#and they SUCK at it but hey. Bruce doesn't want to let Joker take a third acid bath so he's gotta deal

[distort-opia]

#op I'm literally currently working on that 300k word fic HAHDJFJ#but no yeah I love this analysis#I view it through a more. realistic (???) lens in the sense that I like to connect joker's & batman's behaviors to actual mental illnesses#bc it helps me conceptualize everybting better dhdjfffj#but no yeah there's not. that many rehabilitation fics to begin with#and none of them (to my knowledge) really deal with BRUCE'S trauma and the way he copes with it#their relationship is so funky rn like post-joker war I couldn't resist...#I think a bpd-aspd comorbidity fits joker surprisingly well bc it like. accounts for his impulsivity/sensation seeking as well as his#mood swings + weird codependency with batman + his constantly changing/nonexistent sense of self#working with the assumption that he does have aspd + bpd provides a pretty good concept for what treatment could look like#bc god knows no canon material has covered that (I am ignoring white knight <;3)

@clownprince That's a very interesting approach, excited to read the story! I definitely agree BPD-ASPD comorbidity fits Joker, and keeping this in mind a realistic (and humane, as opposed to what Arkham staff is frequently depicted doing) treatment could be drawn up for him. Rehabilitation scenarios can be varied of course, and in the context of Joker genuinely wanting help, not entirely doing it because Bruce demands it or because it's a condition for their relationship to happen... I can see the power imbalance being less of a problem. In the sense that it wouldn't be the equivalent of Batman fashioning a leash for Joker. And you're right to point out that Bruce not also dealing with his trauma at the same time would be an obstacle too, for a shitload of reasons. But probably chief amongst them is his attraction to dangerous individuals (which, if Joker stopped being one, he has a point in fearing that Bruce's interest would wane) and potential resentment on his part for Joker getting better and him... not. Bruce is a selfish person with abandonment issues the size of a galaxy, part of him would not be able to help registering this as being left behind in the darkness and the pain of his own struggles.

Best of luck on the 300k word fic, happy this kind of complex story is being attempted!

I'm wracking my brain with what Joker would do in an established situation, like how would he keep those homicidal urges at bay (sex and intimacy can only go so far I imagine) and also there's so much unacknowledged mental health concerns. Bruce would just have to always be ready to pick up the pieces I feel like (God these two are a tragic mess). I don't think normalcy is possible but I don't think their relationship is built for that anyway (I've been writing notes down for a story for days and it's just been consuming me)

An actual relationship between Bruce and Joker is a very complicated thing to imagine, yeah. I agree with you that normalcy is entirely out of the question-- as in, a typical "healthy" relationship. What I think they could have is something that works, but not something that most people would understand or approve of. If you're writing a story, I would say it depends on how they got into the relationship a lot, and if Bruce is compromising as much as Joker perceives he is. For instance, a rehabilitation scenario inherently implies a power imbalance, which Joker would resent and Bruce would not be able to help not taking advantage of. This would not end up working out, in my opinion, unless they got back on equal footing somehow. So a scenario with them an equal footing is what I will be rambling about.

Joker's homicidal urges and mental health issues are indeed a big obstacle. It'd take a whole lot for him to even agree to try for a relationship that involves something other than violence, but this denotes a willingness to compromise from the start. It means he cares about Bruce enough to risk opening the door to his humanity, something that he's very keen on eradicating. Joker can allow himself to love Batman as long as love equals destruction; but once love begins to mean more tender things, things that only people and not monsters can feel... it's a threat to his very identity, to his very core. Hence, just the fact that Joker is in an established relationship means that he's accepted, one way or another, that he's a human being.

Human beings don't need to kill people. Monsters do. It's relevant to note that Joker has an incredible capacity to reshape himself. He's done so multiple times in canon, and always in relation to what he perceived Batman needed. He was murderous when he emerged, but after Robin appeared on the scene he went for funny silly gags, and then he recreated himself back into a horrific threat... In his head, Batman -- the drive to see meaning in all life, to fight for sense in one's existence -- is the force of nature that he's the opposite of. Joker molded himself as the force of chaos: he kills carelessly, sometimes almost joylessly, because he believes he's embodying the true way the world works (though he's shown signs he'd like to be convinced otherwise).

After all, like his fall in the acid and the trauma he went through proved, catastrophe is random. It doesn't matter if you're good or evil, if you've got a family or if you're alone, if you've contributed to society or not. You can get run over by a bus, you can have a heart attack, you can mix the wrong medications, you can get shot in the head by a madman because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. My point with this is that Joker sees himself as an agent of the cruel randomness of existence, and him killing people is very much part of it. So if he stopped seeing himself as an inhuman force for chaos, I think killing would not be a necessity anymore.

That's not to say he wouldn't think of other people's lives as worthless or that he wouldn't instinctually want to kill someone because they're inconveniencing him as some kind of fly buzzing around, but it does mean he wouldn't need to do it. Being with Bruce undermines the very point of being Joker, it means being a person instead of raging at the world. In an established relationship, he'd need to once again reshape himself, figure out who he can be. It'd be very difficult, if you add Bruce's controlling tendencies in the mix. You mentioned Bruce always having to pick up the pieces, but the thing is, Bruce would want to. He'd want to do that too much, he would enjoy seeing Joker be vulnerable, because afterwards... Bruce would be able to put those pieces back together the way he wants them to be. And Joker would be rightly afraid of that, and Bruce himself would be afraid of his own need to do just that, and it'd be a constant push and pull. That's basically what I think it'd be like for a while, before Joker figured out who exactly he's comfortable being, and if he can trust Bruce to still be there when boundaries are being pushed. It'd be a lot of "make me" even in the context of intimacy, until Joker initiates something that doesn't hurt on his own and like... Bruce doesn't move a muscle as if he might spook a wild animal or something. And then Joker snaps at him to stop making it weird, hah.

I'm going to stop here to avoid turning this into a Batjokes relationship essay, but I hope this helped inspire you, Anon! We can always use more Batjokes stories, excited to eventually read yours.

[gretahayes]

how do you think jason and dick's relationship would change if jason found out about dick killing the joker, then bruce reviving him? like yeah okay bruce would lose his second son for good, probably, but how would the brOTHERS be affected

Sorry it took me so long to get to this, I've been thinking about it.

I fully believe that it depends on Jason, how long it's been since he came back. For the sake of this scenario, let's say this is Jason around two years after he came back. Not fully reconciled, but definitely not estranged either, working on relationships. Slowly building back bridges.

And how he found out, let's say it's Tim. Tim, ever so slightly bitter at Bruce, referencing it in conversation over comms when they're on a mission together, just the two of them. He wasn't sure Jason didn't know, Tim'll defend later. It's not his fault this family sucks at communication.

Anyway. Robin slips it into conversation as a quip, a gamble—"hey, we don't want you to pull a Nightwing, do we,"—and Hood arches an eyebrow.

"A 'Nightwing?"

Robin looks at him oddly, "yeah? Killing a villain with your bare hands to avenge a family member?"

Hood goes still.

Robin tilts his head, prompts, "the Joker. You know Wing killed the Joker for you, right?"

And Jason’s world shatters. He hears Robin- Pretender, Tim, in the background, panicking, saying it's fine, it's okay, B brought him back-

"What?" Jason croaks.

Robin stops. Considers. "Ask them about it after patrol," he says, and shuts his mouth.

He keeps it zipped for the rest of the patrol, and Hood isn't able to get even a peep out of him, so he comes back to the Cave and asks.

He asks, and Dick looks uncomfortable, Bruce closing himself off, but he gets a yes out of them.

Of course, he's pissed at Bruce, but. Dick killed the Joker for him. Dick killed someone—a monster, but someone nonetheless—for him. Jason is worth making to feel safe, is worth killing for. And, he doesn't forget it.

Jason, afterward, is more cooperative with Dick. Tim gives him the nastiest side-eye imaginable whenever he takes Dick up on any of the offers for food or a movie or simply hanging out at Dick's place, but grudgingly and quickly makes himself scarce. Dick tries calling to him, to no avail. It's incredibly passive-aggressive, the silent rebellion of a teenager that has to share his older brother's attention, but it makes Jason smile a bit. All is not forgiven, Tim makes pointedly clear, and Jason is fine with that.

Jason works with Nightwing more often, and is around more for Dick Grayson. Dick, on his end, is glad for it. He's got to wrangle with his own feelings that come up whenever Jason comes up, of inadequacy and regret and grief and anger, but it's a small price to pay for his little brother back. Though he'd rather he didn't lose his baby brother in the process, Tim will get over himself. The little brat always does.

Dick and Jason aren't brothers again, not by a long shot. But bloodshed ended their brotherhood, so it's only fitting it begins it again.

[snowfrostssimp-books]

HARLIVY'S CHILD

Grow up absolutely loved and cherished.

You always had space to be yourself and be confident in your ways.

Reluctantly on your part joined the Batbrats but they treat you like family.

Alfred helping you stitch up after a mission since your moms are at home binging the pottery wars or something.

"Uncle A, I got shot again." "Sit down child."

"Don't worry he looks much worse than me." "I don't doubt it."

"What will my moms say?" "They'll go on a bounty huny if not already on one." "Right, Ma talks with plants like me." "Hmm."

Bruce secretly adores your.

"Hey uncle B." "Can I help you?"

Dick sees you as an annoying little sister. "Hey Mr Glutes." "It's weird because your moms also call me that." "Suck it up."

Batgirl is like your big sister that Harlivy easily get annoyed with. But let's it slide cuz she's a good influence on you.

"BG, how you been?" "Hey you! How's training going?"

Damien is confused but not repulsed by your company.

"Batbrat stop with acting like you're a sweet potato pie." "I don't have to act. I just am."

Best schools attended. Genius child. Duh look at your moms.

Gymnastic training. Variety of martial arts training. How to connect with the green training.

Gardening with Ivy and anti-heroing with Harley.

You're 70% Anti-hero.

The other 30% dislikes humans.

Missions goes something like this...

Nightwing: "Give it up Riddler we solved the puzzle."

Riddler: "No. You cheated."

Y/n: "Uncle R, why don't you come in peacefully and I'll show you the unsolvable puzzle book collection I got for my birthday?"

Riddler: "Unsolvable?"

Y/n: "So I've been told."

Riddler: "Fine, lemme see it."

Most of the Rogues are actually just like your aunts and uncles. They're your family but you have no problem with kicking their asses if need be.

"Aunty L, you coming for dinner?" "I should be out by Friday kid." "See you then."

You, weirdly enough, get spoiled by Joker much to Ivy and Harley's dismay.

"Hey J, I got your present and I like it. Thanks." "Anytime."

No one knows why he cares but people suspect it was his wife's doing.

Harley and Ivy can be hard on you wanting you to be your best version of yourself. But you still have many rants with them knowing they won't judge and feeling comfortable with them.

You tend to seek comfort from Ivy but when you need a cry you'll go to Harley she's much better at comforting you.

Ivy doesn't do good with tears, but atleast she's learned hugging works so if you start crying she just hugs you letting you cry into her shoulder.

May the gods have mercy on whoever hurts you because your moms sure as hell won't.

You got 2 cats from Selina who's like your cool wine aunt.

The others are confused at how much Selina adores you but your moms love it.

"I'll name them Bruce Jnr and Selina Jnr." "Just like your mom, you suck at naming animals." "You named your cat Isis, Aunty Sel, you can't judge."

Kingshark is your favourite uncle/babysitter.

"And to hack the govermen is easy." He teaches you how to hack like a pro.

Shark hugs all around.

Clayface would always morph into you and you'd be fascinated by the sudden appearance of a twin.

Clayface loves taking you on shopping sprees even if you don't like it as much you enjoy seeing him try on outfits and rant about what characters it fitted. You loved letting and watching him delve onto his creative mind. Often asking more about the characters letting Clayface get lost in his world of imagination.

The Justice League has recruited you but you didn't like being associated with them but always help out when they need it. You're on their 'Phone In Case Of Emergency' list.

Bane is your favourite uncle.

"Big B, are we going to the dog show next month?" "You bet we are!"

Sometimes you take him to the spa for a day to just relax or go to the gym with him to blow off some steam.

Beware any creeps that stare at you for too long. "Bane sees you staring at my gym partner!" He doesn't care if everyone hears and looks over.

Lex has tried recruiting you for The Legion Of Doom but Ivy made it clear just how she disapproved of his choices. Harley made sure to also give him a piece of her mind.

You live a free and wild life but you have protection around every corner on every side. The Batfamily. The Rogeus. All your family.

[risingmoonyue]

Batman/P5 Crossover

-Sometime before Akechi but after Futaba or Haru

-Damian is sent to Tokyo to check it out for whatever reason (maybe they had a fight, or he’s going stir crazy, or he’s just the only one they can send at the time and didn't bother with all that "you're not old enough" business)

-Dami is younger than Futaba by a year or three or four

-He is baby

-He is transferred to Shujin as a child prodigy where he also immediately joins the "outcast" community because of his attitude and intelligence

-Talia goes too, manages to cut off all his communications with the Batfam, and is planning to take him home in a month whether he likes it or not

-For whatever reason, Batfam doesn't realize this??? (Like, either she's faking reports or they're too busy (think fight or chaos in Gotham scenario maybe???))

-Anyways, obviously Dami doesn't want this

-Somehow the Phantom Thieves hear about the situation

-Maybe he was assigned to shadow Makoto for a while, and they managed to overhear a phone conversation either to Talia or Dami trying to get in touch with the Batfam and nothing really working

-And eventually they outright see him fighting with his mother with him at some point (either in person or over a phone call) mentioning that she already disowned him, he's happy with his Father's family, and that he will head her family business over his dead body—and oh would you look at that, you already managed that, care to try again Mother?

-The PT's are understandably alarmed

-And learn her name from Damian (from Makoto maybe or someone else he bonded a little with) (MORGANA) (THEY GAVE HIM MONA FOR A DAY AND NOW THEY KNOW EVERYTHING FROM HIS MANY PETS TO HIS LEAST TO MOST FAVORITE SIBLINGS STARTING FROM TIM TO DICK TO HIS FAVORITE FOODS TO EVERYONE IN HIS FAMILY’S NAMES TO HOW STUPID HE FINDS EVERYONE AND WHY THEY'RE STUPID TO HIS FAVORITE MUSIC TO WHY ANIMALS ARE SUPERIOR TO HUMANS AND MONA’S LIKE OMG TMI BUT LOVED IT THERE BECAUSE HE WAS PAMPERED LIKE NO TOMORROW GOT ONLY THE BEST FOOD AND THE BEST BEDS AND TOYS THAT HE GOT TO TAKE WITH HIM BACK TO LEBLANC AND NOW AKIRA AND SOJIRO ARE LIKE DUDE WHY AND MONA’S LIKE IM KEEPING HIM THIS HUMAN IS GOOD SORRY AKIRA YOU’RE DEMOTED)

-The palace is basically a fortress full of assasin ninjas and clones

-Dunno what her keywords are tho

-Or her what her palace actually is

-Help?????????

-Cognitive Bruce, Ra's, Damian, Dami clones, and Jason (maybe rest of batfam??? Idk)

-Long story short, the traps are so assassin-y that they need someone who knows the actual Talia because egads, this is the closest they have all come to actually dying

-And they didn't really want to do it and were just gonna power through

-But Dami manages to find out and get in and of course uses his background to help out whether they like it or not

(-he's slightly off put by Joker's name, but then decides to just solely call Gotham!Joker "The Clown")

-At some point they are captured by the Shadow Talia who is decked out in super fancy traditional Arab clothing and probably every conceivable hidden weapon known to man

-Talia says Damian won't and can't ever change from who he "is meant to be", referring to him as her Alexander and basically brutally addresses all of his insecurities concerning the batfam and people and society in general

-And all this is kinda killing him cause he still loves Talia despite the fact that she killed him and had a violent citywide custody battle with Batman but he also loves the batfam too even if he would absolutely never admit it (except to maybe Grayson)

-Joker does his emotional kick-start thing and/or Dami is like Makoto and just gets so mad he triggers it himself, but either way, lo and behold, Damian is now a persona user, usurping Futaba's place as the baby of the team

-The outfit is kinda inspired by his future adult league outfit with the top and bottom and gold jewelry, but has a raggedy cloak with dull gold edges, a Robin mask and gauntlets, and his main weapons are batarang-sword hybrids

---acknowledging his past and moving on with his present

-Persona: Aladdin, Tsun Zu, Ali Baba, somone else???? Need ideas plz help

-Probably the fastest member of the group

-His small body makes his hits not as strong, but hoo boy can that kid move around

-Hits a lot and dodges most

-Most of his Persona abilities are physical and have high crit and/or are status affects

-Downside is he has not a lot of SP (compared to the rest of the group)

-And he has pretty good HP

-Those good ol' “superior genetics” have to be good for something after all

-Anyways they escape to find the treasure another day

-And Dami is all smug because HA you definitely can't stop me now

-And the PTs are just resigned to keeping an eye on the extremely competent snotty assassin/vigilante child

-They do like him though so it's not too bad (comes with learning all his darkest secrets via his mother and thought processes that tends to accompany watching someone at their lowest get a persona)

(-They do manage to temper him a bit and help him adjust better to actual society too that's nice)

-As such, they also know about Batman and Robin and his whoooole family. Both sides.

-Damian decided not to tell batfam because he does agree with the whole "most adults suck" mentality that the Phantom Thieves have; despite his deep, deep respect for his father and mother and Grayson, they all do kinda suck

-And he’s rather not get pulled out as he surely would if he told them

(-On a side note, he likes Sojiro

-The man gives him coffee, curry, and leaves him mostly to his own devices

-Instant win)

-He is dubbed "Mockingbird" apon return to the metaverse because of his freaky talented vocal skills in mimicking anyone and everyone's voice

-Eventually, they beat Talia

-She doesn't publicly confess to all her sins unlike everyone else

-PTs don't realize it worked until Damian came into school with a genuine smile on his face, and more relaxed than he'd been since he got there

-PTs are confused until Damian's like, this works out because hey, don't want to have several people assassinated and draw the entire freaking league to Tokyo

(-Which was probably why Talia didn't)

-They agree

-But she does break down to tears in Dami's arms and promise to ACTUALLY TALK CIVILLY with Bruce to try and make up for everything and try to fix up the league

-He stays for the rest of p5

-But steers all his reports very much away from the Phantom Thieves

-If anything, he downplays absolutely everything, and makes it seem like it's nothing super big but he's gonna stay a while to keep and eye out because y'alls are busy and I like it here and I haven't gotten expelled so there

-The PTs like to add funny stuff on there just to see if they’ll notice

-Like, Akira likes to have Dami describe his day in excruciating detail. Like, recounting the entirety of his nine or so months to Sae during police interrogation, excruciating

-Mona is pushing for the shiny stuff

-Yusuke just likes to put in bursts of randomness (Dami once mentioned that an acquaintance made another acquaintance T-pose in a church for art lol)

-Ann loves to rant about food

-Haru is always insisting on about feelings

-Ryuji likes to complain about everything and puts in ridiculous requests

-Futaba is just putting in every gen-z thing ever

-Makoto is actually responsible and tries to get him to talk about his progress in school and his social life

-And Akechi is absolutely nowhere near any of this and doesn’t know it exists

-When they have the Tokyo/Japan-wide calling card, Batfam sees it too because let's face it, that's totally the sorta thing that they would keep an eye out for even if he didn't look at the news in the entirety of the time Dami was in Tokyo

-And they send a message to Damian (the first actual communication they've had since before Talia) saying "WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON OVER THERE????"

-And with the entirety of the Phantom Thieves looking over his shoulder, Damian's just like "Chill dudes, everything's fiiiiiiiiiine"

-And they're like "UH WHAT PART OF THIS IS FINE????" because they've dug around a bit and found every news report, and oh hey, this isn't anywhere near as calm as Damian described and he’s being super OOC and what’s going on?!?!?!?!?!

-And Damian, being egged on by the most of the PTs, just sends a winky face

-Just

-😉

-And he's smug, because it's still chaos over there so they can't actually come get him and try to pull him out because he's being super ooc

-Which means he's free to do what he wants/needs in the meantime

-Cue the end of the game

-And Dami is going with them on their summer road trip and cackling because the batfam is scrambling to find him in Tokyo but lol nope he's in a van the Japanese government tried and fail to follow

-And he found all the trackers like, a year ago

-Every

-Single

-One

-They eventually track him down to Akira's house where they're calmly eating dinner (and they've been expecting this for the past week so Mona was keeping watch just so they could pull this off) and talking about how uneventful the school year was

-Cue mass confusion in the batfam

-As the PTs enjoy just confusing them so much

-By talking to Mona

-Talking normal then crazy then normal again

-And just generally being their normal selves lol

-They explain absolutely nothing beyond gushing about how much progress socially and academically he’s made (gotta embarrass the baby of the group somehow) and making sure that if Dami absolutely has to go home that he's able to stay in touch

(-Later, Damian forms his own hero persona outside of Batman and Robin)

(-He names it Mockingbird)

(-Batfam proceeds to have a brain aneurysm while the PTs dab their happy proud tears out of their eyes on their regularly scheduled tea time at the Wayne Manor)

(-Damian sends a private plane every week or two lol)

(Bonus: ARTTTTTTT)

(Psst if you guys have ideas for art, outfits, interactions or scenarios, let me know)

[itsblueberry13-blog]

#I've got my own pet project tangentially dealing with... treatment#though technically it's more 'Batman and Joker are forced by circumstances to be each other's therapist'#and they SUCK at it but hey. Bruce doesn't want to let Joker take a third acid bath so he's gotta deal#I entirely get wanting to place the characters in more realistic diagnoses but personally I like... letting them be unrealistic#because they live in a comic book world. realistically Bruce should've had brain damage by now after how many times he's been thrown around#and Joker should not break fourth walls or have meta awareness of other universes#but it's all a matter of personal preference and interpretation! would either way love to see what you come up with#sigh. I WILL continue Falls the Shadow too I just need TIME

I'm wracking my brain with what Joker would do in an established situation, like how would he keep those homicidal urges at bay (sex and intimacy can only go so far I imagine) and also there's so much unacknowledged mental health concerns. Bruce would just have to always be ready to pick up the pieces I feel like (God these two are a tragic mess). I don't think normalcy is possible but I don't think their relationship is built for that anyway (I've been writing notes down for a story for days and it's just been consuming me)

An actual relationship between Bruce and Joker is a very complicated thing to imagine, yeah. I agree with you that normalcy is entirely out of the question-- as in, a typical "healthy" relationship. What I think they could have is something that works, but not something that most people would understand or approve of. If you're writing a story, I would say it depends on how they got into the relationship a lot, and if Bruce is compromising as much as Joker perceives he is. For instance, a rehabilitation scenario inherently implies a power imbalance, which Joker would resent and Bruce would not be able to help not taking advantage of. This would not end up working out, in my opinion, unless they got back on equal footing somehow. So a scenario with them an equal footing is what I will be rambling about.

Joker's homicidal urges and mental health issues are indeed a big obstacle. It'd take a whole lot for him to even agree to try for a relationship that involves something other than violence, but this denotes a willingness to compromise from the start. It means he cares about Bruce enough to risk opening the door to his humanity, something that he's very keen on eradicating. Joker can allow himself to love Batman as long as love equals destruction; but once love begins to mean more tender things, things that only people and not monsters can feel... it's a threat to his very identity, to his very core. Hence, just the fact that Joker is in an established relationship means that he's accepted, one way or another, that he's a human being.

Human beings don't need to kill people. Monsters do. It's relevant to note that Joker has an incredible capacity to reshape himself. He's done so multiple times in canon, and always in relation to what he perceived Batman needed. He was murderous when he emerged, but after Robin appeared on the scene he went for funny silly gags, and then he recreated himself back into a horrific threat... In his head, Batman -- the drive to see meaning in all life, to fight for sense in one's existence -- is the force of nature that he's the opposite of. Joker molded himself as the force of chaos: he kills carelessly, sometimes almost joylessly, because he believes he's embodying the true way the world works (though he's shown signs he'd like to be convinced otherwise).

After all, like his fall in the acid and the trauma he went through proved, catastrophe is random. It doesn't matter if you're good or evil, if you've got a family or if you're alone, if you've contributed to society or not. You can get run over by a bus, you can have a heart attack, you can mix the wrong medications, you can get shot in the head by a madman because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. My point with this is that Joker sees himself as an agent of the cruel randomness of existence, and him killing people is very much part of it. So if he stopped seeing himself as an inhuman force for chaos, I think killing would not be a necessity anymore.

That's not to say he wouldn't think of other people's lives as worthless or that he wouldn't instinctually want to kill someone because they're inconveniencing him as some kind of fly buzzing around, but it does mean he wouldn't need to do it. Being with Bruce undermines the very point of being Joker, it means being a person instead of raging at the world. In an established relationship, he'd need to once again reshape himself, figure out who he can be. It'd be very difficult, if you add Bruce's controlling tendencies in the mix. You mentioned Bruce always having to pick up the pieces, but the thing is, Bruce would want to. He'd want to do that too much, he would enjoy seeing Joker be vulnerable, because afterwards... Bruce would be able to put those pieces back together the way he wants them to be. And Joker would be rightly afraid of that, and Bruce himself would be afraid of his own need to do just that, and it'd be a constant push and pull. That's basically what I think it'd be like for a while, before Joker figured out who exactly he's comfortable being, and if he can trust Bruce to still be there when boundaries are being pushed. It'd be a lot of "make me" even in the context of intimacy, until Joker initiates something that doesn't hurt on his own and like... Bruce doesn't move a muscle as if he might spook a wild animal or something. And then Joker snaps at him to stop making it weird, hah.

I'm going to stop here to avoid turning this into a Batjokes relationship essay, but I hope this helped inspire you, Anon! We can always use more Batjokes stories, excited to eventually read yours.