#but at the end of the days it's just fandom wank so don't worry

[vanmarkus]

is everything okay?

aww you're so sweet for checking in 🫶

i'm okay, i'm just genuinely apathetic towards this fandom as a whole rn

between people rehashing the exact same discourse literally every week and 12yo kids sending anons i would've been ashamed of when i was their age, let alone now (which makes the anon part all the more understandable i guess) and the way some people have this weird parasocial relationship with the actors and the creators they've never met or talked to — either romantically or hatefully — while also having an incredibly loose relationship with reality and just the hiatus in general...

idk man, i've been in fandom spaces for a long time and i've never seen anything as stupid as 911 like... sure spn was a mess and voltron was a violent mess (and i only saw both of those from the sidelines) and ofc sherlock was a dumpster fire... but this is a primetime procedural, essentially a soap. (i wonder what soap fandoms are like tbh?? is there such a thing? anyway...)

i'm just too tired to care is all.

[cellsshapedlikestars]

Don’t worry about answering this is you don’t want to. I know you don’t like fandom wank. But, if you feel like it, do you think someone could make those endpoints work? Bran as king and Jon at the Wall even though there’s a big old hole in it and Dany deliberately burning King’s Landing before Jon or Arya kills her, is that an ending any writer, no matter their skill, could sell to the hardcore fans? I don’t think the fandom would accept it even if GRRM wrote it.

lololol I deleted my post already anon, so for those of you who didn't read it - I was once again whining about how d&d fucked up the last bunch of seasons and every character. it's not a new take, just something I was high thinking in the shower, so I deleted it bc it wasn't productive.

But I'll answer this, because I think it's interesting.

In short - no.

(Beneath the cut for a longer explanation and just a whole bunch of my ranty thoughts. pls remember I am no asoiaf scholar and I haven't studied every aspect of the books or read every meta. These are just my opinions.)

Longer - at this point, too much time has gone by, there is literally no way George can please... probably even half of his fanbase, no matter what he does. From what I can tell, the fandom too divided and there's so much hatred between stan groups (which I do find ridiculous, but it is what it is). People have cemented their own ending in their heads after decades of the fandom existing without an official ending, and I can see a lot of them not liking that they're wrong. Some people have spent 30 years with their theories, it's sunk cost fallacy. Case in point, the show ending being written off as fanfiction by a lot of fans.

which, tangent, I get. I GET why d stans don't believe the ending, because it was so poorly executed. I truly do understand their denial, because the show gaslit the audience for soooooo long that she was the girlboss hero and then seemed to do a 180 at the end. What was that post I just reblogged the other day? I don't hate villains, I hate when the narrative tries to convince you the bad person is actually good.

now, you asked if anyone could make those endpoints work, but I don't actually think most of them are the real endpoints? I think they were D&D giving up and not trying, or going for Shock Value™. But for fun, I'm gonna go by endpoints I think are most to least likely, and my thoughts on how they could happen and how D&D fucked them up.

Bran as king: Confirmed by grrm. How he'll make this work, I have no idea. I genuinely didn't see it coming tbh. I thought the "bittersweet" ending would be Jon being forced to take the crown in KL. like it's a good ending for everyone else, but for him it's misery. I'm sure grrm has his plans, and I'd be interested to see how he pulls it off. This end point does not disappoint me and I'm not mad at being wrong, but I can see a HUGE swath of people HATING it. specifically D stans.

D&D blew this hard. They cut Bran out of an entire season, making him seem to the audience like a lesser character and not important. They made him a robot. Why am I rooting for show!Bran? Also, I will never, ever get over that line - who has a better story than Bran the Broken? I don't know Tyrion, literally everyone else?? JON DIED AND CAME BACK TO LIFE. ahem.

(as far as I'm aware, Bran as king is the only ending grrm has confirmed?? correct me if I'm wrong.)

D as the big bad: I guess grrm hasn't officially confirmed this, but... he's sort of confirmed it, riiiiight? He compared dragons to nuclear weapons. The show has her as the villain (poorly executed or not). When I gave hotd a shot, literally the opening lines were about the Targs bringing themselves down immediately after name dropping her. Seems pretty solid to me. D&D just refused to commit to her villain arc because they didn't want to alienate their audience that they'd gaslit into thinking she was the hero, and they were seemingly obsessed with Shock Value™ twists.

Dany burning KL: I think the burning of KL is going to happen, and it seems like Dany is the only one to really do it? Unclear how it will happen, I'm sure people have theories. What the show didn't have was Aegon, so who knows how he'll factor in.

Arya sailing west: I think there's a lot of foreshadowing for it. It fits her nature. I think this is very likely to happen and I guess D&D handled it ok. They did ruin her character, though, by making her a literal mass murderer. But yayyyyyy feminism I guess.

Theon sacrificing himself for Bran: Theon's was the only arc I think the show did well. They ruined it at the end by having Theon literally throw himself onto the Night King's sword, which was so fucking stupid, but the arc itself is poignant and fits his character. While he can't ever redeem himself to Robb, he can redeem himself to Robb's siblings, and considering he once pretended to kill Bran, I think this is solid.

Cersei and Jaime dying together: this was my theory even before the show ending, and I think it fits their characters. They cannot live without each other, no matter if they hate each other. They're too deeply entwined in each other. Now, I personally wanted Cersei to be taken captive and put in the black cells to be publicly burned later, and then Jaime shows up and mercy kills her and then himself bc he can't live without her.

But I guess getting bonked on the head by some avoidable rocks is also a way to do it

Sansa as QitN: I'll be honest and say I hated this ending because she ended up alone. Sansa, who has wanted nothing more than family and safety since book 1, ends up completely alone. Even Brienne, her sworn shield, leaves her. but she's a queen, so yayyyy feminism I guess.

I can see her as queen, but I can also see her ending up as queen regent for Rickon, because I'm not totally convinced Rickon dies? like in the show he just randomly shows up and gets captured by Ramsay and it just feels like that isn't his arc in the books. Maybe I'm wrong. But I could see D&D having the endpoint of Sansa as regent, but they killed Rickon off already for Shock Value™, and so they went oops! and made her queen.

Now, there is a part of me that thinks she will not be queen or queen regent, because how does one break off and declare independence from their own brother? Feels like that would destabilize his rule and not give people much faith in him. It just seems really strange to me, but I guess it could happen, since Northern Independence is such a huge theme and it would be weird if it didn't happen?? Does Bran just let her secede? And it doesn't make Dorne or the Iron Islands try.... That's the part in the show that literally did not make sense to me. Sansa was like bye, I'm taking the north, and no one else spoke up about that.

I'd be totally fine with her as queen (if she has someone!!) but I can see a gooooood chunk of the fandom absolutely hating this. surprise.

Brienne as Kingsguard: while I like it for narrative purposes, because she deserves it, I just can't see her leaving Sansa, if she becomes as close to Sansa as she does on the show? If Sansa is queen, I could see her as Sansa's Queensguard. But what does she have in KL? The south didn't ever respect her, why would she want to go back. I think D&D put this in so they could have the ending shot of her writing in the book about Jaime for the shippers

Jon at the Wall: the only reason he went to the Wall in the show was because Grey Worm demanded it? And then left. So. You know, real enforceable. So stupid. Genuinely the worst writing of all the endings, I think, the logic made zero sense there. Now, that could be because they'd written themselves into a corner, but knew Jon ended up at the Wall, and had to force it?

But to me, it's like - what was the point of his resurrection, then? In the show, he doesn't even kill the Night King (we'll get to that). He kills D, sure, but... He's also the reason she succeeds in Westeros to begin with. So what, he gets resurrected, causes havoc, fixes the havoc he caused, and then is sent away to a Wall that serves no purpose anymore? WHAT PURPOSE DOES THE WALL SERVE. The Others are defeated, there's a big ol' hole in it, and they've allied with the Free Folk to an extent. How does the Watch continue on?

I guess he could self-banish. I know the show sort of makes the implication that he goes off with the Free Folk, but in the books, he doesn't really like FF culture? He's appalled by a lot of the violence in it. I can't see him wanting to live that way.

Brai.me: don't get me wrong, I like Brai.me. I think it's cute, in fanon. In canon, I think Brienne is too good for him. I don't see their relationship going romantic or sexual. I think Brienne is who Jaime desperately wants to be (but Cersei is who he keeps being pulled back to). Them having sex was 100% for the shippers

Jo/ner.ys: I'm putting all the punctuation in that. don't need them finding me somehow. Anyway. I don't think this happens, at least not as a true romance. They're on opposite continents and there's not a ton of time left, but more than that - and I know I've said this before - I can't see Jon "hates seeing people burned alive" Snow falling in love with D "loves to burn people alive" T. Could it be a political thing? Maybe, but I also could see her having an alliance with Aegon.

I think there's 2 possible reasons for this being in the show and presented as an actual romance. 1) it was supposed to be that pol!Jon theory, but they chickened out (same with jonsa & a love triangle, I think they chickened out bc of the incest. I think now with hotd being incest central and fans loving it, they wouldn't balk anymore). 2) just the spectacle of it? people have been theorizing this for years, why not give it to them? see above, brai.me

Tyrion as Hand: bleh. I know the fandom loves him and he was clearly D&D's fave, but grrm has said Tyrion is the most morally gray character, and I can't see him letting Tyrion get everything he's always wanted, you know? People think asoiaf is grimdark, but I can't imagine grrm punishing Jon with banishment while giving Tyrion a cushy position with lots of power.

I've read the theory that Tyrion ends up at the Wall, which I like thematically, but again, WHAT PURPOSE DOES THE WALL SERVE. Is it just a penal colony at that point?? someone smarter than me, tell me.

Grey Worm & Missandei condoning/encouraging D: hated it. Take the only characters of color to have speaking lines (i'm 99% sure) in the last season and turn them vengeful and murderous (especially grey worm). Throw their characters under the bus to absolve D of blame

Arya killing the Night King: no. he doesn't exist in the books, first, and even in the show it made zero narrative sense. It was just a Shock Value™ twist. You thought it was gonna be hero Jon, hmmmmmm? WRONG. I've said it on here before, but my hope is that it's Sam that brings down the Others in the book somehow.

.

Did I forget anything, anon? This probably veered wildly from the point of the ask, but oh well, it was fun. (I had a jonsa section in here at first, but then I remembered this is show canon ending stuff and that was not canon sorry fellow jonsas. I obvioulsy want it to be the ending bc the shipper brainrot is real, buuuuuut...)

[randomnameless]

hey, sending this anonymously because i try to avoid the prying eyes of the weird fe fans when i can- but stumbled across your blog recently and had to tell you i appreciate it! you have a lot of the same insights to the games (both old and new) that i do, and it was a relief to find someone who can see through a lot of the bullshit writing/localization in games like fe16 and isnt afraid to point out how ridiculous the treatment of some characters and story lines are. i got very seriously harassed on fire emblem twitter during 2019 when 3h released and i was vocal about my disdain for edelgard and her route, so finding this corner of tumblr where people don't pull any punches calling out the racism and antisemitic vibes of the whole thing is refreshing.

No worries anon!

It's kind of sad we can't exchange or talk without going all "anon" like, and while I want to say it's exclusively because of the FE16 wank, imo it's a deeper current in the fandom, where some people just don't know how to enjoy things without ruining other people's enjoyment anymore!

Like sure, if there's something you disagree with, usually you'd make a reply, and then they're would be discussion, and ultimately everyone would part ways and joke about memes or something stupid, but now it's full on insults, spam asks and harassment...

I remember an old meme around circulating on SF that would be posted each time someone started a topic with "am i the only one who thinks X is better than Y" or something, and each time there'd be a person going all "yes you're the only one of the millions of internet users around the net lol"

But sure, in 2019 it was a bit, uh, complicated to have dissenting opinions because everyone bought a certain narrative and refused to consider anything else no matter where you went, so at least I thought on Tumblr I could post whatever I wanted without attracting the downvote pogroms from redshit or that one posted who posted each day for several weeks a post on the 3H topic about how Supreme Leader is good ackshually - but apparently even Tumblr isn't a safespace anymore, since people were harassed out of the general FE community!

Still, fwiw, I'll still be there to enjoy the things I like about the Fodlan verse, and let others enjoy the things they like about the Fodlan verse, and that's it and make fire jokes

Lizards BaD and the reason why Fodlan sucks, and actually the meta reason why every FE world sucked at one point?

Have that instead :

Modern!AU where Seteth accepted to house his siblings for a few months, but ends up kicking them out when Indech drinks all of his milk and puts the empty bottle back in the fridge, when Rhea gave the keys of Seteth's newest car to Willy, or when Macuil told him to shut up because he was watching cartoons with Flayn.

[monstersinthecosmos]

Why is Armand depicted as looking like he's 12 in so many fanworks? I know 17 is young, but I don't remember myself or any of my classmates looking like fetuses in high school. I can't remember anything in the books describing him as looking like a little kid either so where did it come from?

Ngl I'm fine with any casting that doesn't follow this fanon description because I don't want to see anybody who looks that young sucking and fucking.

Gonna be real with you, I've personally never seen fanart where he looks 12, so I'm not sure where you're seeing it.

What I have seen, overwhelmingly, is that most artists in this fandom don't use veristic art styles. I've been reblogging Armand art for years and there's not a ton of realism in here lol. If you see any of these random Armands and think he looks 12, I feel like that's a You thing.

TVL does describe him as being chubby and there's a handful of artists who draw that a lot! Like having baby fat in his face still, that's so tragic lol. A lot of characters describe him as cherubic. I think the two extremes of Armand art are either his chubby face or his complete waification. I think it's also always worth asking the creator why they depict him as younger. It could be a point of catharsis to exaggerate for their own storytelling purposes, it could also be their style or level of technical skill. I'm not the person to answer that for everybody.

I see this conversation in anime fandoms a lot, too, this idea that the art or animation style is so far removed from the human form that it becomes whatever the artist says it is. And you as the viewer make those decisions, as well, even if it's subconscious. Like lol -

I reblogged this pic of Louis the other day, too; does he look 12 because he's chibi or can you look at it and understand it's just cute and that he's a grown man?

It really gets into this kinda hairy conversation about art being coded and I don't think you can draw those lines without falling into some problematic traps. I can't recall what the anime title was but a while back there was this big controversy with fandom antis upset that this adult character was "child coded" because she was short and had small tits. It gets into this area of saying that women are children if they have small tits. In Armand's case, it gets into rules like "skinny people don't look like adults" or "people with chubby faces don't look like adults" and whether you're intending to say this or not in your ask, in Fandom Wank Olympics this conversation always concludes with: You are a predator if you're attracted to someone who is too skinny or who has small tits or a chubby face. Likewise, if you are too skinny or have small tits or a chubby face you do not have the agency to enter adult relationships because everyone attracted to you is a predator. Same goes for the infantilization of short people.

(Cough, looking at you AMC and how Claudia is doomed for having small tits.)

So anyway not to get heavy but that's where it sounded like your message was going.

In the end, it's art, it's 2D, I'm not sure where you're seeing 12 year olds in the Armand artwork but I'd wonder if that's your own lens and your own bias. I've been a hardcore loser Armand stan for most of my life and I haven't seen this fanon that people treat him like he's 12. The opposite, in fact.

Fanart of a vampire who has never existed does not hurt anybody. You cannot victimize Armand, he is not real. So whether people make him look 12 on purpose or not ........... who cares?

As far as the show goes, they hired a 19 year old for Claudia and made it obvious that they're not willing to work with minors, so I wouldn't worry about it. They're not going to hire a 12 year old. And like you said, 17 year olds don't look like that anyway, so I'm not sure what the issue is.

As a final bonus meta point: I think it's funny when people get grossed out by Armand (or Claudia's) age because it's exactly the reason their stories are horrifying. You're supposed to be uncomfortable lol. Their lives are difficult because people think they are children. Armand manages because he looks a bit older, but every character describes him as being so disarmingly beautiful because he seems young, when he's in fact so cold and shrewd and dangerous. That dichotomy is where the flavor's at, baby! That's the point! He's 500 years old bro!

But if it makes you uncomfortable I'd suggest just blocking artists whose styles look too young. Curate your dash! I know sometimes a blocked OP shows up in reblogs and whatever but I'd suggest muting the OP's name on XKit to prevent that, it works really well for me!

[eisforeidolon]

There is no more Supernatural fandom, there are only fans of each actor and haters of the same, so for me the exaggerated criticism of JA is also unjustified, most don't even care about the show anymore, they're just angry because their favorite is not in the project of Jensen and use anything as an excuse referring to the hate

I agree with another anon about the often clueless criticism of Jensen, I wasn't willing to see TW but the exaggerated hatred of the people on this show is making me change my mind, I really want the show to do well

************************************

People who criticize Jensen for whatever reason are Jared's stans, neutral Supernatural fans aren't really worried about The Winchester, some liked the idea, some didn't, but no one spends all day and night talking about it and wishing ill until 5 Jensen's generation

************************************

I'm going to combine these three asks, because while they're not exactly the same, I think my answer to each is sufficiently similar it'd be pretty repetitive to answer them individually. Hope nobody minds!

While I do think the fandom has definitely gotten more fractured and fractious since the show ended, I think people are maybe looking back at how much all factions of the SPN fandom wanked themselves raw in negative speculation over any little thing while the show was airing with slightly rose-tinted glasses. Every dumb thing some showrunner or producer said, the other two attempts at spin-offs even before we saw them, as little as some random speculative article on obviousbullshit.com could stir up huge drama. Fandom is made up of heavily invested people, a lot of whom are very suspicious of change - after the last several seasons of SPN, for good reason IMO. Yes, TW is a separate show nobody has to care about, but it is taking place in the SPN universe, so expecting SPN fans not to react to it - and overreact to it, in fact - is not particularly realistic.

So while I do think a lot of it is just petty stan war bullshit, especially in cases where the specific emphasis is on how dumb/awful Jensen is? Not all of the negativity and skepticism about TW is from that. Especially right now when we have so very little of substance to base opinions on and a lot of unanswered questions. Meanwhile there's also little active news about anything else nearly as big to talk about that's as directly of interest to SPN fans as a whole.

I remain ambivalent about TW as a concept and am pretty burnt out on the outrage machine chasing its own tail at this point, but I'm actually pretty sure that even if prequelgate hadn't happened and Sam & Dean were equally present or absent from the concept? There would still be a lot of negative noise - the participants in and focus of the wankery would just be slightly different.

[devilbat]

Spoiled, Chapter 4

Warning: Derogatory/Crude comments, cursing, maybe pinning. Drinking

"Eric, I think y/n would do exceedingly well in the industry. She does have a knack for it. Y/n is always "so well" put together." He defended you, making sure to empathize on 'Well.' Make sure you knew what he was hinting at. He was pleased with himself seeing the look on your face. Him defending you the look of why. Why would he defended you was another story. "And besides, they do still teach them the business aspect of the industry there."

He didn't work this hard to get this far from you to come in, not knowing what the hell to do and run company into the ground. He deserved this, not wanting a spoiled little girl get handed a company she knows nothing about. He could run it better without having to babysit. He would need to work on Eric more with the whole fashion school. It was where you belong not in the corporate business dealing with men that would never take her seriously. Just another pretty face, giving 90% of the company boners.

After lunch, he was in more meetings dealing with idiots that couldn't do their damn jobs. Some of the people Eric had hired as interns. Didn't know how to find an ass on a donkey even if it bites them in their own arse. Another reason why Princess wouldn't be cut out for this. The high demand, the stress, and late nights. Tom slumped down into his plush chair. Pulling his tie from his neck, the blasted thing felt like a noose around his neck. His hand rubbed the back of his neck. To say he needed a drink, was the understatement of the year. Some kind of release for the pent-up tension in his body was starting to get to him.

Tom looked over at his Mobile, maybe a different kind of release was in order one he could quickly do himself. Snatching his phone from his desk, staring at the screen as he unlocked it. Your name was the first to appear when he opened his texts. His thumb hovered over your text. He looked at the door noting that he had locked it after he walked in his office. His pants growing a little tighter at the thought that had crossed his mine and the photos just waiting to be looked at.

"What the hell are you doing, mate." Tom cursed himself as he slammed the phone face down on the desk. "You need to delete those. Not bloody wank off to them." He groaned his head fell, taking a deep breath, trying to calm himself down. 'She is just your partner, "little girl." That's all she is, a girl. A bloody fuckable one. No one would know that I. No Thomas, you bloody wanker.' Tom hissed, shifting in his chair, too uncomfortable to cross his leg. "Fuck," looking back at his phone before grabbing it again.

---

Tom made it to the bar that his friend owned. It was a bit sketchy, but it was a perfect place to whine down. Drink himself a bit stupid and maybe hook up with some random chick. The bass was heard from the parking lot as he parked his jag next to his buddy's new bike. Both vehicles looked a bit out of place for this establishment. But Tom wasn't worried. The site, even for it looks on the outside, held a lot of people in positions like his.

"Evening, mister Hiddleston." The big broad man covered in tattoos, with a deep Southern drawl greeting him as Tom walked up.

"Evening Mike." Tom nodded as the man let him in the door. The old-time rock and roll played from the speakers overhead, were barely understandable for how loud it was in the joint. Moving throughout the sea of people.

"There's my sexy Englishman; I was wondering when you would show that handsome face again." The woman at the bar purred her blonde hair piled up high. Her hands were resting on her exposed sides.

The tiny outfit she wore giving her the upper hand on better tips. The shirt she wore barely covering her, showing off her breasts that were held on by a push-up bra that was most likely two sizes, two small. Her shorts were about the same two sizes too small. She wasn't bad looking, not at all. Just not Tom type of girl. Sure maybe for a quick little fuck but nothing more than that.

"You finally here, to whisk me away from this place?" She cooed. She was leaning over the bar. Making sure her rack was on full display. Pouring Tom his usual.

"At last love, I am not. Truly I am sorry. But I need to see the man upstairs." Tom gave her one of his panty-melting smiles, making any girl swoon.

"Breaking my heart here. He's over there. It's his "night off." She pouted. Tom nodded, patting the wood surface of the bar as he pushed himself away.

"Tom, buddy." The man booming voice was almost louder than the music that was blasting. He patted the set next to him.

"Chris." Tom sat next to the muscle-bound blond.

"You look like you need a few more drinks and a few good rounds with a pretty little thing.." Chris pointed out.

"You have no idea, mate. It's been one of those days let me tell you." Tom huffed, taking a long drink from his whiskey. His eyes were scanning the room.

"Well, I'm all ears and happy to give you liquid courage to find some girl to stick your cock in." Chris chuckled, bumping Tom's shoulder with his. Tom rolled his eyes. His large hand rubbed his face before scratching at his beard.

Tom may have let it slipped about the photo. But immediately told his friend he had deleted them. He didn't want his friends to see you like that. Sure he has yet to abolish them, but he wasn't going to parade them around either. His head hit the back of the booth, adjusted his legs, keeping his knees apart. While his friend went on and on about how he shouldn't have erased your photos, that on lonely nights, he could be pulling himself off to them. Better then porn almost, you were somthing physically known, let along could touch.

"I'm telling you, man, and you could see that nice little peace more than once. You can not sit here and tell me you don't want to make her scream. I'm sure daddy's little Princess has a few little kinks in need of revealing." Tom took a deep breath. His hand feels over his face. Before he turned to tell his friend to shove it. Chris was not helping his still unsatisfied need.

When he looked up, he spotted you coming in with someone. You were weaving through the crowd of people behind the other girl, making heads turn. He was surprised to see you in a place like this. Little Princess in a biker bar. Dressed in a cute little number that covered more than the bartender but more revealing then he would like.

          Tom watched you and your friend as you took the first of your shot. Clearly, you were annoyed about something. A smile reached his face; perhaps it was him you were very animated about. Your friend seems way to entertain the whole thing. This time you were the one to leave heading towards the bar. Ignoring his friend's complete, Tom found himself heading to the bar as well. His friend, only hearing him mumbled about needing another round.

              "Does daddy know you're here, princess." Tom purred into your ear, smirk placed along his lips as he watching you jump in surprise. Tom leaned his hip against that wood bar.

              "T-Tom, what are you doing here?" You stuttered out nervously. Tom raised his hand, holding up two slender fingers to the blonde bartender, which he received a suspicious nod from.

              "I would ask you the same thing, Princess. This isn't some high-end club, darling." Tom hummed his eyes intensely watched you.

               "I'm well aware of that." You huffed. "And could you stop calling me Princess." You glared up, tapping your heel along the wood floor.

               "What would you like me to call you, kitten perhaps." He cooed, pulling at a lose strained of hair. The bartender brought you your drinks and Toms as well before you could protest about the name. "Her drinks are on me." Tom tapped the oak counter. "See you around, kitten." Tom pushed away from the bar. Making you scoff, he could hear the clear annoyance in your voice. Maybe a little anger was bubbling up.

Tom/Loki Tag's: @theoneanna @graveyard-groupie @silverquartx @moonfaery @kcd15 @moonlightprime @youveseen--thebutcher @shockwavee @sabine-leo @screw-real-life-i-pick-fandoms @darkprincessloki92 @archy3001 @chaoticwithpurpose @paanchu786, @metalheadspider @myownviperroom @arosewithdaisies @jilldsumner @daughterofsunandmoon93 @too-cold-for-youhere @iamverity @sterwild @hiddlefan81 @matczvkv @desimarie12 loser-alert, @cest-le-temps-de-lamour @lucantis @sherlokiholland @kryptonite2116 @justthatfangirloverthere @littleredstarfish @amore-p-siche @thathedonistgirl

Spoiled: @ladybugsfanfics @the--queen-of-hell @alexakeyloveloki @lynnesm @sleepingbytheriver @waywardbella @dreams-in-blxck @skulliebythesea @midnightbarnes97 @marsbars101 @maah-chan @silverlightsaber @lil-mewlingquim07 @i-am-a-mes @xxi-king @ohportgas @siofasic @shegatsby @nayr9e @zoeychan1125 @mishaandthebrits

[bluephoenixdruidicprincess]

This whole thing were some blogs are going "just because we don't expose your IP adress dosen't mean we don't know who you are",to people they don't like or is rude to them is so infuriating.Yes,they got a hate anon.Yes,that sucks and the anon should fell ashamed.But going "I know what you did last summer" on people dosen't give them moral high ground, if anything it makes them lose it.If the message is that awful, just post it and say that you'll either report them to Tumblr's staff... 1/2

2/2 …or to the police.Treatening people like that is what starts shame cultures,wich could lead to a crazy person jumping on the “know the IP adress” bangwadon and try to ruin someone’s life over a difference of opinion.I know that hate mail is horrible and they should seek an authority for help if it happens,but threatening someone over “wank” is really bad.Sorry for the rant, but the way some influential blogs are handling some situations is making me worried about the future of this fandom.

No need to apologize for the rant. I completely understand the need and I’m more than happy to provide that service to you. In fact, I often rant to myself all the time about these bloggers (most of the time when I’m in the shower, I do my best thinking in the shower). And this threat they keep on falling back on is absolutely reprehensible and I despise it. It absolutely contributes to shame culture. They think of it, like you said, as a moral high ground and a satisfactory way to deal with the hate, but really all it is is an intimidation tactic. It’s basically saying, “if you don’t agree with me, just know that it’s within my power to find you and I can ruin your life”. They say they’re not the bullies but in fact, they are bullying, they are exerting power over another, trying to take away a person’s right to free speech. And a little bit of truth here, free speech is a double-edged sword. You have the right to say whatever you want but guess what? Other people also have that right and you don’t get to dictate that person’s free speech just because you don’t agree with them. I’m vocal about my opinions on my blog and I do at times get hate but I still respect it’s their right to free speech to get in my ask box and accuse me of being all sorts of atrocities and I’m okay with that because at the end of the day, I only have to be able to live with myself, I’m not going to lose that much sleep if some anonymous person on the internet thinks I’m terrible and a waste of space. Some people I have perfectly legitimate and healthy debates with and others not so much. But I will never get down on someone for having a different opinon than me.

And once again, when I first heard this story about people being threatened like this, I asked, “who decides what ‘wank’ is?” Do people not realize how slippery of a slope this is when it comes to fandom and just in general, free speech? Sure, it may start as simply silencing the trolls but that’s just the first step. It’ll inevitably lead into silencing anyone who has a different opinion than you until we have a fandom that only has like-minded members who think the exact same way, and from there an entire society that’s only allowed to think one way. And I don’t know about you but that’s not a fandom or society I want to be a part of. Plus, stifling free speech through intimidation is exactly what a corrupt government does, which is ironic considering how “woke” some of these bloggers seem to think they are, they don’t even seem to realize they’re mimicking the same behavior of those they say they despise. And you’re absolutely right. Truth be told, most of these people that are making these kinds of threats, I don’t believe a lot of them actually have the ability to make good on some of these threats. But all it takes is one person who does have that ability and begins doxxing and/or swatting and having their life and livelihood threatened and suddenly the fandom becomes this scary intimidating place where no one wants to talk about anything out of fear. So much of fandom is already policed so much and it’s really scary to think that if the current behavior keeps on going as it is, fandom could turn into this kind of Stepford Wives society where no one is allowed to think in color.

And there’s also a huge difference between a difference in opinion and “hate speech” and I’m not sure some of the folks in the fandom understand that difference. Someone disagreeing with you is not hate speech, even if they do it in a rude way, it still doesn’t necessarily make it hate speech.

It’s getting to the point where I kind of just stop reading these meta blogs. In fact, I’ve been seeing this so much particularly in the Destiel fandom, that it’s actively making me not want to ship Destiel. I’ve never been a super hardcore Destiel shipper but that’s beside the point. I ship them as more companions than as actual romantic partners. Some of these big name bloggers are just so caught up in their own heads and their own speculations about a Destiel endgame that they can’t comprehend the idea of someone not shipping Destiel and if you don’t ship it the exact same way they do or even at all, that means you’re heteronormative or some shit like that and I can’t stand seeing that. A romantic Destiel reading is perfectly valid but so is a non-romantic one. I wouldn’t mind a romantic Destiel endgame but nor would it be this huge affront if the writers choose to not go in that direction. But some of these bloggers are so caught up in it and call any one who thinks differently as being stupid, homophobic, heteronormative, a nazi, the gambit of atrocities you can be as a human being and I hate seeing it. Once again, that’s an intimidation tactic and I find it absolutely reprehensible and I’m growing further and further away from the Destiel community every day because of it.

[sage-nebula]

Ooh i love dragon age I would be so excited to see you get into it! I saw some people already talked about romances but for specific clarification: in origins (da #1), there are four romance options--a straight man and woman, and a bi man and woman. Da2 everyone is bi, with the exclusion of specific straight dlc guy, and then in inquisition (da#3) there are eight romance options: two straight, two gay, and two bi, one male one female each, as well as two straight male race-specific options. So, quite a few options! And, like someone else said: da fandom wank can get REAL testy, and people get nasty about it, unfortunately. And the games have their flaws of course but they're lots of fun and the world has just 👌 so much potential

Honestly nowadays especially I think it's hard to find a fandom that isn't a total wankfest. The most chill fandom I can think of is like . . . Stardew Valley, where the subreddit is actually really sweet and helpful, but that's about it. Like even Animal Crossing has its embarrassments, e.g. the person who claimed Raymond was their comfort character and someone else wasn't treating him right so they had to give him up Or Else. Otherwise, especially in fandoms where the thing in question is very story and character-driven, people decide that the fandom is a circus and they are the ringmaster and thus all eyes must be upon them and their clownery. It's exhausting but what can you do except pretend you do not see it.

But anyway, thanks for the info! I've also been informed that even though the story / world continues, you play a different character each time, so I don't have to worry about getting locked into a romance in an early game and then have to deal with medieval divorce proceedings or whatever later on, so that's good. And yeah, I'm sure they do have their flaws, but so does everything else. So long as stories are made by humans, they're going to have flaws and problematic elements, because humans are flawed and problematic. If I limited myself to flawless, unproblematic pieces of media, I would have nothing left to consume.

All this said, it'll be a while before I do play it because I'm holding off on buying any new games until Legends Arceus, because I don't want to get into the same situation I put myself in with buying Monster Hunter Stories 2 before Neo: The World Ends With You's release (i.e. I didn't finish MHS2 before Neo and to this day I still haven't gone back to it oops). So it'll be a bit, but I appreciate the information nonetheless!

[elizabethrobertajones]

With how things are going, I have to wonder - did TPTB give us the Huevas as a 'there, we don't hate gay people' token and were we wrong in reading it as a subtext-to-Destiel thing? Lizbob, I'm getting desperate. The 'so introduce me' line was so - it's what you say to kids, right? And the UST is completely gone... :(

Hi there! 

Is this because of this post from the other day where the line about “twice the worries about being ganked” was put under some destiel stuff to show that Dean had in fact doubled his worries about getting ganked? And also explains why he keeps telling Cas not to do anything stupid, because he’s worried, and not because he thinks Cas is actually stupid… Buckleming dialogue or not it’s calling back to 12x10 where Dean had to clarify this for Cas and admit he can say stuff like that when he’s worried. I’m not saying it’s very nice to keep on heckling Cas instead of just saying he’s worried, although I do feel the choice of writer really waters down the nuance in how that scene could have gone which would show Dean actually learned anything from 12x10. And while Cas shouldn’t have to expect to deal with Dean caring about him this way, at least we’ve already covered this in the text :P

But anyway, to me personally I just don’t write about Destiel that I see in the show with expectations that it will go canon, not because I’m negative or wanky about it (although, usual disclaimer, of course I’m very opinionated on if it SHOULD and the obligation the show has to do what they are constantly teasing, I just separate out these two things to write about the present moment of the show and the future, one of which takes a lot of explaining and one of which is extremely one note obvious of “make it gay, you cowards”), but just that I don’t want to engage in the cycle of optimism/despair that having Destiel hopes causes, specifically because I’m a popular meta blog that writes about Destiel in the text, and also because of people like you who get their hopes up and then get hurt.

I will probably merge expectations with demands when the show is actually definitively heading towards the end and we all know it is and it’s out there on the table. In the mean time, I’m happy to let this all carry on as it’s carrying on without feeling like there is a deadline or set moment for any one thing to pay off for us. The show takes its sweet time to address things which seem OBVIOUS, for example looking at the way side characters disappear and return sometimes like 3 or 9 or 13 years after we last saw them to get some closure on something or other. And it takes them years to chase down a main arc idea and pin it successfully. And some of the reason character development stuff links so well back to season 1 is because the progress Sam or Dean has made on it since season 1 has been in a series of recursive loops which seem to get somewhere only to be pulled back without reaching actualisation and either start again immediately or crop back up in the text much later as a character arc, starting over again as if it never really reached its conclusion. 

Dabb era has been good about excavating some of these more ridiculous concepts and putting them on some no-going-back type arcs, for example for better or worse the issues they have with Mary have *utterly* shifted ground and can never go back to the same background noise they used to be. Mary is no longer a childhood memory and enshrined as the family martyr, and as I talked about a lot over the last hiatus doing rewatches, the attempts to make her deeper/tie her into the mythology, never actually addressed a change in the way they felt about her, maybe not even realising it wasn’t healthy for them to feel that way about her for the rest of their lives in the difference between normal mourning and revenge quests etc and how that meant they could never leave her behind and move on. I mean there’s a LOT of work to be doing with them if there’s any sort of happy ending to come, but since Carver era the writing has spent so much time trying to understand why they feel bad and putting them through hell for it, and especially in Dabb era now doing work to make them recover and to explore ways they can change, that it seems really depressing to waste the good work by killing them off. So that’s a sort of broad optimism about what they’re doing :P

But that broad optimism is really as far as I’ll dare to venture about endgame, so talking about Destiel is mostly about what I see in the text and how it relates to their character arcs and how I see that informing them and therefore hopefully if there is a happy ending, the intrinsic way this relationship matters to Dean and Cas will get happy pay off as well, because of all the aspects being explored in their character arcs, their relationship ties is all together so nicely and what they would benefit from each other would cement a happy ending for them.

I can’t be completely responsible for the impression people get about what I want from canon in the stuff I reblog but I’m really hesitant to go past lines like nervously laughing and doubting what’s going on in canon as a joke about how Destiel it all looks, while trying to avoid posts that talk about how inevitable it is without some very good reasoned discussion that I agree with. I try very very hard to make this blog always toe a line of enjoying what I enjoy without trying to sell too much or sound like I’m promising something. I like a lot of stuff like re-exploring old seasons or what I did this summer over my rewatch, looking back on old canon and looking at how it has all the unwitting groundwork for the story that ended up being told, and where all the character arcs start and how they’re used in later canon etc.

I agree a theme the last few years has been digging up this character stuff and making it extremely clear or textually stating things for the first time, and especially this year coupled with themes of misinterpretation or not reading the picture correctly or working on misinformed intel. Dramatic irony has never had that much importance in telling the story either. This season has been really intelligent about these themes and last season did a LOT of stuff with characterisation to show how they understood them and old character stuff they were resolving or exploring for the sake of improving the characters. Cas got a final build up for his depression arc to lead him to the worst possible point, and he’s now on the other side of that so the only way is up. Performing!Dean got completely dragged in some episodes, especially 12x11 which did it kindly and gently, and 12x22 which just used a grenade launcher to do it :P 

There’s a lot going on but I don’t really like saying it all inevitably ends up pointing to canon reveals about Destiel, especially when that’s the most contentious thing and really hurts a lot of people to build up expectations like that, and it makes people angry or makes them fall out of love with the story because they lose objectivity and start making angry demands about when they get their emotional pay off, even though the story is still unfolding. Stuff which is happening along the way for later character pay off is seen as trashing the character and everything they previously stood for, and it becomes miserable for everyone. I’ve seen this happen in every single faction of the fandom and it’s nothing to do with the quality of the writing or actual treatment of the character/relationship, and an awful lot to do with poorly managed emotional investment and said investment being a finite resource. It’s UTTERLY depressing to watch a fandom friend melt down and begin to hate everything you once loved and I think watching that process has a lot of toxic fall out for everyone else around them who also loves the thing, because we sympathise and we’ve been watching it in slow mo and probably agreeing with a lot of the initial problems they have before it escalates. I HATE watching that happen. I will try as hard as I can to never be responsible for causing it in other Destiel shippers, so I try to make my jokes and comments stay as much as possible on the side of not trying to imply the show has any huge Destiel plan that we’re seeing the early stages of and patience will make it bear out. Because that’s not even how I see the show anyway but sometimes things like Dean giving Cas a mixtape create a *lot* of hyperbole and I’m not emotionally responsible for you all, technically, so I am allowed to have some fun :P 

All this is to say, I’m really sorry you’re feeling desperate and have been reading everything as signs we’re definitely getting Destiel, because there are no signs we’re definitely getting it, but there’s also no signs we’re definitely NOT getting it, and a whole bunch of murky grey area including an entire show worth of supportive subtext, character interaction, main text and plot arcs which back up the *existence* of Dean and Cas being madly in love with each other. The wank comes when you spend all your time harping on one or the other extreme, assuming everything is signs or proof/not proof.

I think the recent storytelling has been extremely positive towards Destiel and put an awful lot of it into the text, to extremes which have never really happened before: season 7 with dead Cas used that to get some understandable angst out of Dean, but it constantly emphasised how everything sucked, Cas had of course betrayed Dean and caused all their problems, both personal and mytharc, and so resentment and anger were mixed with grief, and for the most part as much as stuff was happening to them emotionally, the episodes weren’t intrinsically structured around showing what the grief had done to Dean, or that he stopped functioning without it. Compare the kid gloves about what Dean does in 7x03 killing Amy, and how it tentatively links back to Cas but only when Dean admits that he’s had a hard time trusting anyone after Cas, to Dean vs Jack culminating in Dean screaming in Sam’s face about how Cas’s death has hurt him and he can’t unsee it on Jack. 

And then of course the whiplash on getting Cas back, which Dean never had in season 7, and at best 8x08 was that episode - like a year after Cas was alive again and a whole fresh round of death and guilt and Cas coming back later so in a completely different context. And still nowhere near as good as what happened in 13x06 because there was still a lot of tentative TFW rebuilding to do in 8x08, while by now it’s completely accepted they’re a family unit and it’s been textually stated several times and 12x12 especially was tuned to showing how absolutely final that statement is. There’s no need to be tentative when Cas comes back now - Dean can just let go and enjoy himself for as long as that lasts.

I’ve been answering asks about the UST being gone since I’ve been in fandom, like, season 10, and I do kinda think that the heyday is ONLY seasons 4-6, after which Cas and Dean actually like each other and their relationship moves to more comfortable ground, and romantic tension and coding is way more the order of the day from Carver era onwards. There’s a few things like the boner scene or Dean in the car in 9x06. TBH 13x06 was the first time in ages I thought we’d actually had a scene where the two of them were having sexual chemistry, in the obvious mirror scene to the car in 9x06 bit, but also the entire underlying joke about Dean’s ‘cowboy fetish’ that Cas knew about from season 6, his entire reaction to it, including complaining that Dean made him wear the hat but then voluntarily playing along *for Dean* on their way into the crime scene, his FACE while doing that, and Dean’s reactions to Cas through all this. For the most part they’re considerably softer and more hesitant with each other and that involves much less interaction right up in each others’ faces and much less frustration which then translates to UST quite easily as well as being regular old tension. 

In addition to that, the “i do” and that hug scene apparently convinced people in living rooms across the world that Dean and Cas had been about to kiss and that it was horrifically romantic, and a fake out which genuinely shook people into seeing something going on there who had not previously seen it and even actively disbelieved their shipper friends and family. Of course that’s all down to how Dean and Cas look at each other as they come in for the hug, so their magnetic attraction to each others’ faces is still an ongoing issue :P 

Their interactions are being told in a pretty different way these days, which includes a lot of romantic stuff which is far more overt, and in making their relationship intrinsic to the plot and to each others’ own feelings, all of which I’ve written about so much lately because, well, it’s the main thing going on around here :P I actually feel like this is an extremely good time for if you care about their relationship, to get it in the story as a powerful force and important piece of the story. Things like the issue of clarification - I vs we, and need vs want - are coming back around as themes and that means the issues they’ve caused between Dean and Cas are being addressed or examined again, hopefully to some permanent end. And if not, at least so there’s a fresh examination in recent canon, although as I was saying Dabb era has been changing things in ways it’s hard to back off from later, like that Dean has repeatedly clarified to Sam that his feelings about Cas are the cause of his behavioural changes, even if he doesn’t say what those feelings are, it’s clear that they are affecting him. I mean there’s a part of me that has to read it that Dean hasn’t even realised exactly why he feels differently about Cas than Sam does, he just does… :P

Anyway I really just didn’t want to reassure you without addressing the fact I hate reassuring people things without trying to avoid causing more problems later. I don’t want people to feel strung along either by the show or by ~meta writer promises~ … which, aside from a few people who really were doing it for attention, generally seem to be from people actually just reading the text and being hopeful themselves, not trying to make a cult gathering or get attention or even just try to hurt people. I really urgently would like people to be more credible about where their hopes are coming from and how to feel about it. 

Not to say that you should stop believing everything you hear meta writers say, by a long shot, but to evaluate how likely you feel the speculation that comes from that can be, and how much you do and don’t agree with the analysis they make. And if you agree with the analysis and do see that all the Destiel stuff people point out IS in the show, then you can see that it’s there or not, and decide how you feel about what the show is doing with it as a separate thought. I’d rather not get caught up in pt.2 of it because it’s just frustrating and depressing at this stage of the game, but pt.1 is fascinating to me, it doesn’t detract for me personally to have it not unambiguously stated, and whether Destiel does become unambiguously stated or not I don’t think *any* of the Destiel analysis I agree with/have made is *wrong* because that reading is freely available to make, in large print text and accompanying audiobook >.>