#all my posts have a little jonsa in it

[bookjonsadaily]

can you recommend some book jonsa fanfics? Not really that many on going in ao3

Hey anon!!!

Here are some more recs for you!!

the first are from nepobabyeurydice:

if you try to break me you will bleed by @dialux

time travel fic with Sansa, but it’s always the first fic I recommend to friends because the development of Jon and Sansa’s relationship from her holding all the cards, to him swearing herself to her, and then Sansa letting him see the whole deck is genuinely beautiful to read!

love exists in many forms by @dialux

In which Alayne Arryn, only daughter of Jon Arryn, commits suicide after her father dies in a failed attempt at rebellion, and her handmaiden, Sansa Stone, pretends to be her when faced with death. Sansa arrives at King’s Landing and finds herself betrothed to Prince Jon Targaryen; but their relationship is complicated by old secrets, new loves, and treason.

my head is bloody and unbowed by sadhippe

In which Robb’s baby survives, Sansa never marries Ramsay, and Jon is held captive at Dragonstone. Also more Tully’s and other Northern Conspiracy Faves!

and recs from visenyashill, who is going to do one of longer fic when they have the time and energy to actually read fic in a little bit, so these are mostly one shots-

in the midst of the ruins by iday

jonsa fic, post war for the dawn. while living out his days out of sight and out of mind, jon gets a raven from winterfell with only two words: "come home." so he does. brienne and podrick are also there. very cute, contained little story, and an older jonsa fic.

varg-hamr/wolfskin by undercovercaptain

this one gets rec-ed a lot but for good reason! a take on jon's ressurection and sansa as the girl in gray that i think is well done and also roughly what i predict will happen (leaving room for some crazy grrm-ness tho, obviously)

saw you in the snow by sleepingwithwolves

another girl in gray esque take but with bran coming to sansa in a weirwood dream as well as jon. i love this one a lot, i you will see i have a weakness for jonsa fic that features another starkling.

no smooth road by maybethrice

rickon pov where jon and sansa recall him from hiding on skagos when he’s twelve, to be the new lord of winterfell. it’s a “dany stops the long night” canon and i like it for delving into the difficult tie of the political situation.

ghosts by sansawolfbits

jon travels to the vale to meet with the lord protector and finds someone he didn't expect. very short but cute also myranda cameo.

i lost all signs so i got lost by tempisfugit

The five people who wanted Sansa for who she reminded them of and the one who just wanted her.

stealing by just_a_dram

jon steals sansa. this is the first jonsa fic i ever read and this author was super prolific with book canon jonsa in like....2016? ish? so if you're looking for book canon stuff, I would definitely start here!

a boy in his cups by greenhikingboots

a re-imagining of jon's first chapter in agot where he knows the truth of who he is and drunkenly proposes to sansa.

a stark in winterfell

it's not super romantic, more tortured than anything, about sansa needing an heir and seducing jon snow - and neither of them know about his true parentage.

[alaynestcnes]

“evidence upon evidence upon evidence” and it’s just chapter order and stuff like “oh jonnel is definitely the same as jon” (which is basically saying alysanne is the same as alys) or val being blonde means she could be redheaded in certain lights. it’s still all a REACH so no evidence for romance

Looks like you have some gaps in your jonsa knowledge so I’ll help you out a little 😊

A good place to start would be the jonsa compendium with at least 18 points of independent in-text evidence (not including the broader fun stuff like lotr lit parallels). We can also talk about the multiple allusions to Sansa being betrothed to a Targ (not including the ashford tourney theory already included in the compendium); here, here. Some other little tidbots I enjoy (a la 'blood of winterfell', jon/joff parallels, little in-text parallels, and too many others to mention) are in my parallels tag.

There are the BNFs/theorists who have speculated on jonsa; Alt Shift X and Adam Feldman have both found Jonsa to be significant enough to mention. They’ve been invited to have dinner with GRRM, and he has said Adam Feldman ‘really gets’ asoiaf. So, I kinda hold these theorists as just a bit more credible than whatever the twitter/reddit stans have to say.

And I know you brushed off the chapter analysis but let’s remember that GRRM has said that he is very particular about the sequence of scenes and chapters. So, it’s not absurd to say that the construction of the chapters is something that we should be paying attention to. Ignoring that is fine but don’t pretend like it’s Jonsas reaching, when it’s just your own blind bullheadedness. That being said, here’s an almost never-ending post analysing the in-text Jonsa parallels and references. And then here there's how whenever Jon or Sansa's chapters have a focus on love and marriage, then the other will almost always closely follow.

That's my little english lit seminar done, but I hope you're not too tired bc we've still got our AP hisory and political science class to go! GRRM has stated before that class is important (especially in relation to marriage) and he hates medieval-set stories where the highborn lady happily runs off with the stableboy. So, it's safe to say that Sansa will not be marrying any old glup shitto the fandom wants to pair her with. Her range of suitors is very, very limited. "Jonnel is definetly the same as Jon"...well, if the shoe fits? Like it just lines up too well, it's just a bit cheeky of GRRM to sow issues of northern succession in ASOIAF, all while providing a precedent for an inter-Stark union as a solution to a very similar issue. You could also make the case that Jonnel/Sansa is more of a foil for Jon/Sansa than a direct parallel (as instead of Jon marrying Sansa to supercede her claim, Sansa will choose to marry Jon in order to secure his position after Targ reveal). And really, is this anymore delulu than something like the Jon/Tyrion/Dany three heads of the dragon theories you see around?

Anywaysss this is just a fast and loose run down and better people than me have developed more comprehensive archives of the ever-extending jonsa meta universe, so please supplement your learning with some independent study: here, here, here.

So yeah…the evidence is a little bit deeper than Jon/Jonnel or Val/Sansa. I’m not trying to preach but calling Jonsa out on a lack of evidence or that we’re reaching for anything is giving very much illiterate on your side. If you wanna come into my ask and be a hater again pleassseeee at least do your research first. Next time there will be a quiz before I take anything you say seriously.

[crimsoncold]

AEMONDSA: A crack ship with unexpected depth and appeal

A treatise (in four parts) on the intriguing parallels and complementary contrasting of Aemond and Sansa and the subsequent allure of them as a romantic pairing in Fanfic

- from the perspective of a sansa-stan, jonsa + sansa-centric multishipper, and someone who is generally Targ critical

Now while my general stance of "ship and let ship/don't worry so much about what other people in fandom focus on or ship/etc" still stands i wanted to do a little write up on what I've found so appealing about this particular crack ship.

Not to justify it (again fandom and shipping in general is just about enjoying/thinking about fictional characters and scenarios... no one needs to justify why their imagination likes to think about two characters interacting romantically) but because there isn't a ton of metas addressing the interesting parallels between these characters and the appeal of them as a ship so I wanted to make one so the handful of people who do ship it get to see some more positive engagement/responses to this pairing.

I just unexpectedly ended up loving this pairing so much and I always have a particularly strong urge to contribute to fandom content on the rare pairs/crack ships that I like....So here have a deep dive into the parallels, and contrasting but complimentary aspects of Aemond and Sansa, and the unexpected appeal of Aemond x Sansa as a pairing in fanfiction...

PART 1: MY EXPERIENCE WITH ASOIAF/GOT & HOTD FANDOM AND WHY AEMONDSA IS A PLEASANT SURPRISE

So I'm going to be drawing from both book and show elements when I consider and compare Sansa and Aemond's characterization and plot arcs (particularly since this tends to be how they are handled in fanfic- which all have differing combinations of book or show canon for both characters)

(this is a HOTD S2-free zone though... HOTD's writing has certainly not improved and it's inconsistencies even compared to their past writing and characterization of many characters including Aemond has made such an absolute mess so for this post I'm ignoring the worst part of HBO's attempt at making hotd fanfiction i.e. S2- and I am basing my understanding of Aemond on a combination of what can be gleaned from book canon and s1 because that was what initially interested me AND because that is what the aemondsa fanfic I've read has also been based on)

Now Just to set the scene for my journey as a stark fan, jonsa shipper, and generally targ critical person to become an appreciator of aemondsa...

GOT had a steep decline in quality in the later seasons and HOTD despite the incredible effort of the actors/sfx people was not particularly good to start with in terms of writing/storytelling...yet disappointing or poorly written shows are not without their appeal for participating in fandom and reading/writing related fanfiction, particularly when there is a handful of interesting characters-looking at you stark kids who suffered through the writing of GOT's later seasons and HOTD's team green-that fans want to rescue from the terrible writing/butchering by the showrunners and to explore alternative stories/endings for them... sometimes it is even one of the most appealing sort of set up for fandom/fanfiction to take over and fix things.

I was already a huge Sansa fan, and she was the original draw for me towards asoiaf/got fandom and fanfiction, and while jonsa has been and remains my favorite pairing for her I've always been open to dabbling in various other sansa pairings/crack ships.

(While the parallels don't take the exact form as the ones between Sansa and Jon- and obviously aemondsa isn't accompanied with the incredible foreshadowing and potential that jonsa is- this pairing still feels similarly compelling due to the sheer amount of parallels between the two characters and for the fact that its a ship that is appealing and seems quite fitting without fanfic writers having to stray too far from canon personalities/back stories to make them work as a romantic pairing- beyond you know the obvious aspect of them being alive at the same time)

When HOTD first came out and before i discovered Ameondsa was a thing I was staying away from HOTD fanfic for the most part despite my interest in a few of the characters

HOTD's most predominant focus in both it's fandom and fanfiction seemed to be Rhaenyra/Team black/ Daemyra centric- all of which I was at just personally not drawn. Aemond (hot dramatic anime antagonist transported into hbo's HOTD and personal favorite of mine) centric fics unfortunately tended towards shipping him with various TB characters or TB OCs but both as a concept and due to the handling/set up these fics were generally not appealing to me (more on this later).

Furthermore hotd fandom itself seemed to be shaping up into a new edition of targ stan centric fandom- specifically a new "team black only" brand of stanning... which is definitely not something I am interested in.

Being someone admittedly anti targ/targ critical in general who just happened to be more intrigued (and sympathetic) to the greens in HOTD it did seem that the bulk of hotd fandom was probably going to a similar if even more extreme form of what I encountered with targ-stan segments of the GOT fandom as a sansa-stan/jonsa shipper (ie. Less posts/fanfic that i would personally agree with or be interested in from these fans and potentially hostile and unpleasant responses or takes from the majority of these fans)

As a result of my general avoidance of hotd (i.e. the very pro targ/pro TB fanfiction that hotd fandom offered) Aemondsa, already an extremely rare pair and crack ship, wasn't even a pairing on my radar until one of the authors i was subscribed to started a hotd time travel fix it aemondsa fic...I have an appreciation for well written crack ships, and I am willing to give most pairings or fandoms a chance when I'm already a fan of either the story's main characters or of the author specifically ...but I was actually incredibly suprised how compeling Aemondsa was as a pairing in this story..as well as how much I enjoyed the other Aemondsa fics that I checked out afterwards..it seemed this was a niche segment of hotd fandom that i was going to absolutely obsessing over.

There was a lot of depth to them for a crack ship, which was achievable without altering their personalities and backstories very much from canon (dont get me wrong I love crack ships even ones where people and the plot are altered significantly to make a ship feel possible but there is something uniquely compelling when characters fit together without having to be too ooc) so I just wanted to write a bit about what is so fascinating about this ship since it's such a new rare pair that hasn't accumulated a massive audience or a ton of discussions or write ups yet.

PART 2/4. THE SURPRISING AMOUNT OF PARALLELS BETWEEN SANSA AND AEMOND (FANDOM, PLOT-WISE, but most of all regarding FAMILY)

(Uh ....Brace yourself? this section ended up way longer than expected)

For me the initial appeal comes down to intriguing Character parallels between Sansa and Aemond which fanfic at least offers the opportunity to explore in a story format ....

On a surface level they are (in the shows particularly) both intelligent and underdog figures with fantastic little sassy moments - true queens of dealing out backhanded and cutting compliments, or being unapolegetic critical towards some of the flawed and extremely privileged individual's they encounter who are used to receiving only coddling and fawning worship.

Both characters seem to get shit treatment, sometimes from the fandom other times due to the terrible choices/handling by the writers/showrunners.

Both were characters I personally found interesting and sympathetic despite how fandom- some of it for aemond and a significant amount of it for sansa- had deemed these essentially young and still innocent characters worthy of being reviled and harmed for the ways the adults in their lives had set them up for failure or abuse. Forever dismayed by the way they (unlike certain fan favorites) were somehow never deemed by fandom as deserving of sympathy for the horrible things that happened to them, and how notably they never recieve the same feverent forgiveness/understanding/support for their more dangerous or dark actions the way other characters did

Looking at the difference in fan responses to show!Arya or Dany compared to Sansa- though when it comes to the sheer amount of violence, destruction, and murder or the act of threatening their kin obviously despite what Sansa-antis say Sansa is the only one who should not even be part of the discussion, and how Dany or Arya always recieves excuses, sympathy, forgiveness, or outright praise from the core audience for their more questionable actions while somehow Sansa is deemed as the unforgivable, dangerous, evil, traitorous, and foolishly reckless character

How Aemond (and all of TG really) are set up and considered by TB stans to be unworthy of their house/rightful inheritance and the ones most at fault for the onset and destruction caused by a civil war... never victims mistreated or endangered by the more privileged and powerful members of their family... just the people who only ever deserved what was inflicted on them by TB for the crime of being forced to wed a disgusting and neglectful King or for being threats to Rhaenyra's family or throne simply by existing? How the morally questionable or violent actions of Rhaenyra, her sons, or more particularly her uncle-husband will always be seen as either justifiable, in the right, excusable, or literally worthy of praise the way Aemond's and his family's actions will never be viewed by this core audience

I think about how much like segments of asoiaf fandom bash Sansa by deeming her too southern/too Tully/Too Catelyn-like to be a real Stark (unlike her "truly northern" siblings) their are also segments of hotd fandom that have chosen to see Aemond and his full siblings as only Hightowers who are wrongfully stealing from TB/the "true Targaryens"

But there were even more striking parallels when it came to their characterization and plot.

Both younger (non heir) children, presented as being intelligent, incredibley dutiful and studious, with a very close relationship to their mother, in a sort of intense people pleaser manner - trying their best to excel at all the skills/duties that their parents/society deems necessary for their position and sex because that is the way they receive acceptance, attention, or praise from their family/the adults in their life

Aemond and his studies, his apparently dedication and success in training with the sword despite his own disability, his determination and recklessness to finally become a dragon rider like the rest of his Targaryen family- as it is what is expected and what he has long been mocked over by some of his targ kin, how despite his own ambitions and the way he thought himself particularly suitable for rulership he remained the dutiful and loyal younger brother who served as regent for his gravely injured older brother but did not attempt to stylize himself as King and steal Aegon's throne.

the way that Alicent seems to be the only family member he allows himself to be vulnerable with, the one with whom he turns to for consolation and comfort, Alicent being absolutely devastated and incensed over the loss of Aemond's eye and the lack of punishment for the assault on his person, the only one to demand recompense, the only one to raise a knife to the blacks when she is denied, how Aemond is the one person who tries to console his mother in the aftermath, how despite having just lost an eye he is the one who actually tries to sooth his mother to bring a stop to the increasing and dangerous level of tension and conflict that had erupted between the blacks and greens at driftmark, Aemond's own longstanding protectiveness of and devotion to his family- most especially his mother- that lasts until his own demise.

Sansa and the way she thrives and enjoys the type of world and training that is more of a noble woman's or specifically her mother Catelyn's domain- unlike her wilder other siblings she is generally a steadfastly proper and gentle girl- no doubt a comfort to her mother not just because she is generally so well behaved but in the fact that unlike her siblings she is not shown to be obviously or very publically close with Ned's illegitimate child- who for Catelyn would be the literal personification of Ned's infidelity, the disrespect and humiliation he puts her through by raising him in their house along side their children, and her deep seated fear that he loved and will prioritize another woman and her child more than his own wife and family.

Sansa is the child who seemed to love all things "southern" the most (though undeniably despite how Sansa is looked down upon for her love of romantic stories and song her other siblings also certainly enjoy legends and tales of Knighthood or Southern Princes and warrior Princesses) and to be fascinated by the environment her mother is from, the one who is drawn to and practice her mother's faith in addition to keeping to the old gods,

How Catelyn though she truly grieves letting her daughter go seems to accept it not just because her belief that Sansa would excel as a princess and future queen but because she thinks Sansa would thrive simply through getting to experience the south...Catelyn seems to grasp the things Sansa dreams about and unlike many other family members she does not view Sansa and her interests with the same condescension, dismissal, or disdain.

Catelyn loves all her children immensely but there is something so tragic and beautiful in her love for her daughters, the desperate lengths she is willing to go to to ensure the saftey of both of them while the lords/males in her family have already given them up as a lost cause and inevitable and necessary casualties in their war for vengeance and northern independence

Despite this affection though there is a lot of pressure on both of them... almost to the point that their treatment by the adults in their lives has a bit of a "parentification" dynamic- a manner that sometimes puts the onus on them to be a support and a comfort to their mother amid any tension in the family/marriage (Aemond) or to be the perfectly behaved role model or minder for their less dutiful siblings (Sansa)

Sansa, in everyone's eyes a lady at three and a queen destined to be, the determined effort she puts into excelling at being studious, accomplished, proper, and ladylike, how much she tries to exemplify the behavior praised and exemplified by her mother and her septa

set up by the adults in her life as a go between for the stark sisters...used as the benchmark for their demands and expectations of Arya, being held up as the bar for perfect, proper, and praise worthy behaviour that Arya is presssured to also attain, the daughter who gets censured on the few occasions she acts out while her younger sister typically gets away with her poor behaviour (at least when it comes to their parents)... Sansa isn't just under the pressure of the exacting expectations for a lord's daughter she also experiences the stress of being put in the position of exemplar for her wild untractable younger sister.

Aemond, apparent dutiful student in many areas expected as a child of nobility, who is expected to support Aegon in his rulership and war and (in the show) even takes responsibility for trying to keep his older brother in line, the one who after losing an eye takes the effort to comfort and console his mother's grief and rage when their father does nothing in response to an attack on Aemond other than threaten and intimate his wife and his children with Alicent in order to support his firstborn daughter, who becomes the human equivalent of not just a wrecking ball but a literal weapon of mass destruction sent out on behalf of the advancement of his family or later to enact terrible bloody vengeance on his family's behalf, his life his purpose and his death is all for his family's sake more than his own.

They put so much effort into being well behaved, to reach the exacting standards for a child in their position, setting an example for the less obedient/well behaved sibling(s) all of which in turn adds to significant strain or conflict between said sibling.

Sansa and Aemond are the sibling expected to and determidly striving to live up to the high expectations that the adults in their life put on them and to survive the extremely dangerous and high stakes scenarios they are put in (as a lord's daughter, prince's betrothed and future queen, a hostage and target for the machinations and ambitions of others, the older sibling, a ruling lady, and elected queen; a prince, dutiful son and brother, ruthless and dutiful defender of his family, and regent)

Meanwhile they have other siblings who struggled to meet said expectations or have given up attempting to all together (Arya, Rhaenyra, or to some degree Aegon)

Siblings who must from the perspective of Sansa and Aemond (who are still young, inexperienced, and have had a great deal of conflict with said siblings) seem to flaunt all expectations free to rebell, flaunt the rules, and generally ignore the high pressure expectations that children from their class face.

Undoubtedly frustrating since, much like their more rebellious siblings have failed to sympathize with the more responsible ones, Ameond and Sansa too have not (yet) been able to recognize the ways their less successful/dutiful siblings also suffer under the highly restrictive expectations of their class and position even if they do not choose or succeed in conforming to them.

They see that despite how they may excel in studying, striving and succeeding in their roles, and ultimatley exemplifying the high standards they were raised to it is these other siblings who seem to get rewarded (experiencing in their eyes at least what appears to be more freedom, less pressure, minimal censure or punishment for their misbehavior... while simultaneously receiving the bulk of the reward in terms of their inheritance, the attention they recieve, or even with regards to the amount of affection given by some of the authority figures in their lives, i.e. their fathers)...

To them it must seem that these siblings get to be not just easily forgiven for their mistakes and misbehaviour, but accepted as or outright adored simply the way they naturally are, whereas dutiful and non problematic children like themselves tend to be overlooked or underappreciated, and quickly criticized on the rare cases they misbehave... the acceptance and affection they recieve appears far more conditional on them behaving well according to the expectations of their family or various instructors/minders... whereas the affection their siblings receive, from say a certain parent, is show to be rather unconditional

Seriously they both give me such severe "easy" (i.e. overlooked) and "gifted" child trauma vibes... how much of their behavior is simply in their nature and how much is what they conform themselves to to make the adults around them proud... because as the quieter child or apparent outsider amindst their family/siblings this is the only action that comes natural to them and gets them some (hard earned) attention/praise in a rather large and loud family they otherwise seem a bit lost in... how much of their striving to succeed is dependent on the sincere belief/understanding that their saftey and potentially the future, saftey, and wellbeing of their family depends on it.

They both have a far more distant relationship with their fathers who favoured another sibling- a sister over them... father's who either didn't seem to know how to connect with them - Ned- or never really bothered to try- Viserys...

while i do believe Ned loves his children and they adored him in return i feel its obvious that he neglected in preparing any of them for the true dangers and realities of the world away from the satey and protection of winterfell and their Stark family, and he absolutely dropped the ball on keeping either of his daughters safe and supervised when he took them along into a very dangerous situation in kingslanding

Furthermore Ned never quite seemed to connected with or pay attention to Sansa they way he did with Arya... just something about the fact that when he follows the orders of his king/supposed best friend to kill Sansa's direwolf (the very symbol of their house) it is in replacement for Arya's Direwolf who was allowed to escape the cruel wrath of the Queen and Prince...and how he continues to fail Sansa in the aftermath

It's something about the gifts he gives his very angry and traumatized daughters to comfort them after- in lieu of truly trying to actually connect with and console both of them or to even properly mediate their increased fighting.

Arya (in the show and book) is given lessons with a "dancing" master who teaches her swordplay/water dancing, she was so excited and she always wanted to be outside learning to fight like her brothers got to, in this moment to her understanding she is not just seen by her father she is accepted and supported (a careful reader may see that Ned's attitude appears to be slightly condescendingly indulgent on the matter of her learning swordplay... but Arya gets the chance to do something she loves all the same)

Meanwhile (in the show) to try to console Sansa Ned gives her... a doll? (Honestly I can't recall any equivalent gift from Ned to Sansa in the books? the mention of her possibly getting harp lessons in Kingslanding was actually a promise Catelyn made to her on Ned's behalf rather than his own effort... and was something that Ned didn't actually ever arrange in the books)

But is this doll meant to be an appropriate gift to make up for the death of her direwolf? Is this gesture enough to comfort her and make amends after Ned killed her direwolf (notice its not exactly as spectacular, meaningful, or comforting a gift as arya's "dancing lessons"... certainly there is no indication that he has any particular understanding of Sansa or has given much thought into her talents, interests, or personality beyond the most shallow perusal)

In the aftermath of Lady's death Ned does nothing to truly protect Sansa or keep her away from the obviously dysfunctional and dangerous family he has promised her away to.

Yet he can take the time to comfort and have a frank conversation with Arya about how important staying together and supporting eachother as family is- especially when they are amongst dangerous people who mean to harm or separate them- and the specific importance her and Sansa will have to one another as sisters who share the same blood... further explaining how just as they will need eachother Ned needs them as well

Ned has no such comforting or distinctly meaningful exchange with Sansa... he doesn't explain the reality of the Lannisters/Joffrey/Robert (i.e. the truth of the people he has agreed to give his young daughter away to despite the fact that he either personally has no respect for most of them or has not been around them long enough to know anything about their true nature)

Yes it is the risk to his daughter that makes him willing to falsely confess to treason, yes eventually he decides its best to send his daughters back to winterfell, yes he finally wants to break the betrothal and he makes a beautiful promises to make her a match with "a high lord who's worthy of [her], someone brave and gentle and strong" ... but he is much too late to get both of his daughters away from the lannisters/kingslanding, way too late in his attempt to keep them safe, and he fails to handle Sansa with age appropriate respect and frankness and to actually tell her how dangerous things are in kingslanding and why joffrey (false prince -bastard born of incest) is such an ill suited match.

Maybe if he had put any effort into explaining things to her...or simply spending time with her, speaking to her, trying to understand her, comforting her amidst the loss of lady and the increased fighting with Arya, or doing literally anything other than just neglecting her and her saftey Sansa would have actually trusted his decision and seen it as him wanting what was best for her.

Maybe if he had been more proactive and focused on his daughters well being he wouldn't have brought both of them south after the altercation over their direwolves... or maybe he could have been successful at getting both his daughters out of kingslanding before everything went to hell.

Its almost like the whole point of the Ned/Arya/Sansa and the Ned/Cersei/Sansa dynamic isn't to show that Sansa is a naive girl who betrays her family for the lannisters but is instead to show that when you neglect your child emotionally they will turn elsewhere for comfort and will be particularly vulnerable to being manipulated or abused by other adults... its almost like this part of A Game of Thrones is more about the way even someone like Ned- a man who does strives to do what he thinks is right and a parent who does loves his children- can still fail.

Ned's treatment of Sansa is specifically intriguing, though i don't know if it will be addressed specifically since her relationship and dynamic with Ned is one that much like Robb ended with his tragic and unjust murder (leaving behind a grief stricken Sansa helplessly longing for the return of her family and home, grieving with a near devotional regard for her lost father and brother)... Sansa will never get to confront or reconcile with them over the many ways she was let down and left unprotected by her male relatives- and who knows if a traumatized and grieving Sansa will ever even recognize and admitt to herself the ways the people who she loved the most failed to live up to her expectations of them... how clearly that despite their love for her she was rarely their first priority ... how they both seemed to fail to follow their family mottos ... the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.... family before duty or honor... she was family yet duty and honor came before her in Robb's eyes... she was part of a pack but through Ned promising her to a marriage in the south, in him taking her and Arya away to kingslanding, in him failing to prioritize her saftey until they all were practically already on the chopping block, and in Robb abandoning any hope or plan of rescuing her she truly was abandoned by them ...to be a lone wolf without a pack to help her survive

Then there is Viserys who at the very least had a much stronger regard for Rhaenyra than all the kids by his second wife ...but can also quiet easily be accused of outright neglecting and mistreating them

The lack of guidance holds true for all his children really but with Rheanyra at least it is accompanied by an (ultimatley harmful) spoiled indulgence that he offers only to his eldest daughter- covering up her obvious blunders and threatening anyone who would speak the truth of her questionable actions and her children's legitimacy including his own wife and sons ... going against traditional succession not because he wants to promote first born succession/succession by "merit"/or treating daughter equal to sons in terms of inheritance or anything like that but because of guilt and unashamed favoritism.

Viserys refuses to give to his son what westeros society at least would deem as Aegon's birthright, while also failing to make arrangements for any his non-Rhaenyra children to have a future and saftey separate from the throne.

He doesn't arrange matches with other kingdoms and give them allies, protection, family, independence, or a power base independent of the crown/hightowers instead leaving them dependent only on the crown, vulnerable targets to be handled (i.e. no doubt killed on the orders of Rhaenyra and/or her uncle husband Daemon) as living they would remain the most significant threat to the legitimacy of their rulership.

Viserys looks the other way when Aemond specifically is permanently maimed by Rhaenyra's son...his only action after his son loses his eye is to threaten his second family, to intimidate them into staying quite on the topic of the legitimacy of Rhaenyra's children before he deems the matter concluded... as if the worst part of that altercation was Aemond calling them bastards rather than say four children ganging up against one and how one of these children attacked using a knife and cost the other their fucking eye?

That for Aemond more than anything must cement his understanding of his father's feelings about Aemond and his full siblings and mother. To Viserys they simply matter less than Rhaenyra and her children.

In fact their well being or saftey matters less than even an offense made to Rhaenyra's reputation... which shows Alicent and her children without question that they are in danger from the blacks and the King will do nothing to prevent the blacks from trying to severely physically harm Aemond or his siblings, and in fact that there will be no punishment for the blacks when they succeed in doing so.

A civil war between the blacks and the greens was inevitable... Viserys actions of protecting and favoring Rhaenyra while also not ensuring she is instructed on and practices/proves her ability to rule, willfully ignoring that she violates her own vows and that she passes off her obviously illegitimate children as trueborn heirs, of permitting her not just to inherit (and position her illegitimate son as the next heir to) what most considered the birthright of her brother but also for her to steal the birthright of her own cousins by supplanting them with her other bastard and demoting them to being simply their brides/consorts, him keeping her as heir not just after he has multiple trueborn sons but also after Rhaenyra gets remarried to the exact violent bloodthirsty man that so many feared and Viserys himself had previously removed as his own heir in favour for Rhaenyra.

Viserys doing all of this while still choosing to remarry and have MULTIPLE children with his new wife... the neglectful and disrespectful way he treats his second family... all of this ensured that the death of some (if not all) of his children, via either assassination or in outright civil war, would always have been inevitable.

There is so much hatred, fear, distrust, and tension between Viserys' family members... and not only did he fail to intervene or improve things he was the one most responsible for it ....so much of the environment Alicent lived in and Aemond and his full siblings were raised was permeated by not just a sense of deep injustice (particularly in Aemond's case with his treatment by not just the blacks but his own father) but also an undercurrent of desperate fear over what will happen to them and their family in the wake of a brewing succession crisis

The mommy, daddy, and sibling issues are so strong with these two and I'm so obsessed with how the complicated family dynamics and tragic family losses that Ameond and Sansa experience echoe one another in so many ways...there is just so much love, grief, rage, unpacked trauma, and hurt in them and I am always obsessed with stories that allow the narrative or characters to address such trauma.

PART 3/4. THE CONTRASTING AND COMPLIMEMTARY ASPECTS OF THEIR STORIES (SUFFERING AND GRIEF)

They were both were so young when they became targets of the wrath and dislike of powerful and corrupt "Queens"

Sansa who loses her direwolf at the demand of Queen Cersei, a queen who after long being abused by her own husband sees a perhaps more extreme form of that sort of violence in her own mad son being directed at Sansa, who rather than expressing or experiencing compassion or sympathy instead takes the chance to revel in the destruction of Sansa's innocence, to mock and emotionally abuse Sansa when she has lost her father and her only protection in Kingslanding, leaving her a hostage of war at the mercy of a violent and corrupt royal family

Aemond who after losing his eye to an attack instigated by Rhaenyra's children receives no apology or recompense...instead his own sister asks for her mutilated little brother to be tortured sharply questioned due to the offense he caused by accusing her sons -accurately mind you- of being bastards... Aemond and his siblings who were never truly ever treated by Rhaenyra as her siblings only ever the offspring of Alicent and thus obstacles and threats for her (and her uncle's) right to the throne.

Both were physically harmed or tormented by (or with the approval of) young members of royalty, with very little being done to intervene, stop, or punish those involved despite their own highborn status- which would generally deem them unacceptable targets for such abuse.

Young Sansa a hostage but still a high born daughter descended from two of the seven ruling houses in westeros, The Warden of the North and the Lord Paramount of the Trident, and niece/cousin to the rulers of a third kingdom, the Lord Paramount of the Vale. Who while under the "care" of the crown is tormented, stripped, and beaten in open court at the behest of a mad boy king... forced to look upon the severed heads of her father and household, forced into being an unwilling child bride to the house of her family's enemies, who is molested and threatened with sexual assault on multiple occasions

Prince Aemond son of the King who is mocked by his brother and nephews (or his king and father in the books) over the fact that he hasnt yet claimed a dragon, and when this makes him reckless enough to approach and claim the largest dragon in existence the torment doesn't stop it gets dangerously worse as the tension between the children of the blacks and greens escalate to the point of a violent confrontation between Aemond and his nephews and cousins... and the resulting loss of of his eye when one of his attackers brings out a knife. None of the children who banded together to attack Aemond would face any consequences, only Aemond himself and his mother and older brother would censure and outright threats from their King Father and Older sister. Whose earliest sexual experience- done at the behest of his older brother- was implied to be at the very least coerced, traumatizing, and humiliating- if not outright non consensual on his part.

Both Sansa and Aemond face a terrible sort of loss when they begin losing their family members to mass civil war ...often in a manner that is distinctly horrific or against all laws of decency in the 7 kingdoms

her father Ned unjustly executed for treason and whose decapitated head is displayed and used to torment her, her younger sister Arya gone missing for years and long thought dead, her home sacked and younger brothers Bran and Rickon supposedly murdered by her family's ward- a boy who grew up alongside the stark children- the burned/mutilated heads and bodies of two young boys being being put on display at winterfell, her older Brother and Mother slaughtered when their traitorous allies and bannermen men break sacred guest rights at a wedding, both their bodies desecrated in a mockery of their houses... Robb decapitated his direwolves own head placed ontop of his body while his enemies parade his remains around, her mother Catelyn's throat slit and her body dumped naked in a river and left to rot.

(In the show) Rickon being cut down before his siblings eyes by a madman who betrayed their house and had tortured Sansa herself, her "half brother" Jon betrayed and murdered by his men and later sent off into a lonley exile away from his family and home for the "crime" of taking out an invader who had just committed mass murder... Sansa being left to rule the north all alone with many of her family members long dead and the surviving ones being set on a path away from the north/winterfell while she is left to handle rulership in isolation

Aemond who after commiting the first Kinslaying of the "war of dragons" by attacking his own assailant and nephew Lucerys proceeds to lose all of the family that he loved.

Starting with the tragic murder of his innocent young nephew at the behest of his elder sister/uncle- who arranged for his mother Alicent to be attacked tied up and forced to bear witness to the gruesome murder of her grandchild,

His sister Helaena -who plead for her life to be taken to spare her son- forced under the threat of the rape of her young daughter to choose which of her young sons will be murdered. Only for all of them to be traumatize further when they kill Jaehaerys and leaving Maelor the son she "chose" to die to survive with the message that his own mother wanted him dead... the emotional torment this caused the whole family but most of all his sister who refused to eat, bathe, or look upon her remaining son due to her immense feelings of guilt

his older brother Aegon who has lost his son and heir, and whose sister/wife is in a grief so deep she cannot care for their remaining children, who is attacked and maimed but survives to live on in total agony,

the murder of Maelor, Aemond's remaining nephew at the hands of a mob

Aemond's last stand, sacrificing his dragon and his own life to take out his Uncle (the biggest threat to his family and the orchestrator of Jaehaerys' brutal murder)

The many tragedies that continued after Aemond's own death- his sister's eventual suicide, the death of his younger brother Daeron, his oldest brother outlasting all of his siblings and his own two sons only to be taken out by poison once the war is over, his mother spending the last of her years in confinement until she passes from sickness,

His niece Jaehaera, after the loss of her entire family, married off as a child in the name of "peace" and dying young and alone- of suicide or murder

There is just such fascinating potential when two characters would have so much mirroring grief and trauma ...there is such an undercurrent of helpess rage, guilt, and grief to them in their youth and a undoubtedly a feverent desire for either vengeance or justice against the many people who harmed them or slaughtered their family...

And here is where things begin to differ between the two in interesting ways

with Sansa who has these violent wishes/impulses but is not in a position to see them fulfilled herself- her desire to push Joffrey to his death even at the cost of her own life, her wish that someone will throw Ser Meryn Trant down and cut off his head, her hope that various people will fall/be unhorsed...

Sansa who recieves a direwolf, Lady, the very symbol of her house and potentially a companion that would have offered a connection that was an extension of her own soul only for Lady to be cut down so quickly and unjustly... Sansa who loses not just the connection/companionship she recieved from Lady but also the protection such a bond would offer her ... she is left vulnerable in so many ways and has no promise of reuniting with her own direwolf later on... that will never be a comfort or form of security offered to her after all the danger and trauma she experiences

While Aemond, who spent much of his young life similarly helpless to act or respond to insults and assaults on his own person or immediate family, (that his father/king either never deemed worthy of interference or punishment... that is when it wasn't the King himself who was the perpetrator of such offenses) unlike Sansa experiences a change of fortune in the form getting to bond with the symbol of his house

He gains (and gets to keep until his own death) a bond with a different sort of mythical beast companion... a dragon and as a result recieves all the potential for power and destruction that comes with being a dragon rider

By claiming Vhagar Ameond is the closest he will ever be to untouchable, not just from the harassment he personally experienced from his family but with regards to how grave and dangerous a threat/target he had now become for the blacks during the dance of dragons

Aemond now a dragonrider of the largest living dragon, a child and later teenager who is in control of the narrative equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction, and he is no longer held back from acting on his anger once the rule and interference of his neglectful father king is over,

he is in control of the most massive beast of pure destruction and unlike Sansa, who for now in the books- or for much of her story in the show- remained an unprotected hostage or pawn in the hands of those who mean to harm or use her... who handles her trauma very internally as she is not in a position to fight back, and must rely on her words, intelligence, and ability to read and strategically interact with people as a way of defending and keeping herself safe, Aemond is now in the position to enact every bloodthirsty impulse of revenge he ever experienced

He was held back from enacting vengeance only through his own will, which ultimately proves not enough- he commits the first kin slaying and soon the actions of each side escalated into a horrific bloodbath where nobility and small folk alike suffered or die en masse

While Aemond's story may be one of family devotion and loyalty, mistreatment, injustice, and suffering that ends by showing the terrible outcomes of revenge and uncontrolled cruel brutality Sansa's story feels like one where grief, rage, and mistreatment exist but where family, love, compassion, kindness, justice, and integrity will win out in the end.

Sansa was certainly developed into a more discerning strategic and ruthless figure in the show but justice, duty, and forgiveness were still very prevalent in her storyline

she does have ramsay killed in a fittingly horrific manner, but she later holds a public trial for littlefinger- who was responsible for much of her familys suffering, the death of her father, and her own torment and rape- before she has him executed,

She feels compassion and forgiveness for theon the man who had betrayed her family and drove her young brothers out of their home, who only after experiencing significant torture himself became devoted to protecting the remaining starks and was able to find the courage to disobey his own torturers in order to help Sansa escape,

She possessed a concern for other people that few ruler do in asoiaf/got... speaking up against Joffrey's cruelty even as a powerless hostage, being the person concerned with the more practical matters of caring for and feeding their people during a harsh winter- a notable development in comparison to say everyone else just focusing on battle tactics and the upcoming battles (as though feeding an army is not an essential part of warfare), and the invader who just burned westeros' food stores en masse and now expects others to feed not just her armies but also demands that her dragons be fed "whatever they want"

I think in the books however that despite Sansa's internal grief and rage and her burgeoning political acuity there will be a gentler end to her arc where her own innate sense of duty and her (now more discerning) sense of compassion will win out in the end when she takes back her name, identity, and birthright ... that she along with her surviving family will have justice administered in the name of their lost family and people... efficiently bringing down righteous and necessary judgement on those that harmed and betrayed them rather than simply dealing out some form of mass, bloody, cruel revenge on her enemies (I'll leave that for lady stoneheart) ... and that a satisfying ending for her and the other starks will balance them realistically addressing the dangers and betrayal they faced with their own personal resolve to hold true to the values imparted to them by their parents.

... yet after all her suffering (and the frustrating lack of trust, consideration, or support she was given by her own family in the later GOT seasons) there is something darkly appealing to the idea of her getting (not a hero precisely) but a ruthless and devoted sort of monster to support her and bring down unholy vengeance on her various tormentors

PART 4/4: THE RESULTING DRAMATIC AND EMOTIONAL APPEAL OF AEMONDSA FICS

This after their many parallels and complementary contrasts is what intrigues me the most...the interplay of a potentially wary, cautious, traumatized but still duty and justice oriented person and a companion or lover who is comparatively more ruthless, unhinged, capable of atrocities, and who is more equipped to dole out violence en masse... (guys the pipeline from dark jon/dark jonsa to aemondsa just makes so much sense)

the question in Aemondsa fics of what will win out in the end- the shared grief and rage or them both controlling/channeling such impulses into strategic righteous fury and justice is always fascinating... and most of all the idea of Sansa (after all the trauma mistreatment and grief she has experienced) attaining the interest and eventual devotion of someone who despite being capable of monstrous actions is also incredibly loyal, devoted, and ruthless in the pursuit of their loved ones interests ("I want you to put out your eye ... plan to make it a gift if it to my mother" indeed) is just as appealing as the idea where an isolated, lonely, traumatized, grieving, and dangerously angry young man like Aemond gets to find acceptance, affection, companionship, and belonging with an intelligent strategic but more importantly an exceptionally compassionate person like Sansa.

Its just a dynamic far too intriguing to ignore especially for someome who already loved Time Travel/Reincarnation Fix IT AUs in fanfiction

While emotional catharsis and Sansa returning home and having the dreams she had wrote off as impossible be fulfilled (i.e. building a loving partnership and marriage, having children with someone who loves and wants her more than her claim itself, reuniting with her family) is something I love- and what I want to happen in canon (hence my otp being Jonsa)- there is always an interesting/guilty pleasure aspect of fanfic where Sansa (or the Starks in general) get to wreck terrible bloody victory and vengeance on those who betrayed and butchered their family and people (not really the ultimate message or point of the book but definitely emotionally satisfying in fanfic)

Just like there is a sort of appeal that exists in hotd fanfic that is sort of the opposite ...ones that alter the violent senseless and tragic trajectory of the dance of dragons... to either change the course of a brutal civil war or prevent it all together

and the Aemondsa pairing's time travel or reincarnation fics provide an opportunity to explore both of these diverse dynamics.

Sansa will always deserve the world... in canon and in fanfic i want to see all her dream and hopes come true whether it is with a truly good and just partner with whom she gets to build the life and home she always dreamed of or through her getting her very own devoted monster who would do anything to keep her safe from the scores of people who wish to misuse or harm her

and I always wish that hotd fanfiction offered more Aemond centric fics with a love interest that you know actually likes, sympathizes with, or understand him? He feels too tragic a character for me to want him to experience the typical hate and love (enemies AND lovers) treatment he tends to get in fanfic... its not really satisfying for me seeing his typical pairing up with whatever team black character (or really TB character rewrite) or some Daemon's or Rhaenyra's daughter OC that is the frequent choice for aemond centric fics...him being portrayed as some impusive awful and villainous love interest who changes sides and abandons his family just to be with his lover/obsession feels so out of character in a way that erases the best, most compelling, and sympathetic parts of his canon personality, motives, and actions.

Luckily Aemondsa fics seems to be a pairing that offers everything I like in Ameond or Sansa centric fics....

In conclusion Aemondsa is surprisingly compelling and versatile dynamic in fanfic and I think that is why I've become such a fan of Firesteel/Aemondsa fanfiction (in a way I'm NOT at all a fan of the actual HOTD show writing lol)

I'm a proud support of crack ships/rarepairs and I'm always willing to add to the fandom appreciation of pairings that gets less attention or fandom related works... so expect to see the occasional Aemondsa fanart/fic recommendation post from me amongst my typical jonsa content (in fact expect one in the next in a day or so)

Otherwise I just hope established Ameondsa fans (or people who haven't ready any aemondsa fics but are fans of either character/curious about this pairing in general) have enjoyed seeing me fangirl about these two characters/this crack ship and feel inspired to check out or even make their own Aemondsa content!

-Crimsom Cold

[kellyvela]

I was looking at some Jonnel x Sansa posts on here , and I came across one individual (probably an anti) who posted a screenshot of a grrm interview. He was asked about possible historical parallels from fire and blood to asoiaf and whether that is intentional and he said he doesn’t consciously do it. The tags of their post was something like “grrm: Jonnel who??” While I’m a little worried that grrm said that, the interviewer was specifically asking about fire and blood, not a family tree. And no matter what, I’m still very convinced the Jonnel x sansa addition was intentional, it must have been - Jonnel having a stark mother called Lynara , known as ‘one eye,’ a half brother called Rickon, married to the only other sansa stark ever who just so happened to be the heir to Winterfell with a younger sister . Their marriage solving the northern succession crisis. Not having children from this union, meaning grrm added it in merely to convey a jon married a sansa in canon. The last minute addition; revising the draft JUST to add it in…. It can’t be a coincidence !!! I mean, there’s even a rhaegar frey with a son called jonos… that’s all intentional in my opinion - but now that I saw that anti opinion, this one interview is what they seem to cling to lol. I went on a massive blocking spree so I’m not sure if this is wholly the case but seriously, the similarities are tooooo intense it’s impossible to ignore

Oh I know that post, and I also know that GRRM interview.

That OP doesn't like jonsa, and call shippers "freaks."

That tag was: "[grrm voice] Who the fuck is jonnel stark" (🤡)

The interview in question is this one:

The GRRM answers in question are these ones:

Ashaya: So we were talking about how working on Fire and Blood is history and it’s very different to write. One thing that we like to highlight in our show is something called Parallel Lives, which is the idea that there are parallels in your histories to current characters. George: You stole that from Plutarch, didn’t you?  Ashaya: Yes. Yes, exactly.  Aziz: Absolutely. I read those all when I was a lot younger, fell in love with them, so good catch. I love to apply it to A Song of Ice and Fire.  Ashaya: So we’ve observed it in A Song of Ice and Fire. Have you found that in like writing Fire and Blood, that it allows you to maybe play with plotlines or arcs for the characters in the main series? Do you do that consciously?  George: No, I don’t.  Ashaya: You don’t!  George: It’s not consciously.

But the thing is that GRRM didn't end the matter here, he went on to say the following:

Ashaya: Interesting.  George: Certain similarities are inevitable.  Aziz: That’s for sure. George: If anything, I try to veer away from that, cuz I don’t wanna feel like I’m repeating myself.  Ashaya: But history just naturally repeats itself, so…  George: Yes, there are certain resonances in history, there are certain universals about humanity, people competing for power, people competing for love, lust. All of these things…  Aziz: Some of these things are a constant.  Ashaya: Sometimes people are like, that’s a stereotype or that’s cliche, and I’m like that’s because it’s true to the human experience, it’s just true.  Aziz: A person with a lot of power being paranoid? That happens a lot. That also applies a lot to real world history, or to homages. What about when you’re writing in an homage? For example, one of my favorites you’ve included in the Nightfort scene with Bran, there seems to be a lot of homages to Tolkien and the Mines of Moria in that scene, which I love a lot. Do you aim to do that or is that also accidental or maybe you have some thoughts on your process there?  George: I love Tolkien, and actually the Mines of Moria is one of my favorite sections of Fellowship of the Ring. And that’s my favorite of the trilogy, Fellowship. Not that I don’t love them all. I don’t think I was consciously trying to do that, but again, you don’t know. You read these things and they lodge sometimes in the front of your brain, but sometimes in weird corners of your brain where they pop up at some point. I did wanna make the Nightfort a sinister place, with its own legends. It was very old, it’s a very big castle crumbling. And I wanted to give it that sense that so many things have gone here. Now, which are true and which are not true? I always tend to look at not only other fantasy books and history, but like the real world here. Get me in trouble here for what I’m about to say, but we have these legends that some people believe are literally true in our religion. We talk about the Garden of Eden. Was there ever actually a Garden of Eden? Was there Adam and Eve or the flood? Noah and the flood. That’s a good one. That’s a great story. God was pissed off, he made it rain for 40 days and 40 nights. The entire world was flooded and everybody died, except for this guy Noah, who built a big boat and he got two of every animal on earth. I don’t know how the kangaroos got from down in Australia to the Middle East, but they did. 

See, anon? GRRM didn't say he doesn't do parallels, he said he does them unconsciously, that some things remain in his brain and some day just appear again and he unconsciously writes parallels, similarities, patterns, etc.

He also recognizes that certain similarities are inevitable.

Besides, from his answers, it is obvious that he has realized that he does parallels unconsciously, it is evident that he has reflected on it; but one thing he does consciously is to keep them 😉

~~~

All that said, I think the jonnel/sansa addition to the Stark Family Tree was consciously on purpose.

~~~

BONUS

Q: It is my impression that there are parallels between Westeros history and current events in ASOIAF. so in your opinion to what degree is George martin's history cyclical? Because we have a lot of parallels. For example with the current history and the dance of the dragons.

Elio: You know George even uses that line from talking about the the arms of house Toland, the dragon eating its tail, but it was from the Archmaester Rigney which is a reference to Robert Jordan the writer of the wheel of time, that history is a wheel or time as a circle. I think George certainly deliberately sees, creates parallels. I mean this is a very obvious example, you know if you read The World of Ice and Fire, you saw the family tree of the Targaryens, and the family tree for Jaehaerys and his offspring changes quite a lot when fire and blood comes out. Because George realized that he wanted to create a kind of parallel by introducing another Daenerys. and he said like, i like the symmetry of it, I like the the sort of the way. You could perhaps read it as reflecting on Daenerys's story, maybe. I wish it was true. I mean I think fans of Daenerys need to be really worried about what's going to happen to her. Although I guess Game of Thrones maybe has revealed kind of where things may possibly end. Again the journey is going to be very different. I think you know circumstances, things are going to be very different. So there's a journey that matters. But in any case, so yes I think George uses cycles and things a bit. He likes setting up parallels of events, he likes paralleling characters, he likes paralleling events, and he likes paralleling the past and the present as well.

Linda: I think certainly that when he fleshed out the details of Fire and Blood, even when he first did the sidebars for The World of Ice and Fire, and they just grew. We could see that, okay here he's looking at foreshadowing or commenting on current events by doing a similar scenario in the past and he definitely likes to play around with those aspects.

[Source]

Read more about it here:

~~~

Maybe it's not that unconsciously sometimes . . . .

🤭

[lavalais76]

Jon & Sansa | Winter in my Heart

I am simply obsessed with these 2. All the Metas and Fan Fiction from you beautiful kindred souls makes me feel so alive! I appreciate each and everyone of you. @istumpysk and @esther-dot @starwarsprincess1986 @sherlokiness @stormcloudrising , you guys give me LIFE with your Metas.

I'm more of a book fan because the show did these characters no justice. We all know WHY. I hope you guys are ok with me posting all these sappy videos. Im sort of new to Tumblr, and I love it here. When I heard about the Kit and Sofie movie set at the time of "war of the roses" I became even more obsessed with Jon and Sansa.

They are obviously giving it away with this movie and trying to get the "Anti's" to get comfortable with the fact that these 2 are inevitable. Before Sansa appeared at Castle Black and even before the show begin I always wondered what the deal was with these 2. It just didn't make any sense, or as someone else put it: "Jon and Sansa are the LOUDEST SILENCE". I ALWAYS had that feeling that the girl in grey would be her. There isn't a single doubt in my mind.

I think something horrible will go down in the Vale and the Blackfish will help Sansa some sort of way to get to Jon. I read many Metas where they say Jon will come back from the dead a mindless beast, and he will have no POV. That's just impossible. Our main character/HERO a mute stuck in a wolf.

First of all I don't think Jon is dead AT ALL. I believe he is hanging on by a string due to blood loss and shock and possibly in a coma like Bran was at the beginning of the series. He will warg Ghost and find out many things about himself through Ghost while his friends (the wildings) nurse him back to life. Though VAL is not one of my favorite characters, some say she is a healer. That could be good for Jon.

Melsandra will probably burn Shrinee anyway because she thinks Stannis is dead. I also think Jon was drugged before the stabbings. The way he spoke of clumsily trying to retrieve LongClaw, and he just gave me a weird vibe. I DO NOT TRUST Satin guys. I know everyone loves him but if Jon were drugged, Satin always provided the drinks. Maybe I'm reaching too far, but that's just my gut feeling. Satin is Judas.

Cerci Lannister had plans on taking Jon off the Chess Board as well, so there is no telling if she orchestrated the whole thing or not. Whatever happens, it's gonna be real UGLY when Jon wakes up. Jon Snow as we knew him is definitely DEAD and died in the snow. The real BEAST is what we will have left of Jon. He will make the Hound look like a little poodle dog.

I do also believe he will be in those woods as Ghost while Sansa is being chased by Ramsay's hounds. He will definitely kill them all including whomever is with the dogs. There was a passage in the books if I remember correctly how when Ghost was a pup, and he was eating. A dog approached to try and steal his prize. Jon said the Dog was much bigger than Ghost, but all Ghost had to do was look at her and she ran away. Ghost got right back to his prize.

I've always wondered if that was a foreshadowing for Ghost fighting the hounds. Another thing, WHERE do Ghost go when Jon wonders of his whereabouts? Well, I'm almost done here Jonsa family. I hope I'm not boring you guys to death with this long book of a post I am writing.

I DO believe Sansa is the Girl in Grey and I'll die by that. I also think that after Ghost!Jon saves her, Brianne and Jamie or Brianne and Company will get her to Castle Black. The dying horse in my opinion is not a real Horse. It could be a person. We've already had the real dying horse with Alyas. Sansa doesn't have to be dressed in Grey either because so many other things links her to Grey.

I remember she had a green cloak in Kings Landing that belonged to the hound and if I'm not mistaken she also got on the boat with LF with that cloak on. Where is it? I do not know.

Anyway, Sansa will arrive at Castle Black shortly after Jon wakes up from his coma (refuse to believe he died and actual death) People will SAY he rose from the dead as they did Sansa when she left Kings Landing. It will be a myth, but people will believe it. Jon will NOT be the same. I believe he will have all of his memories which preserved in Ghost but he will become "THE BEAST" After he has "killed the boy." He would have tapped into his powers and possibly converse with Bran and Bloodraven.

Jon will probably forget what happened in the woods and in his wolf dreams but he will have the shock of his life to see Sansa Stark of ALL people come through those gates. She's come to the end of the world to seek HIM out. He will realize it was the wrong sister he almost got murdered behind.

Everyone will fear him at Castle Black. He will be a cold blooded killer with no humanity left until she walks through those gates. It's a craving Jon had (to see her again) but he kept that to himself. We know this from Ygritte, Alays and Val. He was looking for Sansa in all these women, and now the real deal stands right before him.

I'm not saying it's going to be an easy journey, but she will be the ONLY ONE to calm the beast. Jon will protect her of course (or steal her) but he will be mean to Sansa at first. He will eventually fall madly in love with her and vice versa. She will sing to him, annoy him, anger him, pacify him and Jon won't know what hit him.

They will fall in love because of what they both endured. Jon will be OVER protective of Sansa in the books, possibly locking her up in a tower like Stannis has Val, but this time there is a real princess in the tower that Jon WANTS to steal. I know I've reached my limits here. I am sorry for rambling or any errors, I'm just so happy to have ran across you fine people. If I didn't tag someone is because I don't remember the names and I'm still fairly new on Tumblr.

You guys are the BEST!

[reginarubie]

hi I don’t know if you still do request tumblr prompts, but if you’ve lurked in the jonsa tag there was this post shared about a person asking if an adopted son can marry the daughter of the family that adopted him and I was wondering if, inspired and have time. Could you share a dabble or even dialogues with that in mind?. I don’t know, maybe literal conte yes or Jon posting this and people find out it’s him, anything really haha

Oh nonny, why not?

Aragorn married Arwen, though.

The first one to approach him, if one would believe it, is Rickon.

Jon was there when Rickon was born, small, shrieking and red haired. He had been there keeping hold on Arya to avoid she jumped on all the furniture of the hospital room in her excitement.

His little brother leans closer to him a couple of days after as he swings his backpack on his shoulder and as he munches on a protein bar, “Yes” he whispers, his breath smells of nuts, without offering further explanation. Then he smirks like Theon does when he’s about to whore his way out of some mess, and leaves.

Jon remains awestruck, and uncertain, on his feet at the isle of the Stark’s kitchen. He isn’t usually home this hour of the day, not since he’s moved out, but Ned needed helped with the tree-house and Jon needed a day off to get his hands dirty anyway.

Ned keeps looking at him strange all day, and Catelyn studies him with a knowing grin from the kitchen window, and when she brings out some apple pie for them during mid-morning, she takes great care to state that Sansa made it, with much love.

Jon chokes on empty air.

Ned is helpful enough, despite the way he has looked him all morning, to pat him on the back and tell him something that should sound wise and resigned but make Jon only feel uncomfortable.

He’s never been uncomfortable since the Stark officially adopted him when he was fifteen; and after helping set the table he skips — two steps at time — upstairs to find refuge in his old room.

Bran is there. Bran’s mischievous grin, as if he has Jon precisely where he wants him, makes him almost bolt for the door. But Bran is smart, and that wheeled chair is more flexible than he thought because he manages to reach him and knock him on the bed by grabbing him by the hem of his shirt.

“So,” Bran says “you want to marry Sansa, and have her babies. Or would she have yours?” he questions.

And that’s how he learns that all the Starks (barred Arya who is in Braavos for a fencing competition and Sansa who’s in the Vale busy with fashion school) have read his post.

Fuck.

“Would it make you want to hit me less if it was Arya?” he tries to smooth the tension that Bran has unnecessarily created.

Bran’ eyes narrow, “You want to marry my sister, have her babies or she yours; and you want to cheat on her with my other sister?” he demands and Bran can be pretty scary when he wants to, okay? He takes it after Catelyn.

“No…” Jon practically squeaks, and when Bran cocks his head on the side he hastens to add “no one is having anyone babies!”

“Yet!” Catelyn shouts from downstairs, “and until that is true, come down, lunch is ready!”

Bran snickers as Jon helps him down, “And I would not cheat on her,” Jon tells him, offended.

Bran doesn’t stop snickering and Ned is making a very peculiar expression where he’s sat at the head of the table.

“Don’t worry dear,” Catelyn tells him as she pats him on the head as she did when he was a child, “Sansa doesn’t know, yet”

Jon looks helplessly at Ned, his bastion. His father.

Ned just takes a deep breath, and stands up abruptly “We need something stronger than water for this” he states, moving toward his liquor cabinet.

“Eddard Stark stop there!” Catelyn shouts, “Doctor Luwin said…”

“I don’t care what Doctor Luwin said, woman” Ned replies “our son needs it, and to be frank, so do I”

What follows is perhaps the most uncomfortable lunch since that time that aunt Lysa’ new partner Petyr Baelish came visiting after uncle Jon’s death.

In the end though Catelyn sends him off with enough food to last him a week and promises him everything will be fine, “We knew,” she tells him and at Jon’ doubtful look she smiles, “I knew,” she amends, “and perhaps Bran, that kid knows far more than he tells. And Rickon is more perceptive that you’d think… perhaps, only Robb and Ned were not in the known”

Jon wants the earth to swallow him up, “And Sansa, but Sansa is always wilfully blind when it comes to you, so”

“Can we… pretend this never happened?” he pleads. Catelyn never looked more motherly.

“Of course dear, whatever you need”

But since Jon is an unlucky bastard, of course they can’t.

Arya just sends him a text, “My sister? You can do better” and then adds “actually, so can she” but then sends him a married cat couple sticker and they don’t speak of it further.

So perhaps they can really pretend it never happened.

Only, they can’t.

Robb ambushes him outside of his work, when Jon really thought that perhaps he had not given the matter any thought.

“We need to talk” straightforward as always.

“I’ve had a horrendous day, Robb. Can we save this for another time?”

“It’s about Sansa,”

Jon’ patience has grown thin since Rickon has kept pestering him asking to be flower boy.

As if he isn’t taller than him, to Jon’ vast dismay, and looks like he’s twenty-four and not sixteen.

And Bran keeps questioning his intentions.

And Arya hasn’t stopped sending him nauseated gifs all day long.

Even bloody Theon knows. And he and Catelyn keep trying to reign in the others by teaming up in their effort to tease the hell out of him.

He’d like to smash Theon’ face in, since his foster brother had once the very same problem when it came to Sansa. He’s been restless. Always making importune questions at the most importune times.

“Yes I’m in love with her, no she doesn’t know. No, no one is having anyone’s babies and no I would never cheat on her,” he lashes out, walking around Robb and completely missing his brother’ grin and the glint in his blue eyes.

“Wait a moment, Sans, I’m going to put you on speaker,”

And if Jon believed he has ever been embarrassed. Well… he was wrong. He now is properly embarrassed.

“That’s very comforting to hear Jon,” Sansa tells him from the speaker “it means Robb and I’s ten year plan to get you to fall in love with me has finally born some fruit,”

There’s blinding light and then Jon is beaming, grabbing the phone from Robb’ hand as his brother grins like a Cheshire Cat.

That very same night there’s Sansa comment under his question, pinned above all other comments (all kind of comments and Jon is quite offended by some of them).

There’s a particularly nasty one that almost knocks the breath out of him and Jon is on the point to delete the whole thing altogether despite being too giddy to do anything now that he knows Sansa actually returned his feelings.

Aragorn married Arwen, though💅—SStark🍋

Because there isn’t much more to say to that, is there? Gods. Jon loves this woman.

Sooo nonny! Hope you enjoyed!

Sending all my love ~ G.

[greenhikingboots]

Jon’s Pre-Canon Crush

Okay, Jonsa fam. I’ve seen a lot of great posts, especially in the last few months, about Jon’s reactions to Val. Among them, there’s one particular vein I like to assume everyone loves as much as I do. That is, when Jon thinks of Val’s hair as silver vs. when he thinks of it as the color of dark honey. You’ve seen those metas, right? They explain the likelihood of Jon’s future connection to Dany being negative — The air tastes cold. / My tongue is too numb to tell. All I taste is cold. — while his future connection to Sansa will be positive — It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.

Well, in this post I want to expand on the angle of Val-is-sometimes-a-stand-in-for-Sansa. Only, I don’t want to speculate on what will happen between Jon and Sansa in the future, if we ever get GRRM’s last two books. Enough people have already done that, and they’ve done it so wonderfully that I have little to add. Instead, as the title of this post says, I want to focus on Jon’s pre-canon crush. More specifically: I want to focus on what Jon’s thoughts and feelings about Val say about his thoughts and feelings about Sansa.

But let me lay some groundwork first, okay? Until a few weeks ago, I went back and forth on pre-canon crush theories. I agreed they held a lot of potential and were a lot of fun to daydream about — a great premise for a one-shot, to be sure! Oh, and I’ve always loved it when people said things like, “Hey, Jon, your Targaryen is showing.” That’s classic stuff. But did I really think GRRM meant to hint at prior feelings rather than just laying a foundation for future feelings? Again, until a few weeks ago, I wasn’t totally convinced either way. But now I am fully committed to the Pre-Canon Crush Camp, assigned to cabin Jon-Had-Feelings-for-Sansa. [Did Sansa have feelings for Jon too? Ummm maybe? I think there’s some evidence to support that, but not as much. But, hey, that’s not the point of this post. Sorry. Moving on.] So what changed? Well, basically some ideas I’d previously had sunk in on a deeper level. It started with this post from @sherlokiness. It talks about GRRM commenting on a discrepancy in the books, two occasions where Jeyne Westerling’s physical descriptions do not match up. GRRM said the discrepancies were a mistake, a really unfortunate one because it distracts from the times when he intentionally included discrepancies of physical appearances. And basically us Jonsas loved it. Like, “Yep! Make sense! We assumed as much already, Mr. Martin.” And that’s because of the canon line mentioned earlier, right? You know the whole thing, don’t you? Oh, but you want me to quote it here anyway? Okay, fine, I’ll oblige.

They [Ghost and Val] look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white [bleh, bleh, bleh] …but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.

Direwolf. Lots of white. Suspicious ellipses. Blue eyes. Long braid the color of dark honey. Right, okay, got it.  [BTW. Did you know there’s also a point, early on, where Val’s described as having high cheekbones? You know, a feature Sansa has as well!?!?] Anyway, when I saw sherlokiness’s post about GRRM’s comments and the Jonsas relating it to that canon scene with Ghost and Val, I reblogged it. Naturally. And in the tags I said something like, “I’ll have to double check but I’m pretty sure the willowy creature line comes after this line. As in, maybe Jon knew exactly who Val reminded him in that moment and he was trying to talk himself out of his pre-canon crush coming back to the surface.” I’m paraphrasing here. My tags were probably not as clear as that. Also, I was being a bit facetious. It was a thought I’d had before, but just a passing one. Again (AGAIN! Do I say that too much?), I’d been going back and forth about pre-canon crush theories for a long time. But @agentrouka-blog saw my tags and was like, “You might be onto something there.” And then @zimshan saw my tags too and did the double check for me. Thanks! And guess what? GUESS WHAT, JONSA FAM!? I was right about the order. First, Jon sees Ghost and Val, thinks her eyes are blue and her hair is like dark honey, and it is a lovely sight. Second, this line:

Val looked the part [of a princess] and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.

But guess what else? The order isn’t even the most striking thing. The most striking thing is how closely these two lines appear to one another — within just a few pages!!! That's what zimshan said. So I went back to read it myself. Not just the two lines to check the order, but a little before, and a little after, and everything in between. If you want, you can do the same. It’s ADWD Jon XI.

Want to know what stuck out to me most? The willowy creature line actually seems… so odd, and out of place, and unnecessary. I swear to you. Let me try to explain.

Basically, by that point in the chapter, Jon has already clearly established his take on Val. She’s beautiful, everyone knows it, but she’s more than that. She’s strong and capable. She found Tormund and brought him back to Castle Black when Jon’s Night’s Watch Rangers couldn’t manage it. Like, Jon’s thankful for Val, okay? 

Oh, and he also seems aware that he holds her in higher regard than the rest of the men who keep calling her a princess even though she’s not one. I think he feels smug about it, to be honest. Like, he wouldn’t use these words because it’s ASOIAF, but he knows he’s a budding feminist and he’s proud of himself for it. Like, “I’m so much better than these asshats who don’t respect women and think all Val has to offer is her pretty face.”

How great is that? I love book Jon so much.

Where was I, though? Oh! Oh, oh, oh! This next part is key. Up until the willowy creature line, Jon has not had a single disparaging thought about Val. Val being cruel about Shireen’s greyscale hasn’t happened yet. But for some reason — *Getting too executed. Brain malfunctioning!*

AH! I SWEAR JONSA FAM! If you read the willowy creature in fuller context, it comes across as if Jon’s correcting himself for having a disparaging thought about Val, like he’s reminding himself of who she truly is. She’s a warrior princess, not a willowy creature. But like, why? Why does Jon feel the need to do this? He hasn’t had a disparaging thought about Val, so why correct himself as if he has?

Just because she’s beautiful? Just because he’s tired of other men calling her a princess? I mean, I guess that could be the whole story. That’s certainly how we’re supposed to take it, if we’re taking it at face value. But I’m not convinced. Go read it again, and I think you’ll see that when the willowy creature line happens, it actually feels like a weird logic leap.

The dots aren’t connecting because one dot is missing!!!! Let me put a pin in that for a moment while I turn to other mini metas in our Jonsa fandom. Antis like to say, “Jon doesn’t like girls like Sansa. He doesn't like willowy creatures, he said so himself.” But we know that’s crap, right? The boy who liked Ygritte’s gentle side? The boy who helps Alys Karstark by marrying her to Sigorn? The boy who dreamed his mother was a highborn lady with kind eyes? The boy who wanted to show his hypothetical wife Winterfell’s glass gardens and bath with her in the hot pools?

Yeah, that boy is a budding feminist, like I said.

So again I ask (AGAIN!) why would Jon — who is not especially critical of women in general and has not been critical of Val at all up to this point — feel the need to correct himself by thinking this critical thing about willowy creatures? In other words, why does he lift up Val by putting down some vague idea of other women he’s never had a problem with before?

Well, obviously it turns out that I believe my facetious, tongue in cheek tags more than I realized when I wrote them. My position is that somewhere in the two pages between ...a long while since Jon had seen a sight so lovely… and ...not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair… Jon realized Val reminded him of Sansa, he felt guilty and ashamed about it, and then felt the need to do damage control. And because guilt and shame are icky, confusing feelings, his damage control took the form of being critical of Sansa even though he isn’t normally critical of such women. 

Am I making sense? How do I explain myself further? Like, why am I so stuck on this idea Jon’s willowy creature line being two pages after the Ghost and Val looking lovely together line must mean Jon had a pre-canon crush?

I think the crux is what I said about the willowy creature line feeling like a weird logic leap — like the dots aren’t connecting because one is missing. The missing dot is Jon being aware that he’s mentally swapped Val with Sansa. He just doesn’t acknowledge this on the page.

Let me be extra clear. I’m now differing from several others who have written about pre-canon crush theories in that I think Jon was aware of his crush. I’ve seen many say it’s all subconscious. But this stuff with Val makes me think otherwise.

I mean, I know Jon has a pattern of dissociation. For him, thinking, and speaking, and acting from his subconsciousness is a common occurrence. So, yes, he could have subconsciously thought Val looked like Sansa and subconsciously felt guilty and ashamed and therefore subconsciously decided to do damage control by subconsciously reminding himself Val is a warrior princess and therefore not a willowy creature.

But I think GRRM was hinting at an exception to Jon’s pattern with these canon lines. Because if the first part is happening subconsciously — Jon thinking Val looks like Sansa and that it’s a lovely sight — then he wouldn’t feel the need to do damage control afterwards? If he wasn’t aware of thinking of Sansa in that moment, isn’t it more likely he’d just carry on with taking Val to meet Selyse, and the odd, out of place, unnecessary line about a willowy creature wouldn’t have been included? What else, what else?

I said earlier that I think Jon’s crush is an innocent, not sexual thing. Let me expand on that. And uuuuuhhhhh... let me clarify that I think that might be changing some over time.  My guess is when Jon was younger, his thoughts were more along these lines: “Sansa is pretty, and a proper lady, and everything men are taught to want. She’ll be a good wife for someone someday. Obviously not me. That’s sinful, I don’t want it, and I’m a bastard so I can’t marry a highborn lady anyway. But objectively, Sansa’s a good catch.” Which kinda matches how Jon thinks of Val at times, right? Like, she’s a catch but he doesn’t want her. He’s not taking Winterfell and a Wife because Winterfell belongs to Sansa and he’s a man of the Night’s Watch, dammit! But hang on a second. Sometimes Jon’s thoughts about Val are more elicit, aren’t they? He thinks about the size of her breasts and she’s the hypothetical wife he pictures romancing in Winterfell. Don’t worry, I’m not saying I’m secretly a Jon/Val shipper. What I’m getting at is this other thing we’ve talked about in the Jonsa fandom. Jone projects his general desires onto Val. He’s getting older. He’s unhappy at the Wall. Winterfell isn’t Robb’s like he thought it would be, and Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead. And Stannis is offering Winterfell and Val to him. Plus he’s now been intimate with a woman, Ygritte. So he knows that sex feels nice. All in all, Jon’s becoming more in tune with wanting Winterfell, and a wife, and a family, and wanting to fu—

You get the idea. ;)

Soooooo. If you buy into the premise that A) Jon considered Sansa a good catch when they were younger B) He’s thinking more and more about romance and sex C) Val is also a good catch and easy to project feelings onto and D) Woopsies, Val just reminded me of Sansa! Well, then where does all that leave Jon? Feeling like he needs to distance himself from positive thoughts about Sansa, right? But without ever thinking her name because of his pattern of dissociation and because GRRM is tricky like that.  Am I making my point clearer, or just talking in circles?  Like, I know plenty of people have already said Val is a switch-back-and-forth-stand-in-for-other-characters. The first two short paragraphs of this post mentions those metas.  But holy smokes! If Jon is aware of A-D mentioned above, that adds a fascinating layer of subtext to his scenes with and thoughts about Val.  Let’s talk about it forever!

Just kidding. I think I’m almost done here.  Basically, I think the willowy creature line is Jon knowingly saying to himself, “Yikes, the thoughts I had about Sansa in the past didn’t bother me much because they were 99% innocent. But they are less innocent now and that’s a problem! You can’t like Sansa! Don’t confuse Sansa with Val,  dummy! Val is a warrior princess! Sansa is a willowy creature and willowy creatures are bad!”

Okay, sure, Jon.  Let me wrap up with one more canon line.

Of Sansa brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

We often link this line to Ygritte for obvious reasons, but I’m now in the habit of linking it more to Val and the canon lines mentioned previously. I think GRRM wrote a the three lines — a sight so lovely + willow creature + of Sansa brushing out Lady’s coat — as a subtle continuation of one another. Us Jonsas saw the potential for underlying romantic feelings in the last one, that’s nothing new. But I want to add that it’s a direct contrast to the willowy creature line. As Jon is bleeding out, he can no longer be bothered to put up a front and pretend he doesn’t have feelings for Sansa, feelings that have gotten more complicated as of late.

Oh so subtle. Really not that much different than what others have said before me. But different enough I wanted to mention it. Now someone put it in a fanfic!!

[esther-dot]

I’ve always found it odd that in s8 Sansa started wearing her hair more like d@ny. Like that bun braid she’s got going on in the promos & those two little braids that frame her face at the dragon pit. I can head-canon that she chose to wear her hair like that in king’s landing for the sake of the unsullied. Perception is everything & their leader wore her hair that way—a strong woman capable of commanding an army; an intimidating woman. Sansa likely felt she needed to project an intimidating level of strength if she had any hope of securing Jon’s release & the braids could’ve been a way to subtly influence their perception of her. Meant to recall images of their leader & paint her as someone to be feared.

As far as wearing her hair the way she did at the start of the season…the best I could come up with is that she was doing it for Jon. And while it’s an answer I can accept (be still my jonsa-heart!) it doesn’t feel quite satisfactory. I’m wondering if you’ve put down any thoughts on this & might have something more for us to consider? Or perhaps a head-canon you’d like to share?

I remember this debate and there’s even an article about it,

(link)

But the idea that Sansa was copying Dany never made much sense to me because Sansa starts wearing the hairstyle before she’s met Dany? I think that Sansa's hair was meant to be a Northern style, and worked with the association of Sansa & Lyanna the show created (link).

Here’s a pic and another post about it:

(link)

And then in s8, looking at the hairstyles, even though there are braids in both, it looks to me as if they attempted to keep them distinct. Look how soft and loose Dany's is in contrast to Sansa's. Also, Sansa has a bun while Dany's braid is like a crown sliding off her head (ba-dum-ch!)

Even when I look at “Sansa’s war braids” at the dragonpit,

It doesn’t make me see Dany at all. She susually had two curls down by her face, but that was to soften her look, whereas Sansa's braids have the opposite intention. My main thought is that it’s weird the girl who wasn’t fighting got the armor-ish dresses while the two who were out there with the army of the dead did not! This may have been an effort to give her a totally unique hairstyle from the Northern cast, in prep for Queen Sansa?

I think the Jonsa implications would be in the Lyanna connection and the NedCat cosplay from s6-7. The fact that the finale rested on Jon’s (Targ) love for Sansa (Stark girl) makes me think there was some story-related reasoning back in s5-7 that carried through to the end even if they didn't really wanna follow-through on the implication. Making Jon appear as Ned and Sansa as Cat (the hairstyles are similar, not exactly the same but the script referenced the Cat thing at one point so it was intentional) also feels like something that was still present in s8 storywise. They were a unit, they did trust each other, but there was a lot of anxiety about that trust and pain about a perceived betrayal.

And in-world reasoning, I’d say that when in the South Sansa was trying to fit in at court so mimicking to greater or lesser extent the fashion made sense, and when she returned home, it made sense for her to start wearing styles she’d worn or seen as a girl.

(link)

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Yesterday, I made a post about how fans of some characters will makes posts, come up with theories, and write fics where they take attributes of other characters and give them to their faves instead of writing about that character's actual personality. I listed a few characters who I see this happen the most with. I did not say they were the only ones or that all fans of those characters do this.

Now one of the characters I mentioned was Sansa Stark, and apparently some people had an issue with that. I did not disparage Sansa in any way or even say I hate aus with her, I was just criticizing some of her fans. Well some people really didn't like that criticism and have been reblogging my post, calling me a whiny brat, a Sansa anti, and just generally trying to say I'm wrong, stupid, and hypocritical. Well some people (namely @brydeswhale) asked for evidence, so here it is (I'm not including Alicent, Jason Todd, or Tim Drake, who I also talked about in that post, but I guess they didn't read that far):

First off: here's someone who is taking Lyanna's parallels with Arya and giving them to Sansa. I understand that you probably agree with the above post though, so I got some others.

Here is a Sansa stan, and a Jonsa, taking a quote where Jon is specifically thinking about Arya and instead claiming it's about Sansa, even though Jon notoriously thinks about her very little.

Moving on from Arya, here's someone taking a prophecy revealed to Daenerys in the House of the Undying and saying that it's actually about Sansa. Even though Daenerys has already literally fulfilled the Mother of Dragons part and is two-thirds of the way through completing the Bride of Fire part. Plus, it's Dany's vision, how is it related to Sansa exactly?

Again, taking Dany's vision and imagery (even Jon's too goddamn) and giving it to Sansa for no reason.

Once again, this quote is specifically about Arya and Jon's struggle with doing his duty and going to save his sister (Arya not Sansa) by bowing to Stannis. It's Arya's marriage to Ramsay that tortures Jon throughout ADWD while he outright dismisses Sansa's to Tyrion (disclaimer: I don't ship Jonrya, if you do that's all well and good, just not for me).

Once again, stealing from Arya. "Valiant Ned's precious little girl" is a line used by the Northern lords who are participating in the Northern conspiracy. A plot to overthrow the Boltons and save ARYA not Sansa, in their minds Sansa is far away and has no bearing on the situation ever since her marriage to Tyrion.

This is a little more indirect I guess, but still, this is completely forgetting about both Dany and Jon's arcs. Daenerys is ruling a fucking city in a treacherous time and Jon is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch when while the Others and wights are advancing. How are they not learning to rule again? And I'm sorry, but Sansa is not learning to rule in the Vale, she is doing tasks a high-ranking lady does, yes, but she isn't ruling and Littlefinger isn't exactly interested in helping her learn.

[juuls]

Multi-Fandom Fic Recs

The @fanfic-reading-challenge gives me the opportunity to explore tons of fandoms I normally wouldn't, and I wanted to share some of my favourite so far this year!

Game of Thrones

and in the night, you'll hear me calling by shawsdavid | T | 10k | Jon/Sansa/Margaery: When you met your soulmate, touched them for the first time, you would see everything in all its colorful glory.

A Knight's Watch by DolorousEdditor | M | 670k | Jonsa: Jon Snow is forbidden to take the black by his father. Instead he sent to squire for a famous knight, beginning a long arduous journey that causes him to cross paths with characters he never would have. Along the way he learns truths long hidden and discovers love in the most unlikely of places. All of this in the shadow of the War of Five Kings and the coming of the Others.

Potterverse

Dancing with Draco by diamonddaydream | T | 19k | Dramione: Retelling of the Yule Ball segment of Goblet of Fire as a Dramione story. Hermione Granger needs a dance tutor before she embarrasses her partner, Viktor Krum, and herself at the Yule Ball. Draco Malfoy needs a good deed to make amends for hexing her teeth. Both of them need to keep everyone else for finding out what's going on between them. Fluffy romance with just a touch of angst. NOTE: story continues in "Draco Takes a Mark."

All I Have Never Known by LittleSixx | M | 32k | Dramione: The Ministry of Magic requires all magical people to marry someone of opposite blood status by 25. The Malfoys host a ball to help Draco meet a non-pureblood witch, and the one he falls for isn't who she claims to be.

Divination for Skeptics by olivieblake | M | 98k | Dramione: The latest in magical advancements is an enchantment that reveals the bearer’s romantic compatibility with another person. Effectively eliminating uncertainty from dating, the charm can tell you whether or not you’ve found The One with a precise, Hermione Granger-approved calculation of traits and preferences. It’s a foolproof method of predicting relationship happiness. It’s also, for Hermione, positively dreadful news. Dramione, post-war, soulmate AU.

The Black Rose by DarkCloud190, Rijaya83 | E | 166k | Dreomione: After years of a rocky relationship, Hermione Granger is single again, and for the life of her she cannot stop staring at her two friends. Draco Malfoy and Theo Nott both work with her at the DMLE and she is analyzing everything they say, do, or breathe. Surely, she is just imagining it. They have been dating each other for a year now and couldn't possibly be interested in her. Hermione's troubled love life aside, there is a killer targeting a specific group of people, putting both Hermione and Theo at risk.

Hermione Granger, Demonologist by BrilliantLady | T | 47k | Hermione & Theo: Hermione was eight when she summoned her first demon. She was lonely. He asked what she wanted, and she said a friend to have tea parties with. It confused him a lot. But that wasn’t going to stop him from striking a promising deal with the young witch.

The Accidental Courtship by Lomonaaeren | T | 14k | NottPott: Harry gets a soul-mark during his eighth year at Hogwarts, and is hopeful that he can finally be sure he’ll have someone who loves him for himself. When Theodore Nott rejects him, Harry steps back and goes to live his own life. Theo, who doesn’t want to be trapped in the limelight at Potter’s side, finds himself falling in love anyway.

A Star and Her Dragon by Lizzie_carlile | E | 256k | Theomione, Drarry, Hermione & the Malfoys: “The order took everything from me,” Lucius spoke again. “Now I’ll become the monster they always feared I would be.” The Death of the Malfoy Daughter was the catalyst for Lucius Malfoy becoming the man that everyone feared he would. With a second war brewing and secrets finally coming to light, one girl holds the key to turning the tides of the war.

Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves

Odd Little Family by chimneystacks | T | 1.7k | Xedgin: "Kira found it practical to believe that her father would someday remarry, and even more so to believe that it would be to the woman who was already a trusted, guiding figure to his child. Therefore, it was much to her surprise when a tall, handsome man interrupted her lute practice to ask her blessing in his proposal to her father."

House of the Dragon

The Falcon Becomes a Dragon by MichelleGz | T | 28k | Daemyra & Aemma: What if Rhaenyra and Daemon “woke up” during the tourney that was hosted for Baelon’s impending birth, both remembering their future life. What if Aemma’s labors were not so far along. What if there was time to save her? Will Aemma believe that her beloved husband was going to kill her for the child in her womb?

you and i are made of fire by aur_el_ias | M | 8.6k | Daemyra: Soulmarks are no trivial thing. Indeed, the words inscribed on the wrist are far from frivolous—they are the most important words heard in one's life, spoken by another. Unfortunately, save for a few exceptions, most highborn marriages are not soul-bound marriages. This is the story of one of those exceptions. OR In 105 AC, Daemon Targaryen finds his soulmate.

Viable Alternatives series by madina | T | 375k | Laenor/Rhaenyra, Daemyra, her children, and Viserys' children: So much could have been solved and so many could have been spared if a universe with dragons, magic, wargs and White Walkers had artificial insemination—and if the characters tried to be anything else but a dysfunctional family.

lodestar by aramblingjay | M | 43k | Daemyra: A Targaryen destined for a soulmate is a strange, broken creature, alone in a way that lives in their very bones, waiting for the half that will make them whole. Daemon waits sixteen years for her, and then a whole lot longer. A soulmates share scars au.

From Ashes to Embers by ladyalianora (AmbitiousWitch) | M | 185k | Cregan Stark/Rhaenyra, Daemyra: After burning by Sunfyre's flames, Rhaenyra Targaryen wakes up in her maiden bed, five and ten once more. With her mind broken and a determination to not relive the life she left behind, in a court that still presents a danger and with a father that keeps tripping her path. Can she change the future? Can she give up enough to take her crown? Or will she once again lose to her father's mistakes, her enemies' schemes and her own errors? (Juulna: One of my all-time favourites.)

A Woman Scorned by Shadow_Monarch_14 | E | 96k | WIP | Daemyra, Aemma/OC: After Prince Baelon Targaryen was a miscarriage, Queen Aemma Arryn tells King Viserys I Targaryen that she will have no more children. She has given him a daughter (a heiress) and that should be good enough. Viserys, pressured by his Small Council and his dream of a male heir as well as manipulated by Otto, makes the decision to set Aemma aside and marry Alicent. Aemma, betrayed by the love of her life, agrees… after taking her daughter, Dragonstone and the Islands of the Narrow Sea and the dragons from Viserys and his Small Council. If Otto Hightower wants a dragon King with his blood on the Iron Throne, he'll have to another thing coming.

Ancient Fire by AnaWayne | NR | 198k | WIP | Rhea/Daemon, Jonsa: Bran Stark knew that it wasn’t enough. So he decided to use his sister’s dormant yet growing magic to change the history of the House of Dragons before its fall.

put down that gravestone by darkgods | E | 249k | WIP | Daemyra: they have his mother's eyes, these would-be velaryon boys. not those of their own mother, but his. the king stretches limbs and smiles wide, heedless of his brother's fury mingled with agony, his daughter's frozen gaze. fire and blood has reunited. all must be well. the king thinks nothing of the prince's lack of mourning blacks, for the whole kingdom knew the wife daemon targaryen sought was never found in the vale. ten years after the godsforsaken night in the brothel, daemon targaryen makes his return to court to find it infested with vipers that threaten to coil lethal bodies around his niece. his niece and the nephews that bear his features yet claim the name velaryon. the rogue prince has returned, and a reckoning is set to begin.

Marvel

Some Things Shouldn't Be a Chore by scifigrl47 | T | 22k | Stony, Phlint: Steve takes things like personal responsibility and respect seriously. Tony's got people he pays to take care of that kind of thing, and anyway, he's pretty sure that he's going to die of some exotic disease in his workshop, because Dummy's still a little spotty about what is 'clean' enough to put on an open wound. The rest of the Avengers are in this for personal gain, except for Clint, he just enjoys being a dick. And some things shouldn't be a chore.

Basic Rules by StrivingArtist | T | 7.9k | Tony & Avengers: It said something about Toni’s life that she had an established system in case of kidnapping and torture, and while there had been tweaks, it was still basically the same as from when she was a kid.

Let them underestimate you.

Don’t fight back until you have an exit.

Lie from the start.

Protect what matters.

Assume no one is coming to help.

Tony and the Falcon by ArcticVulpix | T | 10k | IronFalcon: Steve introduced Sam Wilson to Tony Stark after the Fall of SHIELD. He grows to regret that. He grows to regret that very much.

Ramblings by TheSovereigntyofReality | G | 34k | Pepperony, Tony & Peggy: The problem with Alzheimer's is that sufferers sometimes ramble…often with no idea who is sitting with them. Peggy says something that sends Tony Stark on a legal manhunt.

Five Things Darcy Loves About Working for SHIELD by teand | M | 49k | ShieldShock, Phlint: The Bronx was up, the Battery was down and thank freaking Thor that SHIELD provided housing or Darcy suspected she wouldn't have been able to afford to live closer than Vermont.

I (created from fantasies) exist solely for you by Mizzy | T | 62k | Stony: Six years ago, without the Avengers Initiative there to save the day, scientist Dr. Eric Selvig sacrificed himself to save the world, the almighty demi-god Thor was lost to a terrible storm, and vigilante Iron Man – spotted with a nuclear weapon trying to take advantage of the situation – was forever labelled an enemy of SHIELD. This is a comic book office AU, where Steve is defrosted a year too late, Thor has forgotten who he is, and no one knows Tony is Iron Man. Also includes: office pranks, inappropriate post-it notes, and superheroes who like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain.

The Mechanic, The Soldier, and The Captain by AvocadoLove | M | 6.4k | Stuckony: HYDRA need a replacement for Zola’s genius, and they have years worth of experience breaking and brainwashing a good man into something they can control.

The Evidence by StrivingArtist | T | 16k | WinterIron: Didn’t notice. Right. Sure. Two brilliant minds, two super spies, and a god didn’t notice when the chattiest man they knew stopped making sound. They just seemed happier than before. Brighter and more cheerful than before. They just seemed like they were more comfortable with him around when he was stone silent. Fuck it. He knew they noticed. And he knew they liked him better this way.

In Which The Winter Soldier Might Just Be Wooing Darcy by Out_Of_Custody | T | 28k | WinterShock: Exactly what it says on the tin. (Prompt-Fic) (Juulna: I adore this fic!)

Blood Stained by QueenVee1 | NR | 313k | WinterShieldShock: With a war on the horizon, the Avengers mend bridges that had been burned, relationships are rebuilt, and new friends forged. After a chance encounter with Steve Rogers, Darcy Lewis figures she's had her fill of Avenger-related activities. Turns out she's more entrenched than she ever thought possible. When she forms an unlikely friendship with James "Bucky" Barnes, she thinks her life can't get any weirder. Spoiler alert: IT CAN! A (double!?!?) meet!cute and secret!sibling story! They said it couldn't be done. B**** YOU THOUGHT!

Shadow & Bone/Six of Crows

Quiet Miracles by goatsandgangsters | G | 10k | Darklina, Zoya & Nikolai & Alina & Aleksander: Alina knew miracles. She was no Saint and no savior, she knew this. But she knew the light in someone’s eyes when they smiled. She knew the warmth of an arm slung around her shoulder, the squeeze of a hand, the elbow in her side, the tight squeeze of an embrace. She knew the moment the room held its breath and then broke into the brilliant cascade of laughter. She knew the glimmer of tears wiped from her cheeks by careful fingers. Alina knew miracles. Ravka had never been so full of them. Or: sometimes a government is the beloved sun saint of the people, a young king determined to fix what has long been broken, the eminently practical head of the newly formed Grisha council, and the heretic who’s no longer going it alone.

Without a Mouth I Can Swear Your Name by tothewillofthepeople | T | 32k | Wesper, Kinej | Helnik: Kaz looked at Matthias coldly. “What do you want?” “I want to know where Wylan Van Eck is,” Matthias said. (A Six of Crows Hogwarts AU)

Star Trek Discovery

Respite series by Alethia | E | 22k | Michael/Pike: The Terran Pike comes to visit the newly-resurrected Captain Burnham on the Shenzhou and things get…heated.

Stargate Atlantis

Desert Rose by mific | E | 18k | McShep | John, a downed Hurricane pilot in WWII, is rescued by Rodney who's tracking strange energy readings in the Sahara. And in another life, their story makes another John and Rodney unwilling Atlantis celebrities.

Ted Lasso

At the Right Time by Annaelle | E | 25k | RoyJamie: Roy doesn't like to think he's taking advantage of Jamie. He's making him better, stronger, faster, a better player, and now that he's got the fucking muppet actually behaving for him, he'll be damned if he lets him go. For the PepPerVerse Bottom!Roy Challenge.

The Hunger Games

The Victors of District Twelve by DustyAttic | G | 49k | Everlark & Lucy Gray Baird & Haymitch: night What if Lucy Gray survived that night in the woods with Snow? What if she made it up north, found those people rumored to be surviving without the Capitol, and realized District Thirteen wasn't quite as obliterated as she'd been taught? And what if, sixty-five years later and after watching a certain Mockingjay end Snow's reign, she came back to District Twelve? This is the story of Katniss and Peeta meeting Lucy Gray Baird, and learning her story-- the story that Snow so desperately tried to erase.

The Locked Tomb

Your Necro Questions Answered by Magichorse | T | 8.8k | Griddlehark: Syndicated columnist "Nav the Cav" offers a sympathetic ear to cavaliers across the galaxy and dispenses practical, no-nonsense, real talk advice on how to properly manage and care for your necromancer.

Cake by the Ocean by zoicite | T | 15k | Griddlehark: Okay, so the thing was, Gideon had always been shit at plans. She knew that. Everyone knew that, but this--she really didn’t think it would be this hard! Gideon’s voice was like the least memorable thing about her. Bargaining her voice for a well-shaped set of human legs--that really should have worked in her favor.

who ya gonna call? by igneousbitch | E | 24k | Griddlehark: (Casual sex and paranormal investigation. Not necessarily in that order.) (Or: the Buzzfeed Unsolved AU in which Gideon is ready to fight a ghost, and Harrow just wants to be haunted.)

Behind the Locked Door by UnseelieWench | T | 98k | Griddlehark: It figures that the only college with the badass Cavalier program is also the college that Harrow Nonagesimus wants to attend. Oh well. Campus is big, right? She'll probably never see that pointed little face again.

The Mummy

Best Laid Plans by kyaticlikestea | T | 6.6k | Ardeth Bay/Jonathan Carnahan: After 20 years of being subjected to more yearning than any sister should ever have to witness, Evy decides that enough's enough.

Wednesday

A Torment of the Mind by cherrybirch | M | 58k | Wenvier: In which Wednesday and Xavier sign up for Hermione’s course in Legilimency. Two overdramatic darkness-loving teens with crushes on each other, trying to master their psychic powers by learning to read each other's minds… what could go wrong? NOTE: Canon non-compliance has been tagged for three things: Hermione’s presence at Nevermore, Larissa acting as principal (as if nothing happened), and the complete removal of the stalker subplot. (I find stalkers terrifying and don’t want to write about one.)

[cellsshapedlikestars]

I thought I was going crazy bc I couldn't find much jonsa fanart beside the AI stuff, too! Even went through previous jonsa events and didn't see any illustrated fanart--surprising for such a wildly talented fandom of writers/gifers/mood board creators!

(likely in response to me posting about wanting to learn to draw)

There may not be as many artists in the fandom as there used to be, but they're still here, and I'll eat up any little scraps that come across my dash. The art that people do create is so incredible, I'm always in awe

I know @jonsawilldanceanon is currently making art that I absolutely adore (and may have been my inspiration for attempting it on my own because I looked at theirs and went THATS SO COOL I WISH I COULD DO THAT)

During Jonsa events it is a lot of gifs and edits, which are also fun and take so much effort!! Like an underappreciated amount of effort. I love anyone and everyone who contributes to the fandom, even if all they do is reblog, comment, & support.

I'm trying to think of any other current/active Jonsa artists and am coming up blank because I'm writing this off the top of my head while I'm supposed to be working and jonsawilldanceanon is the one I saw most recently, but please if you know of other current artists, let me know! Hype them up!! If you're an artist, hype yourself up!!

[branwinged]

you're doing that thing jonsas also do where you conflate 'i do not like this ship, the idea of these characters fucking does not spark joy' with 'i am blind and unappreciative to any dynamic at all between these characters'. (obvious caveat is obvious but a

is this about that sansan post.... it was about their canonical dynamic, those angrily opposed to sansan were obviously implying there is no textual basis for anyone's interest in it beyond general moral depravity(!) and most of them were also j onsa shippers who think there's a possibility of their ship going canon, hence the tag ("#i just think it's funny to ignore all that and then turn around and ship J ONSA"). now that you have context ->

yea okay, statistically speaking, there is at least one fic out there which manages to write j onsa in a way i will find compelling, but that's true for all ships. i'm allowed to have a general opinion on a ship based on the fact that i neither like the popular interpretation of their dynamic nor do i care about them in a shipping context because those two don't have enough (any!) interactions or thematic overlap. and the defining thing about sansa's chapters for me is the examination of the lie of chivalry, that the role of the perfect lady waiting for her true knight is simply another form of entrapment. it is no coincidence that the two men who offer her even a little bit of compassion (it's not enough) in king's landing are tyrion and sandor, characters who will never be proclaimed as heroes under the chivalric paradigm because of their disablity, and in sandor's case, the disfigurement. because in the songs all knights are able bodied and handsome and all maidens are dutiful and fair. they are the 'beasts' to her beauty and the beastliness is their ableist rejection by society, a rejection which has fostered feelings of cynicism and nihilism in them. sandor's monstrosity also manifests outwards, he doesn't recognise the value of kindness. he must mock and torment sansa, which is his way of educating her, because he was never subjected to kindness. not until sansa.

sansa dreams of a fair knight within the constraints of the chivalric paradigm, but she's beginning to see through that lie. true knighthood in these books will not arrive in the form of an aemon the dragonknight (who was too wrapped up in his vows to protect naerys from their brother), but the earnest belief that despite the unjust structures of the world, we have a responsibility to make the hard choices to one day fulfill the dream of a better future. i expect she will find a true knight in the form of an unconventional hero such as brienne (or sandor, after his moral transformation), but they won't play the role of shining knight to her docile, helpless maiden either. she will have a measure of self-reliance first. anyway those were a lot of words to say that i don't like this framing of jon as her handsome true knight (he is a knight, but not necessarily sansa's) who swoops in to rescue her in winds, and i think it plays into ideas her chapters are deconstructing.

and these are just my thoughts on the ship (in a canonical setting, people can do whatever they want in their AUs), i don't have a problem with anyone shipping any characters. also my fav ship for jon is jonsam greatest jon ship of all time jon and satin don't have what they have. okay that's it 👍

[em-writes-stuff-sometimes]

20 Questions for Fic Writers

I wasn't tagged directly, lol. I'm doing it anyway, though!

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

I have 12 works on AO3!

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

390,129 words, at present.

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Currently (and I suspect forevermore): House of the Dragon. Previously: Harry Potter (back before JKR was a massive cunt).

4. Top five fics by kudos?

dōnus riñus (sweet girl) (3,417) gevivys (beauty) (2,971) ñuhus prūmȳs (my heart) (2,276) ilībītsos (little slut) (1,881) darilaros (princess) (883)

5. Do you respond to comments?

Yes, I do! I like to thank people for reading, plus it satisfies my odd-number issue (they make me weirdly uncomfy). When people take time out of their day to leave me a message, I want to make sure I'm recognising that and letting them know that I appreciate it.

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

Yikes. I think it's the Harry Potter one, where I have Harry and Hermione marry and have a kid during the war, and they both die in the Final Battle and Ron ends up taking the kid to visit their grave.

7. What's the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

I think that pretty much all my terms of endearment fics have happy endings - or near enough for ASOIAF-verse!

8. Do you get hate on fics?

Weirdly enough, no. I'd resigned myself to it given the themes and content, but people are weirdly accepting of it. I sometimes get strange comments (like someone who keeps insisting I make Daemon cheat with Rhaenyra), but they aren't hate, just... odd.

9. Do you write smut?

Yes. Feels like that should be overemphasised, haha. My writing is diiiiiirty.

10. Craziest crossover?

I haven't written any crossovers! If I were to do so, I'd probably do a 'Daenerys teleports back in time to House of the Dragon and gets with Daemon and Rhaenyra'. Hot.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Three damn times, lol, all from the same fic series (ToE). Once in May of last year, where someone stole my work and only changed the names to fit the Shadow and Bone fandom. Once again in June of last year, where someone plagiarised multiple ways and multiple times to write their fic (a whole other drama, yikes). And once in May of this year, where someone stole the entire first part of one of my chapters to write their Daemon x OC fic on Wattpad. All have been removed, because I'm not down with plagiarism at all.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

I think so? I cannot remember for the life of me. I know I've been asked, and I gave my approval, but I haven't seen the translations myself so no idea if that ever went ahead.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Yes! But it hasn't been published. We call it 'the Socussy fic' because it involves an unnamed female OC being hired by the Blacks to off the Greens during the Dance, only she does so by banging them to death in hilariously macabre ways. I wrote the establishing part featuring Daemon hiring her and the Larys footfuck death. We're missing one final bit, I think? It started in the big HotD Discord server I run, and @bottlesandbarricades @targaryenrealnessdarling and @ewanmitchellcrumbs have all collaborated on it. We're waiting for a final victim to contribute and then we shall convene as the Socussy Council and bestow the posting of it upon one poor soul! (I vote you Rach @bottlesandbarricades)

14. All time favourite ship?

I'm a die-hard Daemyra (Daemon Targaryen x Rhaenyra Targaryen) fan, but I also recognise that this is likely going to fracture and perish as the series progresses. I'm also hella into Jonsa (Jon Snow x Sansa Stark) and Jonerys (Jon Snow x Daenerys Targaryen). Plus, I like Jaimsa (Jaime Lannister x Sansa Stark) and Sanseryn (Sansa Stark x Oberyn Martell). I don't really know what this all says about me as a person, both the pairings themselves AND the fact they're all ASOIAF ships.

15. What's a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

I have an Aemond WIP fic that I'm too scared to finish given Aemond stans are a little intimidating to me! Also, I have a Klaus Mikaelson x OC/Reader x Elijah Mikaelson threesome fic that lingers in my files.

16. What are your writing strengths?

I like to think my strengths are my flowery prose, my relative era-accurate world-building and my characterisation.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

I ramble way the fuck too much. Seriously, shut up, Em. Explain those three paragraphs in one goddamn sentence only.

18. Thoughts on dialogue in another language?

I think it's cool! I've made sure to research how one would format the inclusion of this in a standard fiction novel, too, so that it reads as 'professionally' as it can be. I manually translate High Valyrian to include in my writing, because the translators aren't at all accurate and I don't want to break the immersion (even for myself). (As an aside, I can and do assist others in this too - hit me up if you need it!)

19. First fandom you wrote in?

Blegh. Harry Potter. Don't shoot me, I was a child.

20. Favorite fic you've written?

My series terms of endearment. If I have to choose within the series, probably ñuhus prūmȳs (my heart); it's the first proper divergence from show material featuring my own plot, and I think it's where my writing truly takes form.

YAY! Done.

No pressure tags: @vampire-exgirlfriend @emilykaldwen @marthawrites @mini-kunoichi @selfproclaimedunicorn

@ripdragonbeans @flowerpotmage @presidenthades @queen--kenobi @lady-morrigen

[kellyvela]

I'm unable to fathom the logic of J0nrya shippers. I recently got into a twitter altercation with a couple of accounts and oh my god, I totally forgot how terrible they are ! I have all of them blocked on here but they must be on twitter as well, I even recognised some of the users. It's just awful energy all around; all of them despise Sansa, no matter what she says and does. And they are SO weirdly possessive of Jon. They claim that WE treat Jon as some trophy husband when it is actually them who are guilty of that! They even hate it when people make simple Sansa/Ned parallels because apparently Ned belongs to A as well? Never mind that Ned is also Sansa's father...smh.

Their copium is very loud and obnoxious. I wonder how they felt when GRRM straight up debunked the ship at Balticon. Calling J/A relationship by all accounts, quite simple - that the fans have given it more thought than he has etc. I would have just packed up and left after that and accepted it wasn't going to become canon. But alas, they get even louder than how they were before. Do they understand how weird they sound. They sexualise A so much and want her to become a courtesan and get her period. It's very obvious A is not going to be the love interest because GRRM has done everything in his willpower to portray A as a prepubescent child. But he has done the opposite with Sansa; He's made her tall, full-breasted, acting as a mother to a child, basically running the household in the Eyrie etc. sometimes I forget she's meant to be 13...

We all know that when someone is on the right track, GRRM will respond cryptically and give a short, sweet answer. He rambled when it came to j0nrya, that's not a good sign for the canon basis of their ship, especially when they have the nerve to call Jonsas delusional.

The truth is, I wouldn't still be here fully believing in the inevitability of Jonsa if GRRM debunked it in the same manner he did w J/A. When that Alexandragenesis person asked him about it back in 2018 and GRRM just responded with "not going to tell anymore than I already have" I knew that we were on the right track. If GRRM flat out ignored the question or responded with a simple "not the direction I'm going in" since he had no issue debunking another theory on that same chat...if I remember correctly, well I'd have left and accepted I just misinterpreted the text and saw romance where it wasn't meant to be. I'd still read fanfic about them and enjoy them in a fanon way, and I still believe all the brilliant metas hold merit, no matter if they're meant to be interpreted as romantic by the author.

But j0nrya's didn't let go of their stance and just cracked down harder on jonsas. I'm embarrassed for them. I don't care if they ship it in fanon, if they just enjoy it as a pairing and have accepted it won't become canon based on the author's blatant dismissal of any romance between them - but the way they have behaved in this fandom is really really childish and frankly, irritating. They actually dominate reddit as well, surprisingly. There's quite a few popular Redditors on there who get lots of upvotes and who are also big A/J0nrya bloggers on here. And sometimes there are posts about Queen A/J0nrya which is met with 0 criticism by the community. There's healthy discussions which receives heaps of upvotes and everything. But it's the opposite situation with queen sansa and Jonsa. Little to no upvotes and harsh criticism.

Are these people selectively blind? Is this fandom completely unable to understand subtext and implicit clues/foreshadowing? Do they get how fiction works? Do they get the different literary influences that inspired GRRM to write ASOIAF? His past works? His favourite authors? The themes of his series? The importance of omission? Unreliable narrators? Dramatic irony? Have these people never studied a text before and been made to pick apart imagery, sentences, parallels etc?

I'm just baffled by this fandom having such a surface level reading of the text. "BUT JONSA COULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY RARELY THINK OF EACH OTHER!!" If they took the time to read our metas they'd actually realise... that works in our favour...the distance supports our theories...that's exactly what we are pointing out lmao. I'm utterly convinced that if Jon was mussing Sansa's hair and thinking of her as his little sister constantly that Jonsa would hold a lot more merit.

I mean, even just the implication that GRRM's response to Jonsa was clearly 'fan service catering' is so fucking disingenuous I have to laugh. Why would GRRM feel the need to appeal to such an incredibly niche fanbase and tell them what they want to hear when majority of the fandom wants Jon and D*ny to have sex and save the world together. And when you compare how GRRM responded to Jonsa vs how he has responded to R + L = J, it's so obvious that Jonsas are actually the ones who are making sound predictions. There's a reason a lot of us correctly predicted major beats in the show while the rest of the fandom were foaming at the mouth over Sansa being killed by one of her family members, queen d*ny, and the curtain of light theory ....

My Twitter account is locked for a reason. Somehow they always find you only to attack you.

Anyway, fave sister stans and fave sister/jon shippers are a funny bunch lmao I mean only them can write metas about fave sister being Lady of Winterfell *by proxy*, or that "official" Asoiaf fanart *confirms* that fave sister is the most beautiful human being on earth, or that fave sister and aunty wearing baby pearls means that they are the epitome of fertility and motherhood, despite them both hating those attires and quickly changing on masculine clothes 🤪 And I won't mention the training with a courtesan because that's sick 💀

I won't fight them on fave sister being jon's fave sister, that relationship can stay like that lol

I won't fight them on fave sister being Ned's fave daughter, that we can't change and there's reasons that vastly explain that.

They simply decided to ignore BALTICON, and they also do the same that cujo shippers do, they made up a narrative where GRRM knowing that they "rightly discovered" that their fave romance is *canon*, tried to mislead the readers to keep the susrprise factor when their ships happen . . . . ahxvasdhbshfbdfjsbdmjwd.alsdshadb

Did youk know that the Alexandragenesis was probably a hater from reddit trying to get GRRM debunking Jon/Sansa? Alexandragenesis is some fake disorder that gives you violet eyes born in the internet, so that name was targ coded. Also, after GRRM didn't give them the answer they were seeking they started to attack fave sister in favor of Sansa, so that person was definitely a Sansa hater/targie/fave sister stan failing as always lol

I think they read our metas and feel really dumb after that but they will never admit it, at least not in public, which reminds me of these two anon messages I got from them once:

. . . 🙈

They really said the GRRM answer to the jonsa question was fan service??? 🤡

I'm telling you, they are a funny bunch 😂

Anyway, I can't believe the curtain of light is a thing . . . . 🙃

Thanks for your message anon 💋

[jackoshadows]

Why do you think there is so much animosity between Sansa fans and Dany fans? I can understand how conflict comes up between Sansa fans and Arya fans given the conflict between the characters but I can’t figure out what the issue is with Dany fans vs Sansa fans. It can’t JUST be because of shipping, right? I’m a big fan of Dany, Arya, and Jon, but I still do like (canon) Sansa as a character and honestly see a lot of similarities between her and Dany. Their stories have definite parallels and anti parallels and I don’t really know why I don’t see anyone else talk about it. Every time I try to talk to a Sansa blog or a fellow Dany blog about it, I never hear back. What gives??

I don't like the both siding in this ask. Sansa fans keep spewing hateful nonsense, farcical theories and made up headcanons in the form of 'intellectual' discourse in the Dany/Arya/Jon tags and then when book fans of those characters respond, the so called 'neutral' bnfs pretend both sides are to blame.

All this explained very clearly here.

And while I personally feel that Dany and Sansa have very little in common as characters, there's a lot of fandom metas/essays/gifsets and fanarts paralleling these two as fandom faves. You should be able to find them on many of the character blogs if you are interested in that sort of thing.

IMO, Daenerys is clearly written as a tier I main character. She drives her story more than any other character in the series as the sole representative of her house and considering how isolated she is from every other POV character. The story in her POV is about her.

If we are looking at parallels, then it's Daenerys and Arya who have a lot of commonality in their way of thinking, their concern for the little guy, in their ideas of justice and dispensing that justice, right and wrong, their toughing it out on their way to the top, their proactive nature in getting things done, to be in charge, their love of nature etc.

With respect to the increase in toxicity from the Sansa fandom post show, then yes, that's because of shipping and Jonsa. A lot of the hate that the character of Daenerys gets is from Sansa fans - especially on Tumblr - because of her foreshadowed future relationship with Jon Snow and they want fanon, self-insert Sansa to have Dany's plot importance and story in the books. It's different on asoiaf sites like Reddit and Westeros.org - the majority of Dany hate on there is from Stannis/Jon Snow fans who are not big fans of a female character being the prophesied chosen one/top dog of the series.

And I point to shipping being the big reason because of my personal fandom experience on this site. This is me going down memory lane but I remember around 2015/16, I wrote these angry, frustrated posts calling out the TV show for taking Jon's book plot and writing that for show Sansa and Sansa's actions in the Battle of the Bastards in season 6. At that time a lot of Dany fans were also big Sansa fans and attacked me for being a 'misogynistic dudebro'. I am not naming names - shit's in the past - but I used to get blocked and get hateful inbox messages for criticizing show Sansa's actions.

During season 6 there were so many posts about Jon Snow being an useless idiot who deserved to die, Sansa was right to not tell him because he's a moron, Sansa's the politician/general who knows best, she deserved to be queen, Jon's the worst for stealing Sansa's birthright else Sansa and Dany would have ruled as best queens of westeros etc. - all from Daenerys fans!!

This was some kind of superficial notion of girl power with Sansa and Dany girlbossing around Westeros, bow down before these Queens sort of thing and fuck the actual book story. Arya was never included in these conversations because she did not wear dresses and Maisie Williams was not conventionally beautiful like Emilia Clarke and Sophie Turner and therefore did not fit into these Girlboss headcanons.

And then before season 7 was when we got the leaked spoilers of Jonerys meeting at Dragonstone. And this was when the full toxicity of the Jonsa shippers was unleashed. This was when we got 'Political!Jon' and all sorts of vile hate for Daenerys and more and more Dany fans started to react to that hate from the Sansa fandom.

Fandom always, always influences our likes and dislikes of characters (This is why I stay away from some fandoms - I don't want to end up hating characters) And this is what happened here. The Sansa/Jonsa fandom was so vile that a lot of Dany fans on tumblr stopped stanning for Sansa.

Fast forward to 2019 and the same Dany stans - again, not naming names but the very same Dany stans - who attacked me for being a sexist, male dude for critiquing show Sansa in season 6, started critiquing show Sansa when Dany got the same treatment that Jon, Arya and Bran got before her with the show tearing down these characters to prop up Sansa. Suddenly it was no longer misogynistic to call out how these characters were being torn down in order to prop up Sansa when they share scenes with her 😂😂😂.

That’s why I don’t hold much stock in words like ‘misogyny’ and ���sexist’ randomly thrown around without context by the stans of female characters to attack people for critiquing said female character. I have been at the receiving end of this for years from the Jonsa fandom because I call out their utter nonsense.

The sexism and misogyny occurs when a female character is criticized for doing the same thing a male character is praised for - for ex. Daenerys gets a lot of this because she has parallel arcs with Jon Snow and very often she gets attacked for doing the same things that Jon is praised for. Even the show did this - Dany getting unfair flack for executing traitors when Jon Snow and the North do it all the time. The sexism is in how Arya gets attacked as being ‘male-coded’ because she’s not the right kind of girl. The sexism is in the slut shaming and commentary about how Daenerys is not the right kind of rape victim. The sexism is in the popular theories like political!Jon - wherein Jon Snow turns into LF 2.0 and sexually manipulates and seduces a rape victim.

Sexism is not simply liking a male character or critiquing a female character - there needs to be context. One does not simply throw around these heavy words simply to attack other bloggers to win fandom points. The word then loses it’s meaning.

So yeah, I ended up going on a tangent about my fandom experiences when the show was running. I do think a lot of the beef and toxicity in this fandom comes from shipping and Sansa fans wanting her to be something she is not. They want her to be a tier I main character with the story revolving around her love life as she Disney princess rules the North with sewing and dancing. And this leads to them diminishing the actual main characters and taking away from main characters to give to her. Naturally fans of the main character are going to push back against this.

And Sansa is a classist, sexist character and so her fans espouse classist, sexist viewpoints to justify her actions. Their love for all things 'traditional' and sticking to the status quo - 'Jon being KITN would be boring, he should stay a bastard, Arya being lady of WF is not right as she does not want to wear dresses, Dany will be mad like her father she can't escape her genes, Tyrion is doomed' etc. is based on Sansa being a traditional, pro-status quo character. Hence why there is so much clashing of ideas and discourse happening in the fandom.

So yeah. Honestly, I am just tired of seeing all these posts bothsiding fandom drama and making it seem like all the stans are equally responsible when the majority of fandom toxicity is started by stans of one character - Sansa - with the result being fans of other characters pushing back against their nonsense.

[astradrifting]

Hi! Were there any perspectives in the ASOIAF fandom that made your eyes roll? If there are, what made you say so? Thanks!

[mostly written in 2021, and posted very late. Sorry nonny!]

woof, this could open up a can of worms. I'm almost afraid this is a bait ask but I'm also very willing to run my mouth online about ASOIAF, and I love making fun of dumb theories, so let’s go!

Every time someone says that Jon and Dny are the song of ice and fire, my soul dies a little. Enough said.

I also hate the idea that parallels between ASOIAF history and the events of the books don’t matter. Not to state the obvious, but Westerosi history isn’t real. No part of it actually happened organically, GRRM has manufactured all of it, so everything must have been written with a purpose. I don’t buy that it’s just all world-building, because if parallels are obvious to us, they must be a thousand times more so for the man actually writing it all, and the army of editors who are probably helping him keep it straight.

There is absolutely no way that anything about Jonnel ‘One-Eye’ is a coincidence. Half-brother to Rickon Stark is obvious enough, but then we have his mother. Lynara sounds very similar to Lyanna (side note: a jonsa baby named Lynara would be adorable), but the real link is that she was born a Stark - all of the women on the family tree are listed under their maiden names. Her relation to her husband Cregan isn’t specified; it would have been so easy to have her be from another random house, or even a Karstark, yet what George wanted to convey is that Jonnel has a Stark mother, as well as a Stark father who happened to be heavily involved with the Targaryens.

Another fun thing linking Jonnel to Jon! Jon’s first relationship was with a red headed girl, who claimed that they were married because he’d stolen her. In the same conversation where she’s called half fish…

“You know nothing, Jon Snow. I’m half a fish, I’ll have you know.”

“Half fish, half goat, half horse…there’s too many halves to you, Ygritte.”

(ASOS, Jon V)

this conversation is already jonsa gospel as foreshadowing because of “half-fish”, but the horse part was always a little strange to me. As far as I remember, they didn’t have a prior conversation about her loving horses or riding particularly well, so that was seemingly out of left-field.

Well Jonnel’s second wife was a Ryswell - their sigil is a black horse’s head with a red mane.

pictured: the jonsa agenda winning again

The idea that Stannis will take Winterfell isn’t as personally annoying to me, all these dudebros have very detailed, tactics-based reasons to believe he’ll win I’m sure (something about a nightlamp?), but I just think it doesn’t do anything for the narrative, nor does it make sense with either his arc or Jon and Sansa’s.

Winning Winterfell will put Stannis in a position of strength, give him a base of operations in the North that’s not on loan from the Night’s Watch, and would probably lead to most of the Northern houses swearing allegiance to him, as Manderly has already promised to do. Why would a man in that position ever choose to burn his daughter, his only heir, alive? That is literally one of the few guaranteed book plots we have, so IMO speculation about Stannis all needs to work backwards from this end point; it’s ugly and horrible, and I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach reading it, but it’s the only ending to his arc that makes sense.

Kinslaying reoccurs time and time again in Stannis’ arc. Kinslaying for his own personal benefit, no less. In his first appearance in ACOK, he listens to Selyse suggest that he kill Renly, then stands by whilst Melisandre kills Maester Cressen, his surrogate father. Cressen raised him and loved him like a son; yet if he had killed Melisandre instead, Stannis would have lost the power she wields for his benefit, the main reason he has a chance at the throne. Later in the book, he implicitly allows his brother to be murdered so that he could gain the Stormlords that had rallied to Renly instead of him (anyone trying to argue that the shadow wasn’t technically Stannis so technically it wasn’t kinslaying will be put in the naughty corner for excessive pedantry). In ASOS, he’s willing to sacrifice his nephew, an innocent 12 year old under his guardianship. He says it’s for the realm, for duty, but really it’s for his destiny. What is the life of a bastard boy against a kingdom so close to his grasp?

It’s escalation. Each time so far he’s had a layer of deniability, but he’s not going to have that in the end. Ordering Shireen’s death himself, murdering his daughter in some desperate bid to secure victory over the Boltons, will be the final step off the cliff. Maybe he’ll have some military victories before that, smarter people than me have no doubt discussed the parallels to the Greek myth of Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia, but I have no doubt Stannis’ story is headed only towards tragedy.

….Turns out that I do have a lot of feelings about Stannis. But to get back to my original point, Jon and Sansa taking Winterfell back together, travelling through the North doing the work and proving themselves as worthy rulers, makes a lot more sense for their future roles in the story than Stannis winning it all for them. It’s also much more affecting and thematically resonant, so I refuse to believe D&D entirely made up that storyline.

I also inevitably end up rolling my eyes whenever I'm bored enough to go onto r/asoiaf, there's always a bad take right on the front page. One that annoyed me enough to go into @istumpysk’s inbox and kickstart my jonsa blogging was one asking what the point of R+L=J even is, because it never amounted to anything and just muddled up J/D being “the song of ice and fire”.

While it gets so close to the point that it’s funny, there’s no way the “song” is going to boil down to a relationship, let alone JD. I would almost buy Jon and Dænerys being the song of ice and fire if Jon actually were just Ned’s bastard, all ‘ice’. Hell, if he really wanted to make a relationship the song of ice and fire, he could have cut out the middleman and made Jon a trueborn Stark from the start - make them starcrossed lovers from warring families, truly ice and truly fire. Utterly boring, but thematically coherent at least. A major point of Jon’s character is that he is both - and something a lot messier than that besides, as a bastard.

It's not all bad on r/asoiaf though, when I went back to look for that post I saw another about how the Titan of Braavos is a Pacific Rim-style mech that will come to life to fight any dragons coming to the city, a theory that I will be championing from this moment henceforth.

Wait, nevermind, in that same thread someone said that Jaehaerys is the sexiest Targ name, so r/asoiaf is immediately cancelled again. That's another fandom perspective that makes me roll my eyes, the idea that Jaehaerys is in any way an acceptable name, especially as Jon's ‘secret’ name.

This 👏 is 👏 Targaryen 👏 propaganda 👏

Just look at it!! How do you even pronounce that? The hill I will most definitely die on is that this name is ugly.