#at least that’s what I’m pretty sure GRRM is doing

[maastrichtiana]

lordship tied to land holdings and castle seats, that are run by the lord’s wife

i’m not a medievalist but the whole feudal gender thing in asoiaf is interesting because it really feels like the peak masculine ideal is being a lord which itself is gatekept by class and birth order within the upper class. so if you did not inherit your way into wielding systemic violence over others as a first son you as a second son have to compensate by being really really good at individual violence. but to only benefit from systemic violence without at all demonstrating skill in individual or systemic violence is a female trait. these people are insane

[juniorfor2]

It’s kind of insane to me that the ONLY reason that people watch HotD is because of Nettles. According to them, if Nettles is cut out, then “what’s the point of watching the show, I only watched because I wanted to see Nettles dunk on VaLyRiAn SuPrEmAcY.”

I mean, they seriously only watch a series that they KNEW would be about the Targaryens, was focused on Targaryen history and themes, with a Targaryen protagonist that spans 30 years, just for a girl that’s barely part of the book.

It’s not even confirmed that she’s non-Valyrian!!! It’s a theory made up by FANS, I’m fairly sure it isn’t even suggested by GRRM. Glydayn, Munken, and Mushroom are definitely racist, but their only theories are to disparage the idea that Nettles could be viewed as pretty or accomplished because of her skin color. Their ideas were used to suggest that Nettles was a whore, or to then backtrack to say that she was “a skinny brown girl” that oBvIoUsLy couldn’t be attractive.

Nettles is definitely important, but (at least in my opinion), her ambiguity is the most important thing about her story. How others perceive her, not just in-universe by maesters, but by the fandom is more important than her origins. How the audience allows their theories around her to be guided by the racist thoughts of maesters, all while claiming that they themselves aren’t racist, is more important her actions.

Even the HOW of people deciding whether or not Nettles was Daemon’s lover or his daughter, is more important than the actual truth of the matter.

In the actual story, Nettles really doesn’t do that much. Her main thing is being loyal and flying around with Daemon to hunt Aemond. The only conflict she (supposedly) causes is between Daemon and Rhaenyra. And while it actually is fair criticism to say that Nettles’s story only being important as black girl causing conflict between two white people is a bad plotline, people then using a person of color to alienate and insult other people of a foreign culture is not ok. People conflating GRRM’s unfortunate internalized racism (that yes, he tries to go against, but occasionally fails at) with the personalities of the characters themselves is not ok.

People need to let their ideas of Nettles go. She’s important, and she certainly should not merge with Rhaena as if black women are interchangeable, but she is not an avenue of debunking Targaryen “supremacy”. HOTD is racist, but I honestly think that the way some people are reacting is almost more racist/xenophobic itself.

[evax3]

Heya! I wanted to ask you… do you have any hope that the books will come out and we’ll finally know the real ending? And what do you think Jon and Dany’s endings will be? I keep on being optimistic we will get the real ending. And all I need for it to be perfect is Dany and Arya and Jon (my three favorites) surviving and being able to find peace and happiness after the hells they all suffered. As much as I want Dany and Jon to be King and Queen, I’ll settle for them living. But what do you think?

Hello my friend, thank you for the ask!! :)

regarding the books, I'm sure we’ll get to know the ending some day, one way or another. Whether they'll ever be published, I have little hope, but never say never. At least I assume that after his death there will be a "GRRM – Unpublished Works" collection or something similar in which we can read chapters from Winds and Dream of Spring as well as many other short stories about our faves. 

As for Dany and Jon’s ending, I highly recommend @hamliet 's meta’s. I love reading all of them but especially the analysis of Dany as a romantic heroine. It tells us so much about what we should expect for her endgame and why (it all makes so much sense!!). 

I assume Dany will set King’s Landing on fire. Not intentionally, but because her father hid the Wildfire under the city and Daenerys will accidentally blow it up with her dragons fighting against f!Aegon. I don't see her killing innocent people as some collateral damage, but I see her fighting her enemies with fire and blood (which imo makes all the difference).

The incident in KL will throw her into a crisis and I think only with Jon's help she’ll get out of it and pick herself up to fight with him against the real enemy aka the Others (I’m sure their decision to form an alliance is one of the last scenes of TWOW and in ADOS they’re already a couple romantically involved with each other). 

So I guess Winds will be about Dany conquering Westeros while Jon is a little lost, has to deal with the aftermath of his mutiny and then later his parental reveal, while A Dream of Spring will be more about their relationship and the Battle for the Dawn. I think Dany will be Azor Ahai and save Westeros with Jon by her side, but no one will thank them for that because of what happened before in KL (and also the general prejudice against their family). And that this is one of the essential elements that make the ending so bittersweet (as George has indicated). 

She and Jon will be the true heroes, the bastard and the exile, but no one is going to see it or give them credit for that.

GRRM describes himself as a romantic writer and romantic literature is shaped by the fact that it focuses more on the inner conflict than the external conflict. So I assume that all 3 (Arya, Dany and Jon - who are also my favorites) are mainly dealing with their identity crises in the following books. What is their purpose in this world? How do people's expectations fit with their own desires and ambitions? By the end of the story, these questions should be answered.

I think Arya is pretty safe, when it comes to staying alive. I'm not quite so sure about Jonerys/Snowstorm. As much as I want it, because of course I wish for a HEA for my favorite ship, I actually don't see the two of them ruling together. I think they'll fall in love and Dany will get pregnant (because them having a family with each other has been hinted at way too much and unlike D&D, George isn't just doing that only as "clickbait"). But my fear is that only one of them will be able to see their child grow up… 

And I'm not even sure what I actually want for their endgame if anything were possible? Probably to pack up their baby, Ghost and the dragons and then emigrate, lol. Maybe to Lys or somewhere warm? But they both have too much of a hero complex to ever pull that off ❤️

[finitefall]

Rhaenyra, tyranny and misogyny

I’ve got a few messages after talking with nonnie here and here. Instead of answering multiple times, I’m gonna answer in this post and say what I personally think about Rhaenyra, calling her a tyrant, and how people see it as misogyny. The following messages are from four different anons:

Anon #1: The thing about Rhaenyra “being a tyrant” is also that we’re literally being given the story as told by the “victors” and I don’t think we’re intended to take the words of Fire and Blood as unbiased documentation. She’s framed that way because of how Westerosi nobles view women (and targaryens) not because of how George views women. There’s *clearly* a deliberate POV being employed there

Anon #2: Different anon but I've also got issue with the word "tyrant" being thrown around for Rhaenyra. While it may fall in line with some limited official definition in like literally 1-2 of her latest actions, it is kind of tasteless to ascribe the term that fits actual Hitler in RL or at least the actual Maegor in ASOIAF, and all the intentionally, unrepentant cruel and inhuman actions they entail.... with a woman tragically described as mistreated and betrayed so much that assuming the worst and lashing out has become more natural to her than otherwise.

Anon #3: I admit I also agree a little bit with that anon,the way George wrote Rhaenyra feel a bit misogynistic,specially the Nettles thing and the implications,it’s something many people have said since F&B launched, and also how he favored Daemon to an extreme,for example he was the instigator of a heinous crime,killing a child,but the text never punished him in the slightest,on the contrary,he got the girl,had a last honorable deed and died a hero,he was definitely George’s favorite lol in comparison to Rhaenyra’s end the favoritism is staggering and I can’t help to think it’s a bit sexist.

Anon #4: It’s a disappointing you can’t see how GRRM was/is misogynistic in some aspects,and Rhaenyra was clearly an example of it. The man is an old dude it’s not very difficult to see where he is coming from,the story is misogynistic against Rhaenyra is not a woke point?is the truth, George felt more comfortable giving everything to Daemon and humiliating the female protagonist till the end,so feminist! He is probably gonna do the same to Dany.

Rhaenyra started as a good person, as far as we can tell. Known as The Realm’s Delight, she was described as proud, stubborn, quick to anger and never forgetting a slight. None of this made her a bad person: there’s absolutely nothing wrong with those traits and there are far worse people to deal with. She didn’t do anything wrong before the Dance: the story is literally about her being usurped because she was a woman. Alicent and all the Greens commited treason because of misogyny, and GRRM is very clear about this both during the Dance and in the ASOIAF novels (where Stannis calls Rhaenyra the usurper while Arianne knows she was the usurped). He’s not being very subtle about the fact that Rhaenyra was usurped because of the Greens' ambition, their greed, and of course their misogyny.

“She was my only daughter, and they killed her. They stole my crown and murdered my daughter, and they shall answer for it.”

Rhaenyra and the Blacks had every reason to not accept this treason. The Greens started the war, not them. The only right side in the Dance of the Dragons is the Blacks, not because of who our favorite characters are. Because it’s not a “who’s your favorite war criminal?” story, it’s the story of a woman who was usurped because she was a woman. I’m not sure we’ve read the same books from GRRM if you didn’t see the misogyny being pointed out. Rhaenyra’s line survived, while Aegon’s line didn’t. The message is pretty clear here too. GRRM didn’t make the Green’s line go extinct without reason while having Daenerys, a heroine in the ASOIAF novels, being Rhaenyra’s descendant.

Rhaenyra lost all her children except her two sons with Daemon. She could have been a good Queen, but her traumatic experiences led her down the wrong path. Can anyone say they would have been better, done better than her after what happened? Unless it happened to us, we can’t. Rhaenyra isn’t an example of what happens when a woman gets to power and let it destroy her, she’s an example of how someone can be destroyed and become a tyrant after going through too much. They didn’t exactly have therapy back then.

What’s a tyrant? Let’s just look at the definition. According to the Cambridge dictionary, a tyrant is a ruler who has unlimited power over people, and uses it unfairly and cruelly. According to the Oxford dictionary, a tyrant is a person who has complete power in a country and uses it in a cruel and unfair way. The other dictionaries all have a similar definition. Did Rhaenyra, as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, can be considered as the one having the most power over people and in her Kingdoms? I’d say yes. Was she cruel and unfair during her reign? I’d also say yes. Unless, of course, we decide that no, the taxes and fees making the people of KL suffering, the executions and feeding corpses to dragons, the heads upon the spikes above the city gates, ordering the murders of Addam and Nettles without proof of treason, is neither cruel or unfair. Or was entirely made up, in which case we can’t criticize HOTD writers for saying the events in the books aren’t reliable and that’s why they changed so much about, say, Alicent.

GRRM made no secret of Daemon being his favorite character, but he’s not framed as a villain for the simple reason that we already know he can do awful things. Rhaenyra was a good person at first while Daemon has always been a morally grey character. Literally no one is surprised by Blood & Cheese. We know what Daemon is capable of, especially when it comes to avenging his family. Note also that while his death is seen as heroic because he finally avenged Luke, he also dies as a kinslayer. I’m not gonna shed a single tear on Aemond, but being a kinslayer is literally the worst thing one can possibly be in Westeros. Who else is a kinslayer? Aemond and Aegon II. Not exactly good guys.

Rhaenyra’s story is a tragedy. I love her. She’s an interesting character as well as someone you still feel for no matter what she's done during her reign. She could have taken a bath with the blood of her enemies and it wouldn’t change the fact that we have absolutely no reason to believe she would have become a tyrant if not for the Greens’ treason. She could have decided to eat with corpses at her table and I would still feel for her and curse her half-brother for killing her, especially in this atrocious way. She could have done literally every cruel, atrocious thing you can think about: she’s still the usurped, Aegon II is still the usurper, the Greens are still greedy, misogynistic traitors, meaning the Blacks are still the right side of the Dance of the Dragons.

Now, if you believe GRRM is gonna write Daenerys the same way... it would mean throwing the previous ASOIAF novels out the window. Daenerys has already proven that even after all she’s endured, she would not become a tyrant. Her story is the exact opposite of a heroine turned villain: she could have, but she didn’t. And besides both of them being Targaryen Queens, Dany and Nyra just don’t have much in common at all. Daenerys Targaryen is literally one of the characters GRRM loves to write about the most (the first one is Tyrion, then it’s a tie between Dany and Arya).

[alaynestcnes]

how do you think the series is going to end? obviously jonsa ;) but do you think it'll be similar to the show?

I go backwards and forwards tbh. I do feel like where most of the characters ended up in the show is probably a good indicator for their book ending (I think D&D got told the broad strokes of GRRMs ending but they just got too turned around w what they wanted/thought would make good TV).

More under the cut bc I rambled on for longer than I thought I would 😵���💫

I do think Jonsa will be canon in some capacity and to me there’s only really two realistic routes;

1. Tragic star-crossed lovers who are tortured by their forbidden feelings (a la the original outline). Honestly if it goes this way I can see their romance being a subplot that isn’t entirely focussed on tbh. GRRM is a romantic but it’s usually subtle - look at Ned/Cat, Jaimie/Brienne. Even with Robb/Jeyne, it was bare bones. These are definitely love stories, but the love is so truthfully woven into the workings of the narrative that it’s barely a plot point itself. Jon and Sansa will have the same, where it’s there and unspoken and painful and probably motivates some of their decisions, but it’s not some epic Romeo and Juliet thing that consumes them. If they do have this plot where they have feelings, I doubt they’ll end up together (I don’t think we can have both). It’ll probably end like the show with everything unspoken/unresolved with Jon exiled or dead and Sansa on the throne.

2. Ned/Cat 2.0 political marriage. I generally lean more in this direction. Jon and Sansa are both political characters and their plots/desires are leading them to Winterfell. They are both positioned to be leaders of the North - it makes sense that it would be together. I think there will be Northern conspiracies that will lead to a politically fractured North with the various Starks becoming figureheads for the different remaining houses vying for power (Manderly wanting Rickon on the Northern throne, Petyr/the Vale wanting Sansa, and miscellaneous others wanting the newly resurrected Jon). Rickon will probably die (I hate it but I can’t see another way for him 😭), his followers split between Jon and Sansa’s camps. Targ reveal will happen, which will lessen Jon’s claim. But he’s a god-like figure after his resurrection so he’ll still have followers and he’ll know he needs the power of the entire united North to fight the WW. Makes sense that some advisors would suggest a marriage instead of tearing the North apart, especially with Jon wanting to go off to face the WW threat immediately. Sansa will want peace and she’ll see sense in marrying a man she knows (who I’m sure LF (if he’s alive atp) will imply that Jon will accidentally die in the war anyway and leave it all to Sansa). So they get married to unite the North, despite being essentially strangers atp. As above, I don’t think we’ll get much of an actual love story, but they are suited to each other and I think by the end of the series we’ll come very full circle with Ned/Cat ‘love didn’t just happen, we built it’. And ofc with the final book being A Dream of Spring (i.e rebirth, new life, hope) I’m betting on a Stark baby.

Idk about the other characters ngl I don’t spend half as much time theorising on them 🙃

Jon will likely seek out Dany to face the WWs. I think it’ll be pretty similar to the show where she’ll be split between wanting to help and wanting to take KL. Maybe a bit of the politcal!Jon theory here to convince her (we do need that betrayal for love, which I 100% believe is Jon - maybe with him knowing the war/their plan will likely be her doom but he goes through with it to protect the North). Ultimately, I think she’ll die fighting the WWs in like an epic sacrifice. BUT while she dies, at least one of her dragons will survive. Which means that while Dany saved the world, she also doomed them to another terrible fate - having a grown, enraged, untamed dragon loose upon the world with the only woman able to control them gone. So, even though the WW will be defeated, in the remaining/following book there’s still a Big Bad to cause drama. I like the idea of Dany’s end being conflicting - she dies a true hero but also her great act is her worst act and has long lasting consequences for the survivors.

Cersei will probably try to capture Drogon in her greed for power and in doing so causes KL to burn (Drogon’s fire + all that hidden wildfire). This is actually based on nothing but vibes haha but I like her end being caused by her own hand and greed, reaching for more when she could have lived with the power she already had. I’m choosing to ignore the Valonquar bc idc I’m not GRRM.

Bran King of Westeros bc why not.

Arya’s ending has me lost. I think she def meets Lady Stoneheart and it will make her question her own pursuit for revenge. I don’t think Arya’s story is meant to end with her becoming a heartless professional assassin dedicating her life to killing the enemies of her family; she is so much more than that. Seeing LSH will make her witness the horror of being entirely consumed by hate and bloodshed. She’ll kill LSH out of mercy and it will also symbolise her putting to rest her own anger and desire for revenge. Idk where she’ll finally end up tho so she gets a wildcard and can do whatever she wants.

Andddd all of this is subject to change on any given day. I’m just rocking w whatever feels right atp bc god knows we’re never seeing Winds.

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

You know something I would love to see? Arya and Dany having a beautiful sister relationship. Sure they’ll likely be cautious and skeptical at first meeting but then as they get to know each other, they find out how much they have in common. How they are feminist non conformists. How they love the common people. And they both have an affinity for wearing practical clothes and also being barefoot. If Dany does become Queen (all I need is for her and Arya and Jon to survive) I would headcanon Dany and Arya making it an annual event where they both go around the Kingdoms (and even to Essos) and they go and play with the children and mingle with the smallfolk. PS: To spite Stansas I would love to see Sansa whining about Arya choosing some “Targaryen” something (I don’t know what insult Sansa would use) over her own sister. Arya grabs Dany’s hand and says “Dany is my sister”. I truly feel like Arya would find in Dany the sister she never had with Sansa. I’m not saying Arya doesn’t care about Sansa… but their relationship is a pretty bad one. And she would have a real sister relationship with Dany.

Hello @whitedragonwolf4961 !

Yeah, there is no denying that Arya loves Sansa and that Sansa loves Arya, because they are family, but it seems quite obvious that while they love each other, they don't actually like each other. And honestly they have a lot of issues to get through before their relationship could even begin to become repaired, especially if it's revealed that it was Sansa who snitched to Cersei about them leaving. Truthfully, I don't think their relationship can even begin to be repaired until Sansa feels contrite for the things she has said and done to Arya, and take responsibility for her actions, and actively want to make things better. People in this fandom love trying to make it seem as if Arya is the only one to blame and that she needs to apologize, but Arya has already felt bad and apologized to Sansa, felt guilty for her behavior, and tried to make things better. So it really comes down to Sansa on if their relationship can be repaired or not. But considering Sansa's lack of development so far, I feel doubtful it will happen, and that's honestly okay. It's perfectly realistic for people not to get along with some members of their family and not be close to them. So while it would be nice if they repaired their relationship, it's not out of the realm of possibility that GRRM won't do that and will instead have Sansa retain her narcissistic tendencies.

I do feel like Arya and Dany will get along once they get past their initial distrust/wariness, as they really are so similar, but if Dany and Sansa meet I have doubts that they would become close at this stage in Sansa's development. Sansa does have misogynystic prejudice against girls and women who don't conform perfectly after all, and I think it's safe to say that Dany probably wouldn't like Sansa's classism at the very least. I think they'll try to get along, if they meet, but I don't think they'll be friends, which could in the end cause some negative feelings on Sansa's end, especially if she sees Arya and Dany getting along too well for her liking. But of course this is all predicated on Sansa's current development, which could change by the time they meet, most likely in ADOS. For all we know, Sansa could get as much positive character development in TWOW, as Dany did in AGOT. It just depends on what GRRM has in store. :)

Honestly, if Dany and Jon do get together in the future and marry, I could totally see Arya calling Dany her goodsister, regardless of how Arya's relationship with Sansa is going.

Dany and Jon being King and Queen of the 7K, would be the ideal ending with Arya residing on their council, and married to Gendry. And considering the dragons, it seems likely that they would have frequent progresses across the kingdoms. I really hope Arya is able to get a ride on one of the dragons with a dragonrider before the series ends. Of course, I'm not confident that this will be the ending, considering Bran's part to play in the end, but at this point I'm not at all convinced that any of the Key Five will die by the end, because then what exactly was the point of all that development? Especially with the characters learning things we know would be more useful to the endgame, than to the Long Night or the Battle for the Dawn? To me it just doesn't make sense, and I think GRRM is too smart to think that the only way an ending could be bittersweet, with tragic elements thrown in (after all he loves tragic romances), is by killing characters, especially with no real goal than to cause misery for the other characters. I've spoken with you before how GRRM could employ these elements in more imaginative ways while still maintaining the sweet and the bitter in a bittersweet ending. I'm also not convinced that Bran won't turn out to be more of a King of King's figure than the actual only king of the 7K. He could be a Pope-like figure, or a Emperor instead, especially in the scenario that several kingdoms may become independent again, or that the land beyond the Wall will become part of the 7K with the immersion of the Free Folk culture coming south. Of course this is all just speculation, and as soon as TWOW comes out and I read it, all my theories could shift completely. Hopefully GRRM delivers us with a copy of TWOW by the end of 2024. :D

[alleyskywalker]

Theyne vs Tristheon vs Tristheyne?

Ahhh anon I’m so sorry it took me forever  to answer this! I wasn’t really sure what you had wanted to know/wanted me to talk about but I wanted to give a satisfying response and of course just…ended up spinning my wheels for a bit agh.

My OTPs! My endgame OTPs! At least two of them and then the third that’s polycule that smooshes them together, and I have to admit that while I’m pretty picky about poly stuff, it can be a very satisfying way to solve ship conflicts if you think the three characters would work all three together.

Both Theyne and Tistheon absolutely come with hitting certain id things for me which are specifically: 1) wanting Theon to get a soft and happy endgame, 2) wanting Theon to finally be in a relationship (not necessarily a romantic one generally, but for the purposes of shipping yes) where he is valued and prioritized and loved, and 3) a special bonus if the relationship is with a character who is also ironborn or is not so attached elsewhere that they can’t join Theon in an endgame on the Iron Islands where the move wouldn’t feel too unfair to them. It’s not that I require all my ships to be Soft or healthy or Endgame Material, even with Theon, but I think with him especially this is a desire that I do like to have fulfilled.

Theyne is obviously the ship with the most canon support and is a ship that’s kind of int hat borderline area of…I don’t really think George would let me have this, like I don’t really see him going this way. Like him just letting Theon be alive and at peace and hopefully in nice/comfortable circumstances at the end would already be a fucking victory. I don’t think we’re getting a romance, especially this one, and eh. Overall from a canon perspective that might be better. Also, it would…difficult to do a Theyne romance within the scope of the books due to the age gap. I’m really not very precious about ages and age gaps in fiction, especially historical/fantasy fiction like this where the most of the kids and teenagers all act like 3-4 years older than they apparently are supposed to be, and still I usually never have anything overly romantic happen with Theyne until several years post-Dance.

So yea I don’t see this having a chance at being canon or anything but like…it could be. Like very seriously, if GRRM was a different writer, if this was a slightly different type of series…it’s written very romantically. Not in the sense that the characters have romantic feelings for each other but in that the themes and tropes and imagery around this relationship feel very High Romance to me. (While also being just subverted enough, just gritty and complicated and non-played-straight enough to make this ship actually interesting and soul-destroying to me jfglsdf. Have I mentioned recently I’m a hard sell on het?)  I wrote a bit about what I love about Theyne here, but the summary version is that it’s very much about significant common experiences, the past coming around full circle with the present, the seeing the truth of/about each other when others don’t, the mutual dependency and being able to offer each other the love and future and understanding that they both need. (And a freedom from the Starks…that too, though that’s something Theon needs a lot more than Jeyne.)

Not that…this relationship would necessarily be free of angst or any conflict. They’ve both suffered a lot of trauma and would have individual needs that could be difficult to handle for a partner at times. It’s unclear if Jeyne is aware that Theon took Winterfell (her home, after all) in a conquest for a “foreign” power – which, regardless of anything else, naturally brought violence into the life of its people – or that he killed two kids, whether Bran and Rickon or not. Depending on whether she already knows this information or not, it might be a starting discovery that she may not take well. Theon was also forced to perform a non-consensual sex act on her. He had no real will in the situation, granted, but he was still the tangible tool of her abuse, which she doesn’t seem to blame him for but, again, if one wished to fill this ship with angst and possible dysfunction, the groundwork is there. And like…would they have things in common? Like normal, everyday, happy things?

But like, overall, when I’m shipping this and daydreaming about it, I’m very much seeing it as a Soft endgame ship with cliché marriage and all that, with lots of tenderness and love for Theon (for both of them) ❤

In comparison, Tristheon is of course very reliant on headcanons. These characters haven’t really interacted and to the extent they have, it’s mostly Theon having a couple of snarky, not very nice thoughts about Tris being Asha’s pet. It’s unclear how well and from when/where they know each other. Tris is also a minor character and I certainly live in fear that GRRM could go in some unpleasant direction with him. But on the other hand, what we can extrapolate of his personality is promising: Tris truly seems like an idealistic and romantic person – a little too much so for the Islands, if Asha’s assessment is to be trusted – who’s practically made of loyalty and devotion, someone who’s capable of faithfulness, steadfastness and commitment. His naivete regarding his relationship with Asha is sad, but it’s not meanspirited (and people’s contempt on this account is moronic and heartless, imo) – he hasn’t seen her for years, since he was forbidden from seeing her but her father while they were in the middle of an affair. She doesn’t actually personally reject him until their first scene. The fact that he’s unable to switch off his feelings for her immediately as though it’s a fucking light switch is actually to his credit.

Anyway, what this has to do with Tristheon is that…this is the kind of soft engame boyfriend I want for Theon. The kind of person who, if he does develop genuine feelings, would be a devoted and loving partner, the sort who could be selfless and understanding with all the difficulties that Theon will likely have in re-adjusting to life and re-learning/practicing certain things, the limitations he might have. (How miserable is a world without modern medicine…) This is also someone who might have common childhood memories with Theon, a common cultural background and understanding. Someone who might just have similar hobbies with him lol. But they might also be able to connect on a level of mutual understanding when it comes to not completely fitting in with their culture, what with Tris being better adjusted and yet still “too sweet” for the islands to an extent. They would also be very able to give each other exactly what the other would want to receive and vice versa, i.e. Tris, I think, really wants to be needed while Theon maybe thinks he wants to be needed but really what he wants/needs is to be accepted and unconditionally loved.

I think I do also enjoy/allow Tristheon to skew a little angstier than Theyne – in part because that’s always kind of how I am with slash, I guess, but also because Jeyne is also a character I guess I want to protect, whereas Tris someone who can take on a bit more angst xD Tristheon allows, for me, more explorations in themes of Theon’s fitting in with the ironborn, dealing with his past failures (intentional or not, understandable/justifiable or not) in leading them/being their prince, the somewhat more grittier and hurt/comfort inclined side of his post-trauma issues, and putting to rest the ghost of Robb Stark, who’s relationship to/with Theon I see as in many ways a contrast to how I imagine Tristheon as a ship.  (I talked some before about the Tristheon vs. Throbb contrasts here, although in the context of a specific fic, but it applies generally.)

There are also some possibilities to explore a bit of role-reversal in the Supportive Boyfriend Realm, in that Tris would possibly have a certain amount of trauma potentially remaining after such a blunt crash of all his hopes and dreams re: Asha, that were clearly based on a romantic worldview that, well, is naïve in a some similar ways Sansa’s pre-ACOK worldview is naïve, and yet he’s managed to carry this idealism into adulthood. And this disillusionment then comes at a really shit time too, what with the war, his elder brother dying, his father’s murder….

Tristheyne – ahhh I’m excited that you came up with a shipname for it ❤ This is like…what if I don’t have to choose between the two OTPs? :D I haven’t actually thought about this layout too much; I think I might have requested it once for an exchange? But it’s a very soft concept to me? I think Tris/Jeyne would be a very cute and soft ship – Tris is just great boyfriend material, you can fight me. Yea, yea, he needs to get over his teenage first love and realize his romanticism is very overwrought but…otherwise, again, like Theon, Jeyne could use the faithfulness, kindness and affection. I do worry that with all three of them having various levels of significant trauma and issues, including on the romantic/relationship front, jealousy born of insecurity could infect a poly arrangement... But it’s fanfic! We don’t have to let it!

Anyway, anon, I don’t know what you actually wanted me to talk about. This all came out very rambley, I fear, but thank you! I love my children 🤍💙💛🖤💚🤍

[bitter-post-millennial]

So im gonna go through this point by point:

1. I agree with you on the first paragraph whole heartedly. Disregarding Viserys’ very public want for a son- Rhaenyra’s grown up in a pretty stable household by Westerosi standards. Shes loved by both her parents (side eyeing Viserys hard in the first episode), she’s got a best friend (fruity as fuck) that she spends her days with, she’s got a sick dragon that she rides, all things considered a pretty good kid.

2. She made the love marriage to daemon after faking her first husband- Laenors- death so they could be married. Their grand plan is to do this not long after Laena’s death. So with both their children dead, the Velaryons are distraught and grieving. So what do the widows of their children do? They get married not even a month or so after. These are the people who were supposed to be dedicated to their children and they spit in both corlys and Rhaenys’ faces by getting married so soon. This is not a good look to say the least.

3. I would not call Jace and Luke respectful of others. Not when they bullied Aemond. You’re gonna make the argument that they were just children but what the fuck was that at the last dinner where lucerys laughed at the pig placed in front of aemond. That doesn’t seem kind or respectful at all.

4. If we’re going by the series, which I assume we are based on your Aegon comments, we have no reason to believe that she’s making dragonstone prosper. We hear literally nothing about that. Sure you can assume that but at the end of the day, Viserys always pushed her out of the important decisions. He shut her down at every turn when she spoke up when she was cup bearer in the small council. She doesn’t have a lot of training. Granted, I’m not saying that Aegon has any, but don’t pretend that Rhaenyra is completely well rounded in this regard.

5. I’d say knows and respects are pushing it. Also who are you considering family. Are you including Valyrian descendants or are you also including their spouses. Defining this makes or breaks your point.

6. Your next point is also completely correct. Aegons only merit is that he’s the first boy. But he’s not the eldest child. Rhaenyra is.

7. In the book Aegon isn’t a rapist. Is he an unsavory individual, yes. Is he an asshole? Yes. Is he a drunk who likes to fornicate in the wee hours of the morning in flea bottom, potentially catching and giving an inordinate amount of STDs to the surrounding population? Yes. My point is that there’s a lot of other things to choose from if you want to hate Aegon, why go for the one that’s only in the show?

8. His wife is also his younger sister that he made no secret of opposing as a match. Helaena’a his little sister and has to get drunk every time they have sex because he can’t stomach it. Also, let’s not act like Aegon’s cheating is the only instance of it. Rhaenyra has three bastard children that she got by cheating on Laenor Velaryon with Harwin strong. Not only that but Laenor also cheated on Rhaenyra with ser Qarl. This is not the place to demonize cheating.

9. Again, if we’re going by the show, ALICENT WAS 15!!! SHE DIDNT MANIPULATE SHIT AT THAT AGE. She was a child being manipulated by her father. Viserys was the adult, he could’ve sent her on her way.

10.this is the part where I see that you’re nuts and you haven’t been watching the show. Helaena is shown to be a dragon dreamer. If you want to double check, read fire and blood. She says “Aemond will have to close an eye if he wants to get a dragon” and then he gets his eye gouged out and rides vhaegar. Please don’t be obtuse,

All in all you do have some good points but they’re ruined by the sincere lack of consideration of why team green exists. This is not the girl boss story you want it to be. If you want that, I don’t think you should be consuming any of GRRMs material,

You have to choose ? It's true that the choice is really difficult.

On the one hand we have the king's eldest daughter with two parents of Targaryen blood. Her father appointed her his heir before the Seven Kingdoms and her mother was a true Queen who inspired respect and love. There was no doubt that she loved her daughter more than anything.

An heir who made a love marriage to a Prince Targaryen, who is the most feared man in Westeros and probably Essos. After so much suffering they are finally reunited and are in love with each other.Both are dragon riders.

They have children who are educated and respectful of others, whom they truly love. A true loving family.

An heir with a proven track record in managing and making Dragonstone prosper.

Every member of their family knows and respects the traditions of the Taragaryen line.

On the other hand, we have the king's second child, whose only claim to the throne is that he is a boy.

Who is a serial rapist, who abuses his power over the weak, who takes pleasure in watching starving children fight each other like animals.

Who cheats on his wife, who has several bastards he doesn't even care for, abandoning them in the Street of Silk.

Who has a mother who uses him as a pawn to steal a throne to which the Hightowers have no right.

A mother who manipulated a grieving man into crawling into bed with her on her father's orders. And we all know what that kind of woman is called. Who hides behind a virtue she doesn't possess and takes the liberty of judging others, she's the worst hypocrite there is.

Her children are only there to serve her thirst for power (three psychopathic sons and a daughter who has nothing exceptional and no, she never had the gift of being a dreamer - you've got to stop with all this nonsense!).

A woman who's bitter about her life and all the bad decisions she's made. A woman who is jealous of Rhaenyra's marital and maternal happiness.

Who, even though she's an adult, is still under the control of her pimp father.

So yes the choice is definitely a difficult one.

[shadowhunterssizzy]

Not to be dramatic because i’m fed up with this man, but if GRRM can post monthly updates on his blog talking about his writing process i guess BB can take care of their readers/fanbase and say something about upcoming books. Like this old man is on my sh*t list for making me have gray hair at this point but at least he’s been almost kind of honest and told his readers indirectly that his writing it’s taking a lot of time because he’s a gardener writer. He knows his audience is frustrated with him and while he’s not really open about the state of the last book (apart from the chapters that are done), he’s been more direct with his fanbase about the winds of winter. Which is something that, compared with SJM/BB and the state of her fandom, is something that i can appreciate. No hate towards sarah, i can wait 3 years for a book (god knows i’ve been waiting 9 for GoT) but some transparency would be really appreciated.

GRRM aside, there are a lot of popular writers who are really open about their upcoming books. Holly Black, Stephanie Garber, Raven Kennedy, Tracy Deonn... all of them are amazing authors with upcoming books lined up and ready. And while authors don’t owe us anything and surely, they don’t have to be 24/7 on social media or giving us info... it is pretty nice to know you’ll have updates.I would like to know who is the marketing strategist working at Bloomsbury because honestly i don’t think they know what they are doing but what do i know?

[aboveallarescuer]

I love that Daenerys Targaryen has significant parallels with all the major ASOIAF characters (as well as with many of the minor and the historical ones too). I love that comparing and contrasting her with them almost always highlights her epicness and/or how special her place in the narrative is.

Daenerys Targaryen is not just a queen, she’s a queen regnant and Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, i.e., a she-king. This means that she can be compared and contrasted not only with Cersei and Margaery or with Alysanne and the other Targaryen queens consort, but also (in fact, especially) with Stannis and Robb or with Aegon the Conqueror and the other Targaryen monarchs that succeeded him.

Daenerys Targaryen is not just a claimant to the Iron Throne like Stannis, Young Griff and Renly, she’s the only one of them who is a POV character.

Daenerys Targaryen is not just one of the POV rulers, she also happens to be the only POV ruler with power in her own right and who isn’t in a subservient position in any way (Jon is Lord Commander, but he’s also the king’s advisor and is running the equivalent of a penal colony, so the stakes are much lower than Daenerys ruling a city and dealing with opposition from half the world; Tyrion and Ned are Hands of the King; Cersei is queen regent, which means that her power stems from Tommen’s kingship). Also, Daenerys has the clearest parallels with Aragorn and her ADWD storyline was deliberately written by GRRM as a response to the lack of information from Tolkien about what makes Aragorn a good king. Finally, if one compares her ADWD storyline with Jon’s, one can see how many roles she occupies at the same time: the administrator (Jon), the monarch (Stannis), the most magical character linked to fire and prophecies (Melisandre) and the leader of the disenfranchised (Mance; note that Daenerys was forced to leave her homeland, was enslaved and currently doesn’t belong anywhere - that’s the exact same situation of many of the former slaves of Slaver’s Bay, who come from different places and have different races, ethnicities and backgrounds. Daenerys empathized with them right away because she is one of them. Her detractors may accuse her of being an outsider, but that’s because they prioritize the viewpoint of the Ghiscari slavers. The freedmen, like Daenerys, come from many different places and are outsiders to the noblemen too).

Daenerys Targaryen is an extraordinary conqueror and strategist. Aegon the Conqueror made the Westerosi bend the knee with the help of his dragons, 15-year-old Daenerys Targaryen overthrew the slave masters primarily thanks to her own battle plans, not her dragons. Robb Stark captured castles in the westerlands motivated by personal injury and his actions had local impact; Daenerys Targaryen conquered three cities motivated by her desire to abolish slavery and her actions had worldwide impact.

Daenerys Targaryen is not a typical member of her family, she is the main leader and representative of House Targaryen in a way that Jon/Bran/Arya/Sansa or Cersei/Jaime/Tyrion can’t ever claim to be. Their fathers Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister had large roles in the main story and, in the Starks’ case, their older brother Robb is more well-remembered than any of them (at least so far). Meanwhile, Daenerys’s father Aerys II was already dead before she was born and before the main story began, which allowed her to carve her own path outside of his influence. Moreover, her accomplishments are already greater than both of her older brothers’. She became the face of her family in a way that matches (in fact, even surpasses) Ned with House Stark and Tywin with House Lannister.

Daenerys Targaryen is not a typical mother, she’s both Mother of Dragons and Mhysa. Her motherhood is transcendental in a way that Catelyn’s or Cersei’s aren’t because it is not related to blood ties or to her fertility. Instead, it’s associated with her unprecedented feat of reviving an extinct species, with her ability to make up the magic as she goes along, with her leadership, with her revolutionary nature, with her compassion for thousands of people. Additionally, unlike the other major mothers, Daenerys is the only one who isn’t doomed to go “mad” despite all the losses and hardships she faced.

Daenerys Targaryen is a hero, which is especially clear when her actions are contrasted with House Stark’s, whose brand of “heroism” has been mostly to react to personal injury so far. Ned Stark participated in Robert's Rebellion because his father and brother were killed. Ned’s son Robb wanted Northern independence because his father was killed. Ned’s vassals want to start another war in the name of the Starks because of their loyalty and their outrage about the Red Wedding. Their motivations, sympathetic as they may be, have never involved the commoners. In contrast, GRRM had Daenerys empathize with the former slaves, start a war in their name and abolish slavery despite them not being associated with her through oath of fealty or blood relations or lands. She was specifically singled out by the author as the one leader who “wants equality for everyone”. It’s a stark contrast (pun intended) to the actions of the main family (at least as a unit) of the story. Sadly, it’s easier (for some fans) to root for the heroes mostly reacting to personal injury who never made any mistakes of large scale consequences since they never got to be in authority. Or for the heroes fighting against ice zombies (though, to be fair, Jon haven’t even faced them in ADWD, his main challenge was to conciliate the Free Folk and the Night’s Watch, so the stakes of his storyline are much lower when one compares his problems with Dany dealing with enemies from all over Essos raising armies to defeat her). It’s harder to do the same with the hero who takes an active stance against social injustices and who wrestles with hard questions about when political violence is justified (which never have easy, clear-cut answers) and all the negative ramifications that come with them.

Oh, and have I mentioned that Daenerys Targaryen is the character with the most overt clues of being Azor Ahai/Prince That Was Promised/Stallion Who Mounts the World? Like with the birth of the dragons, uniting all the khalasars and then leading humanity to victory against the Others will be two more unparalleled feats of hers among the characters of the current timeline. Additionally, as she becomes surrounded and influenced by prophecies, we get to see how Daenerys has a healthy relationship with them in contrast to other characters like Cersei and Stannis.

All these attributes and accomplishments are made even more remarkable when one contrasts them with what doesn’t necessarily make Daenerys Targaryen unique. Yes, Daenerys became the most powerful person in her world, but she also lived in poverty among lowborn people without the privilege of a castle or a formal education, which lends itself to comparisons with Davos and Melisandre. Yes, Daenerys is a queen, but she’s also a young girl who loves songs and stories and idealizes her family members, which lends itself to comparisons with Arya, Brienne and Sansa. Yes, Daenerys is a loving, compassionate mother, but she was also raised by her abuser throughout all of her formative years, which lends itself to comparisons with dysfunctional families like the Lannisters, the Greyjoys and the Cleganes. And so on.

Daenerys Targaryen has a very special place in the narrative, which I think should be acknowledged not only to appreciate her character, but also to understand why GRRM chose to isolate her from everyone else. Why would GRRM be confident that his readers would still be interested in Daenerys despite the fact that she doesn’t interact with any of his other major characters for most of the story? Is it merely because of her dragons, as her detractors say?

No.

It’s because, as the list above showed, Daenerys’s narrative importance and accomplishments are unmatched. They had to be. Daenerys’s character and storyline had to be connected to pretty much everyone else’s in significant, thematic ways in order for her to earn an entire continent, as well as her place as the Fire of ASOIAF. That is why Daenerys is guaranteed to have a major role in all the three main plotlines of ASOIAF. That is why Daenerys is so iconic and represents this book series in a way that no individual Stark could ever do. That is why Daenerys has to be so many things at the same time: a POV character and a claimant to the Iron Throne, a mother and the main representative of her family, the most powerful person in her world and a former slave, a ruler and a conqueror, a she-king and a young girl, quite possibly the story’s main hero and savior. That no other ASOIAF character can come close to her narrative importance or to her in-universe accomplishments is kind of the point because Daenerys had to encompass everything that is great about ASOIAF in order to carry her own storyline. And I'm excited for TWOW because, as she moves closer to Westeros, her importance will only increase more and more.

Daenerys Targaryen is like fine wine. She gets better and better the more time passes, the more you think about her and the more you realize how all the other ASOIAF storylines somehow lead back to hers. Dany’s storyline almost always looks that much more epic and greater in comparison to them because she carries her storyline on her own, so the author had to make sure she caught our attention.

[kellyvela]

Do you think it’s possible GRRM hasn’t decided who it will be yet and that’s why there’s foreshadowing for both Arya and Jon killing Dany? Your idea that he told the showrunners “a Stark kills Dany” made me wonder if that’s all he could say because he hadn’t determined which he’d choose. He has said he told them the major beats but I can’t tell how many he’s decided on or how vague he may have been when explaining it to them.

He often uses the expression: "broad strokes." He knows the broad strokes of the ending of the major characters, who's gonna die and how they're gonna die, etc.

So you can chose the version that you personally like the best. Changes are inevitable in this process. Even if the adaption is as faithful to the literary source material as it was the case with “Game of Thrones”.

—GEORGE R. R. MARTIN “Die Leute kennen ein Ende – nicht das Ende” - WELT 2020 - (Translation)

I don’t think Dan and Dave’s ending is going to be that different from my ending. But on certain secondary characters there may be big differences.

—How will George R.R. Martin’s final “Game of Thrones” books end? - 2019

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. Of course along the way I made up a lot of minor characters […]  So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

—BALTICON - 2016 [Source 1] - [Source 2] - [Source 3]

I know the end and I know what is gonna happen to the main characters anyway. There’s a few secondary characters I’m still trying to figure out, should they live, should they die, but the main characters, I’ve know for decades.

—“Interview exclusive de George R R Martin, l'auteur de Game Of Thrones” de -Le Mouv’- 2014

Do you know the ending?

I know the ending in broad strokes. I don’t know every little twist and turn that will get me there, and I don’t know the ending of every secondary character. But the ending and the main characters, yeah. And [Game of Thrones producers] David Benioff and Dan Weiss know some of that too, which the fans are very worried about in case I get hit by a truck.

—A Dance With Dragons Interview, July 2011

Then during the HBO Q&A he was asked what would happen when the TV show caught up to his writing. The audience groaned. George asked for this person to be stripped naked and tossed in the snow. He did say he felt he had a pretty decent head start, so hoped it wouldn’t come to that. He also said that if something should happen to him , that David, and DB do know how the series ends.

—DAYS OF ICE AND FIRE Q&A, November 2010

It is possible that George only knows that it will be a Stark the one who kills aunty, or maybe he knows what Stark will do it specifically but D&D changed the killer because they also create a romance. We don't really know who is going to kill aunty, but we do know, for sure, that she's gonna die. Read more here.

Also take note that back in November 2010, George himself said that D&D knew how the series ends, and that was way before their famous Santa Fe meeting in 2013.

If you follow George's interviews, you will see that at the beginning of the series he used to be more open about his ending, but with the years he started to be more enigmatic and some times he even seems to contradict himself, and I can understand that he wants to keep his ending (at least part of it) for himself until he finishes the Books, since the Show somehow spoiled it.

[daenerysstormreborn]

Didn’t even think of this angle. The whole idea that her ending up with Jon would be the thing that makes people accept that she’s important. You’re so right. I’m not sure the key five thing was meant to mock Jon specifically but more so to mock Arya and Dany fans (and honestly most Jon fans too because most Jon fans also seem to be Arya and/or Dany fans but lbr they do not go after Tyrion or Bran fans really, at least not that I’ve seen).

It is true that some people will say that Sansa isn’t an important character. Ive even been guilty of saying that she serves as a “camera” but I’ve since walked back on that and no longer believe it to be true. But their approach to countering that argument is all wrong. There doesn’t need to be a hidden Jonsa meta for Sansa to be an important character. She currently has more POV chapters than Bran! Currently, her relevance to the magical “song of ice and fire” plot line with the Others is unclear. But LF is a major player in the game and I also think her marriage to Tyrion will prove to be important.

They seem to need her to be “special” in the way the key 5 are in order for her to be interesting and important but that’s not true. She’s interesting because, in comparison to the 5, she’s very normal. Her magical companion was taken from her. A part of her was killed. She does not have any unique skills or traits that are different from the standard highborn lady (she knows plenty about the houses and their history and clearly has talents; they’re just what would be expected of her). That’s why she’s an interesting addition to the cast. Her beauty doesn’t count here as many female characters are considered to be exceptionally beautiful. As far as I can recall, every female POV character aside from Brienne and Arya has been called beautiful—and even then, Arya is called pretty on more than one occasion and is said to look like Lyanna, who is considered to be exceptionally beautiful. Sansa is fairly normal amongst westerosi highborn ladies aside from her tragic circumstances. She exists as a bit of a paradox: to the average citizen of Westeros, she seems like a girl who has it all (when viewed in a vacuum separate from the tragic series of events): she’s beautiful, of high birth, well-liked, well-read, and seems to be good at everything she does. But to the reader, when compared to the other major POV characters, she’s the black sheep. This is one of the things that endears her to me. I’m very excited to see what GRRM has planned for her because more than any other character (aside from those who were excluded from the show altogether) her arc is a big question mark. I wish there wasn’t such a divide between Sansa fans and Dany fans because I’d love to talk about it more.

Also something that drives me fucking wild is seeing people refer to Dany and Arya’s roles as patriarchal or wish-fulfillment for men. Just yesterday I saw the phrase “patriarchal power fantasy” used. I need everyone to sit down and think about what “patriarchy” means.

For the purpose of this post, and any other post I make, please know that when I say “masculine” I am referring to stereotypes associated with the male sex and when I say “feminine” I am referring to stereotypes associated with the female sex. Masculine =/= male and feminine =/= female.

Patriarchy does not refer to masculinity. It does not mean that masculine people are in power (I wouldn’t go as far as to call Dany or Arya masculine, but bear with me). Patriarchy refers to systems where MEN are the sex caste in power. Men. Not masculine people. Under a patriarchal system, women are oppressed regardless of whether or not they conform to femininity, although the less a woman conforms, the more she is punished for it. Dany and Arya’s arcs are inherently ANTI patriarchal on the simple basis that they are female and they defy what is expected of women in Westeros. They can never represent male power fantasies because they are not men. Referring to their arcs as male power fantasies is telling on yourself. You are revealing that your view of women and what we want and fantasize about is narrow. Why would you assume that only men would desire to travel across the sea and learn the ways of a secret society of assassins? Why would you assume that only men would want to wield the power of dragons and amass loyal supporters?

You are part of the problem by assuming that the desire for power is a male trait. Yes, we stereotypically associate that with men. That stereotype, and what we consider masculine and feminine as a whole, almost exclusively exist to uphold the patriarchy. Women are expected to be peaceful pacifists, complacent, quiet, because that keeps us under the boot of the male caste. Consider why so many “strong” female characters are less feminine. Is it because people feel the need to make them more like men in order to be “strong?” I say no. At least, not most of the time. If this is what you think, you’ve got the order mixed up. Skirts, dresses, and heels are impractical for fighting and limit movement a lot. Thus, it wouldn’t make sense for a competent female fighter to be wearing them. These things have been forced upon women BECAUSE they are impractical. A woman who keeps her hair short and wears no makeup and wears pants and no heels is not trying to emulate men. She is shedding femininity because femininity is impractical and time consuming. Consider WHY so many traits associated with power, leadership, and combat are considered masculine. It’s the enforcement of the patriarchy. Female characters who chase down these things and embody these qualities and do not conform to femininity are not basically men. They are women who are rejecting the system. This is antithetical to the patriarchy and to male power fantasies.

In summary: a female character who has an arc typically associated with male characters can never be a male power fantasy BECAUSE she is female.

Obligatory note that women who do conform are not lesser and their stories are not less important—they just do not challenge the patriarchy.

[juniorfor2]

what do you think of book!Rhaenyra? And Alicent?

Hello Anon. That’s a bit of a vague question, so I’ll answer it as broadly as I can and hope that I answer whatever you want to know.

I certainly like Rhaenyra and Alicent’s book counterparts far more than their show counterparts, if mostly for consistency’s sake. Both of them were also far more willing to take power, which was far better to see than HotD’s “all women are peaceful” type theme.

Rhaenyra, tbh, is a bit vague in the book, and that’s purposeful. GRRM doesn’t give us a lot to go on about her actual personality, because it would otherwise make the purpose of the Dance’s narrative - questioning why women are framed the way they are in history - a bit pointless and just too easy to figure out. We do at least know she loves to be fashionable, she seems to be a good mother, she’s quite determined in her want for the throne, and is probably closer to the older Valyrians, before Jaehaerys and Alysanne assimilated so much with the Faith. From there, almost everything else is dubious. I think we can assume that at least she was entitled, spoiled, and probably viewed herself as above the small folk, because that’s how most of the nobility viewed themselves and GRRM doesn’t try to separate her from this. The extent of this though, is rather unknown, because once Viserys died, Eustace essentially went on a spree of lying about her - just about every time he’s mentioned talking about Rhaenyra in King’s Landing, the information is so contradictory to the point of absurdity.

I personally like more of what Rhaenyra represents on a thematic level, because she has such a big narrative theme across the books. Her connection to the Amethyst Empress - both are overthrown by their brothers, one’s death brings the first Long Night, the other’s brings the death of the dragons - is incredibly important, especially for Dany’s story. The fact that a woman’s usurpation and death brought about the end of the dragons, while Daenerys, a woman, brings them back to life, is perhaps one of the best themes and connections that GRRM has made in all of his series. Rhaenyra is probably my favorite character in F&B just for that.

As for Alicent, I would never say I like her, but I do respect her in some regards. Just like Rhaenyra, she clearly wanted power, and was willing to do just about everything to get it - even if that means beefing with a 10 year old at 19, and then a 5 year old at 35ish. She was certainly committed.

Alicent is one of those characters I hate because she was willing to keep her own sex inferior to men, but I also respect because she clearly wants to rule as much as possible. Alicent is not in Rhaenyra’s position - she is not the eldest of Otto (at least I’m pretty sure) and Otto himself is not an inheritor of anything. That meant Alicent could only gain power by marrying the king, or influencing her son, and it’s pretty clear that’s exactly what she meant to do. She wielded an unprecedented amount of power as Queen - power that even Alysanne never acquired - and even once Dowager Queen she herself called the Green Council and ruled over how things would go. As far as female figures in F&B go, she was probably one of the most powerful.

On a personal level of course, I don’t like her. The bastardphobia was long recorded and known, which was disgusting. Considering how much of a bully she was as well, she’s just rather terrible as a person. I can’t really think of a personable, redeeming quality for her. She got herself into her situation, treated everyone terribly, and then had the audacity to act like her sons’ lives meant more than Rhaenyra’s, even as she begged for mercy. I just can’t like her that much.

Hope that answers your question.

[tweedfrog]

im sorry, but reading ur last couple posts it kinda sounds like you think Ned should have been more overtly racist and bc he wasn’t grrm is racist, but on the flip side giving arya prejudice thoughts also makes grrm a racist and a bad writer? like grrm for sure has dodgy bits but you’re giving him a bit of a no win scenario here. if he had made the targs black like originally planned do you think that would have been better or worse? (1/2)

ok im going to address this point by point because there is a lot of reaching and misunderstanding here

1. I am not here to present a ‘win’ scenario for GRRMs writing. I am discussing the shortcomings of the way he writes racism and yet uses racist tropes. A lot of these are as you state ‘no win’ scenarios because he decided to craft a world where racism exists while having extremely few characters of colour in important positions, AND while using racist tropes. There are many no win scenarios simply because of this tension.

2. I dont want Ned to be a more vocally racist character? And please point out where I said that Grrm was racist because Ned wasnt portrayed as having overt anti-dornish sentiment? I stated that because GRRM created a world where racism exists everything now has to be analysed bearing that in mind. It’s the same as stating that because misogyny exists in universe male characters are possibly (and likely) somewhat misogynistic and their interactions with with women and the way they treat female characters must be analysed in such a way.

Me stating that anti-dornish racism could have been a possible reason why Ned reacted less vehemently to the deaths of Elia and her children is me analysing it within the frame-work that GRRM set up. I’m using this to point out that when white authors add fantasy racism into a story they dont see the raicst implications of what they are writing because they dont understand the way racism impacts almost everything in real life.

For example in our world when non-white children or women go missing or are murdered their deaths are much less publicized than when white women or children get murdered or go missing. So yes racism affects the way that people are treated in such scenarios and when you decide to include fantasy racism in your story you have now included all of this extra stuff and need to do work to make sure that what you are writing does not perpetuate or enforce racism.

3. I literally never said arya having racist thoughts made GRRM a racist and bad writer. I have no clue where you got that. I used Aryas remark to highlight how anti-dornish sentiment clearly exists in the North because 9 year old children dont develop racist ideas in a vaccuum.

4. Where did I ever state that everything that happens to the martells was a micro aggression? I’m also confused as to where you got the word “micro” from??? Because idk about you but things like characters not really caring about the rape and death of a non-white woman and the deaths of her biracial children, a child being shunned because they “smelled dornish” and dornish women being hypersexualised in the narrative are some pretty macro aggressions.

5. Finally you deciding to ‘not discuss the essoss stuff’ is missing one of the main points of what I am trying to say. GRRM’s writing isnt racist because sometimes bad things happen to the Martells. The combination of his writing of the dothraki as savages with no introspection when compared to the free folk, the brutal killing of many martells for shock value, the contrast between the way he portrays Lyanna and the way he portrays Elia, the exotic/erotic trope he uses when writing dornish women, the fact that he hasnt named the princess of dorne while all her male counterparts have recieved names AND backstories and the fact that he made a white character the centre of the essoss plotline and a whole host of other decisions combine to make his writing....kinda racist. If it happened one time it may be a coincidence. If it happens about 10 times its a pattern.

Would it be racist if the Starks were written as inuit and then split up? Probably - given the history of murder and brutal seperation indigenous families have faced! Would making the more visibly indigenous stark children plainer while making the more white passing stark children better looking be racist? Probably - considering the way that eurocentric beauty standards are still upheld! With GRRM his issue is that he doesn't use 1 or 2 racist tropes in isolation. That could be a mistake. He uses several in succession.

Regarding the Targaryens being Black I think that if he wrote them in exactly the same manner (unlikely given how he treats other characters of colour) it likely wouldnt be racist but that the fandom probably would take it as an excuse to be racist.

So now that weve gotten through all of that straw-man criticism about my “take” I’m actually going to suggest some ways that he could have still written about fantasy racism without accidentally perpetuating it

1. If he is going to brutally kill off Elia he needs to AT LEAST have more discussions surrounding her death. Who Elia was as a person (dont just make her a sad cardboard cut out - I want to see some background on who she was outside of being an abandoned wife and mother). One story about Elia by Oberyn isnt enough. I also want to see more societal shock about Elias death because theres a weirdly small amount. The rape and murder of the crown princess shouldve been an extremely huge scandal and should have horrified many more people.

2. Theres no real way to kill off two non white children and have their white sibling be a prophetic hero without dicey implications so Aegon needs to survive and be the actual Aegon and not a secret blackfyre. We dont know if he is a secret blackfyre or not so this may just be a case of the fandom taking an excuse to be racist and running with it

3. Have more Dornish characters that dont die brutally for shock value (Elia, Oberyn, Quentyn). Furthermore when you only have 2 povs of dornish characters,,,,and you kill one of them off, yes that is not a great look

4. Dont introduce the only WoC pov in the whole damn book nipple first and as a blatant play on the brown seductress when she has legitimate political concerns and greivances

And thats only the dornish characters! With the dothraki and most of essoss just.....anything aside from what he’s done would be better. But of course im sure none of this is actually racist writing decisions. No its simply complex characterisation of course!!1!

[hazelcephalopod]

The Eye of the World Ch 1-3

Disclaimer: this is my first read thru but I’ve watched the first 4 episodes of the show and been spoiled on some things. So… I’m going to lean into that. Enjoy figuring out what I know and what I think in know and what I don’t. Also I add commentary when I edit.

Spoilers for the first book under the cut. Also the first season of the show.

Immediate impression

Story proper starts! This is nice. Get a feel for the world and this village. Learn about the characters. Pretty good so far.

Warning: long under the cut.

Interesting it’s only from Rand’s perspective so far.

Ch 1

A chapter! Finally!

Hey it’s the thing! I think moraine says this at the end of the first episode!

Yup wind and cloaks do be like that. According to fantasy at least. Idk about real life

Black cloaked rider who wasn’t there a moment before whose face is shadowed so much they appear not to have. A face. Yea… and it’s just all creepy huh?

That only Rand can see. Yup. That’s fine I’m sure

Tam is just so chill about his son just seeing shit

Rand… the lack of the rider being affected by the wind is the creepy part now? Cuz we just covered so much worse imo.

Huh… interesting that he finds being around Egwene so uncomfortable

Just not farming fertile land. (If I got that right) So I guess things at least aren’t so bad for them. But the animals also don’t seem to like the mountain. Because of course they don’t

Oh no. Bad stuff is just happening. Cool cool cool

Maybe she doesn’t want to tell them the bad news. Young Wisdom everyone dislikes and underestimates doesn’t want to disappoint. Makes sense. (I later understand that man [Cenn] is an asshole)

Wow. So either that’s normal and men and women’s business is very separate. Or this is a bad marriage. I suspect, both.

Oh no everyone just like that. Ok, got it

And also answered. Everyone is very stubborn. So the “will not die kind of stubborn is actually, too stubborn to die”. Excellent. That explains that

The specific vibe of this town feels familiar to me

Storks?

Well yes Mat the rider was terrifying by all accounts!

Watch it be Lan. (I later learn it’s not!)

Yup. Prankster as a youth and you may never outgrow the title and distrust thing

Ah teen crushes. All the feelings all at once. (And the added weight of everyone being like “do it!”)

Ch 2

Ah yes everything is shit and we need to talk about it but we don’t really want to

Huh so I did pick up that these families really do want their kids to get together (al’Vere and al’Thor). Honestly the show did good communicating that with the limited time it was given.

You do need to eat something though. We just were over this

Food! Finally

Dude the descriptions of food put GRRM to shame. And he likes to describe food. The descriptions in general here are… well descriptive and frequently so. Just an observation

Huh. These kids really do be pranksters. Someone told me that and yes. They are! Low key hope we hear of that in the show, that’s some good call back “hey remember when times were good” don’t even need to show it if they get the scene right.

It was not Lan! But- They’re here!

I love this gossipy little town where nothing ever happens until it does and everyone knows immediately

Do we ever learn what the man was hiding from in Baerlon?

Egwene would have listened in

Oh when your horse and cart is gone and it’s just fine. Whoever put it in the stable! No worries.

“All was as it should be. Except that he was being watched.” -EOTW And to think I was fully back into the childish glee of something happening in a town nothing ever happens. Then ‘remember the horrors that await.’

Ok so there really is something weird about the Ravens in this town.

Rand is quite curious or suspicious. Probably both (it’s both)

That was not an answer Moraine

I have to say being in Rand’s head is really interesting because he is clearly in it a lot. And it really makes sense where his head is at

If she’d given Mat that money in the show I thing he’d have done whatever she wanted for a month. He’d also have spent it within the hour

Oh. He’s happy. That’s nice.

That is a lot for one peddler

Ch 3

Padan Fain is a great name for a Peddler honestly. Padan Fain the Peddler

Well none of that sounds good

Cenn just sucks huh? All around just tedious little man so far.

Guy really knows how to role up a credit and the Mayor does not like it. Held his own pretty well tho

“… like living in the middle of a gleeman’s tale…One long adventure.” - Rand. Why am I sad? B/c right before, about all the talk of false Dragons and Aes Sedai “On the whole, he believed he would rather have blizzards and wolves.”

So he really is just having nothing but bad vibes. All day long, bad vibes. And honestly it isn’t going to let up

Mat no! Correct Perrin! Stay home!

All this conversation is just really good! Mats optimistic desire for novelty over self preservation. Perrins nervous realism. Rand defending the Dragon and calling out the Aes Sedai.

Mat coming in with some hope! But no one believes him…

Ah back to village gossip.

I love Nyneave. That’s all. She’s flawed and I love her

I kinda enjoy this weird dynamic between Egwene and Rand. She’s so certain and driven, and currently he’s seems just the opposite. They are clearly attracted to each other, but obviously in a teen crush sort of way where it looks good on paper but really the deeper connection isn’t there. Meanwhile everyone else is just… shipping them so hard adding to their confusion figuring out what they want.

[melrosing]

Do you think Jaime and Bran will meet again and what will it be like if they do?

Just because I love a pointless stat I’m like 80% sure they’ll meet again… and I think if Bran is still mostly himself (in contrast with what the show did with him S7/8 I mean) then it’s going to be pretty traumatic - he still vaguely recalls what happened to him in AGOT and who did it, and I’m sure he’d remember/at least have a very good idea if he saw Jaime again.

So yeah it’ll probably be an awful reunion lmao, and I think the result might well be Jaime deciding to announce what he did to whichever Starks besides Bran are remaining. GOT Jaime trying to hide the truth and looking anxiously at Bran all through his trial always seemed OOC to me (at least for book jam) who has been perfectly plain with Bran’s mother what he did when there was every chance she’d have him executed soon as she heard it. Also just generally he’s just a guy who doesn’t like hiding things, so strongly doubt he’s going to be trying to hide his worst crime in the final acts of his arc.

As for what Bran does with the revelation, don’t know. Can imagine GRRM going for a forgiveness theme but it’d be interesting to see what he may do instead. I just felt having show Bran not even care what happened to him and even justify it to Jaime was just… insulting to Bran, honestly