it off like it was just some playful back and forth, but uh??? That reads??? As super fucked up????) Regardless of whether or not F1nn is feeling any pressure, regardless of whether or not Ten is (currently and/or intentionally) doing any harm, isn't this still inherently an incredibly dangerous and exploitative situation, and really questionable behavior? Isn't the implication that F1nn's created a community where someone can make what would be blatant groomer behavior anywhere else, with any other streamer, seem friendly and benign? And is that the same as that behavior actually being friendly and benign? tl;dr - How can you tell a wealthy groomer, under these circumstances, apart from a wealthy patron? Because the financial and social pressure is inherently there; the only debate that can be had is whether or not it's influencing F1nn, and "he seems fine with it" isn't too convincing when, again, the whole point is that there is financial and social pressure for F1nn to BE fine with it. The WHOLE REASON people are worried about this situation is because of how it makes it difficult to distinguish coercion from sincerity in both Ten and F1nn. So how do you resolve that? How can you be confident you can tell the difference? Again - I'm bringing up all these things wholly genuinely.

I'm not going to repeat myself because my long response to that post already answers most of what you brought up in this message, but I'm gonna have to ask you to stop being terminally online for one second and reflect on what you just said.

You can't just call an absolute stranger a groomer because he's giving money to someone who's a full adult. Someone who can and WILL stop Ten if he ever feels uncomfortable with the whole thing. All of this because YOU are imagining living in a world where Ten is this evil, streamer obsessed old man who's just giving people money to pressure them into interacting with him.

All of the concerns you've expressed in this ask are literally things that never happened. You're coming up with reasons to be concerned based solely on scenarios you came up with in your head.

I mean this in the kindest way possible, because I know you're coming from a place of well intention, but please be careful with what you say online.

Stop accusing strangers of very serious things just because YOU think that's the logical next step to giving money to a cute boy online.