#anti israel left

[kick-a-long]

since it's come to my attention that some white nationalists in europe use the term "Pali" as a racial slur (no one on jumblr i have seen has ever used this term full stop and no one i have ever interacted with has used this term. I found out by stumbling onto the term on hateful and unhinged youtube shorts, where else?)

I'm personally going to try to stop using "pro pal" since it reminds me too much of that slur and the campus protesters et all aren't really pro Palestinian anyway. they do nothing to help palistinians. they just hate jews. I'll be trying to use Anti Israel Leftist, AIL, from now on.

I have no love for terrorists, pan arab supersesionists, their supporters, or islamist extremists (and frankly it's pretty clear that most arabs in arab only countries are endemically antisemitic) but that doesn't mean I want to lump populations or ethnicities together there or around the world by using dehumanizing slurs or things that might become direct slurs.

as an opponent of antisemitism and bigotry words have meaning to me and I'm bound by using them as correctly as I can. I'm not about to lecture anyone that uses 'pro pal,' It's a neutral term for the protesters around the world. it's a personal preference that leaves a bad taste in my mouth so AIL it is.

[politijohn]

Source

Source

[still-searching-for-something]

It’s so funny seeing the gentiles gradually distance themselves from the pro-Palestine movement and acting like they’ve been fighting antisemitism all this time. Because, like—

Where did the people who attended “long live the intifada!” rallies go? By any metric, pro Palestinian protests have been becoming less and less attended (see the DNC) and less well received. But the people who used to attend them haven’t vanished. They’re still out there, living their lives. Do you think they’re embarrassed? Ashamed? I doubt it.

The pro Palestine movement has, as it was always going to, alienated potential allies and out purity-politicked their members into radicalism and terrorism. And while I am glad the world seems to be leaning away from them now, I will never trust the goyim again. Their first instinct upon seeing the deadliest pogrom of Jews since the Holocaust was to cheer and celebrate it.

The news uniformly decided the word of a genocidal terrorist organization was more credible than the official press releases of the rules of engagement abiding armed forces of a liberal democracy. Why? Because said liberal democracy was Jewish. The academics decided human rights, feminism, antiracism, and historiographic honesty were useful, until it would have applied to the Jews.

And the world swallowed it up. Eagerly. Like it was cathartic to return to the status quo of the Jews being responsible for the ills of humanity.

And now, the news cycle has moved on to other topics (Biden steps down! Deadpool and Wolverine! Trump Trading Cards!). The pro Palestine movement has attacked everyone who doesn’t traumatize themselves with gore or set themselves ablaze to protest a nonexistent genocide. And shockingly, that doesn’t make people particularly sympathetic to your movement. So, the world’s decided yeah, okay, maybe there was some antisemitism in that pro Palestine movement.

No fucking shit.

We’ve been telling gentiles for the last 10 goddamn months that! I don’t know about you, but I saw that antisemitism on October 8th! And for pointing it out, we were accused of “playing the antisemitism card!” and “defending genocide!” and called “Zionazi scum!” But now, it’s so loud it cant be ignored and they’re deciding to disavow it.

Well, thanks. Thanks for stating the obvious after spending a year attacking Jews in every quarter. Thanks for making us fear for our lives and livelihoods. Thanks for reminding us why we need a Jewish state. And thanks for correcting those of us who were naive enough to think maybe the world wasn’t so antisemitic anymore, that maybe we were accepted and valued members of our countries, universities, companies, and communities.

We won’t forget this. Even when you do, when you deny your role in this, when you delete the celebrations you posted on October 7th, we will remember. Always.

[that-rad-jewish-girl]

If your activism involves defacing a Holocaust memorial, you are not, in fact, “just anti-Zionist”.

[travelbasscase]

I love it when anti-Israel dingbats try to say that "Palestine is a queer issue!" and argue that all LGBT people and all leftists should be anti-Israel because of the "intersectionality" between gay rights and Palestinian rights, or when anti-Israel dingbats try to argue that "Palestine is an indigenous issue/colonization issue" because they're in favor of indigenous land-back movements until an indigenous land-back movement succeeds.

Yeah, people with various different identities have different experiences than people who aren't those things. But that doesn't mean that we need to center the discussion on Palestine every time people are trying to advance the rights of other disadvantaged groups (see: the Women's March organizers). Being a minority in multiple aspects doesn't mean you're obligated to take a strong stance in adherence to the organizers of your movement on every other situation. And it's not helping your case here (not that you have a defendable thesis to begin with).

I'm an autistic disabled ADHD lesbian female religious indigenous-to-Eretz-Yisrael Jew. Sounds like an intersectional identity to me. But the anti-Zionist crowd chooses to ignore any viewpoint that could challenge their argument, while saying they support LGBT rights, feminism, indigenous rights, disability rights, and the rights of minority religions. There's no intersectional progressiveness in supporting a terrorist regime that slaughters women, LGBT people, religious minorities, and the indigenous inhabitants of the land.

[bsof-maarav]

I just talked to one of the handful of friends I have left from my former community and found out that a specific former mutual friend, one who particularly prides herself on being a feminist, is straight up denying the hamas rapes, demanding "forensic evidence" and claiming it's all "Israeli propaganda."

I just have no more words left. I knew it was bad and I left behind what little social media I had in the first days after October 7th because I saw enough to know that I wasn't going to be able to be in this community anymore, I saw enough to know that I wasn't going to be hanging out with this crowd ever again. But I didn't stay long enough to watch every particular individual do and say the monstrous things that it turns out so many of them have been doing and saying.

I just left. And for a lot of them, I deliberately didn't look. I deliberately didn't look too closely at anything this woman was doing, for example--I thought it would hurt too much if it was bad. I thought it was better to just consider this part of my life over, to remember these people as they were to me before. I didn't want to know. I was leaving anyway.

Piecemeal, I saw some egregious things from some of my former friends. Glorifying self immolation...calling for the genocide of Jews...Holocaust inversion...claiming the hostages deserved it...denying that Jews are indigenous to anyplace on this earth...people who have utilized our words and symbols for their own liberation movements, wholesale denying the humanity of the people who made those words and symbols in the first place.

Every new piece of news I learn about who is dehumanizing us and with what rationale is just profoundly dispiriting.

No matter how many ways these people should be able to relate and make a human connection, they refuse to. Everything in their supposed values should enable them to hold the truth of what is happening to us. But it doesn't.

They're willing to treat Jews, especially Israeli Jews, in a way they would never accept for anyone else, in a way they would strenuously resist for anyone else--in fact, they strenuously resist much less serious things for anyone and everyone else! and that just breaks me. It means they never had the values that I thought we shared. It's all been a lie.

I froze things in time for some months, to some degree, accepting it was bad enough to be over, but not wanting to know the details. But with every new detail it's undeniable: there is no moral compass there. That world should have been a home for me and for years, I felt it was, but this hate was there the whole time. I never understood the conditions of my "belonging."

I can never forgive them. Not least because they'll never stop feeling righteous about their evil.

[ara-line]

Some myth busting about Israel's Eurovision participation

Do note that I use countries here when referring to participation. The term broadcasters would be more accurate since a national broadcaster chooses the entrant and the broadcaster is a member of the European Broadcasting Union, the organization behind Eurovision. But a lot of people use the term countries instead of broadcasters, hence why I'm using that word as well.

Myth 1. "Israel isn't even in Europe"

Well, any country that's part of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), which Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia are members of, can participate. Same goes for associate members like Australia, hence why Australia is allowed to participate. Lebanon and Morocco could also participate but choose not to because of Israel. In fact, Morocco's only participation was when Israel wasn't participating in the contest, and Lebanon planned to participate but didn't because of Israel's participation. There are rumours going around that this is also the case for Tunisia and Qatar.

Myth 2. "Eurovision banned Russia but not Israel."

Not completely true. Russia was initially going to participate in the 2022 contest, but several countries protested against Russia's participation and threatened to withdraw if Russia was allowed to participate, thus leading to them being kicked out. We will come back to this point about several countries threatening to leave.

Myth 3. "A lot of the artists speaking out about Israel could actually just withdraw from the contest to make a real statement."

You do realize the EBU actually will fine countries if they withdraw too late without good reason? I'm pretty sure a lot of these countries have contracts in place for their contestants, and since the contest is set to take place in mid May, withdrawing would mean possibly being blacklisted from the music industry and losing out on more opportunities. Not for being pro Palestine, but because they backed out on a contract they signed and left the many, many people who work behind the scenes high and dry on really short notice.

Technically not a myth but worth mentioning: 4. "Israel should be kicked out because her presence is a security risk."

Where do we even begin with this? If a country like Sweden, where the contest is being hosted, isn't able to protect its contestants from terrorist attacks, they shouldn't be hosting. It's that simple. I doubt anyone would've said this if Russia was allowed to participate in 2022.

Myth 5. "Eurovision lets Israel pinkwash its crimes."

@pauvrecamille really summed up how a lot of the discourse around pinkwashing can be boiled down to "country I hate gives their gays more rights than one I like." We could talk about how the only transgender winner is from Israel herself.

And if there is a case to be made for pinkwashing in Eurovision, I would argue that it applies more to Russia and Azerbaijan than it does to Israel. At least Israelis can criticize their government and not fear being arrested.

Speaking of Azerbaijan:

Myth 6. "If even one country withdraws from the contest, then that will send a statement to the contest."

Not true. Armenia withdrew from the 2021 contest because of the war with Azerbaijan, while Azerbaijan was allowed to participate in the contest. This is even after we already know they've cheated twice in the contest, on top of the human rights violations. And we could talk about how so many were forcibly displaced because of Azerbaijan hosting the competition in 2012.

We can also talk about how Ukraine withdrew from the contest in 2015 because of Russia's invasion. Russia was still allowed to participate and went on to place second that year.

In 2008, Russia invaded Georgia and in 2009, the Georgian entry was called "We Don't Wanna Put In" which contained veiled references to Putin's invasion. Because Russia was hosting the contest that year, the EBU tried to get Georgia to change their song. Georgia refused and ended up withdrawing.

Remember what I said about several countries threatening to withdraw if Russia was allowed to participate in 2022? It took a total of 10 countries expressing their concerns about Russia's participation and three or four threatening to withdraw if Russia was allowed to actually get the EBU to reverse course on their decision. So there's that.

EDIT: Myth 7: "People wouldn't be bullying the artists for participating in the contest if the EBU kicked Israel out."

Why am I even surprised this is a talking point?

Edit: Myth 8: "Eurovision is treating Israel differently because of the whole lyrics change situation."

I've seen this on both sides, and this is not true. I've mentioned Georgia earlier, but I also want to mention Armenia's 2015 entry, originally called Don't Deny. It was changed to Face the Shadow and allowed to compete. It's reportedly about the Armenian genocide. The point is, stuff like this happens all the time. In 2021, in the midst of protests and lack of freedom, Belarus sent a pro government band with a song containing veiled lyrics threatening to subjugate the protestors. The EBU allowed them to submit another song but ultimately, Belarus was kicked out after they still failed to follow the rules.

So no, this is not out of the norm. At least from what I know. I'm more than happy to edit this section out if I have been proven wrong. God knows I've edited this post many, many times.

Final thoughts:

A lot of the people who are all high and mighty about boycotting Eurovision would absolutely not be doing that if it was Russia participating. They certainly didn't when Azerbaijan did in 2021.

A lot of the misinformation around Eurovision this year can be chalked up to antisemitism and not understanding how contracts work. I think it's also really performative and virtue signaling at best. Yes, it's true that the postcards(clips for the broadcast while preparing for the next performer) for the 2019 contest, held in Israel, where filmed in disputed territories.

Actually, let's talk about the postcards.

You see, KAN, the Israeli broadcaster, chose not to film the postcards in territories like the West Bank. And they were criticized for it by the right wing Israeli government. So there is a true fact about something bad the Israeli government did that you can criticize them for.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Yes, it's true that Israel's lyrics were changed so they could go ahead and participate this year. It's just that now, it's really difficult to have a sane conversation about Israel in general. It's difficult to have a sane conversation about antisemitism with some people. Take this post here trying to combat antisemitism only to end up having to fight Islamophobia. Put a big F in the chat for the OP of that post, yikes.

If no one got called anti LGBT when the World Cup was held in Qatar and people still watched, I don't see why people who choose to watch Eurovision this year should be called pro genocide.

Last but not least, I want to end this on a more positive note, so this year's contest is looking really good. No one's completely sure who will take the win this year, but right now the song with the most bets to win the contest is Switzerland. It's not like 2023, where we all knew who was going to win weeks before the actual contest. So I'm interested in the outcome this year. You guys are more than welcome to throw in your own opinions on this year's caliber of songs if you want.

[wanderrnest]

Feministit.

[ultraericthered]

Encountered a "Queers For Palestine" post on my dashboard 'cause it's pride month so of course I would, and I just...

You guys do realize that Hamas hates the whole lot of you and would put you to death if they saw you down there in Gaza? And so if we want to see things made better for queers in Palestine, the total destruction of Hamas and removal of such extreme far right islamic theocrats from power over Gaza would be the natural first step to it?

Just figured that should be every bit as important to the cause as supporting victims of the bombings, protesting against the reckless warfare on innocent civilians, and advocating for a ceasefire, thus every bit as clearly communicated as an objective for Palestine's future. Otherwise you end up like the "useful idiots" described here:

[proudzionist]

This tweet is absolutely disgusting 🤮

What an ignorant , foolish , stupid thing to tweet .

This anti 'ignorant' anti semite wants Jews to prove they are not Zionists by wearing 🍉 to identify themselves.

🤔🤔🤔 Identify Jews

Doesn't that sound familiar?

I can't believe in 2024 we still live with people this ignorant in the world .

Jews have always lived in Israel .

They will always live in Israel .

Israel lives 🇮🇱💙

Anti Zionism is Anti semitism!

[politijohn]

Source

[still-searching-for-something]

Shoutout to those Nazi octopus posters leftist edition explaining how Israel is responsible for all the suffering in Africa, somehow responsible for police brutality in America, and responsible for the riots in the UK

[that-rad-jewish-girl]

Leftists in America heard about a music festival coming under fire and most people dying or being kidnapped. Their response was to tear down posters of those people and join protests against the victims of the massacre.

And I’m just trying to think of any other time they’ve done that in response to mass casualty shootings.

I’m trying to think if there’s been any other time they’ve blamed the victims of a mass shooting.

I’m wondering why these victims are different. And I’m gonna take a wild guess that if a mass shooter shot up a Jewish day school in America today, they would not be protesting gun violence in the wake of it.

[genderfluid-jewish-lesbian]

oh, of course. it’s not at all antisemitism to say that the media is controlled by zionist. that’s not at all something that has been said for many years but instead of zionists people said jews. you’re totally right

[thebrightestwitchofherage]

Oh you want to boycott all Zionists aka Jewish products? Well good luck sis , the list is sooo long

Just delete this app and throw away your phone while you’re at it, it’s all made using Israeli/ Jewish tech

[edwardallenpoe]

the conflation of Zionism, the state of Israel, and Judaism is the worst thing on the planet, actually. Saying that supporting Palestine is antisemitism not only makes the struggle against genocide worse but it also makes the struggle against antisemitism worse! The more we conflate antizionism with antisemitism the less we will be able to spot actual antisemitism and the more we will harm the Jewish community and it is the greatest betrayal to Jewish people of all. Zionists (and 'leftists' who's hate for antisemitism is stronger than their love for jewish people and therefore inact alienation and conflation themselves) are doing a huge disservice to Jewish people (especially Jewish people who support Palestine and are being attacked by zionists and face so much antisemitism from zionists) and it's sickening.

I'm saying this as a non-jewish black person. You can SEE how much ACTUAL antisemitism is affecting the Jewish community but zionists are trying to conflate that with pro-palestinian protests and it's so frustrating.

How can zionists say that "from the river to the sea" is more colonialist than "we want '48"?

This post was inspired by an interview on MSNBC about the book "uncomfortable conversations with a jew" and seeing how they're also trying to frame antizionism and anti-Israel protests as equivalent to the civil rights protests and efforts towards freedom from the black community is sickening. This is an actual conversation to be had about antisemitism, antiblackness and intersectional activism and class solidarity between the Jewish community and the black community but the way they frame it in this lense is the biggest disservice, not just to the black and Jewish community but to every marginalized community. You CANNOT say that Israel's efforts to ethnically cleanse and genocide Palestine is the same as the African diaspora's (but specifically African American's) fight for rights and freedom, especially since the two biggest faces of the civil rights movement (Martin Luther King Jr. And Malcolm X, who was a pan African) were for the Jewish community AND for Palestine.

please. We can be pro-palestine and support Jewish people. That is something you can do. And I ENCOURAGE it.

Zionism ≠ judaism. Israel ≠ judaism. We understand this the same way we understand that nazi ≠ German citizens and that the state of russia ≠ russian citizens.