#contextually this makes all the replies saying ‘it’s not about homosexuality’ so so much more insufferable

[moonyinpisces]

The relevant passage from the book re. Sodom and Gomorrah:

“Come off it. Your lot get ineffable mercy,” said Crowley sourly.

“Yes? Did you ever visit Gomorrah?”

“Sure,” said the demon. “There was this great little tavern where you could get these terrific fermented date-palm cocktails with nutmeg and crushed lemon-grass–”

“I meant afterwards.”

“Oh.”

-

And then they are silent for some time.

(It was the book passage that made me think of them as two gay men in 1990 and not some great ethereal/occult humanist Cold War metaphor. Having that conversation at the end of the AIDS crisis you know. Pretty gay human man of them.)

.

[discluded]

some people think the new mileapo movie would not be a love story 💀💀💀💀 have they confirmed that it's a love story tho?

*MUFFLES SCREAMS* I wrote the entire reply and it got swallowed by Tumblr. This is the 5th time I've made this mistake because I am a FOOLE (though more likely it's because tumblr's editor sucks). Anyway, here we go again.

Formally, the film's genre is historical. And its working title is #ThaiPeriodMovie while they tease us about the movie title.

However, several things stood out to me in the way this film has been discussed (potential spoilers, but mostly fan theory!)

Here's Apo speaking about how the film came about at Kis x Farger and how Pond contextualized Mile's role in the film. Please note the conjecture is one of the translator's theories, not what was explicitly said. But the part about Mile was what was said 🤗

Pond then came up with the idea that it would be so gorgeous if Apo could perform a Thai dance. Pond also said that Mile has a personality that goes well with Apo* so together they should make a movie that celebrates Thai culture.

[*they may be a couple lead in their movie]

Also, this LGBTQ Thai youtuber was able to identify cultural details in just the short trailer. He starts talking about some of the important details around 6:27 (which I am not retyping again)

Basically, he was able to identify that Apo was performing a Lakhon Nai, which is performed in the royal court and traditionally only had female dancers even for male roles.

However, he noted that because Apo was a male dancer in the royal court, the movie likely takes place in the period of King Rama IV-V, which was most likely validated by BOC's production staff recently!

He also theorized that Apo and Bas were were performing Inao (Punji), which is a Lakhon Nai epic that had queer elements. I can't find a good English source about this epic, so watch the video to learn what he has to say about the story.

He mentioned the possibility that in the movie, there might the duality with a reflection of Apo's character having a stage life in an epic with a queer story while the character's real life is embroiled in a love affair with the handsome Taphon player 😝

Actually, I was rewatching the Leslie Cheung and Hong Kong LGBT Cinema video essay a couple of weeks back and this part really stood out to me as what they might be trying to do with this film.

The film cleverly ties homosexuality to traditional Chinese art, making an, at the time, unfamiliar topic much more approachable to a Chinese audience, allowing the audience to feel the loss, pain, and persecution LGBT people had been feeling.

But its contribution to inclusivity is, perhaps, even more direct than that. The casting of Leslie Cheung in the role creates this feeling that we aren't looking at a fictional character, we are facing the real struggle of Leslie Cheung. Leslie was sympathetic, so his characters, and by extention LGBT people, were sympathetic.

Anyway, this is all speculation! I want to point out again that historical LGBTQ films don't need to have a romantic plot, AND even if a romance between characters occur it's often interwoven with the characters' other struggles and drama/tragedy of the period. Don't expect KPTS episode 8 😭

I'm less bothered by whether or not Mile and Apo's characters will be queer than the fact that so many people are openly dismissing that they can't be queer in the film because it's a historical film (what). As @cookiedoughfiesta mentioned to me, some idiots have said that they can't be gay because it's a historical film and gay people didn't exist then (THE IRONY OF SUFFERING HOMOPHOBES EVERY DAY IN THIS FANDOM 💀💀💀)

[fandom-star]

Writer’s Tag

@its-all-ineffable tagged me to do this, but it’s a long one so I’m doing it in a different post! Thank you very much! I love doing these so much!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many works do you have on AO3?

164 (possibly 165 by the weekend if I post the Witcher one I finished the other day)

What's your total AO3 word count?

181468

What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

It’s Okay (Merlin: Merthur) - 569 Kudos Pulchra (Night At The Museum: Jedtavius) [NSFW] - 286 Kudos A Father’s Wisdom (Merlin: Merthur: Uther-centric) - 270 Kudos Crush (MCU Spider-Man: PeterNed) - 262 Kudos Comfort Blankets For Sleepy Gods (MCU Loki Series: Lokius) - 245

Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

Sometimes. I try to if I’m not in a non-social mood. Mostly, if I start off on my page before reading any fic and see that I have something in my inbox and it turns out to be a comment on my fic, then I’m more likely to reply to it. Idk why it works like that. Otherwise, it’s kinda touch and go whether or not I’ll reply to something, you’ve got a 50/50 chance, but I always read and appreciate every one that I get.

What's the fic you've written with the angstiest ending?

*Looks at my abundance of angst fics* There’s... a surprising amount of angst without happy endings in my repertoire. Um. I’ll give you three that I vividly remember. (All of these are Star Trek and Spones) Written In The Stars - This is one of my really early works, and was gonna have a sequel that made it have a less angsty ending, but I could never get into the rhythm of writing it. I won’t spoil it, but this is probably the only fic I’ve written where Sarek is a straight-up dick. Battlefield - As the title suggests, there’s war with no real context. And major character death. It’s sad. I genuinely made people cry with this. I am both proud and apologetic of that. Unreal - This is probably one of my more complex concepts, and I’m really proud of it. Features ooc Spock with contextual reasons I won’t spoil, defensive/protective McCoy and major character death of a sort.

What's the fic you've written with the happiest ending

This is kind of difficult, bc while I have excessively written angsty endings (see: above answer) I do usually write happy endings, and I can’t remember all 160 fic endings left over, and even then it’s difficult to rank them by happiest. I like Nutcase {Murdoch Mysteries: Watts-centric) a lot, oh and also Blame It On Me (Star Trek Pricard: Hughnor) which is angst with a happy ending (and has amazing art accompanying it). There are many others with happy endings, but like I said I have no idea how to rank them by “happiest”.

Do you write crossovers? If so, What is the craziest one you’ve ever written?

I don’t really, but I have written one as a request that I really really enjoyed. A Good Day is ThorBruce and is set in the DS9 era of Star Trek, in which Thor is a captain and Bruce is his chief science officer. It’s really adorable and features sleepy, over-worked Bruce and a very characteristically happy Thor.

Have you ever received hate on a fic?

No, I don’t think so, unless you count unsolicited advice I felt I couldn’t turn down on ff.net when I was struggling to write Uhura. I’m kind of surprised I haven’t tbh (not that I’m complaining) since I do write for some very popular fandoms and ships (although, conversely, also some very niche fandoms and ships).

Do you write smut? If so what kind?

I write it but have only ever posted it thee, four times if you count the exploratory one I posted under a pseudonym that wasn’t really that smutty. I’m hoping to get the confidence up to post some of what I’ve written tho, bc I do really like hat I’ve managed to do with some of it.

Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not as far as I’m aware.

Have you ever had a fic translated?

Yes, I have! A lovely person found my fic 1967, which is probably one of my favourite Spones fics I’ve written, based around the UK’s decriminalisation (well, partial) of homosexuality, and traslated it into Hungarian here. I’ve not been able to check it out, due to not knowing a thing in the language (tho I could probably ask my friend to) but the translator seemed really lovely, so I trust them to have done a good job.

Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Not something I posted, but before I even started posting fanfic, me and my best friend really randomly started writing a Star Trek TNG x Star Wars crossover whenever they were at my house. We gave up on it after about a year and never wrote much for it, but it was... it was something.

What’s your all-time favourite ship?

This changes all the time with my hyperfixations! One that will always be in my heart is obviously Spones, my og ship and within my special interest. Currently I’m obsessed with The Witcher so I’ve got Geraskier on the mind but who knows when that might change!

What’s a WIP that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will?

In terms of fanfic I don’t really have any that I don’t think I’ll ever finish. I have an original script that I started writing months ago but only got about three scenes into and haven’t touched since bc I don’t actually have a plot for it.

What are your writing strengths?

Dialogue; Is situations one? That sounds like a good and fancy way of saying AUs; Finding synonyms should be one, that’s like half my search history

What are your writing weaknesses?

Description; Despite my talent of finding synonyms I feel like I do repeat words a lot; Planning and outlining, I just don’t do it - it works for me tho.

What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

I’m pretty sure the only times I’ve really done it is for Jedtavius (having Oct speak in Latin occasionally) and I might have done it once or twice with Spock speaking Vulcan, both times it’s mostly terms of endearment or Oct wanting to be romantic. Idk, I don’t really care about reading dialogue in other languages as long as there’s a translation somewhere in the work or I can easily pick it up or search it. Just do whatever, it’s your writing. As long as you do it well and it makes contextual sense, I don’t really care.

What was the first fandom you wrote for?

Unposted: Star Trek: The Next Gen Posted: Sherlock (I actually recently reread my first ever posted fic, it’s a long haul (just over 45k), but if anyone ever wants to see a work where my writing visibly improves lemme know and I’ll email the pdf to you)

What’s your favourite fic you’ve written?

Why would you do this to me??? I love most of my fics!!! I’m just gonna link a few here cause I’ve been doing this for an hour now and it would definitely take me an hour to choose just one! The Relationship Series - modern AU, autistic Spock (written by a self-projecting autistic writer), there’s angst spattered about but is especially prominent in part 6, I just really love this series Promises You Can’t Keep - Loki spoilers, I love this bc it’s based on “what if my finale theory was right instead of being debunked three minutes into the episode”, definitely angst with a hopeful ending I love all of my Charite At War fics, but I’m gonna link my 20 years post-canon fic Grow Old With Me and my modern AU You Give Me Your Light - both have some heavy topics (post-canon is set in 1960s East Germany, modern AU topics are tagged) but I adore both with my entire heart You’ll Never Burn - Merlin/Merthur, again kinda heavy (not as heavy as the Charite ones in my opinion) but short and everything is tagged I love all of my Babylon 5 fics but Secret Rendezvous will always have a special place in my heart. It’s very sweet and essentially follows Vir and Lennier trying to navigate coming out about their relationship to their ambassadors I also recommend all the of the fics I’ve already linked in the post ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now for the hard part - tagging!

@esperata @tallysgreatestfan @iwritesometimes @marlinspirkhall and any other writer mutuals I’ve likely forgotten but I’ve already spent WAY too long writing this post asfdhdskjdgha So I apologise, but if you wanna do it, absolutely go for it, this was so much fun and really made me realise how much I’ve achieved in 4.5 years.

[passionate-reply]

This week on Great Albums: we are FINALLY talking about the Pet Shop Boys! They’ve only been my favourite band since I was, like, eight. Whether you want to understand the hype or you’re already Team PSB, come check out this video and hear all about 1990′s Behaviour. (Or read the transcript, below the break.)

Welcome to Passionate Reply, and welcome to Great Albums! It’s time for me to finally do a video on one of my favourite bands of all time, and the very first band I obsessed over when I was a kid: the Pet Shop Boys! Their fourth LP, 1990’s Behaviour, is considered by many to be their best work, and it’s also one of my personal favourites of theirs, so it seems like a great place to start.

The preceding Pet Shop Boys LP, 1988’s Introspective, was their deepest dive into densely-arranged, nightclub-ready post-disco compositions. Nowadays, people tend to praise it for its more experimental and baroque qualities, but it’s also very much a party album, blending synth-pop with house and rave influences.

Music: “Domino Dancing”

At the cusp of the 1990s, there was certainly no shortage of interest in upbeat, rave-y party music, and the so-called “Madchester” scene was in full swing. But the Pet Shop Boys’ follow-up to Introspective would take their sound in a different direction. They went to Germany to work with Harold Faltermeyer, best known for his instrumental synth smash “Axel F.” There, surrounded by Faltermeyer’s collection of analogue synthesisers, they would create an album that was...well, kind of a downer.

Music: “Being Boring”

Behaviour’s opener, “Being Boring,” is a track whose reputation probably precedes it--it’s one of the best known Pet Shop Boys songs, and over the last thirty years, it’s become emblematic of its era. “Being Boring” is a stark and pensive reflection on the tragedy of the young lives lost to the AIDS epidemic, and the uncanny strangeness of getting older while knowing a lot of others didn’t have that luxury. But at the same time, there’s something surprisingly jubilant and triumphant about the way that chorus rises up, almost like exultation at having survived, even though the verses feel more downbeat. Lyrically, the focus on “having never been boring” puts focus on having lived a vibrant life moreso than it does the silence of the crypt. Behaviour might be a somber album, but it’s not without a sense of hope or optimism; just listen to the track “The End of the World.”

Music: “The End of the World”

While “Being Boring” deals with the very adult gravity of death, grief, and survivorship, “The End of the World” asks us to imagine the petty romantic squabblings of teenagers, and their magnified sense of importance. While its title is a bit ambiguous, the song itself is quite clear: what is going on here is, by no means, the end of the world! Like I said, Behaviour is far from all doom and gloom, though it has sort of gotten that reputation. While acclaim for Behaviour is certainly as common among hardcore Pet Shop Boys fans as it is anyone else, I’m tempted to think that some of the praise it receives from relative outsiders is connected to this perception of it as the “serious” Pet Shop Boys album, that deals with real issues instead of being packed with fun pop songs. While I like gloomy, serious music as much as anybody, and personally prefer it to the more light-hearted releases, there’s no reason to predicate appreciation for the Pet Shop Boys on their being cerebral or high-minded. But that seems to be a common plague of a lot of music criticism, particularly of that rockist sort. The track “How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?” serves as its own sort of commentary on rock culture.

Music: “How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?”

In “How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?”, the titular question is posed to rock stars whose inflated egos make them think they have something meaningful to say about big issues like politics. The song’s rougher soundscape stands out against dreamier tracks like “Being Boring,” and perhaps kicks it slightly closer to sounding like a rock song. While I can certainly get behind a song that mocks rock and roll self-righteousness, it does seem a bit ironic in the context of Behaviour, an album that would see the Pet Shop Boys making a clear effort to tackle meaty, real-world issues. I suppose that any album released by artists who were already established in their career might be expected to include some consideration for the dilemmas that come with that territory. Another track that explores this theme is “My October Symphony.”

Music: “My October Symphony”

While never released as a single, “My October Symphony” is a popular track nonetheless. It was inspired by the life of the great Russian composer, Dmitri Shostakovich, and portrays the grave uncertainties presented to the artist by the collapse of Communism, and with it, the prevailing sense of mythology and moral values. Given the themes involved, many have interpreted it as a track that obliquely questions where famous queer artists like the Pet Shop Boys were going, in a world that had been devastated by AIDS. While it’s about a very different kind of musician, I certainly like to think it’s a track that “rhymes” with “How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?”, in that it also questions the relationship between artists and the values of the society around them.

Behaviour’s cover art recalls that of the Pet Shop Boys’ 1986 debut, Please, with a strong emphasis on empty, white space, and a small design in the center. While the relationship of its four panels is ambiguous, it could be interpreted as a representation of death--as a face turns away, the human figures disappear, leaving the still, unchanged inanimate objects behind. As children, we quickly learn that not being able to see something doesn’t mean the thing is truly gone, but nevertheless, we sometimes have a tendency to ignore things we wish would go away. Perhaps the cover of Behaviour is an allusion to the way world governments buried their heads in the sand, so to speak, regarding the AIDS crisis, hoping it would conveniently die down and vanish when it wasn’t being observed.

The title of “Behaviour” is perhaps even more mysterious and up to interpretation than the cover. There’s something very detached and clinical about that word--an impersonal ambiance. I’m reminded of the seemingly unsympathetic narrators of several tracks, such as “The End of the World” and “How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?”, that seem to cast judgment on the actions of others without taking an interest in their emotional internality. They discuss “behaviours” as cut and dry phenomena, and focus on the actions that people take. While neutrality can be cold and condemnatory, it can also be a welcome change when introduced to a subject traditionally treated with hostility. In that light, I’m tempted to think of the title as referring to homosexual “behaviour,” contextualizing sexuality as less of a fixed identity, and something that one intrinsically “is,” and more about an action, a decision, something that one “does”--a mentality that a lot of people find rather liberating.

In introducing Behaviour, I described it as an album that’s often considered the Pet Shop Boys’ best work. But their 1993 followup to it, Very, is also a strong contender for that title, in the hearts of many of their biggest fans. *Very* has a lot more in common with *Introspective* than it does Behaviour, going back to rich, dense productions and upbeat, poppy love songs. The fact that the Pet Shop Boys managed to pull off two very different, but both very acclaimed, releases back to back speaks volumes about why people love them as much as they do. Whether you like them or not, they’re undoubtedly one of those artists who some people can turn to in just about any mood, or any season of life, and that’s a powerful thing.

Music: “I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind of Thing”

My favourite track on Behaviour is its lead single, “So Hard.” It’s one of my all-time favourite Pet Shop Boys tracks, and almost certainly my favourite of their singles. With its wryly bitter narrative of two-timing lovers, and harsh, clattering analogue synthesiser soundscape, “So Hard” has a pretty different feel to the rest of the album--dark and ominous, without that wistful, sentimental aura. But that’s exactly why I like it. The Pet Shop Boys were among the first artists to deliberately adopt analogue synths for the subjective qualities of their sound, and this track employs them in a way that’s reminiscent of what artists tend to do with them nowadays. It’s punchy, with that clunky, mechanistic analogue quality to it. Not a typical Pet Shop Boys song, but a damn good one nonetheless! That’s all I’ve got for today, thanks for listening.

Outro: “So Hard”

[thecoldestoftakes]

@aregularboy​ said: @thecoldestoftakes​ i feel like we are largely on the same page. your language is a bit more precise than mine, but yeah my discomfort is with people thinking deeply about the degree to with children are interested in sex.

I hope you don’t mind that I’m pulling this out of the replies.  I’d rather keep my main out of this (since you’re the one with the followers and this particular sort of discourse tends to get nasty) and I can’t post a reply as a sideblog.  I also have a lot to say.

The problem I had with your post was that you accredited this discomfort to the ace headcanons, when ace headcanons themselves are not the issue here.  Headcanoning a character as asexual has the same implications in terms of “thinking about the degree to which children are interested in sex” as headcanoning the character as homosexual would, which is none at all.

You said it yourself, actually, you said: “like if i hc X character as gay im not saying anything about their sex life at all! even going through the process of contextualizing that hc does not necessitate me ever having to consider their interest in sex.”  So you agree with me that headcanons about an individual’s sexuality are not inherently about their interest in sex.  It’s about attraction.

You said in your post “the thing about ace hcs that i think sets it apart from LGBT hcs is that its explicitly, inherently about sex and how much or little interest you have in it” and “ace identity is entirely different - it DOES necessitate consideration of interest in sex because that’s literally what its about” which is blatantly incorrect and misinformation -- misinformation that I debunked and clarified in my response.

Some grown ass person coming out and saying some shit like “This underage character is sex-neutral and doesn’t really desire sex but wouldn’t be against it :)” sure, that’s hecking dicey.  That’s really hecking dicey!!  That’s some thin ice there!

But saying “I hc this underage character as ace” is not the same thing and your language and rhetoric conflated the two in a manner that in itself is problematic.

I hope I’m making sense and getting my point across, because where we were not on the same page is what my response was about.  Because we were not saying the same thing at all.

I agree that adults (specifically adults -- underage fans contextualizing their own experiences through underaged characters is not problematic and should not be viewed with the same lens, as people don’t just magically become interested in sex when they come of age) thinking about underage characters in a sexual manner is dicey and certainly a reason to be uncomfortable.  Where I vehemently and passionately disagree is that an ace headcanon has anything to do with that sort of thinking.

Saying a character is heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, pansexual -- none of these labels have anything to do with an interest in sex.  This is a presence or lack of presence of an attraction. Asexuality is not other.  It is not separate.  There is no separation.

Someone saying that they don’t believe a character experiences any attraction is THE SAME THING as someone saying they believe a character is attracted to people of the same gender or that the character is attracted to people of genders that are the same and different from theirs.

Because your point did not read at all as “people thinking about a child’s interest in sex makes me uncomfortable”, the point of your post, as you had written it, was “people hc’ing a child as ace means they’re thinking about kids having sex” which is incorrect.

I did not respond to agree with you.  That was not the purpose of my post.  I wanted to correct the misconceptions about asexuality.  I also wanted to keep it civil.