#alterhuman packer discourse

[mechanical-sunchild]

To give my thoughts on this 'packer discourse' thing, the main issues amount to false equivilancy and engaging in the 'think of the children' logical fallacy. None of which makes a credible or viable argument.

A fake animal phallus is not the same as a real one. Producing them does not indicate that the company/person wants you to go out and touch real animals or be attracted to them in any way. Believing so purely based on the idea that one may be aroused by these dildos or are producing them in sexually aroused states is false equivilancy.

But we're not even talking about dildos to begin with, we're talking about packers. These are by and large items whose only function is relieving the genital dysphoria of those who need them. If for some that includes an 'aroused' looking aspect, you have no right to judge either the one making them or the one desiring them. There is no issue here which isn't you making those leaps to something false.

'But they're being sold to minors...!' Oh won't somebody think of the children?!

Let's say minors are buying these things. Firstly - minors have the right to wear packers and relieve genital dysphoria.

Secondly - these packers are not being marketed explicitly to minors or to minors at all for that matter. Not all of them show arousal and even the ones which do are not being marketed at minors. Minors may buy them. Minors may get the adults they live with to buy them for them. These minors are intended to use them to relieve dysphoria. They are not intending to use them for sex, regardless of how they look and they are not being made for sexual use. Calling producers disgusting because a minor may buy them when they're not being marketed at minors at all, and indicating a minor is somehow being abused if they chose to buy one because they wanted it, is wrong of you.

You are allowed to consider it strange and not to your taste, but you have to realise it is harmless. It is harmless because the phallus' are not real, the producers are not actively calling for living animals to be abused, neither are the wearers regardless of how the packer looks. It is harmless because it is not being made for minors, incidentally a minor may see or choose to purchase one, to relieve their dysphoria. Minors have the right to wear gear that relieves their dysphoria regardless of what that gear is.

What a being has in their pants, be it a minor or not (and really you should be a lot less involved in what is going on in a minors underwear), to relieve their gender and/or species dysphoria is really none of your business. Calling for packers of any kind to be disallowed and using fallacy's to justify it doesn't make you someone with stronger better morals than supporters, it makes you a reactionary with a lot of prudish hang-ups to work out.

[moth-yea]

Ookay abt the animal packers drama (TW FOR ABLEISM/ABLEIST LANGUAGE, ANTI THERIAN, PHYSICAL THERIAN, AND HOLOTHERE LANGUAGE. TW FOR MENTIONS OF ZOOPHILIA/DISCOURSE AROUND ZOOPHILIA. THE TOPICS WILL BE SEEN IN THE SCREENSHOTS IM SHOWING.)

Here's some screenshots of comments on a yt community post from a popular creator telling people to dni if you support the person who makes the animal packers (image id in alt text)

I'm speechless right now. Genuinely. It's all making my mind spin. For now I'm just going to say a few things, might add more in rbs later.

1: Minors can have packers (imo). They're for dysphoria, there's really nothing wrong with them. Maybe it's sort of iffy, which is understandable and I completely respect beings who think that minors shouldnt be allowed to have packers, but honestly I think teenagers are allowed to have packers if it helps them so much.

2: This isn't zoophilia. In any sense. This being was making and selling these purely as species affirming gear. It wasn't advertised as anything related to zoophilia/beastiality. They (from my knowledge) weren't even hyper-realistic.

3: The last person targeting physical therians and therians who experience delusions is using logic. I just can't fathom. Being a physical therian and/or having delusions as a therian doesn't make you a bad being.

4: I obviously respect you if you personally think this (animal packers) is a bit of a strange thing to do, I obviously respect you if you personally don't want to have an animal packer. That's fine, and that's just your opinions and feelings. The only thing I would criticize someone for is if they are calling something that makes another being feeling better about their body disgusting, vile, zoophilic when it isn't, "too far", the reason why therians get so much hate along with physical therians/ therians that expirience delusions/holotheres, or pornographic.

That's all we have to say for now, we'd appreciate it if you add your thoughts/insight in rbs/comments (not forcing of course, you're free to do what you wish with this post).

[crittertangles]

Animal packers in my soup

Monkeys and rabbits loop de loop

[who-is-page]

-watching discourse about alterhumans and packers float by me like an iceberg-

Look, I'm gonna be honest, the people bitching about what silly silicone shapes people put in their undies are fuckin feds. They're trolls at best, cops at worst, and still fundamentally not worth the time of day either way.

Don't waste your time yelling at brick walls like those guys; use your annoyance and spite as a jumping off point for talking about the ways you love your own gear, or how you enjoy the process of making it, or how seeing other people with it has made you feel. Pictures of your gear, or your friend's, or drawings of your dream gear. Anything like that. Your thoughts and opinions deserve genuine engagement from people who actually care, not heckling or harassment from some concern-trolling sealions whose life goal is to make you feel shitty.

Joy shared with others into your community is joy multiplied. Growls aimed at the guy tapping on the glass of your enclosure to piss you off are reasonable, but it's not worthwhile to do for long when you can shut the blinds and go hang out with some friends instead.

[unknownwildsoul]

Originally I wasn’t going to post anything from me specifically about the discourse over animal packers currently going on, but. Someone I follow [another alterhuman] on Instagram just posted this and I just felt the need to share because it rubbed my fur the wrong way.

Of course they’re completely within their rights to say this because it makes them uncomfortable, but the fact that it’s becoming a precedent that it’s evil, bad, and makes you a zoo is. Not great.

They are also in the… younger age demographic, which might have something to do with it, but still. The separation and the difference in ‘culture’ between apps within the therian community is… astounding sometimes.

[fangsnclaws]

I think people who are talking about the nonhuman packer discourse, but use "packers aren't sexual" as their primary defense of and reason why nonhuman packers are okay, are actually entirely missing the point of why this discourse is a problem.

Even when people do consider packers sexual, it does not change the fact that a nonhuman packer is still just as acceptable and harmless as a human-shaped packer. Something being nonsexual does not put it on the "morally acceptable" side of the argument. A lack of sex or sexuality does not make something inherently more acceptable and morally "pure." Sex and sexuality is morally neutral. Kinks are morally neutral. A lot of people, alterhumans included, are sexual beings, and genitals are (usually) a part of that equation - yes, even when they are tentacles or have a knot.

Thinking that weird things are only acceptable if they are nonsexual is a harmful puritanical and anti-queer mindset. Just because something is not your particular cup of tea does not mean it is harmful; yes, even when sex is involved. Especially when sex is involved. This is the exact same discourse that happened in the furry fandom; which has historically been hated because of how queer the community is. Considering the altH community is overwhelmingly queer, why the hell are we okay with bending the knee to anti-sex puritans as soon as something is more involved then missionary PIV sex with the lights off?

Nonhuman packers aren't okay just because "packers are nonsexual." Nonhuman packers are okay because there is literally no harm being done, regardless of if it is sexual or not. And worrying about what strangers do with their genitals is unhinged. Analyze your own disgust reactions I promise you that you will be better off for it.

[solarwavejuice]

okay so we've found the answer to why there's packer discourse in the alterhuman community. uh. do you want the answer or do you want a cat picture we found on pinterest

I mean sure I guess, can I pick both

[paracosmic-gt]

I'm not on tiktok, I don't look at tiktok, leave tiktok to tiktok. Here on Tumblr needs to be a break from tiktok, I get that everyone wants to share opinions but you don't have to. It is okay to ignore tiktok and tiktok discourse from those people who share it.

It is okay to not be constantly up to date on what people hate about you or your identity today. Animal packers, physical therians, yadda yadda...you probably need a break. We all need a break from being examined for who we are. I know you wanna fight for yourself but lots of the time it falls on deaf ears and isn't gonna do much. Best to ignore instead, especially if it's really hurting you.

Those who want to for education purposes, do what you want, but for the average alterhuman it's probably better for your mental health to let people do what they do. 9/10 times you're preaching to the choir also.

This is from someone who does generally fall into the line of fire, I understand. I also understand it feels better to not waste your breath or typing on them.

This is the only time I’ll bring it up, and I don’t want this to blow up to anything, just, making a post to say that I think a lot of us focus on the TikTok community and drama too much… it’s not good for your mental wellbeing to stay in a hostile space and engage in discourse & with people who are never going to listen to you. It’s not even good for you to post about how awful TikTok is here on tumblr, or how much you dislike the brand of community there, just…. Leave. Ignore it. Save yourself and your mental capacity. Ultimately it also makes the tumblr community feel toxic as well because it’s brought over here and I see it so much.

Serious issues like ableism and racism of course needs to be discussed, but not in a “look at what they’re doing over on TikTok, look at what this being is saying, look at these kids,” and so on way. That’s not productive.

I’ve just been in so many communities that devolve into this I really want the tumblr side to be a good space.