#and Midlink never appealed to me

[heros-shade-fanclub]

Going back in time to fistfight my 13 year old self who didn’t like Midna

[lozbotwfanart]

I am on a roll here. Small fanfic for @tasteofshapes , a request from the chatroom. If you want to join the chatroom, its LOZ:BOTW, just ask me!

Twilight Princess MidLink, not explicit 

It ended up being twice the length, oops

Midna gave a great yawn, stretching out her tiny imp arms and revealing her sharp snaggle tooth. She blinked lazily and rolled onto her back as she rode on Epona’s saddle. The journey they were on had lasted too long. Midna had watched the glaring sunlight from morning until the now twilight hours, and she was terribly tired. It was difficult for her to be in the sunlight for so long, so her energy was almost drained. She stared up at the hazy sky, the mixing of light into dark playing before her eyes.

               Link stoically soldiered on foot, leading Epona by the bridle. He too gave a yawn, his muscles ached from a nasty run in with some cunning moblins from earlier in the day. They were the reason the journey had taken much longer than expected. Link bested them as he always had, but the creeping influence of evil hung heavily in the air. The monsters grew more vicious, pleasures lost their appeal and movement became a strained effort. It was a race against time to stop Zant from gaining more power, but even time wasn’t acting like it should.

               “Finally!” Midna yelled, when they crossed the lintel that made the sign for Kakariko Village. “I thought we would never get here!”

               Link nodded, a wave of relief spreading over his body. They walked into the decimated but determined village, the small population of people getting ready to close up shop for the night. Midna knew the drill and hid away in the shadows temporarily. She hated this part but acknowledged that the people of the light world were just not ready to face a Twili. It was safer for Link as well, though Link could take care of himself if the circumstances warranted it.

               Epona was hitched outside to a post, given water and hay and left to her own devices in the safe shadow of the village. Link, with Midna purposefully hiding, walked into the inn and got 2 plates of dinner. He ate with gusto, ravenous with hunger. The waiter at the inn was curious about the two plates and even more intrigued when the food disappeared off both of them, when only one person seemed to be eating. Link just smiled a polite smile and put a few extra rupees on the table. The waiter whistled and looked away, disappearing into the kitchen without another word.    

               After they had eaten, both Midna and Link felt their energy return. Link settled the sleeping arrangements for the night with the inn keeper, while Midna was busy being nosy, hopping from shadow to shadow, getting behind the counter, in the cupboards and pots. She tugged at Link’s tunic and pulled him away from the counter. The inn keeper threw a skeptical eye towards him, but Link smiled again and tried to play it off.

               When the keeper had left, Link whispered harshly at his shadow, “You can’t do that while I’m talking to people! They get suspicious.”

               Midna ignored Link’s criticism and stated definitively “I want to go to the hot spring.”

               Link’s shoulders drooped as his comments were blatantly ignored.

               “Now.” She said, getting behind Link and pushing on his back with her shoulder. Link staggered out the door of the inn, forced along by an invisible shadow.

               “Cannonball!” yelled Midna as she splashed down in the water, spraying hot water into the air.

               “Hey!” Link held up his arms to protect his face from getting scalded. Link was tough, but even he couldn’t protect against damage to his eyes. Midna bobbed in the water, paddling around with her tiny limbs, clearly enjoying herself, seemingly unawares of Link’s peril.

               “Midna!” Link growled, too emotionally exhausted to keep his composure.

               “What?” she snapped, floating idly on her back. She knew she did something annoying, she could tell by the sound of Link’s voice. He hardly ever said anything harshly, and she knew that she was pushing things too far. But in her typical fashion, she refused to look her problem in the eye and floated away in the pool.

               Link sighed, the warm water was soothing, and he couldn’t be bothered to start a fight at this time of night. He decided to let it go. And with a smirk on his face, he gathered the strength in his arm and hit the water, sending a wave in Midna’s direction. It hit her on the side and she twisted around, surprised by the unexpected attack. Link laughed.

               Midna smirked, a devilish idea had just popped into her head. Link noticed; he instantly recognized that look and flew back to the edge of the pool, trying to brace himself for whatever was to come. Midna formed a giant hand with her fiery orange hair and pulled it back to wind up strength. She hit the water with enough force to send a tsunami across the pool, which washed over Link and flooded him backwards straight out of the pit. Link sat up on the rocks when the water subsided, looking like a drowned cucco. Midna laughed and laughed, hardly able to contain herself.

               Link watched as Midna laughed, she looked happy and relaxed. He loved to see her smile, especially when there was not that many things that Midna could be happy about. He sat there on the waters edge, and thought, how could he get her back? Link waded back into the water and hopped over to where Midna was floating; she had finally settling down from her fits of laughter.

               Link swam up to her side and grabbed onto her shoulders to bring her upright, looking straight into her eyes.

               “Hey, what are you—” Midna started to say, but was interrupted when Link bent over and planted a kiss on her cheek. She gasped, taking in a lot of air. Her already large eyes grew wide and a warmth swept across her face, the place of contact feeling especially like a hot iron had been placed there. Midna stared, speechless, her body going limp in the hot spring water.

               Link smiled his friendly smile, his eyes twinkling like the stars above them. “Got you.” He whispered.

Link and Midna spent another hour in the hot spring, Link holding onto Midna in his arms, Midna no longer fooling around, head laying on Link’s chest. She was very quiet, in a state of unexpected euphoria. She contemplated her time spent with Link and looked up at the inky black sky, the darkness soothing her soul, reminding her of her home. But she thought to herself that there was at least one thing that was missing in the Twilight Realm, and she had found it right here.  

[gascon-en-exil]

@eldraftsman and @zeldassmile

You guys got off into quite the discussion in replies and I’m a little late to getting back to them, so just a couple of disconnected points:

To reiterate, I don’t actually ship Urbosa/Zelda or personally have trans Link headcanons. I’m just acknowledging that they exist and that some people like them, and I think that diversity in fan interpretation is rarely a bad thing. Also, as eldraftsman points out it’s fallacious to dismiss Urbosa/Zelda because it’s “pedophilia” when A) Zelda is most definitely past puberty so it would actually be ephebophilia, B) age of consent varies by jurisdiction, and it’s impossible to say with any accuracy how it would be regarded in a fictional setting that never addresses the subject, and C) I seriously doubt it’s a major concern for the developers; recall that in Ocarina of Time an almost definitely prepubescent Link is duped into an engagement and the whole thing is played for comedy, or that in BotW itself there’s a Zora who appears to be a child yet gets involved in some fashion with an adult Hylian man.

The question of Link as a self-insert is a very old conundrum that’s even baked into his name (he’s the link between the player and the game world - someone in 1986 was feeling clever). There have been times when the games allow for the player’s input on certain story scenes, but most of the time that’s either not an option or the choices are irrelevant. BotW is notable in that almost nothing in the game is actually mandatory to complete it, including the flashbacks that showcase the development of Link’s character and his relationship with Zelda or anyone else. Of course these shouldn’t be discounted if we’re talking about Link as a discrete character, but the fact remains that the player can choose to ignore them and craft their own adventure to a degree not seen since the NES days. BotW Link’s not a full-on blank slate PC like those from MMOs, but he comes damn close. I’d compare him to death knight PCs from World of Warcraft, who like him come pre-packaged with a heroic backstory that was brutally cut short by tragedy, after which they are reawakened under strange and ominous circumstances.

On a related note, I never bought into that most outdated of gaming carrots on a stick, rescuing damsels in distress, specifically because it  (and the inferred promise of heterosexual love/romance/sex for the protagonist) never appealed to me. Clearly there are players who get personally invested in those scenarios - look at the recent outcry over Peach’s behavior at the of Super Mario Odyssey, for an immediate example - but since I’m outside that assumed straight male demographic it doesn’t do a thing for my sense of immersion. Certainly Zelink and some of the secondary M/F pairings like Malink and Midlink can play into that dynamic, but I prefer to pull different ideas from those interactions even if I’m not treating Link as a self-insert just because doing otherwise would be really boring. (Note that there are exceptions - I admit that the Zelink dynamic in Spirit Tracks is pretty fun, and at least one-sided Midlink can play into Midna’s broader development well enough.)

Kind of a humorous last note, but I’ve gleaned from a little research that many vocal anti-Sidlink fans are specifically bothered by how the ship’s fanbase plays up the size difference and, er, rough logistics that would probably be involved. To this I should point out that Sidlink is just the latest in a long line of M/M ships that pair Link with a man who is much larger, more dominant, and/or just outright evil. Whether that’s Ganondorf, Dark Link, Ghirahim, Groose, Demise, Linebeck, more Dom versions of himself with Four Swords selfcest...to paraphrase a gay friend of mine who’s also a fan of the series, Link is just a big ol’ bottom in fandom. As a bottom myself I could suggest that this trend reflects how physically demanding bottoming is and how it requires a fair bit of courage (heh), but I may be giving the fanbase a little too much credit with that reading. In any case, giant shark dicks is old hat at this point, with the only thing surprising being that Sidlink has become so wildly popular. Positivity + size kink = fandom gold, apparently.

[kendrixtermina]

It's not your "4 fix" that makes people think you're a infp. It's your obvious inferior Te. People like midlink have told you a thousand times: high Ti users break down their thought process instead of sending a long walk of text with difficult and over researched words. A intp wouldn't need a "long list with points and examples with less vague definitions" because that's Te, a Ti Dom is not as sure about their type as you're so stubborn with yours. You don't explain yourself like a intp.

Ah you’re one of their cronies. as I suspected. 

One group of raid-loving associates is hardly “people”. Calm your Fe tits and get perspective. . 

I shall not be wasting further time on this nor repeating the same arguments I made weeks ago, other than the tl; dr is that you’re shoehorning my words into your conceptions of the definitions with a generous helping of word-twisting and presumption. 

An amusing example for casual readers:

Me: “Be precise and specific. Give me reason to give your random claim attention and consideration.” ( that is, Don’t use a vague  that could be applied to anything)

They: You asked for said you needed “less vague” definitions [as in easier to understand] hence inf Te. 

It’s like those ppl who argue their fav character is an INFJ  and blame all the obvious, copious and constant displays of sensing on “inferior Se”. never mind that an inferior function would generally be used mostly when triggered rather than being the person’s default aproach.

I mean take a step back and look at this.  Do they realize that they’ve just basically claiming that using, referencing or researching technical jargon is something an INTP would never do? I don’t think they meant to do that  because it’s opposite of like what any source ever tell you about INTPs when you first ask what they are. Stereotypes don’t apply to everyone but the love of nerd jargon and researching new topics seems to be widespread. 

Rather this is insofar as I can tell a honest mistake due to using bad definitions. 

Good example for these “One trick pony, simplistic” conception of the functions a la “Si is memory” or “Ni is planning” that creates so much confusion, in their case “all referencing is Te”. In truth one behavior can be done by various processes in various ways. 

Since neither of us invented mbti and we wish to talk about mbti and not some thing we’ve made up from scratch on our own, we would have to read up on sources in order to talk about this mbti thing and use jargon in order to discuss the topic with precision and familiarize ourselves with the concept.

Since no human can invent the wealth of modern science themselves we ALL have to reference at some point. That’s no more a particular function than memory rather function influences how we reference. I daresay a lot of referenciing is also Ne but that would be a more associative sort. 

With the T functions its more about connections - the difference is more that Te takes the data as it is as basic “building blocks” which it then build into methods, procedures and applications, whereas Ti tries to understand what the source “means” that is recreate a model of the concept and its logical interconnections in their head. They won’’t just go and use the fact right away until they have analyzed it for themselves, but they may well think “this is an useful concept!” and adopt it, making additions or changes for themselves or synthezising their own understanding from multiple sources depending on what convinces them whereas the Te user adopts an alghorithm/procedure based on how well it gets results. 

Accepting info after checking it isn’t the same as just “swallowing” it. There’s a difference between citing a source as an appeal to authority or doing it so the other person knows which imput you used, which parts of the thinking are yours and to go and form their own conclusions. Obviously I would not reference concepts that did not convince me but the decision wether to be convinced or not is made via how the concept mashes with previous understanding and wether it makes logical sense not because I have seen its results and widely found useful by ppl in general (Te) - indeed a lot of this advanced in depht socianics stuff isn’t known or used by many people but I use it because I have found it makes sense and makes good distinctions.barring future changes of opinion of course.

Indeed knowledge only through results but not and unless there’s very good proof I tend to disbelieve or be sceptical of claims of casual relation if there is no mechanistical explanation of HOW thing A can possibly affect thing B. For better or for worse. Sometimes it turns out the local INTJ was right and a problem really ~was~ the laundry detergent’s fault even if I did not know how. . 

But in either case the person will talk of square roots when they encounter a square root or a problem that square roots  are relevant and refer to the word “square root”. Not everyone who ever did this is a FP or TJ. The difference is more in the focus understanding: TE: “You get a square root by multiplying a number with itself.” Ti: “A square root is a number’s multiple of itself.” - hence why socionics calls it procedural logic or alghorithms (”This is how you do it.” where the answer is a method) vs. structural logic or laws. (”What is it?” where the answer is a cathegory in the TPs’ sorting system)

Te is not just repeating phrases. TJs and FPs do not just repeat stuff - they know, to varying degrees, when and how to use what depending on what they encounter and criticize/ find fault in such methods. (Indeed in my experience the types who do the most “unsynthesized repeating of statements” are usually Ti inferiors who often compensate with a very Fe ish, “A said X statement but B said Y so I am asking a third person consensus decision process and they seem to have a hard time extracting extra information from a statement by deduction.)

What Jung meant by “objective” or “Subjective” in his original definition of the functions - which I’ve studied -  is not the colloquial sense of the words (that extroverted functions only copy and that introverted ones make every) but wether “the attention begins with the subject” or “the object.”

That means ddoes the thought start with the person, or with what they are seeing? 

Te, Ne, Fe, and Se will pay attention to the stimulus because it’s there wether it’s reacting to a feeling, awknowledging a fact, reacting to a sensation, noticing an association etc. with Fi, Ti, Si and Ni the process begins from the inside - how does the stimulus relate to the subject and their own feelings/beliefs/archetypes/past sensations? Hence why Te pays attention to things that are ‘relevant’ whereas Ti follows what the person is interested in & may not show much interest in what is deemed “relevant” by broad society hence the math geek who knows nothing about movie stars etc. 

And once you understand that it is way more probable that I have Ti insofar as I can discern I match those patterns very well. 

IDK who OP is surely can’t type them from just this paragraph but I recall that a lot of ppl of the group from the 2 weeks back poster were ENTPs so for a moment I’ll work off the asumption that you are one it would make a lot of sense if you were even if its not the only option. 

This is where the fine distinctions of socionics concepts are useful particularly in how they describe the difference between different function slots such as auxillary and as well as Victor Gulenko’s “Cognitive styles” (I am almost certainly holographic-panoramic so assuming that I was indeed mistaken and was a Fi user all along, I’d be an ENFP if anything.

It may come down to a difference between ENTP and INTP.

But to make iot short and cut to the basics the idea  - which at least to me seemed consistent with all my observations - is that the auxxilary or “creative” function is used to “create” new thoughts at the behest of the base/program/dominant function when the dom function switches it on. in any case the dominant function is what makes the primary decisions that is basic in any variant of jungian typology. 

Hence why an ENTP can defend a wolly foreign belief system on the fly in a debate, change opinion over night and reinterpret all past data to that end etc. but that is specific of auxillary Ti not all Ti. In an ENTP your auxillary spits out ever new all new such logically consistent frameworks at the whim of your dominant Ne. 

So Ne doms change their opinions very fast and are often constantly wondering if they’re mistyped - even when they know that this is common for Ne doms they still could be wrong and as Ne doms they primarily see the world as “coulds”. Since they have little Si they are not likely to give past experiences much weight and take longer to “retain” tendencies anyways so their opinions are not particularly inert especially if their gut fix is not nine. 

I mean think of it: Ti is an introverted function. It uses an internal framework to make decisions which it constantly mantains. New problems are either quickly decided based on past categories or require a slow introverted process of reorganization.  In an INTP, Ti is in charge and flips Ne on when needed.  Dom Ti fits everything into one big central framework which is the main organising principle of the person’s mind. 

When new data or queries are encountered the ENTP would first go to Ne and look at the possibility, examine it in its own right, and then later create or look for a logical framework that fits it. The INTP would go to Ti first, that is, try to fit it into that big preexisting net work. And only if it does not fit will it be reorganized, “Oh, I was wrong, so what else could it be? * activates Ne” 

 First time someone presents you with a possibility you will examine it but you won’t reexamine something from the ground up if you already “know” the terrain and have a strong detailed framework that explains why the person may think that even though you don’t think it’s true. You’re still open to changing your mind but a threshold of unaccounted data must be crossed before reevaluation will happen. That is how dominant  introverts work. It’s not stubborness its not reinventing the wheel twice. 

Its not uncommon for INTPs in particular to “miss” data that does not fit their framework at times and need some time to change entrenched beliefs. And again that’s not just me saying it that’s very common info with a simple cause: the way in which dominant Ti tries to fit everything in a preexisting framework first and then maybe changes. Really not making any wild controversial claims here. Also we have more Si than ENTPs making the ideas more inert for better or for worse. 

To summarize: 

Dominant Ti doesn’t change at the drop of a hat like aux Ti especially in conjunction with tert si

Citing sources is basic rhetoric not Te the difference is in HOW the sources are used

The difference is in focus on the object vs begin of thinking inside the subject

in the end there’s only so much sense in discussing my thinking with a stranger who isn’t a telepath. I know my head but how would i prove that to you? 

(See the common apologist spiel about”All nonbelievers secretly believe.” Me: *feels no belief* actually no. - but how to I prove to someone what is or isn’t in my head, especially if their worldview doesn’t even allow for the possibility? Same with being in denial. How do you prove youre not in denial? especially when both no denial and denial can produce the answer “No im not?”.  )

Person A: You talk only about yourself!

Person B: No I do not`?

Person A: You’re doing it again! ... but you can’t answer a quetion anout yourself without mentioning yourself. Its the other person who mentioned you in the first place. So IDK if anything will even come of this except another hour of my life going out the window.