#byler bad timing trope

[gayofthefae]

Season 2 was a purposefully and fully romantic season for Mike and Will and they're gonna come back to it.

El's death changes everything. El's death is a crazy situation to be in. El's death is an amazing setup.

Mike made a promise to a girl. Then she died. Then he fell for someone else. And they had something, unspoken. He spoke it, just a little bit. Then, after a year, hours later, she came back.

That is a CLASSIC bad timing trope.

Ex you thought was gone for good comes back and holds you to something is TEXTBOOK and ALWAYS juicy. But most importantly, as a trope, it's pre-existing.

That is what season 2 is for.

Mike and Will aren't just in love. They aren't just miscommunicating. They didn't just self sabotage. They didn't just miss each other by a little bit because they didn't know. They were INTERRUPTED.

"While you were gone I developed feelings for someone else because I thought you were gone forever but then you came back and I was happy you were back but now I don't know what do" IS a trope. And a JUICY one at that.

They aren't retconning anything. They're pointing it out. They wrote a specific romantic trope by the book already. You just don't know that that's what it was because you don't know that's how he was feeling about it.

But that's the thing. All that's left is the feelings. People think Byler would be forced because they don't notice that the romantic tropes we define every other romance by are already present and it's not just a made up "now kiss" out of nowhere. People define consistency and planning and arcs by these tropes. Byler HAS them. Distinct and specific ones. The situations are there. They just need to be informed of the feelings.

Just like friends to lovers is only friends to lovers when they become lovers. And miscommunication is only miscommunication once they act on the assumption. Tropes aren't always visible until they manifest. But the situation is there. All the actions have been committed. All the pieces are in place.

Mike dated El then didn't. Then she came back. All they need to is say "something happened" in between. You'll believe them. The same way when he couldn't say he loved her we all went "wait a minute, oh shit...he didn't say it in season 3, did he?", we will all go "oh shit, they separated Mike and El for a reason"

When it came out, I always just assumed the separation in season 2 was to try and extend the interest, and I forgave them for it. I still believed that until my realization tonight. I knew it was to give screentime for Mike and Will but I never truly connected the dots. It wasn't just setup and hints. It wasn't just getting people on board with their dynamic. Something was actually there. Something almost HAPPENED.

The thing about this trope is...it's about momentum being cut off. They had momentum. In season 2,...they were going somewhere.

[mikesbasementbeets]

[gayofthefae]

TO TRY AND REACH YOUR BEST FRIEND WHO NEVER PICKS UP???????????????

This may be a stretch and I don't know much about the game, but I am also reading into "The event is accessible for players who have competed Chapter Two, Mission One" and how Mike's playlist implies his feelings start at the beginning of season 2.

You are eligible to be considered a "lost connection" after you've finished 2x01.

My immediate thought before reading was also that to our knowledge, grandpa sweater short haired Mike is season 5 Mike, so one could argue this is not just a depiction of 13 year old Mike...

📣📣 PUZZLE TALES NEW CHARA DROP

It's GRANDPA SWEATER MIKE WHEELER!!!

Very amazing and we love to see the throwback! It's nice to see Mike in his element again (blue) and solving problems. Plus, his in-game descriptor is "Codebreaker," a reminder that Mike Wheeler is indeed the dude that puts the puzzle pieces together. Indeed, he has not one but two abilities related to patterns.

(family ties, eh? 👀)

But here is how I know they are throwing treats to hungry Bylers specifically:

The event is called Lost Connection, and JUST LOOK at how they describe it:

HELLO???!?!?!?!

This is soooooo a nod to Mike calling Will in Lenora.

The truth is going to come out eventually!!!

Also, it's really cute that they have now released both Mike and Will from the Miwi season. Spy and Codebreaker 💛💙

[bylerworld]

the interruption trope haunts him 😭 mike wheeler canonically suffers from the bad timing disease please he's doomed

and these are not the only moments where this happens please 😭 i saw the mileven bts and was like but i have seen this exact scene before? boom it was a byler scene.

[therainscene]

It’s funny that Bylers are so often accused of being delusional, because I was at my most delusional when I was anti-Byler.

I spent most of S4 refusing to acknowledge that Will had romantic feelings for Mike, despite knowing damn well what all that love triangle imagery and sad gay pining was implying. I convinced myself it was just bros before hoes drama; that perhaps Will wanted to come out to his best friend but felt nervous after six months of radio silence following “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”

The van scene forced me to accept that he really was in love, and it pissed me off because what was even the point of making him fall for a straight boy?

Mike’s bizarre “no homo” behaviour was clearly a symptom of growing up in a conservative 80s household, and witnessing Will’s sacrificial act of love in the van was the shitty lesson he needed to get over his homophobia.

I saw a typical straight male protagonist in an 80s coming-of-age film getting to coast his way to self-actualization on the back of queer suffering; a cruel and homophobic trope I thought we’d moved past by the year 2022.

But then the NINA reunion scene rolled around--

--and I immediately picked up on the heavy parallels between Mike and Will in how they greeted El. The realization hit me like a tonne of bricks: Mike feels the same way about her as Will does.

I thought, “wait, does this mean I was wrong about...? Oh my god. No way.

No fucking way.

Will was in love with El this whole time?? What the fuck, he’s been gay since S1 and she’s his sister this is BULLSHIT I will personally strangle the Duffers--”

Heteronormativity is a hell of a drug, kids.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who think media illiteracy is to blame for Byler denial -- how well someone understands the mechanics of storytelling is irrelevant if they insist on treating Mike’s supposed heterosexuality as an axiom instead of an evidence-based conclusion. The issue lies with bias, not literacy.

I was stubbornly anti-Byler because I knew I’d immediately fall in love with this ship if I allowed myself to have hope it could be canon, and the general state of queer rep in mainstream media meant I was all but guaranteed to get hurt if I was so stupid as to have hope. But in my desperation to cling to the “safe” heteronormative outcome, I only ended up hurting myself with my own silly assumptions.

We’ve seen both canonically gay characters in the show make exactly this mistake, needlessly hurting themselves with their silly but self-defensive assumptions about their love interests.

Stranger Things absolutely nails its depiction of the subtler ways internalized homophobia can manifest -- Will may feel like a mistake and be prone to beating himself up, but he isn’t some pitiful self-loathing queer who wishes he was straight, either. He’s just so crushed by heteronormativity that he accepts it as an inescapable fact of life and lets it guide his beliefs and actions.

Don’t get me wrong: Will, like Robin, is very sensible for being cautious in such a horrifically bigoted environment -- trying to openly defy that level of homophobia by yourself, especially when you’re young, is a bad idea.

But unlike Robin, he clearly struggles to accept that he has the right to chase his same-sex love interest. He's no longer simply exercising caution, but conforming to homophobic standards -- much in the same way I thought I was sensibly refusing to be queerbaited, when really I was just agreeing with the heteronormative status quo.

I realize now that this is the real reason Will was written into a homophobic 80s trope: not to teach Mike an outdated lesson in acceptance, but to maneuver Will into position for the lesson he’s going to learn in S5 about resisting conformity.

Will needs to learn that castrating himself to make straight people comfortable is a bad idea too. Not only is that a miserable way to live his life, but what sort of world is he leaving for the next generation of queer kids if he never questions these homophobic standards?

It’s just the cycle of abuse scaled up to the societal level.

This is what gives me confidence in Byler endgame. Queerness isn’t just an incidental element of Will’s personal arc, but suffuses the show to its very core -- it’s in its themes, its allegory, its characters.

So Will getting the boy isn’t just nice fan-service for Byler shippers, but a necessary ending if the show’s most important lesson is to land:

That it’s rewarding to make the difficult choice of standing up to bigotry in the face of forced conformity. Of choosing love.

Could it be the case that I was right the first time, and Stranger Things is going to turn out to be yet another heteronormative mainstream show that doesn’t commit to its own themes? Sure, maybe. But that wouldn’t invalidate the valuable lessons this show has already -- and apparently accidentally lol -- taught me.

Anyone who calls us deluded for hoping a mainstream show is going to have a gay pairing as its main couple just doesn’t realize -- or doesn’t care -- that they’re contributing to the very problem they’re describing.

[givehimthemedicine]

lumax as a premature relationship

first: I don't mean any of this like "the show shouldn't have done it". what I mean is that with lumax, ST is telling the story of a relationship whose flaw (if it can be summarized into just one) is that it happened too soon.

probably out of comparison to milkvan, and the delay of canon byler, lumax gets lauded as the wholesome ship based on true friendship that slowly blossomed into romance. but that's not accurate. Lucas is a good friend to Max, but Max isn't to Lucas, and it certainly wasn't slow.

even platonic lumax should've been a slow simmer but was a speed run

the newly-introduced Max has high walls, which suggests anyone who wants to get close to her will have to take a slow approach. but then before you know it, Lucas is just kinda. in there.

yes, it takes him most of the season to earn Max's trust, which sounds long, but isn't. the first time Lucas and Max ever spoke was Halloween, Wednesday. the arcade I think is Saturday, and the junkyard is the day after that? so she broaches the darkest subject in her life... 4 days after meeting him. with like. zero prompting. "that fog looks cool! btw my parents are divorced and..."

Max's walls are only so high because of how badly she wants to let someone in, so it's understandable that the right person could get in relatively fast. I have no problem with that trope. sucker, in fact. but opening up here was CRAZY for someone with huge trust issues:

you have to be careful who you confide in about abuse because if your confidant mishandles it so that your abuser finds out you told, things could get MUCH worse. she simply doesn't know Lucas well enough to know he won't accidentally put her in more danger (which actually he already did: by following her out of the arcade after she said not to, and again by showing up at her house).

this talk was moments before Max saw a demodog, meaning she's gone along with the supernatural story without any evidence. I'm not criticizing that; she's a kid who likes fantasy, wants friends really bad, and isn't above playing make-believe in order to be included. what bothers me is she confided in Lucas about her abuse BEFORE seeing a shred of proof this entire outing wasn't the elaborate prank she feared it was. in the infinitely more realistic scenario that these boys are just messing with her, and will ditch her after they've had their laugh, this could so easily have led to a much darker situation at home.

the timing of that conversation was so objectively, stupidly unsafe that I'd call it bad writing if it was an isolated incident. but, self-preservation instincts so terrible they can sometimes be better explained as elf-sabotage - that's just classic Max.

romantic lumax seemed kind of forced because as a new kid in town, all Max wanted was friendship

the snow ball is about a month after everything else. Max and Lucas don't seem to be a couple yet. it doesn't even look like they're dates. so to kiss him suddenly felt like another jump way ahead. he sure looked surprised.

I guess a month is a while when you're 13, but the romantic aspect felt rushed to me because the whole season is full of indications that Max only wanted friendship. and that's made super clear by her constant focus on group friendship. her dialogue throughout 2 is consistently group-oriented.

her behavior is too: as of Halloween, Max has Lucas and Dustin in her pocket. if she's crushing on Lucas, or enjoys attention from boys in general, why on earth would she go out on such a limb seeking Mike's acceptance after she already has what she wants?

because that's not what she wants most. she wants to belong to the whole group, like she keeps saying. (I'm going to ramble much more about this theme in another post soon)

Max continues to prioritize friendship / group activities even after lumax becomes a thing

a few examples:

lumax's idea of "romantic time" can include their friends, in contrast to milkvan prioritizing alone time.

Max (and Lucas) drop 1 on 1 time (washing out his eyes is a scene that's an easy kiss opportunity for your standard tv teen couple) in favor of a long trek in the sun to build a radio tower so Dustin can talk to a girl she doesn't believe exists. Max and Lucas do skip off together, but again in contrast to El and Mike who leave early to make out, they only leave because it's time to go home.

^that's the same Max who tagged along and earnestly participated in armoring up a junked schoolbus to fight monsters without any proof.

despite downsizing for trailer living, she kept the Michael Myers mask in memory of the first night she felt like a part of the party.

unlike others who yell for their loved one from the UD, Max calls out for Lucas and Dustin.

her life-saving montage includes many platonic as well as romantic moments.

alright killjoy, if Max only wanted friendship, how's it make sense that SHE initiated all the romantic stuff?

ST is not a universe where grabbing someone's hand in a tense moment is necessarily an indicator of romance. Dustin said he could feel "the electricity" when Lucas and Max held hands on the bus, but then, Dustin also ships stobin.

the kiss, I could actually come closest to calling a writing misstep because.. it wasn't written. it feels forced because it was, as a last-minute unscripted thing - not because the Duffers decided it fit Max's characterization, but purely because they thought it was funny how uncomfortable Sadie was with filming her first kiss. <- this interview is actually so gross.

but, that kiss is canon regardless of how I feel about bts lore, and it fits and it works in the sense that this is the story of a flawed relationship. Max initiated it despite not being ready for it, simply because she thought she was.

Max's childhood fears about bad relationships have made her overeager to prove a good relationship can exist. so the first time a boy is actually kind to her, she's like OH SEE LOVE IS REAL I DONT HAVE TO GROW UP TO BE MY MOM LET'S GOOOO and hurls herself into something she's not mature enough to realize she's too immature to execute well.

if that kiss was so misguided, how's it still Max's happiest memory?

there's no conflict there.

she grew up around terrible relationships and probably feared she was destined for the same, so to find a nice boy like Lucas must have given her such incredible relief and hope. in her young mind, that dance was her happily ever after. you never forget how good a moment like that felt, regardless of how well reality lived up to it.

that said. can I point out that reality hasn't lived up to it?

Max choosing the moment lumax began, as opposed to any moment from the year-and-change of its actual contents... might be less good the more you think about it. like. she doesn't describe this as her favorite memory. she says it's the time she was happiest. in other words, she hasn't been as happy before or since.

that kiss marked lumax's moment of greatest potential, which I think is what made Max so happy. not the relationship she's actually gotten so far.

mmkay and then what do I do about the fact Max STILL wants to date Lucas?

once again, Max is the one who makes things overtly romantic by doodling a picture of them holding hands. but as you may know from my recent lumax diatribe, I don't see how the ship is seaworthy at present.

so the top layer of my interpretation is that Max is still operating under the same ideas that caused her to kiss Lucas in the first place. she's not thinking about how it'll work; she just wants. this is fast-forward Max again. it's a similar moment of hope to the snow ball kiss. romance with Lucas once again looks like her lifeline out of an awful situation.

the layer underneath that is less fluffy:

Max might've accepted this invite in as much an "I might die tonight so it won't hurt to make some lighthearted plans for the future, he did just save my life so why hurt his feelings for no reason" way as anything else. I don't mean her affection is fake. she just might consider the movie date a pipe dream.

consider that her attic monologue happens only a couple minutes after the doodle, and shows that her suicidal ideations are barely behind her. like, the wanting-to-die part is just bait at this point I think, but the deserving-to-die sentiment still feels fresh and sincere.

consider that Max so recently scolded Lucas for assuring her things would work out because that's "never true" in her life... and now here she is drawing a doodle of things working out.

sure, this could be a girl who's thinking "yes!!! ✅ Attending Event! I genuinely expect to be alive, deserving of love, and in the mood for romance this Friday!" but to me, it honestly seems more like a girl thinking "God, I wish."

btw the doodle would've been perfect as the advent of romantic lumax, imo

if lumax had grown slowly out of a healthy mutual friendship, Max really could be ready right here.

imagine: s2, Max earns her place in the party, but to grow especially close friends with Lucas takes a year; the bus talk happens in s3. we can tell their friendship is starting to want to become more. depression interferes in s4. but their bond helps pierce the fog, and they protect each other from Vecna/Jason.

you hit me with the movie doodle after THAT buildup? adorable, precious, showstopping. at that point, that date could've been their happily ever after. <- this is what people think it is already!

lumax is one of many flawed relationships (and that's okay)

another sign that lumax is supposed to be flawed is its place in the larger pattern of flawed relationships: parallels with other characters and ships.

Max and El in particular share a similar stumble into their relationships: both bond with the first boy to treat them with kindness, and throw themselves into a relationship that actually costs them the friendship they should've had with that boy.

and all the party relationships illustrate different friendship/romance progressions:

lumax is the story of a romance that should've been a friendship first/also and isn't going to succeed til it gets this right

byler will be the story of a romance that was a friendship first and will succeed by remaining one also (or so the themes and patterns suggest)

mileven is the story of a romance that should've been a friendship instead.

literally all of ST's relationships, including the endgame romances, have flaws that are intentional and meant to be explored. in fact that's like... most of what the show is. and most fans can readily admit that about all of them, until they get to lumax, which they think is uniquely meant to be perfect and is flawed only in its writing. this view strips lumax from its broader context and ignores many lessons it's there to teach us about ST's overarching themes.

understand: my aim in pointing out lumax's flaws is not to persuade anyone to enjoy it less or stop shipping it!

flaws don't mean you aren't allowed to like a thing. if anything, it makes them way more interesting to discuss, and more compelling to root for/against. we don't have to pretend our characters are perfect in order to enjoy, ship, and learn from them.

more on all this coming soon in another post exploring different types of love in the Max plot!

[livsmessydoodles]

thinking about this scene today

this scene alone convinces me that byler is endgame bc you cannot make will actively say that hes not gonna fall in love and then write a whole plotline abt him being in love with mike.... just for it to not be reciprocated???

will is the only party member who's completely unexperienced with romantic relationships, which of course has to do with the fact that he's gay in the 80's, but this is a TV show. all of this is fictional so they can take whatever route they want with these characters, and making will continue to stay alone and suffer through unrequited love would be awful storytelling, especially when people claim that will moving on from his feelings would bring character development and growth.

wills feelings for mike arent there just to "show his growth". weve seen this kid go through hell and back yet even with everything kicking him down he stays strong and kind. hes the most selfless character in the show and always puts others needs before his own. in s4, they put a lot of emphasis in these character traits of his, and they're always picturing his love for mike as something selfless and pure.

now if his feelings are not reciprocated, how does this teach will a lesson that leads to character growth?? he already doesn't expect anything. life has shown him time and time again that he always gets the short end of the stick, why would he think this is any different?? making him have feelings for his best friend just to get rejected would just be a nail in the coffin, reaffirming to him that no matter what hes not worthy of ever getting what he wishes. this isnt character growth at all.

but if his feelings ARE requited, that gives us a twist to the story we havent seen. we would get to see actual growth for will, him learning to give himself value and realize that he DOES deserve happiness!! instead of leading into the expected spiral of bad things keeping up the consistency with everything else that has happened to will so far, finally giving him one good thing leads to us seeing a shift in his whole nature, and wed see him dealing with things he hasnt dealt with before!!! GROWTH!!!

besides why would they make such an intricate complicated storyline.... just to lead to a rejection we all saw coming? the GA expects him to get rejected. his feelings not being reciprocated would not be any surprise. but twisting those expectations in a way to shock the GA AND give wills character the happiness he so deserves after being through so much..... now THAT would be world shattering and a satisfying ending to both the viewers and will himself!!

this scene establishes a clear subversion trope, making us aware of how will believes he's never finding love, just for the show to later on subvert expectations and reward will with the love he deserves and never thought hed get🫶

[glisten-inthedark]

I think the most exciting thing about Byler for s5 is that by episode 1 any Byler doubts for Byler fans should be assuaged

The moment Mike shows romantic interest in Will, we know.

I truly believe that the Duffer Bros will not kill either of them off. For one thing, they are well aware that that will be the bury your gays trope and will look and be extremely bad. Especially if they were to reveal Mike as having feelings for Will and then kill him off, that would be extremely egregious. Then they’ve said that s5 is a Will-centric season, that the show is going to come full circle, we know Noah cried during the final episode table reading and both David and Charlie framed it as a heartwarming thing not as a sad thing when talking about it so I think it bodes very well. Also, like I think you’ve said (?) Hopper’s speech in s4 about everyone he loves gets hurt essentially gives the Byers + El plot armor, because any of them dying now after that would be like confirmation of this in Hopper’s eyes and potentially push him away from the Byers “for their safety” and make him feel like he’s the black hole in their lives.

So, the second that we see Mike harboring feelings for Will or pining after him or any 👀👀👀 interaction where Mike is being weird, or flirty, or suspiciously shy, or flustered, or any obvious or even fairly subtle but notable instance of him behaving like he’s pining after Will,

We know. Byler doubters out there, we’ll know! And I’m so excited for that moment to happen!

[additional staving off the Byler Doubt note]

It would also be incredibly stupid and make absolutely no sense if they were to reveal Mike as having feelings for Will, and then pair both of them with some random person or put Mike back with Eleven after making it clear that he does actually have feelings for Will. Like them deciding to stay friends or Will going “actually never mind I moved on you and even though you, my best friend, and the previous love of my life are now confessing to me or pining after me, I’m going to set all my sights on this new random dude”

The moment we see Mike pine for Will in s5 it’s all over

Hello!

Ok, Tumblr has something against me because I spent like 5 minutes writing a response and this little shit just refreshed and I lost the entire thing.

Firstly, oh yes! The moment we see Mike pining for Will, it'll all be over. I understand some people might be concerned over logistics or timing or the love speech or how people might perceive the time and all of that, but I know the writers can use so many things to their advantage to show that the story was always meant to be this one.

Truthfully, I can't imagine a world where they'd kill either of them, not only because they know about the bury your gays trope, but because of how deeply they made Will feel towards Mike - which is also why I can't conceive them giving him some random dude to fall for when they could have done this last season and it'd be much more feasible -.

Because at its core, Stranger Things is and always will be a love letter for all of those who were outcasts, for those who were treated differently for things outside of their control - whether it was their race, their gender, their appearance, or their sexuality -. And we know what some people claim, what they say about being in the 80's and blablabla.

But imagine the message it'd send: "You know that boy who believed he'd never fall in love? Well, he was wrong. And you know that boy who thought he was a mistake? He is wrong - he is not a mistake for liking other boys -. And you know that boy who tore his heart out because he didn't believe he could ever be loved back? He was also wrong, he was loved back. He is loved back. You know that boy that didn't think he'd get a happy ending? He was wrong, he has it now".

This isn't just a message for those who grew up in the 80's, is a message for general audiences and for anyone else who tries to tell LGTBQP+ children and teenagers that happy endings aren't meant for them.

I could go on and on about how the UD might signify the Shadow (Jung) or even ourselves as a society about how the monsters besides representing puppetry are representations of things within ourselves we refuse to touch on but that's another story for another post lmao.

My point is, that killing either of them would just further solidify things that I truly feel they are trying not to cement in their own show.

And the crazy thing about the whole "another random love interest" is that it makes no sense with the story even they set up. From the scripts, is safe to assume Will has had feelings for Mike since he was at least 13 years old (probably even before then), and we don't even have to look at the scripts to know that. We can assume so due to how far he was willing to go to make Mike happy.

I was talking to my friend about it and I realized that the van scene is Will's "Little Mermaid" moment. To clarify: Little Mermaid was written by Hans Christian Andersen and was supposedly meant as an allegory for the feelings he harbored for another man who by that point was married to another woman. Is Will sacrificing his own voice, his own fin, and his own feelings - turning into sea foam - just so that Mike could be happy.

I said it before and I feel like a broken record for reinstating it, but the writers themselves made it clear that Will truly loves Mike. Is not an infatuation, is not a crush, is not limerence, it is unconditional love. He said it himself, that he'd always need Mike aka he'd always love him. He was willing to sacrifice himself and his feelings for him - and sure, we could argue that he could stand to learn to be a little bit more selfish - but the essence of what makes love true is that it isn't selfish, is that is willing to let the other go.

So presenting someone else - especially when they could have done that already and not have Will be this deeply in love with someone he feels he can't have - would be so shallow and frankly stupid after everything they have set up.

I always joke that if Byler is queerbaiting, is the stupidest case I've ever seen because why would they put so much detail, thought, care passion, into it if it'll amount to Mike going right back to where he was before and for Will to end up with someone he can't love as much as he already loves Mike. How is that fair to him?

Anyway, I get passionate about this - as if you couldn't tell already lmao - so I'm sorry if I got sidetracked.

I hope you have a great day and (:

[conflictofthemind]

Byler and the ‘Right There All Along’ / ‘Overlooked Love Interest’ Trope

One of the biggest criticisms from anyone who’s not on the Byler train is that a Byler endgame would ‘come out of nowhere’ and be completely illogical. I’ve seen a lot of people argue that it would be bad writing and since Mike hasn’t shown any (immediately obvious and textual) romantic interest in Will, it’s unbelievable that he would ever be interested in him.

Except that like. This is a romance trope. A very common one even found in classic novels. Maybe even an amalgamation of a few. Jane Austen the mother of romance even wrote about it multiple times; in Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth doesn’t fall in love with Mr. Darcy until after he confesses / proposes and she rejects him. In Mansfield Park, Edmund is completely oblivious to the protagonist’s feelings for him and doesn’t fall for her until the very end of the novel. In Emma, the protagonist realizes her feelings for her family friend Mr. Knightley (who she also thinks loves somebody else) in the final act of the novel as well. These are classic, critically acclaimed and academically studied novels.

It’s also a very common trope in combination with Childhood Friends, because the positioning of someone as a close friend for years makes it harder to consider a change in the dynamic unless it’s presented very obviously to you.

The “Love Revelation Epiphany’, which is incredibly similar, is where a character doesn’t develop or realize feelings until they find out that the other character is interested in them. It’s usually played to be tragically unrequited until this particular twist is revealed. In my opinion, this is one of the most likely ways Byler will come to fruition.

The only reason that this seems out of left field while countless other stories have played with similar tropes is 1) homophobia (a lot of the audience never allowed themselves to consider even the possibility of Mike reciprocating) and 2) the fact that Stranger Things has been dragged out for much longer than any kind of movie or book, and most shows. People have simply gotten used to the current status quo.

Looking at story crafting and writing theory points so heavily towards Byler. I’m going to make a follow up to this post, likely tomorrow, explaining why in a character development and story sense it necessitates Will being ‘greedy’, and fighting for and getting what he desires.

[spicybylerpolls]

All of the teenage relationships are sexualised from the get-go. Stancy's introduction was all about the trope where bad boy Steve just wants to try getting good girl Nancy into bed. Jancy is also immediately sexualised when Jonathan takes the spicy photos of Nancy. And Steve and Robin make booby jokes before Vickie is even introduced. Meanwhile for Stobin, we only really got Steve thinking that he and Robin would be a cute couple but no sexual innuendos whatsoever, hinting that the relationship will not happen because there is no sexual attraction there.

It is initially a bit different for Mileven/Lumax/Byler because they are actually kids at the start of the show. But Season 3 makes such a big fuss about them not being kids anymore and it is coincidentally also the time some of the characters start to make innuendos themselves. Which also means that who they liked as kids is not necessarily who they are eventually attracted to as teenagers.

In comparison to the other teenage relationships, Mileven seems to be a relationship free of any sexual implications. In Season 3 Hopper wants the door certainly not open because he is afraid of them kissing - however, Mike and El never overtly express a desire for sex, neither with each other nor for other people. Milevens like to say "Oh, this means that Mike and El only have eyes for each other" although the sexual implications are completely absent from their relationship.

Of course you could argue that the characters may be demi/ace, but I think especially in Mike's case it is made clear that he is not acespec but a repressed queer (with the Season 4 Episode 1 montage as biggest proof). Some people also insisted (and still insist) that Will is ace too because they are subconsciously so afraid to see any sort of queer attraction on screen. (As a person on the acespec myself, I really long for the day where asexuality is finally done justice on screen. But Stranger Things is clearly a show where they actively contrast lack of sexual attraction and actual sexual attraction with each other. Unfortunately, 99% of media does not include intentionally-accurate representation of asexuality, so right now Stranger Things is not under the obligation to be the show that is suddenly an exception)

This is all so true! People try to argue that Mike and El "making out all the time" is evidence that they have interest in sexual exploration, but A) the show very clearly draws our attention to the fact that he takes his hands off her when they're making out, B) Mike doesn't express sexual interest in the Phoebe Cates, the hot girl of the day, like his friends, C) the show draws our attention to how unnatural it is by having Hopper comment on it, and D) this doesn't progress or increase in any way. In fact, it decreases. In S4, they have one fairly awkward kiss and never show any signs of desire for each other. Instead, the emphasis is on Mike not being able to say ILY to her.

For a ship that's allegedly the main ship, this is all pretty unusual. When was the last time you saw a ship with teenage characters who "only have eyes for each other" yet never show even the slightest sign that they want to explore the physical side of things, even if only 2nd base? It's like Mike got to 1st base and immediately wanted to abort mission and backtrack and never do anything straight again.

Some Milkvans will say it's because Mike is a gentleman, but... come on. Lucas is a gentleman with Max, and the show goes out of its way to emphasize his sexual desire multiple times. Dustin and his girlfriend aren't even in the same state, and she's a devout Mormon, and still there's no doubt that Dustin would round all the bases multiple times in a heartbeat if he got the chance.

Meanwhile, everything between Mike and El looks like a weird, unnatural performance. And they don't even kiss in the desert!

Especially considering the fact that Mike and Will, who are allegedly just platonic friends, do show signs of physical desire. This is what they're like JUST touching arms ever so slightly. Get a room.

[chocotorta-lover]

Nothing. Just me here thinking about a Byler x Miraculous au.

Like, think about it.

(This is also a Will fell first and Mike fell harder cause that trope just hits hard, even tho they are both down bad for each other)

Will as Marinette/Ladybug but different (He could be call "Cleric Bug" or something similar), having Marinette's life but changed. He's bad in love with Mike and he knows it, but he hides it because he doesn't want to ruin their friendship (and because of his internalized homophobia), and even tho he tried to forget him he just can't. He is not a stalker like Marinette, but he does has some issues about liking someone because of trauma like her. He acts like himself around Mike anyway, he can get pretty nervous but just in some occasions. As a civilian he acts like himself around his friends/family, but as his hero form he acts more serious, mostly because he takes this hero stuff seriously (and because he wants to act different so no one can figure out his identity), he can still accept or make jokes tho since he's still a little dork. I'm still thinking about his hero suit but i have some ideas.

Mike as Adrien/Chat Noir but also kind of different (I've been thinking he could be called "Paladin Noir" or something similar), having Adrien's life with some changes. He's in love with Will but he is blind, and refuses to accept it due to his also internalized homophobia (so that's why he start pulling out the "he's just a friend" thing). As a civilian he acts like himself normally but hides some stuff because of his model life (with Will there is some nervousness like in ST) but as his hero form he acts more like himself and can flirt (Like Adrien in MLB). He makes jokes in the middle of the battles to make the fights more fun, he also flirts with Cleric Bug, he might in a moment have feelings for him in the beginning, but that was when he was confused about his feelings for Will. His costume can be something like the original but looking more like an armor referencing the one Will add of the painting, adding the ponytail (I have an idea that Will give him the paiting before they became heroes and he inspired his suit on that).

They know each other a long time ago before becoming heroes like in ST, with the different that they got into their first fight before having their miraculous for the first time (reference of the ST season 4 fight and the one when Adrien and Marinette meet), and as a result they have the famous rain scene as a apology/romantic scene, showing how Will's feeling has grown a lot more and Mike's feelings has start to be more obvious (and starting to grown a lot stronger by the time).

I swear of god i promise I'm gonna draw this, i need to. It's so perfect😭✨

Later I'm gonna think about the others and their roles.

[gayofthefae]

"You're in love with him, and he's in love with you, and it's like a goddamn tragedy,

because you look at him and see the stars, and he looks at you and sees the sun

And you both think the other is just looking at the ground."

[bludnik-a]

mature/explicit byler fic recs??? 👁👄👁

hi nonni!!

quick disclaimer that if ur not comfortable / not ready to explore this type of content u can just scroll past this post. I'll hide fics under the cut.

let start with explicit

"Pink in the Night" by yamilumen. Winter break after first semester of college. Will is drunk, and Mike takes care of him. The morning after, they must face the consequences. TW for dubcon ig. One of the first that I read and still one of my faves. looove byler dynamic in this one.

"in the midnight hour" by @wisehearts. He takes note of the way Will paws at his dress shirt, needy and not entirely aggressive, pressing into kisses in a way that feels like he’s asking for more rather than taking it. Persistent, but pliable if you touched him right. Red wine was fucking magic when it came to Will Byers. if u want smth sweet and hot.

"Hands" by midnighteverlark aka The Parent of byler smut. Mike doesn't like his appearance. Will wants to help out with that.

"A caged bird stands on the grave of dreams" series by AabH. Slavery AU. TW for a lot of violence and abuse.

"the feminization of michael wheeler" by one and the only lawofmurphie. how a bundle of lace and a lifelong crush distract mike from the inevitable implosion of his family unit as he knows it. not only really really hot but also great mike character study. it's more about mike's desires and acceptance at first and u have to wait till byler a bit but it won't disappoint u i promise!

"Conceived in Sin" by eternalwinters, floralsun, keeksbyers. In which Will Byers has a reputation as a bit of a prude. But Mike Wheeler, a guitarist with distinctly the opposite sort of reputation, can't seem to stop thinking about him. good boy/bad boy au we all is lacking.

"i'm starving, darlin'" by id_rather_be_home. Mike and Will are sexually frustrated eighteen-year-olds, sick and tired of having absolutely no privacy in their homes. The hand-jobs and the blow-jobs are fun but Mike will go crazy if Will isn't able to fuck him again before they leave for college in five more months. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

the whole section with my favourite trope "we pretend like it's nothing but it's actually everything". I love every fic Dearly and I would recommend to start with one of this :)

"the thing about illicit affairs" by problematicbyler. Will and Mike become friends with benefits. Which is a totally reasonable arrangement that they’re both completely content with, obviously.

"Privacy" by BottomWillByers. Dustin and Lucas were on night watch so it’s just him and Mike in the room. Having fallen asleep early, both tired from the supply run they were on earlier today, Will passed out as soon as his head hit the pillow only to be woken up a couple of hours later to pressure on his ass. It took a moment to orientate himself. Used to waking up to noise and vibration but not touch. He was pressed up tight to the wall like usual, which usually gave him inches of space between himself and Mike. But not right now. Because Mike had scootched across the bed and was spooning Will from behind. His bare chest pressed alongside Wills exposed back, one arm slung over his waist as he mumbled into the back of his head. Will’s about to ask Mike what was going on when he felt it. The consistent thrusting of Mike’s hips against the swell of his bum. His words die in his mouth as he registered that Mike was asleep. Soft moans spilled from his lips and the hard pressure of his dick stuttered against Will.

"After Hours" by pterafractal. A recently out Will Byers begins his freshman year at Indiana University, with his childhood best friend (and roommate) Mike Wheeler. Between learning to navigate the campus and keep his head above water academically, Will struggles to reconcile changes in his relationship with Mike.

"The Open Door" by Mylesime. He’s too close, too handsome, too real. And Will wants to cry because the shield has almost completely collapsed. “Mike,” he says or begs, he doesn’t know. Mike stares at him and he has never looked so serious. “I really want to do this with you.” The shield breaks. Will feels his mana bar diminish by hundreds of points. He's out of it. It will take weeks to recharge, months even. “Now?” he wails and he hates how frail he’s sounding.

"Pressure Points" by honeytart. College roommates Mike and Will begin a friends with benefits arrangement with one very important rule—absolutely no kissing.

"asking too much" by kissingpractice. Will is struggling. Guys who are nice, hot, AND good in bed are apparently non-existent at their university. Frustrated, he complains to Mike - who makes him an offer he can't refuse. Unfortunately, there's always an aftermath to hooking up with your best friend. Meanwhile, Mike has some realisations.

and mature for anyone who is not ready to deep dive yet

"Touch Me Like You Know Me" by @starsarefire824. Mike doesn't go home anymore, not unless absolutely necessary. Instead, he stays far away from Hawkins, quietly shutting himself off from the world, and burying the pain of the things he never said to the boy he'd left behind. But when his mother convinces him to return home for his thirty-fifth birthday, Mike is finally forced to confront just how much he'd given up when he runs into Will by accident. Mike-centric. Estranged Byler reconnection fic. Soft and Sweet.

"Broken Wings" by Turning_tides. Mike returns to Hawkins after his freshman year of college, riddled with regret and eager to make up for the biggest mistake of his life - hurting Will. He quickly learns, however, that his estranged best friend is being kept behind a locked door. A locked door named Keith. Now, Mike finds himself in a race against time to locate the key, desperate to free the boy he loves from the prison his abuser created just for him. TW for abuse and drug addiction.

"the comforts that make us feel numb" by @newlesbianprideflag “No, but really. If I were a girl,” Mike presses on, looking up at Will with red-rimmed eyes through dark lashes. Leaning in. Somehow, fully unaware that this line of questioning has Will's heart climbing up to his throat. “Would you want to kiss me?” Will and Mike get high in the desert.

"any semblance of touch" by stella :) Mike’s still new to this whole smoking thing. Will has a few ideas.

"In Undertow" by olliecoddle. four months after one byers/wheeler couple breaks up, another gets married. and, of course, will and mike are both the best men. and, of course, there is a plot to get them back together. nothing goes to plan.

***

there're a lot more then i thought ‪😭‬ there're genuinely so many good works. i could look for just one and stumbled upon three other I wanted to include in the list. and i think it's pretty obvious what kind of dynamics i prefer. anyway.

i hope u'll find smth new to u anon but if u won't u can drop ur fic recs in my inbox. love u <3

[love-kurdt]

What are your all time favourite fanfics from each genre: fluff, smut, and agnst? <3

oh lord, this is TOUGH. i’ve read thousands of fanfics in my life and it’s borderline impossible for me to choose 😭

i can’t rlly separate them into genres per se bc most of them are multi chapter novel-length fics, but i will if applicable!

i’m not a huge fan of condensing entire works into a single word!!! authors work too hard for their writing to be trope-ified like that! so if any of the writers come across this post, please know that i would write fucking essays about these fics if y’all asked.

and one last disclaimer: i’m currently on my phone with limited cell service in europe and can’t jump between tabs to check peoples’ separate tumblr and ao3 usernames, so i’ve tagged who i know off the top of my head!!

so here are my top 10 (in no particular order, just listing what comes to mind first)

“in the sun” (kurt cobain x OC) by ugh-nirvana on wattpad. it has been my favorite fanfiction of all fucking time; i read this at least once a year. primarily fluff and angst, but it follows the OC and kurt through high school and into adulthood. the author and i are actually friends now bc we wrote two of the most popular kurt cobain x OC fics on wattpad 😭🖤

“the windows of this love” (byler angst) by delusional together (Whyyyyy) on ao3. phenomenal story, i cry every time i read it, and i’ve read it so many times it’s kind of a problem lmaooo. it was also one of my inspirations for TIMT.

“that blue gibson” (dave grohl x OC) by thatbluegibson on wattpad. a literal masterpiece. cute, romantic, fluffy, spicy, all of the above.

“the rawest desire (in it’s friendliest form)” (byler smut) by bangingbiddies on ao3. they have a very apropos username; this fic had me slamming my laptop shut multiple times and screaming at my cat. probably the best smut i’ve read tbh.

“i’m a wreck (without you here)” (byler angst) by @oldfashionedmorphine on ao3. INSANE. BEAUTIFUL. LYRICAL. i cannot praise this story highly enough, it’s one of my favorite byler fics of all time. alcoholic mike wheeler is my favorite mike wheeler ngl.

“second chances and dances” (byler angst/fluff) by @foodiewithdahoodie on ao3!!!! i’m a huge sucker for dad mike fics, and this one is *chefs kiss*

“lost without you” (byler angst/fluff) by julia_skysong on ao3. another dad mike fic i actually just finished for the 3rd fucking time in the past 6 months. i recommend reading this whole series, it’s so well written (and is still being written!!).

“fence sitter” (byler smut) by pinkcash on ao3. exactly what the title suggests. sensually spicy and severely suspenseful.

“boy in my class [gerard way]” by lilyrose93 on wattpad. it’s a gerard way x OC. very cute, very cliche, but if you’re looking for ✨fluff✨, this is it. and listen, i know writing about real people who are still alive is kinda weird but like… this one is serious, ok??? 💀

“tell me i’m a bad man” by therevengeparade on wattpad. along the same lines as the one before this— it’s teacher/student frerard. very messy, very smutty, top tier drama. if it helps at all, this was probably my initiation to gay fanfic. so… thanks therevengeparade!!! love u!!!

-

happy reading, friends 🥰🖤✨

[lucystark12]

tbh i think the reason i have so much byler doubt even when i know in my soul for a fact that it's real is because i am so deeply traumatized from game of thrones. literally i was able to comprehend at age eleven that the game of thrones ending was bad just because everyone was talking about it, from my parents friends to them, then i watched it for the first time a few years ago and fell deeply in love with it just to have my heart inevitably torn out from my chest and to be laughed at in the face by david benioff and d.b. weiss. i was literally gutted. it hurt me to the core of my being because other than stranger things i have NEVER put close to that much stock in characters. stranger things is the only show i have ever loved in the same way as i did game of thrones and also the only show whose characters i have literally depended on having the right endings. game of thrones has taught me not to trust writers and has made me EXTREMELY apprehensive about the ending of stranger things (specifically mike's arc, who i see so much of jaime lannister in that it literally makes me physically ill)

what i always forget about game of thrones though is that there was a clear reason for it being bad- it's because game of thrones is based off of a book series that isn't finished yet, and when the show runners ran out of genius george r. r. martin plots to adapt, they were given the reigns. and they clearly didn't understand their characters.

david and dan weren't given enough time and source material to give the characters the endings they deserved. they simply didn't know how to do it right, essentially "marvelifying" game of thrones into just a box office hit with expensive fight scenes and dull characters. they never got to set up the VERY important things that have to happen to finally get the characters to where they need to be.

matt and ross ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. these two wrote the original concept for the show and have been the ones in charge the whole time. shows like this don't become famous for being big and loud and dramatic, they become famous for having compelling characters, which is quite literally at the heart (haha) of every story. unless you are literally telling a natural disaster story, your plot is determined by the people who are a part of it. this is why you can't write a fulfilling story by just making something random happen, you have to make your ending coincide with the endings that make sense for your unique characters and what will help finish their arcs. dan and david didn't have the proper set up yet, but matt and ross do.

at the current moment, all signs point to byler. i mean, we know this. there is literally no reason that it shouldn't happen now, that all of this incredible writing and symbolism would come to a head with a rejection at the end. matt and ross haven't run out of source material, they are award winning writers who know what they're doing. there is no reason for them to waste time on plot lines that will essentially just hit a wall with no conclusive ending in the way game of thrones did. dan and david heard "subvert expectations" and took it the wrong way, subverting the character arcs that had been build up for literally decades instead of doing what is george's real plan, to subvert the tropes and commonalities that we see all across fantasy writing and even at most times in the real world. stranger things is also in part about subverting expectations, but matt and ross understand what it actually means to take on that title. subvert expectations- subvert REAL and CONCRETE societal norms, not the way the human brain and heart function.

[castlebyersafterdark]

Is there anything in byler fics that gives you the ick if they have it? Like a specific thing about the characterization that you can't stand, or a certain type of scene happening that makes it hard for you to keep reading even if the fic is objectively well-written 🤔 You know, just your personal opinion lol

Hmmmmm. A few things, and I hate to focus on the negative or critical. But I think there are certain things that apply across the board with spicy stuff or sex scenes in general, but there's also a few points of characterization I don't really jive with for Byler. Under the cut so if someone's not here for critical vibes you can skip this one:

I think I've made it obvious I'm not into heavy dom/sub vibes. With some exceptions - a few fics I've really enjoyed played with the dynamic but they still gotta be Mike and Will, you know? And I so rarely like it. Overall - I don't think it fits them and I don't want to reignite this discussion so send an ask if you want but I'll prob read and ponder and let it sit. ANYWAY. I've dipped out if it sounds super out of character. They just wouldn't have a really really intense dynamic like this. There's a difference between leading in the bedroom and the other being a bit more passive or needy and dom/sub. You can write really rough sex and it not be dom/sub. It's mostly language use. And it's often a case of "He wouldn't fucking say that" with Byler for me. I'm... picky.

Calling someone master/sir is a huge turn off. Icky ick for me. A well placed, rare use of daddy is totally different though. (Not real into an extended scene about it as a d/s dynamic, that leads into secondhand embarrassment for me. But a little teasing implication can be so so good. With limits!!)

I pretty quickly nope out if the dirty talk is too degrading. I don't like that stuff. There's a difference in a cheeky moment of calling each other super needy or a fond little "you're such a slut right now" or "youre so desperate for this, look at you" like that's fine, that can be really hot. But actually degrading dirty talk is a huge turn off for me, irl and in fic, I'll admit that. I'm too sensitive to like it, even fictionally. Just makes me uncomfortable. I also don't like when the fic is supposed to be very early relationship or even their first time ??? and the dirty talk sounds like a bad adult film. What? Takes me out of the read, gotta say bye.

I lose interest when I can tell that they're doing anal with minimal foreplay or prep like to the point where I can't suspend my disbelief based on the action and description up until suddenly they're fucking. I can't take it seriously because the sex becomes nonsense and generic then. This extends to any fandom. Some don't care. But I care!! That's what makes it interesting to read. Otherwise you can swap in any characters and it's just sex scene mad-libs.

I don't typically like topWill in general unless special circumstances/good writing and made clear that they switch.

Oh wait, I think this is the definition of ick. I shrivel up and die at the word ravenette or too many epitaphs. JUST USE THEIR NAMES / PRONOUNS I could be loving a fic and then this happens and I physically feel my spine tense and I have to stop reading in case it's in the fic again. It just really feels embarrassing to me for some reason.

Specific to Byler? I kind of lose focus if it's mentioned even in passing that Will joined anything athletic in school. I'm one of those Will fans who's pretty staunch in the anti-athletic Will Byers agenda. He would never join a sports team. It throws off my groove!!!

These are all my opinions. You can do what you want!! I'm sure I do things and like things that people nope out of. That's why I encourage everyone to just do what you want and post what feels right for you. One man's yuck is another gal's yum is another person's fave is some dude's most hated trope. Mileage may vary and all that. Bless the archive for hosting everything and the ease of fic being at our fingertips. It's so easy to find new stuff and it's also easy to just back out of a fic that didn't jive - someone else might love it!! And that's cool!