#but because it assumes they have an equally valid or invalid reason for what they're doing

[weedle-testaburger]

people talk sometimes about leftists having a 'one strike and you're out' attitude to media where if it does something Problematic they immediately turn on it, and it does happen and is frustrating, but i think it's fascinating how reactionaries do the exact same thing every time a series has any queer characters or characters of colour in it

[ma-gic-gay]

Three hours.

Three goddamn hours of his life he's never getting back that were completely wasted on making this pros and cons list.

There were so many more interesting things he could've done in those three hours. He could've been doing paperwork, or watching paint dry or spending time with his children. Or all three at the same time. But no, he had to help her make the most extensive list he's ever known to exist.

This is some form of karma for hooking up with her.

"This is my personal hell," the brunette tells her. "It's exactly like a nightmare I once had."

"Sounds like an oddly specific nightmare."

"Just let me know when you're done making this list. I have to go do the far more interesting task of watching paint dry. First, I must find where the paint is."

"Not so fast! This list is complete and now it's time to weigh the options here," Carly says, stopping him from moving.

He glances at the list and sighs, "Certain death is not an actual thing that belongs on this list. The same goes for Earth blowing up and someone randomly stalking us. These are just your nightmares, and that's a whole other list."

Pouting, she crosses them off the list. "Happy now?"

"I'd be happier if you didn't waste three hours of my life making this list."

"Oh stop, you know this is the most logical solution," she waves a hand as though she's truly carefree at this moment in time. "Besides, this is an inclusive list of pretty much every reason you could think of."

"Yes, Elizabeth needed to be on this list," Jason says, rolling his eyes at her. "I'm beginning to think you just want to rub this in her face when she's married to and very much in love with Franco Baldwin, despite my better judgement and many discussions with her on that subject."

"Fine, I'll cross her off the list. But getting little Lizzie mad isn't exactly a con," she agrees, sighing.

"And the fact you hate her because we're friends has nothing to do with this," he says, raising an eyebrow. "Need I remind you of your reaction when you found out I had fathered Jake?"

"You hid that from me! And I hate her, but that part doesn't matter as much," the blonde playfully glares at him.

"Mhm," he agrees, rolling his eyes again. The things he does for this woman. "So, are there more pros or cons on this incredibly long list? Please, don't read them all out loud or I think we'll be here until our deaths."

"Roughly equal, but I don't know how you want to weigh each thing. For example, I assume your kids go above the possibility the world could end because of this."

"Cross that one off the list too. The world hasn't ended yet and we've done much more questionable things. Please, let's only count the real reasons that matter, such as," he pauses, looking at the list quickly, "Sonny."

"He's dead, we both know that."

"We also both know you're in love with him."

"Hard to be in love with a dead dude."

"Sounds like it must really suck. I can't know what you're feeling, of course, but sounds pretty bad."

"What I meant was that I don't entirely agree with that statement you made about me being in love with him," she retorts, rolling her eyes.

"Well, besides you, he's my best friend," he reminds her.

"Yeah, but I'm in first place for best friend," she says, smiling as though she's won a prize when he chuckles and nods. "I'm also not dead, which is a major pro to me being your best friend."

"Yes, livelihood is a good trait to have in a friend," Jason agrees, chuckling to himself.

"Well of course it is! Especially when it's me. Now, let's cross off all things that don't apply. Just look at it and cross off everything you don't agree with being on there." She hands him a pen and looks at the paper as he laughs. "Don't laugh at my genius idea, Jason. It's arguably the best I've had in a long time."

"A genius idea would be how to cure cancer, Carly. This is a Carly plan, god help us both."

"You'll be fine," she says, smiling as he crosses something out. "Hey, that's a very valid point there you're just erasing from it!"

"No, it is not. Your mother has absolutely nothing to do with this."

"My mother loves you!"

"Carly, that does not constitute as something for this list."

"I disagree."

"Too late, I crossed her name out already."

"Give me that pen and I will write it again."

"Carly. Let me cross out invalid points here. You can fight me about their validity later in life."

"Fine," she pouts. "But I don't like this."

"And I don't like that I have this list in front of me."

"Just erase all of my hard work like it's nothing, it's fine. Not like it's the most extensive list with each and every thing we need to consider on it," Carly continues dramatically.

Ten minutes later, half of the list is crossed off much to the anger of Carly. "I put my heart and soul into this list and this is how you repay me, crossing out half of it!"

Chuckling, Jason just says, "You'll be fine. Besides, I think that's the last thing I'll be crossing off."

"Well, now we have to organize each of them in order of how serious they are."

"There's more of a process to this?" Jason groans, already dreading that part of his day. "Can't we just make a decision based off of this list in and of itself so that we don't focus another three hours of our days on this?"

"Fine. What do you think we should do from here, using only this list?"

"I don't know, why don't you have a decision made up in your mind? This is taking a concerning amount of time, especially since it's you," he questions.

"Maybe because I'm thinking of what to say when the kids get back here!"

"You mean the kids that are used to me being in your kitchen with you? Yeah, I'm sure they're going to be really confused and realize we hooked up last night at the sight of us," he agrees sarcastically.

"Alright, you make a good point there. I can't make a decision, though," Carly sighs, agreeing with him in a minor victory for the assassin.

"That was the whole point of this list!"

"I never guaranteed that it would work!"

"Yes, you did. You said it would show us which decision would be the right one," he counters.

"You know what, screw the list," Carly says, ripping it up and throwing it in the trashcan. "We can figure this out without needing a list! We're adults, we can solve our problems on our own without needing any help from that."

"Three hours. I'm never getting those three hours back that you spent on that list, Carly, and for you to just throw it away... You're lucky you're my best friend."

"Shut up and just tell me what you feel."

"At this moment? Like I'm getting a headache and I don't have nearly enough patience for your plan."

"I never called it a plan, you did, and you know that's not what I meant."

"What exactly do you want me to tell you my feelings on, then?"

"I don't know, Jason, what's your feeling about Laura and Cyrus being siblings? I want to know your feelings on what happened last night!"

To be continued because I'm falling asleep rn to Taylor Swift breakup songs

"It's hard being in love with a dead dude." Pick a struggle-

[mittensmorgul]

do you think it's open to interpretation whether dean and cas are in love with each other? Like is it just as valid an interpretation to say they're not? Whenever anyone calls destiel "one interpretation" or whatever, my hackles rise. And I know I'm overly sensitive about this stuff, being a gay and whatnot, but I mean, is it? Am I just insecure because my otp isn't canon, or is destiel really more valid than other readings or what? What do you think?

Hi there. :)

I’m gonna give you the diplomatic, academic answer, and then I’m gonna give you the grumpy-ass queer lady answer. Hold on to your horses. :)

Polite answer:

All media is open to interpretation. Of course, this doesn’t mean that all interpretations are equally valid, or equally supported by canon, especially when taken in context of the entire body of the work in question.

For example, I replied to a post the other day about 13.17, and that scene where Dean and Sam are-- on first glance-- rather disrespectful of the extremely rare and valuable books in the bunker... but in context of the rest of the episode and the rest of the season, that montage wasn’t about disrespecting those books at all. It had less than nothing to do with the books themselves as objects or as sources of knowledge that should be properly cared for and respected. But out of context it kinda looks that way. So, based on that one short gif set, it might seem like a perfectly legitimate interpretation to suggest that Sam and Dean were careless with the immense knowledge and invaluable books they’ve found themselves in possession of. But in the larger context of their entire history, of all their interactions with the bunker and the untold store of knowledge it holds,  and with the context of the specific reasons for their frustration in that particular scene, it seems obvious that there’s a lot more to the story, you know?

You could technically argue just about any weird headcanon can be supported by canon. I wrote this weird little post right after 12.11 aired, and it sat in my drafts for a good long time before I finally posted it. But there’s nothing in canon that legit quashes the possibility that endgame fish!Cas is where the story’s been headed all along. He’s positively swimming in fish metaphors. (sorry, I couldn’t resist) Does that abundance of fish, fishing imagery, and water imagery that have surrounded Cas for years lend itself to a literal interpretation? I mean, it’s definitely AN interpretation that is there if you want to see it, and if in your heart of hearts you believe it’s legitimately what the storytelling is attempting to convey here. But does that make it a valid interpretation that deserves serious consideration? Does it truly make sense when taking the larger story around Cas as a whole? Or is it obviously a literary theme that we’re supposed to consider through the themes traditionally associated with fish and fishing as used in countless other fictional works of the past? I suppose that sort of interpretation has been left open for us to take or leave as we see fit. It invites us to examine those references more closely, to help us understand Cas as a character and the journey his personal character arc is taking him through. It gives his experiences and growth a depth of context that is there to explore if we so choose.

(for more on Cas vs Fish, please see my tags regarding “The Fisher King.” I like to think there’s a more well-reasoned and logical line of thinking for pinning so much fish to Cas than my cracky example of fish!Cas would suggest.)

Now, looking at destiel specifically, if you take any single moment out of context, it’s absolutely possible to make an interpretation that their relationship is clearly more “brotherly,” or clearly more “familial,” or clearly one of “very close friends.” But it requires the same removal from the larger context to explain away what taken with the entirety of their history begins to look entirely undeniable.

I suppose, since Supernatural is an open canon and the story hasn’t been fully told yet, that it’s possible the writers could change course with the storytelling. It’s possible that something might prevent them from taking Dean and Cas and their story to the conclusion they’ve been building to for the last ten years. They could decide to leave this particular “interpretation” open-ended and unresolved.

Since that is always a possibility, and because I’m not psychic, nor do I have any top secret inside information from the writers and showrunners, I can’t say that my particular interpretation is more valid or correct or likely than anyone else’s. But I have yet to come up against a credible, coherent explanation for the entire body of extant canon that invalidates my particular interpretation, either.

The vast majority of arguments against boil down to logical fallacies-- cherry-picking scenes out of context as “proof,” straw man arguments, and ad hominem attacks. Because of this, I’m content to wait for canon to play out. I’ll happily watch the rest of the story unfold, and happily continue to interpret what I’m witnessing as a whole instead of attempting to dissect it out and explain away what I see as an entirely logical progression of storytelling.

As an aside here, I find it entirely fascinating that one of the most common complaints I read from people who deny Dean and Cas are in love is that the writing has become progressively more terrible, that the story of Supernatural as a whole makes less and less sense, and that the characters are behaving in increasingly “out of character” ways. And as someone in possession of rational capabilities, I wonder if their disconnect from the storytelling is simply their refusal to see and accept that perhaps their “interpretation” of the story is just... not correct.

When we attempt to deny or rationalize away certain interpretations of characterization, or certain progressions of events and how they relate to one another, the larger narrative just falls apart, you know? Of course it doesn’t make sense if you exclude large portions of it because you don’t want to see it or believe it’s happening, or important to the story.

Meanwhile, I’m over here loving every minute of it (okay... most minutes of it). So even if my interpretation isn’t absolutely 100% “correct” (and really, with any media, there’s always different ways to interpret everything, from what the color of the curtains might imply to who’s gonna get to fire Chekhov’s Gun in the third act), I’m content to continue to interpret it in a way that not only makes me personally happiest, but in a way that makes the story itself seem both logical and entertaining, as well.

Okay, that’s the end of the rational portion of this essay. Now on to the angry queer lady portion:

There’s more canon evidence for Dean and Cas being in love, or at the very least caring for one another to ridiculous, rather mind-numbing degrees, than there is for practically every canon heterosexual couple on television in the last fifty years. Think of any slow burn, will they-won’t they hetero couple, and do the point-by-point checklist of all the tropes they burned through before they got to the love declarations and the kissing and the happily ever afters (or worse, the dramatic breaking up and getting back together, or even worse, the tragically breaking up forever). I challenge anyone to name one hetero-presenting couple who required as many love tropes for audiences to recognize and acknowledge they were in love. Yeah, I’m thinking of that whole “they shared a pencil” post.

So yeah, there is likely a measure of heteronormativity to it, and a lot of the arguments against also devolve into rather gross denouncements that there’s no way Dean’s not straight, because he said so that one time... Mr. “I lie professionally” who also never actually said he was straight... gah... I’m not gonna dig up every ancient meta post on the subject. If anyone is legitimately interested in understanding why making those same tired arguments just doesn’t have any legitimacy in a reasoned discussion, they can damn well do their own digging. It’s not like any of the evidence is difficult to uncover, and it’s not my job to spoon feed it to every naysayer myself.

I feel like I’m standing on a Mt. Everest size pile of rational, reasonable, well-argued analysis supporting the claim that Dean and Cas are in love. *stands back and points at my whole entire blog again* If anyone would like to come back at me with something even remotely worth my time and attention to persuade me to alter my interpretation, I suggest they get busy. I’ll just be up here on top of my mountain enjoying the clean, destiel-scented air up here.

And finally, who says it’s not canon? Ah, right. Moving goalposts. At this point, I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that Dean and Cas don’t love one another. And profoundly, at that. I mean, you don’t give up an army for one guy if you don’t at least like him a lil bit. You don’t shout down God begging him to bring back that dude you’re kinda buddies with, or sink into a suicidal funk that reverses completely within minutes of finding out said buddy’s alive again. You don’t offer to march to your death with your chum because he’s such a nice guy and all. I mean... honestly. How far in denial does someone have to be to suggest they don’t love each other? At this point, when comparing Sam and Dean’s reactions far into s13 to Cas’s death in 12.23, either you accept that Dean has much stronger and far different feelings about the loss of someone that Sam does love and considers a brother, or else you kinda have to assume that Sam’s just kind of a dick for not being as broken up about Cas’s death as Dean is. So... which interpretation do you think is the one they’re trying to convey?

Bleh, whatever. I await the inevitable inbox full of nastiness that I will cheerfully delete while judging every anon who sends it as someone who really should find a better hobby than antagonizing strangers on the internet over a work of fiction.

Anon, basically, don’t let the bastards grind you down, okay?

Now for some reason I feel like listening to Achtung Baby. Imma go do that and feel the love.