#anon I'm with you like. MK is connected to memory.

[imminent-danger-came]

Possible thought about Qi Xiaotian in relation to the fact that he and broken memories make similar sounds- he is a memory.

A memory of Sun Wukong given life. Here's my evidence:

While he did come from a stone egg, we never actually see that egg in reality, just in the memory scroll.

One of Wukong's most used powers is shape-shifting, and that is still used. But Wukong has a long history of shifting into human guises, and we never see him do that- Macaque does it, changing both into Xiaotian in his debut episode and the puppet master. It may be possible that Wukong hasn't done that in the present because he doesn't need to, but there's not even a mention of it in glimpses at the past

All the mirror parallels between Xiaotian and Wukong

And that's my only pieces of evidence. My other theory is that it's a side effect of having his monkey woken up inside the scroll when you probably should have done that anywhere else.

(Post anon is referencing!)

So, I think it's pretty clear by this point that MK is connected the scroll is some shape and form. Both times he enters the scroll, it emanates from him (which MK distinctly notices the second time):

(4x02 Familiar Tales)

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(4x11 A Lifetime of Mistakes)

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In s4, we also have the gang embody/meet their past counterparts: Tang becomes Tripitaka, Pigsy becomes Zhu Ganglie, Sandy becomes Sha Wujing, and Mei meets Ao Lie, but MK....MK meets the curse. That's the reflection of himself he comes across.

In 4x02, this is how Azure describes the scroll/curse:

Azure Lion: "[The scroll of memory is] a prison, designed to contain wicked souls, forcing them to relive their past misdeeds over and over again, for all eternity. In order to contain it's prisoners, a powerful protective curse was cast upon the scroll to prevent those in prison from escaping, and ensnare any who would seek to free those locked inside, trapping them forever. Left unchecked, that curse would have spread, consuming everything until nothing remained."

So, the scroll/curse forces you to re-experience memories, but for MK it tries to encourage him to give into Chaos and pushes him to the brink to reveal his Monkey Identity.

MK is a reflection/mirror of Wukong, yes, but there's also this other aspect to him we've never quite touched on. His eyes go blue on occasion, he interacts strangely with the Lady Bone Demon's powers, he seems to be associated with memory (LBD's og plan was to "undo" the memories of the world, and to use MK to do it).

MK being a warped memory of Wukong isn't necessarily off the table, but I do lean against it because of this scene:

This is what Scroll Subodhi asks MK to "remember" about his childhood. It's a memory that's linked to his creation, in some way.

And right now, I'd posit that MK is part underworld/scroll/memory, and part Wukong/the stone.

Wukong wasn't able to defeat the Jade Empeor, he says so himself (and so does the plot lol):

Sun Wukong: "But don't worry—I almost beat the Jade Emperor single handed once!" (4x12 The Plan Man)

But then soon after, Wukong makes this claim:

MK: "Ne Zha's right—while Azure has the Jade Emperor's power and the scroll, there's NO way we could beat him head on!" Sun Wukong: "I mean, some of us could beat him! *ahem* One of us, specifically-" MK: "Nope! None of us at all."

(4x12 The Plan Man)

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Wukong isn't talking about himself here. He's talking about MK, and how MK could beat the Jade Emperor single handed. MK then quickly denies it, wanting to ignore this part of himself. Then in 3x13 MK pushes Azure to his absolute limits, causing Azure to go berserk and almost destroy everything. Had MK not been thrown out of his Monkey Form, I have no doubt that he really could have defeated the Jade Emperor—which makes him terrifyingly more powerful than Wukong.

One of my biggest questions pre-s4 was how MK got his powers, and why exactly he was so strong (particularly when facing the Samadhi Fire, something that's world-ending). Monkey Form explains some things, but we haven't gotten to the real meat of MK's origins yet, which I'm excited for.

[askfallenroyalty]

Darkworld Arc anon again :D!! I am very intrigued by your rewritten idea for the Darkworld Arc! Now I just have some questions: what do you mean by Chara & Feylow being "Narrators", and does Feylow still carrying symbolism? I'm trying to remember and all that comes up in my brain is that Feylow either represented Asriel somehow, or somehow represented Chara...

[has alt id]

(just for a fun mock-up, they wouldn't be in the ??? area. probably.)

the idea is that MK, Suzy and Frisk are a party. Chara and Feylow are (ghostly???) narrators.

actually, playing with that idea. Maybe Frisk is the only one who can see/hear them. Chara would still be the one with the SAVE powers, and have to save on Frisk's behalf.

Chara narrates, partly cause It's What You Do In An Adventure and also cause, they have no way of interacting with anyone else that's real.

but yeah regarding the symbolism: Feylow is a trick. You're supposed to assume they're a fake Asriel (you'd assume it's Chara's memories of Asriel) -but in reality, they're representing Chara and their fear of growing up. Also, subtle (ha) foreshadowing Chara is also a golden flower like Asriel-Flowey is.

but yeah Chara's now the B-Plot as Frisk-Gang has to navigate this darkworld together. Then the B-Plot connects to the core conflict as it's clear it's Chara's darkworld here and they have to break free.

All along the way Suzy and MK work out their differences, Frisk has New Friends! Which makes it harder when Chara wants to reset later -because then it's not just their family, they'd have never met Suzy in this timeline. Frisk obvs will still want to reset for Asriel's sake, but the conflict will feel more grounded and not as harsh this time around. How I originally handled this plot point is my biggest regret. 😔

[imminent-danger-came]

hello hi could you talk about MK? like literally anything about him you want, thoughts you haven't said yet or things you've been saying over and over again?

I have the perfect rant lined up for this actually!

So: MK existing outside of the jttw story.

There are several scenes where MK feels...very disconnected from the rest of the gang. Like, in 3x09 when everyone else is reflecting on how familiar the samadhi fire sealing grounds feels, MK doesn't recognize anything. In the scroll, we meet everyone's ancestors/past life except MK's (which they lampshade in 4x05), but we do run into the curse. Even in 4x02, MK isn't a constellation in the stars like every other main character is.

Now, the scroll of memory, as far as I am aware (and after tying to look into it) is not something that exists in jttw. Like MK, it exists outside of the jttw story.

Azure Lion: "That and a great many other tales I'm sure. Everything that has ever happened, every deed, ever word has been recorded in the scroll of memory." (4x02 New Adventures)

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Back in August, an anon pointed out the swirl and star that turns up in multiple places, as seen in this post.

"The first star is above/outside of "everything that has ever happened" (aka what is recorded on the scroll of memory), and the second star with Wukong is only seen because reality is breaking apart (aka we start to see what is 'outside of everything')."

So I just want do draw the connection between MK and the scroll who both exist outside of journey to the west, and this star that exists outside of reality.

(Post with MK & Underworld Connections, I realize that may seem out of left field if you haven't seen this before lol)

Which, the fact that both MK and the scroll are lmk originals makes me even more certain they are related!