#Those queerbaits were strong

[a-timely-problem]

I have no loyalty to my country. Seriously. Idgaf. But that god damn actress that played a character that was strongly implied to be queer? I'd go to fucking war-

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Now that Buddy Daddies is finished, I’m gonna say it: SPOILERS!

Buddy Daddies really is for the aces, aros, queerplatonic partners, and platonic life partners out there. 

I know, 100%  that there are going to be some people out there that are going to say, “See! It really was just queerbait all along” or some who are going to bemoan the fact that there were no declarations of romantic love or kiss or whatever. I’m sure this part right here:

Miri: “Didn’t you slip out yesterday to go drinking with a girl again?” 

Caused some frowns and I do get it. Because of this, the queerbait and Kazuki and Rei are just friends dialogue will continue and follow the series around. But, this episode has made it clear that Kazuki and Rei love not only Miri, but each other as well.

They are a work partners (相棒 - aibou)

They are partners raising a child together. (相方 - aikata).

They’ve moved (I’m pretty sure their diner is in Okinawa for reasons I’ll get to in another post), they’ve opened a business together, one which has a part of Kazuki’s last name in it (来栖 - Kurusu is his last name, the 栖 (su) part of his name means “nest.”), and Rei’s words to his father: Miri, Kazuki, and I share a bond stronger than blood. 

They are a family. They love each other.

Of course, friends can be a part of a family. Friends can love each other, but there are also reasons why people who are in situations like co-parenting, queerplatonic relationships, platonic life partnerships, and etc. don’t refer to their bonds as friendships and the people they are co-parenting or in a partnership with as their friends, but as words that give some space for those grey areas in-between.

Friendships are strong, deep, and beautiful. Platonic love is love and is powerful.

But, there are definitely still different sets of expectations and boundaries that come with friendships vs. other relationship dynamics. 

Kazuki and Rei’s situation falls outside of the usual friendship expectations and boundaries and sits somewhere between that, family and partnership.

I know this topic has been talked to death about. But, I felt like I needed to write about and address it one final time since Buddy Daddies has come to an end (though, who knows about a potential Daughter Daddies!) Especially after Miri’s line to Kazuki. (I feel I could also go into open relationship dynamics, polyamorous relationships, and etc. but that feels like it would be derailing). 

Basically, I just wanted to get one final post out on this. I was very pleased with this ending episode. It made my heart so happy and warm, and I know I’ve said it before, but this series really speaks to me as someone who is aroace. Aroace characters and our relationship dynamics have basically no rep, so even if this series wasn’t intended to be written with a queerplatonic relationship dynamic in mind, they ended up writing a beautiful depiction of one that makes me and what I would want from a relationship of some kind, finally feel seen.

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

People on this website really trying to downplay the specific role of destiel in the events of November 5th 2020 ‘it could have been any other ship that went canon at that time and had the same effect’ no.

Nothing else is destiel.

Nothing else is 12 years and hundreds of episodes of extremely obvious and deliberate queerbaiting that was Vehemently denied by the production team. Nothing else is the ship about characters whose larger overarching plot is literally fighting against their own pre-determined narrative to attain free will. Nothing else proved in the 11th hour Just before the show ended that the meta narrative and queer reading by fans who insisted there was something there and who were constantly called crazy by the production and by other fans and by the rest of the internet were RIGHT.

The CW did market research! About whether to make it canon! In a show they always pretended was aimed primarily at middle (conservative) America!!!

The queer subtext was so Fucking Strong by the end of the show, because the writers constantly wrote themselves into corners that could Only be explained away by destiel, that they HAD to admit defeat and canonize it.

And THEN even after they made it canon, they denied it some more and tried to downplay it! But it happened! The angel is fucking gay!!!!

Destiel is THE great American queerbait and had been a staple of the culture of this site for over a decade before November 5 2020. There is a REASON it is the most popular ship on AO3. ‘The same thing would have happened if johnlock became canon or spirk or whatever else’ no it simply would not have because crucially CRUCIALLY those ships Never Became Canon! The fact that Destiel of all the popular queerbait slash ships of the past few decades somehow at long last DID, and in a way that Still refused to just let the shippers have it and allow any implication of full reciprocation and that the final two episodes and the entire cast absolutely refused to acknowledge in any way, is why the canonization of destiel is one of the wildest things to happen to fandom culture as a whole in recent memory, and you cannot theoretically remove the destiel of it all and have it be the same kind of event.

The reason november 5 happened like it did, why people started making jokes at all, is because the fandom cultural juggernaut that is destiel becoming canon is the only thing that could have possibly managed to trend above the U.S. election. BECAUSE it’s destiel.

[sparrowlucero]

what's the strange aeons opinion you disagree with?

(just to clarify: this was a lighthearted jab, i dont really care and this explanation is just for posterity. except for the clown thing. fix that) There was a recent strange aeons video that reiterated what I see as kind of poor tumblr takes on Steven Moffat's work, specifically that he 1) only writes cheap shock value without meaningful stories to make himself look clever, 2) that his work is "for men like him, who wanted to watch strong male characters who are always right save the day and ogle at some hot women along the way", and 3) that he habitually queerbaited because he didn't know how to respond to a female fanbase (1) I talked a bit why I disagree with this here; basically, I just think it was one of those things where a subset of a fandom would interpret the work as being deliberately vindictive (Ex. "We have issues with this show, so it must be because the writer is making it bad on purpose to spite us. Only a very arrogant person would do that, so it is now reasonable to see everything in this show through the lens of that ego." etc etc), and it got to the point where the actual themes and motifs of the shows would be entirely unremarked upon or outright dismissed (and it was even a bit of a tumblr faux pas to attempt to engage with them at all) in favor of trying to dissect how and why each episode and character was bad/hostile towards the audience. Because these takes were so popular and widely accepted then, they're often treated as the most objective and nuanced take now. I could get into why I disagree further in regards to the actual content of the shows, but to put it simply, I just think he's a good writer who did some really thoughtful and thematically engaging work for reasons other than, you know, trying to make himself look smart and not wanting girls to watch doctor who. (1) (I didn't really go into this in that previous post but I think it's really weird how people treat the co showrunner, Mark Gatiss, a gay man who wrote a lot of what people attribute to Moffat as a straight man queerbaiting female fans, as a non entity in this conversation. I'm not a big fan of Gatiss but, like, I don't know, give him some agency in his own art here)

[project-sekai-facts]

is it me or does prsk not really cater towards hardcore yuribait or yaoibait as much even when given the opportunity especially compared to other gacha games, like even the wedding events neither of them was focused on a popular pairing or even just in general with the stories (except for minoharu and vbs i guess?)

Yuribait and yaoibait are strong words that aren't exactly right to describe project sekai. They're just alternative ways of saying queerbait, which implies a marketing strategy of attracting a queer audience by falsely promising representation. While they didn't advertise queer representation, spn and sherlock were accused of this due to the way they wrote their leads (i guess spn did become genuine rep. Ish). Proseka isn't that, neither are similar franchises, like bandori or love live for example. Even if they rarely say things outright, which admittedly is in part because of corporate greed and appeasing fans, I wouldn't say it's queerbaiting, especially for this game and the two I've outlined (well LL has a complicated history but this isn't the time or place). The whole idea of falsely promising queer rep or marketing off it doesn't really happen here, especially in project sekai it feels very genuine and clear even if not labelled. I put this down to the writers saying on record that they want the characters, and their relationships and issues, to feel realistic and relatable.

To actually answer the question now my little media ramble is over, yeah it does feel less compared to other games, especially bandori which gives content to multiple pairings for the same characters. Like don't get me wrong prsk has quite a lot of ship tease when you really get down to it and track through all the stories, but it definitely feels limited to only a handful of pairings. While prsk does give moments for multiple pairings for the same character sometimes it's just... less ig. Again i think it's just to do with the intentionally realistic way of portraying the relationships, so imo it makes sense that they only pick a hanful to give much more obvious or outright romantic subtext to (aka mmj/vbs), even if they still give little moments here and there for other pairings for those characters, as well as giving less-fleshed out or explicitly romantic shiptease for other pairings that don't include those characters (does this make sense? it's hard to talk about shiptease in the game without explicitly talking about shipping. oh well...).

(Also as an aside: mmj is also a bit of a genre thing, and a lot of a Love Live thing. I'm not reaching by saying that either, it showed up on the results to a survey about media the staff at colopale like. mmj does take a few cues from LL here and there, (rooftop practice, genki orange leader, the white feather, airis character design and voice actress) so this is probably one of them)

Even though the wedding events don't usually focus on a ship (aside from the Honami/Kanade one (for context it's honami's most popular ship at least on pixiv, although it's still on the rarer side of things, and it's not that popular in terms of Kanade pairings)), they have always featured popular ships on the card lineups, aside from the most recent one. the first one had cards for the two most popular Akito pairings, and the second one had An/Kohane and Shizuku/Airi. The second one is particularly notable since the event didn't go lightly on the ship tease at all in some parts, though it makes sense since both pairings have romantic text and/or subtext in the story. Even the first wedding event had a tiny bit in one of the card stories, and this year's one managed to squeeze in a scene where Minori imagines Haruka getting married (presumably to her).

We also had the buddy funny spend time event back in 2021, which was explicitly a double date event featuring an/kohane and minori/haruka (again two pairs with romantic text), and we've had other events that follow a sort of similar concept of two popular pairings doing something together, without the double date thing attached, but you can tell what they were thinking lol. I don't really wanna elaborate on that bc I don't wanna start a whole thing but if you look through the event list you can probably work it out.

But then again, this is the Hatsune Miku friendship game. Friendship and community are two of the core themes of the game, which again explains why it might feel like there's less romantic teasing and such compared to other games. Because there is. The events and other stories prioritise writing the platonic relationships over giving ship tease. There's definitely events that you can come out of with little to no moments for the ships you like. This isn't saying that other idol games don't focus on the friendship by the way, I'm just saying prsk has much stronger and consistent themes. From an objective perspective it has the best writing of the major idol games on the market (maybe, idk what's going on in bandori nowadays I've heard MyGO and Avemuji are really good).

Yeah it's the hatsune miku friendship game which prioritises realistic characters and relationships that's about the best way I can put it.

(aside #2: back to the idea of queer content, while they don't write the game, sega is pro-lgbt and is a sponsor of tokyo pride, and offer protections for queer staff. Other sega franchises like Yakuza and Sonic have queer characters! And mizuki is about 5 events away from coming out as trans unless they fumble super badly. So it's a nonzero chance that prsk can and will include textual queer rep in future (i mean they already have lol). It genuinely is down to the realism other fan appeal. Again this isn't to hate on other franchises I'm a huge fan of LL and a casual bandori enjoyer, prsk is just Like This)

[ialwaysknewyouwerepunk]

queer signalling: louis and harry living their beautiful queer lives, collected by me

since we must take note of our fellow queers when they signal that they are very much one of us, despite being closeted. since i've had a very very queer few years thanks to them, thanks to their signalling, thanks to them being brave.

(!! this list isn't exhaustive, and if i've forgotten your favorite, by all means let me know. there's always room for another edition. it's been a while since i made a compilation and felt there was a need of a new one on my blog. this one goes a few years back, since my last one dates from 2021 :'o. so yeah. here we go.)

harry in my policeman, playing a closeted queer man, based on the book that's long been one of his favorites. lauded by the director and co-stars for how well he portrayed this character, how well he understood.

harry wearing a green flower on his chest for the mp premiere, placing himself (once again) in the same line of history as oscar wilde.

louis's green flowers on his initial 28clothing jersey at the first afhf, which includes bonus roses and 28s all around

the entire late night talking mv bc!!!!!

louis's rainbow stage lights during sibwawc. he really did that. every single night.

the entire dazed magazine happening. “I’ve always tried to compartmentalise my personal life and my working life,” he explains. / “I have unlocked an ability to be myself completely, unapologetically,” he says with conviction." / “I think through my own sense of self and personal journey, I am realising that happiness isn’t this kind of end state.”

louis's gay exit songs: most notably 'ever fallen in love (with someone you shouldn't've)'

harry flirting with stanley tucci

louis and his gay ass tank tops !!! we must point it out !!!!!!

all along

harry kissing a pride flag during harry's house ono in nyc

rainbow flare during the btm mv

harry being gifted a mask of his own face at munich n2, which prompted him to say that he feels like he's wearing a mask sometimes

28 in a triangle for 28clothing!!!!!!!!

kit connor soft launching 28 clothing. a young actor starring in a queer coming-of-age series, who was forced to come out after being accused of queerbaiting. he was the first one, besides louis, to wear 28clothing

harry's grammy's speech "people like me" (which ppl sadly misunderstood), echoing what he's been saying on tour for years. this doesn't happen to people like him. if they only knew, right?

harry's freddie-inspired outfit for the grammy carpet (which also brought back his theme for clown/jester fits, like harryween 2021 n2. wonder why)

louis's merch graphic where a boy is trying to smash a glass ceiling

harry posing for david hockney, actual living legend, gay artist of the ages. "Styles seems to know how lucky he is, adding, with a tinge of disbelief: “I’m in awe of the man with enough one-liners for a lifetime.” As to what those one-liners might be? Styles and Hockney’s mutual silence on that question suggests that what happens in the studio, stays in the studio."

louis having suspicious visuals during back to you, the only visuals of that type on tour

harry's 2022 harryween outfit: dressed as danny (literally. he did that. he went grease on us.) but wearing sandy's jacket

louis at barricade aka held safely in the arms of strong security personnel

harry singing man, i feel like a woman and still the one with shania twain. while wearing a rainbow discoball jumpsuit (parallel with kacey musgraves wearing a rainbow dress to sing it with him years ago.)

louis's gay ass merch for the away from home festival

harry dressed in nina ricci by harris reed, an explicitly gender-fluid line. "At 18 I found myself living in london creating ruffle blouses, corsets, fabric flowers and flares from my kitchen floor (...). My creations at the time were met with nothing but criticism for being “too feminine” or “costume”, teachers said I should focus on “menswear” or “womenswear”. l remember it really wasn’t until I started dressing for myself and who I was that it all clicked. @harrystyles was my first ever client who embraced the fun, fluid and expressive clothing I was creating."

continuous bluegreening. to name a few: harry's werchter fit, all this time lights, satellite caps in two colors only, louis's smiley flickering bluegreen on tour in 2022, the james cordon shit, louis in uncasville. enjoy this post here

harry's snl shoot unseens: him as ariel

louis out in amsterdam at a gay bar

harry going to the women's only swimming pond (on a day it was open for men, but this is important to me okay)

harry's use of orchids in his visuals during 'she' during love on tour '23

the 'hairy mermaid' tour visuals

harry as a mermaid during the mfasr mv. as a supreme physical manifestation of harry as the mermaid he truly is inside. but in his true form he gets chopped up and consumed. literally

as it was mv and its parallels with the matrix, hints to harry as the woman with the red dress.

louis jumping up on barricade against the one spot where a pride flag was draped over it

oh yeah that exact same thing happened in 2022 too

harry forming a skirt with a pride flag in brasil after his pants ripped

that gay ass denim getup with the fur collar?? while wearing the fucking peace ring????

harry and phoebe breaking gender norms in the tpwk mv dance. no i'm not over it yet shut up

louis wearing a basquiat t-shirt, another famously queer artist joining the ranks

harry bought an actual genuine basquiat. flex

harry dressed in skirts for gucci

"happy pride! happy pride! 'tis the season! can you tell i'm relaxed?"

"isn't all of this sparkly bi music?"

satellite mv rainbow planet tshirt

louis's bigger than me promo where he's literally george michael like??? IM SORRY???????

harry kissing lewis capaldi at the brits

harry kissing nick kroll at the dwd premiere. lol

and... harry as friend of D O R O T H Y. sang over the rainbow. we all cried. especially me at this clip of harry glancing in relief at his band after over the rainbow.

[arirovi]

A reflection...

I knew BnHA in 2016. The first season was finished and the second season was expected. I was in the University and still working for my degree. Mi personal life and the world in general was so much different...

There was no sign of a pandemic coming, Tumblr was still not undergoing a content purge, and the anime community was much less widespread than today. Then i walked trough the fandom path, to put it more simply, as an observer rather than an active participant.

And just by watching, one learns many things.

In particular, I want to refer to the expectations with which we all approach a series, a story. And also how these change over the years, how they are built on the emotions that certain parts of the plot provoke in us.

First off all, I want to cover expectations for the bnha plot in general.

I've seen various parts of the fandom enjoy BnHA from different points, because it's those parts that resonate with them the most. Some from Izuku's mentor-protege relationship with All Might, others from the focus of pure and simple Heroism, some from the tragedy that is the villains' past and others from the trauma and abuse represented by the Todoroki.

We have all done it from a valid point of view and, naturally, we all build expectations.

Some lucky ones are lucky enough that what they expected to happen happens in the end (and I am happy for you from my own experience), but when those expectations are not met by the original material, it hurts a lot. More than one of us may have seen it happen again and again, experienced it firsthand.

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter which part of the story we are most engaged in, we all reach, in some way, a point where our expectations are either not met (if we are unlucky) or forgotten or not allowed (if we consider it a representative injustice). But in the end what counts is that as fans we all experience this phenomenon at the same time (to a lesser or greater extent) and in its own way it is a type of social bond that is not forgotten.

(And I'm not saying that it's something merely negative or positive, it can be both at the same time AND it's just a fact, something that is happening to all of us who follow BnHA no matter how long we have been in the fandom)

So, now that the end is approaching and I am faced with different opinions about it, it is like living in a loop of collective emotional repetitions and it is such an incredible phenomenon that in itself, it makes me want to share my thoughts when I didn't before.

Which brings me to the other point I wanted to talk about: shipping expectations and Bakudeku

At that time (2015 onwards) the concept of "queerbaiting" was quite popular, while at the same time, so was the idea that your queer ship could become canon. In fact, it was strong enough to cross the borders of fandom.

But even with this in the mainstream, we BakuDeku seemed to remain on our side of the fandom, always in defense mode. The most vocal on social media represented a group of followers who didn't care how toxic the mere idea of ​​this Ship was to others. The only thing that we cared about was that we liked their interactions, the intensity and the paradoxes between Kacchan and Deku.

In 2016 it was not popular to be a BakuDeku, much less accepted by the general public. And even among fans of the characters, being a specific DekuBaku was a rarity.

And so time went by.

As you can see and in hindsight, expectations for the Ship were very low from my perspective. What we expected from the story was so little that the minimal interactions between Izuku and Kacchan seemed to be assimilated quite carefully and mainly in spaces dedicated only to the ship.

Furthermore, the sparking discussion about whether "bakudekus were apologists for abusers" attracted so many antis and haters that the whole thing became horrible. At one point, blocking them was no longer enough to be safe from hate. And being part of the fandom required so much energy that even I, who was just a shadow who liked or reblogged content in the fandom, needed to control my exposure time to social media.

And what happened next, to reach the expectations that the fandom has now?

The pandemic of 2020 and Bakugo Katsuki: Rising.

That chapter, added to the new influx of fans brought by the pandemic and its quarantines, diverted the path that we believed was set for Kacchan and Izuku as a group. Suddenly, many things that we thought only belonged to the realm of fanfic became accessible through canon.

To begin with, no one imagined that kind of sacrifice on Kacchan's part in the manga. Nobody believed the hospital scene was possible, nor that it was possible for him to ask Izuku for forgiveness or to cry for the loss of his quirk (and what that meant for both of their lives).

How could expectations not rise in the collective because of this, both old and new fans? How to avoid it for those of us who live through its darkest times as fans? How to control the hope of those who feel vindicated by the narrative?

In the end, the nature of expectations is fluctuating over time, unpredictable if we do not pay attention to them, and I am not here to tell anyone, not even myself, that having high expectations about something is bad. Or that having hope about something that helps you be happy is dangerous in the long term. Even if my past in other fandoms resulted in a painful and impossible to forget ending, I can't do that.

No one has the right to comment on the emotions of others and how they live them, how they express them. However, after eight years here, I have learned to use caution as a weapon of battle.

And how I do it? Taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture.

It's been a long road for all of us who were here from the beginning. We had ups and downs and we will continue to have them without a doubt.

Personally, I hold my expectations with a comfortable, soft and practical harness, to bring them closer, caress them from time to time and let them be. But at other times, I hold them tight so they don't get out of control.

The final idea of ​​this, and what I have learned over time, is that you should not assert yourself at any extreme. Mental, emotional and physical health is in balance, it has been proven many times.

I have hope, but I glimpse it in moderation and if we are lucky and our expectations are fulfilled, I will celebrate with joy. But if in the end these are not fulfilled, I will remember the good as well as the disappointment, although without pressure. After all, everything returns to a better place in its own time.

[mkuliatruther]

MK's (and MKulia's) odds according to EP9-13 leaks. (Spoilers, obvi.)

hey all! i have too many thoughts and instead of going on a long ramble on my priv i thought i could.. y'know.. actually share my thoughts for once! i'm gonna say this right now that my thoughts may leave a rather negative tongue, so if mkulia (or mk!) is ur comfort and u don't wanna hear anything bad i suggest not reading this!! without further ado, time to ramble!

i'll talk about MK first before i talk about my thoughts on MKulia. right off the bat: she's getting eliminated EP9. this just goes without saying i think but i want to elaborate on this more. in EP8 we have: raj | wayne | julia | MK | caleb | priya | damien | zee in EP10 we see damien:

in EP12 we see caleb:

and in EP11 we see wayne and raj's clothes:

and going back to EP10's description, both julia and priya are mentioned:

AS FAR AS EP9 GOES, this leaves: raj | wayne | julia | MK | caleb | priya | damien MK is not mentioned nor seen. at all. and yes, raj is left up in the air as well but at least there is higher hopes for our silly guy. there has been the popular theory of "well, raj may have given wayne his hoodie to remember him!" but... i think the odds of that are low? raj gifting wayne something before getting eliminated is very plausible, but i see no reason as to why he'd give away his hoodie to him? i feel like if that was the case he would have given wayne something else IMO. even if we don't take it at full face value, there's still a very low chance that MK's safe from elimination (and she'd probably be safe for like another 2 episodes if she were to be safe EP9. the odds of her being a finalist are also incredibly low). after being outed as a cheater, she hasn't been doing all that well in challenges either and since EP9's challenge has to do something with breaking objects, i can only imagine how well she'd do with that. and MKulia can make their alliance not-so-obvious-and-not-so-strong for so long. people are gonna want to break them up. now let's say MK's out EP9. this leaves both priya and julia as the only female contestants remaining in the game. and assuming they're going to add a female finalist it's going to be julia. and ALSO assuming we're going to get helpers for the finale, we MAY get more mkulia content. it's not that bad! may i also add EP9's title is 'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do' while yes this is about prileb, this could also be about mkulia. with mk getting eliminated, julia has to deal with fighting on her own. and we know very well that julia cares for MK, platonic or not. So what does this mean for MKulia? people fail to realize what mk getting eliminated means. we get to see how julia deals with it (unless she just moves on and doesn't care like what priya kind of did when millie got eliminated ... i'd cry.)

plus, if MK does get eliminated next episode we'll have more MKulia content in EP9 without a doubt. there's still so many questions left unanswered and i'm sure those will be resolved before MK goes home. and honestly, i have high hopes. i think MKulia will end off on a sweet note. do i think we'll get canon MKulia? absolutely not. it'd be really nice, but i doubt it. at best, it'll probably be up to viewers interpretation whether or not julia's care for MK comes from a romantic or platonic standpoint. i think that's how far we're going to get. calling it queer bait is a little bit of an exaggeration IMO, then again i am very picky with the fandoms i am in so i don't really know what it's like to ship something that is possibly queerbait. we just gotta buckle up and endure whatever BS will get thrown at us MKulia nation. o7

and hopefully i am very wrong about this. i have extremely low expectations so i can be happy if im wrong LMFAO!!

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

ok so i was actually kinda surprised to find that looking at the ao3 stats and adjusting for how long ofmd’s existed (a year and a half) vs how long the stucky fandom’s been around (coming up on a decade), not only is gentlebeard on par with stucky but it actually beats stucky for amount of fics written. but i’m making a prediction now just based on how i’ve observed fandoms to work: i do think the gentlebeard popularity will peter out faster than stucky did

i’m not saying bc i think gentlebeard is worse or the ofmd fandom is weak or anything, i’m saying this bc in fandom it seems like the white masc queerbait ships* have like, an absurd amount of longevity that goes way beyond the general fandom surrounding whatever media said white masc queerbait ship hails from. im thinking abt the protagonist/rival ship from the TERF wizard series that nobody decent talks about in public anymore. before we all cut jkr out of our lives, people were still churning out fics abt the main character and that racist blond kid pretty regularly. and another example, we have those scientists from pacific rim that are more popular than any of the main characters from that movie. it’s been years and the newt/hermann fandom is still going strong.

and i say “newt/hermann fandom” intentionally, bc that’s the thing that i think actually gives these ships their longevity: when there are fans who are primarily invested in a piece of media because of a noncanonical masc4masc queerbait ship, they’re not really fans of the media itself. i mean, some of them might be, but if they are then that’s in addition to being fans of this alternate queer interpretation of the media in question. they’re a fan of the fandom mass hallucination that the fans collectively and collaboratively invented of a romantic/sexual/homoerotic relationship between two guys who on-screen might hug like once or twice (or sometimes even never)

and i’m pretty sure the reason this sort of fandom phenomenon tends to have so much longevity is bc the fans have already created this whole extensive romantic storyline using what is often some pretty minimal canonical material to work with. so when the movie franchise or the tv show ends and the shippers no longer have any new canonical material to work with, they can keep going for years because really, they were already making shit up from the start.

so compared to that, gentlebeard is way different bc everything the fans might have invented on our own the show pretty much already did for us, and anything the show didn’t do yet is probably coming for us this season (or in s3, fingers crossed). i’ve mentioned before how a lot of fanfiction seems to fall on a spectrum between “fix” and “expand,” and by the end of ofmd i doubt there’s gonna be a whole lot that gentlebeard fans feel like they need to “fix.” versus stucky, where there’s so much that needs to be fixed that you might as well just throw the whole canon out.

i don't really mean any of this as a criticism or an attack on fans of queerbait ships like this, im just pointing out fandom trends that i've noticed. i myself have been deeply invested in stucky, newmann, and the gay wizard boys at different points in my life. like there is something very fun abt putting on slash goggles and making queer content out of nothing. personally though, now that we're in an age where we're getting canon queer content, im not so engaged in a lot of the ships i used to care so much about, but i don't think it's inherently wrong** for people to still enjoy some classic fandom queerbait ships. it's just a very different thing from enjoying canonical queer ships like gentlebeard

*im using “queerbait ships” loosely to include popular gay ships in media that was never in a million years going to make these characters gay.

**a clarifying point: i don't think it's inherently wrong, however there are a lot of problematic elements to this kind of fandom activity, namely the way a lot of these queerbait ships will dominate a fandom while other characters who are important in canon get completely sidelined (and yes, the sidelined characters are often women/poc). also, less importantly, when people's primary media consumption revolves around strip mining canon for shipping content, this absolutely destroys their media literacy and critical thinking. again, im not saying this to attack ppl who engage in fandom primarily through fic/art of noncanonical gay ships, i myself have done the same thing. but i think ppl who do should also make a conscious effort to also engage with fan content that centers women/poc, or at the very least need to be aware of the issues around this kind of fandom activity.

[unsaidace]

I’m seeing a hell of a lot of gatekeeping in the fandom lately, people not wanting Sterek/Destiel/Johnlock shippers to watch our show for Buddie or Bi!Buck. Besties…where do you think half of us started? I was a Sterek, Destiel, Johnlock and Merthur shipper long before I was a Buddie shipper. I’m not being funny, but I thought more eyes on our silly little weewoo show was a good thing? It boosts ratings for us, and it gives those who’ve had shitty queer ship experiences (looking at you and your queerbait-y bullshit specifically, Supernatural) a chance to enjoy a well written, strong queer ship that actually stands a chance of going canon. It’s a win for everyone. And even if Buddie never goes canon, we already have another canon queer ship to enjoy in HenRen.

I’ve been in all the fandoms that were painfully disappointed by shoddy writing and obvious queerbaiting. I remember that last season of Supernatural all too fucking well. That’s why, as far as I’m concerned, anyone who wants to come into our fandom and truly appreciate our show is welcome on my blog. This is a safe space for all.

[dinitride-art]

Why Byler Would Be a Failure of a Queerbait

Queerbaiting is used to draw in an audience and usually results in a strong fandom. It’s goal is to gather a larger audience, and the audience that would not want queer characters. What I’ve noticed about it, is that it usually is comprised to two straight characters who are good friends. They then sprinkle stuff into interviews outside the media from actors. Things like, maybe she likes her? I guess you’ll just have to find out in the next season! Or saying they could see it happening. Basically anything that would draw in people who want to see a queer pairing, but keeping a reasonable amount of doubt available to those who don’t want to see a queer pairing. Also fan service when the queer bait is being directed at an audience of mostly straight women shipping two male characters. It’s a marketing tactic.

Queer baiting does sometimes result in queer characters, but not the ones that they’re marketing. Or if it is the ones their marketing, they immediately die. The Queer baiting and bury your gays combo. See, supernatural. Having canon queer characters usually isn’t what is intended. They aren’t important to the plot, and can be easily disposed of once they’ve played their part. Their part being covering up any trace of queer bait with the argument that they actually have a queer character in their show. These characters, more often than not, are one dimensional side characters and aren’t there to stay. Main characters revealed as queer, can’t be more than one, and are only revealed at the last possible moment as not to lose the part of the audience not being queer baited.

Stranger Things has two characters that are canonically queer and are relevant to the plot. Robin on her own could be seen as potential queerbait, if byelr were at that time, popular enough to warrant baiting. The queer side character backtrack comes after pressure from a queer baited audience. Not before. Prior to season four, there were more people on tumblr who shipped Mike and El, than Mike and Will. On tumblr. In fact, there were so few byler shippers, that they were in a position where they could be targeted by Mike and El shippers with no consequences. In season three there would be no reason to even think about smoothing over anger from a baited fandom. There was no fandom to be baited. The audience being baited needs to actually be present for it to work.

With one queer character introduced there is no need for another. If Robin were a side character who died in season three then that might allow for another queer character to be introduced in season four. However, Robin is very much alive in season four. She’s not going anywhere and actually has a character arc discussing both her as a person, and her experience as a lesbian in the eighties in Hawkins. That’s pushing it for queer bait. It’s really pushing it.

Will Byers is in love with Mike Wheeler. That’s canon in season four. It’s been built up to since the beginning. If Stranger Things was baiting a queer audience, this would be a weird move. Considering that Byler shippers have never been worth noting before season four, and that Will’s the character that they built the foundation of the show off of, this is a terrible option for queerbaiting. Not because it wouldn’t draw a queer audience that wasn’t to see queer characters, but because it would push away the audience that doesn’t. That is a line that they cannot cross. Will Byers would be crossing that line, and then some. This character is not one that can be thrown away without consequence. He’s important and affects almost everything that happens. I have never seen a main character be queer, and have their story represented in a genuine manner. Never would it affect a central straight relationship. They wouldn’t dare lose a single member of a heteronormative audience.

Two queer characters that are this important are not queer bait. They are not a marketing tactic, they’re integral to the story. Their experiences are integral to the story. Robin Buckley was the first straightbait I have ever witnessed. She is a queer character who was a character first, and queer after the work was put in to make the audience see her as a person. This character is enough to say that Stranger Things represented a queer character well.

Will Byers says that Stranger Things is about queer people. He’s in love with another main character, and it’s affecting the plot. Will Byers being in love with Mike Wheeler is actively changing Mike and El’s relationship. It has been since the beginning.

You can’t queer bait an audience that isn’t there. You can’t bring in a queer character to cover your asses when no one’s accusing you of anything. This isn’t something I’ve ever seen before. Robin is introduced in preparation for Will. It’s the literally opposite of queer baiting. It’s creating a story with queer characters, about queer characters, and marketing it to a straight cisgender audience.

Queer baiting has never been done like this. Because this isn’t queer baiting. It doesn’t effectively function as queer baiting because there was no audience, and their largest audience is the one they’re testing. It is more of a problem to lose a straight audience than a queer one that barely exists.

Byler cannot be queer bait because that’s not how queer bait works. There are not two canon queer characters in a queer bait. Certainly not one of the characters the plot has been centred around since the beginning. And definitely not a character that they would lose members of their audience for writing him as gay.

Will Byers is in love with Mike Wheeler. Will’s relationship to Mike is still important to both of them even after the audience sees this. In fact, Will is affecting Mike’s decisions, and it’s stressed how much he cares for him. Mike and El’s relationship is in shambles and Will is the character they’ve chosen to get involved in that.

This doesn’t happen.

Will is in love with Mike, and he’s still someone who Mike cares about. There’s no distance put in their relationship. They actually spent an entire arc repairing and strengthening it.

Will Byers is in love with Mike Wheeler.

And he’s still alive. He’s still important. He’s still important to Mike.

I literally don’t know what to do with Mike and Will. Because it’s not queer bait. It doesn’t function as queer bait because queer bait is not an aspect of the story. It’s always marketing to an audience. Never an experience or a conversation or anything that’s significance goes further than saying there’s a queer character for the sake of having a queer character.

And it’s never a main character.

When your main character is queer, your story is queer.

They cannot use queer bait as a marketing tactic because they’ve already committed to writing a queer story. Their main audience is not queer. There’s no reason to queer bait a straight audience that doesn’t want queer characters in the first place. It doesn’t work like that. Queer baiting has never worked like this.

This isn’t queer bait. It never has been.

They’re going for it. They are actually going for it. And I can’t wait to see it.

[toskarin]

Not to be That Person but I feel like WFM only has ultra-fans because it’s gay, or at least that’s the impression I’m getting from Twitter. I can get adamantly defending it in the sense of idiots calling it queerbait but that’s about it.

I mean, that is a fair reason to be a fan of it. for my part, if WfM weren't gay I would feel so completely cold on it right now. the fact it's a yuri series gives it an identity that it would otherwise lack, even if it still had a female protag

but I do get where those feelings are coming from because I'm very much of the mind that WfM is just... a mess. it's disappointing to see what I thought had the strong potential to be one of my favourite gundam series now slipping below that mark. it's still my favourite yuri mecha anime, but that's a hell of a bracket restriction

it's the gundam cycle to go "oh this has the potential to be an unambiguously good series with no caveats!" and then it gets close to the end of its planned run and makes you eat those words. it's just usually because the writers were banking on additional time they didn't get, not because they (seemingly, speculation, etc.) tried to bring the series more in-line with fan expectations lol

[dearweirdme]

Why are Jikookers so desperate to have Jimin be with JK? Why does the desperation blind them to reality and make them speak nonsense and drag Taehyung? What do they get out of it? Do they think they are helping Jimin or Jungkook by hurting someone they care for?

I cannot understand how Jikookers can witness Jungkook calling Taehyung the most handsome man in the world over and over again in various ways and still think he'd prefer Jimin's looks. If he were really with Jimin, the insane amount of times he has said how handsome Taehyung is would be a problem in a relationship. Jungkook clearly means it and wants to say it.....often!

I cannot understand how Jikookers dismiss all the dates and private trips  Taekook have taken with one another over the years or the fact that Jungkook is clearly friends with all Taehyung's friends. I haven't seen the same with any other BTS members.

I cannot understand how Jikook have 2 strong competing ships plus an ex girlfriend to compete with and are still so confident in their ship with barely any evidence, most of which can be easily debunked.

I also cannot understand how Jikookers can vilify Taehyung when we know how much Jimin and Jungkook both love him and vice-versa. My only conclusion is that they may be part of that 4% part of the population that are sociopaths. I am serious, because it makes zero sense.

Hi anon!

I actually understand very well why Jkk is a ship. Ships aren't really special. There's many of them, I can name quite a few from the top of my head.. some even out of kpop spaces. People like the idea of two celebs together and enjoy when they interact. Most ships are just that though. Jk and Jm have great chemistry, they have a genuine close friendship, they are seen together a lot, and they are both extremely popular individuals.. that's basically all that's needed for a ship to exist I think.

It does cross a certain border when thing are being made up though. When things are made into something they are not. Jkkrs do this to an extreme extent. From theories with numbers and data that are based on their own ideas and not on Jk and Jm's, to thinking Jm was hiding in a bathroom when Jk and Tae were doing a live together. From making a bitemark which Jm and Jk themselves explained into a hickey, to making enlistment some sort of romantic statement. And the most harmfull thing they do, is paint Tae as the villain, as the meddler, the queerbaiter, the attentionseeker. They completely go against what both Jk and Jm have said about their relationship with Tae. It's the creation of animosity between three guys who are best friends, no matter what you feel about their relationships.

All members call each other cute and handsome and whatnot, so I don't feel this is a strong point, same goes for the hangouts and friends minlging, because Jk and Jm do also hang out without Tae and they do share similar friends if I'm correct. But those things are not what make Jk and Tae real for me, and what make Jm and JK not real.

It's in the way they interact. And in that we find a real difference, because Tae and Jk are closer physically.. and they do drift to each other more. I've been doing a lot of rewatching.. and every episode or interview I watch I ask myself... what is it? I understand missing Tae and Jk's closeness to a certain degree, but I do not understand how people can see Jm and Jk and think... that's romance. Also a big one... there is no mystery between Jk and Jm.. like, at all!

[soleminisanction]

I’d pay real money to see your analysis on steph and cass’s relationship 😭 you’re the only mfker on this site doing Stephanie’s character any justice w your amazing character analysis despite being the resident Stephanie Hater TM I owe you my life

Ha, thank you. It is very confusing that my feelings about Steph so often seem to boil down to, "I hate you because you deserve to be written better, goddammit!"

That said, I'm not totally sure I'm qualified to talk about Steph and Cass's relationship in its full extent because I haven't read their "foundational text" -- which is to say, Cass's Batgirl run. I've read pieces of it, but never the storylines where they hang out, and I can't deny that the knowledge of Steph's presence is a big part of what's made me avoid what I know, objectively, to be a fantastic series.

From what I have seen of their relationship, in family crossovers and Steph's Batgirl and their modern appearances (everything Cass has been in except for Batgirls, and about half of that series, but not a consecutive run of issues) plus general fandom osmosis... my personal feeling is that I'm not a fan.

For one, I can never see their modern cutesiness as anything less than full-on queerbaiting. Steph reads as fully straight to me, and when I say that, I don't mean, "hrr drr she's never shown romantic interest in girls before" because that's bullshit. What I mean is that, of all the femme-aligned Bat-people in the franchise, Steph is both by far the most gender conforming and the most male-oriented (of the modern age; obviously Betty and Kathy Kane are a different story). When they shave her head for Future State or the Earth-3 Mary Sue Batwoman, it doesn't look like her, it looks like she's trying to be Cassie Sandsmark. And her motivations are very often tied up in men, whether that man is her father, her boyfriend, or Batman. Since she came back from the dead and they threw out all the complicated character nuance that led to War Games, they really haven't given her much more than that to work with, and it's not like those motivations were ever fully separate from men either.

So to me, the more their modern comic appearances try to push this idea that Stephanie is the most importantest person in Cass's life, the more it feels like they're writing poor Cass to be in love with her straight friend, who in turn is either (generous interpretation) clueless to her affections or (ungenerous interpretation) stringing her along because the attention feeds Steph's ego.

And that perception isn't helped by the fact that I feel like their relationship, as it's written in canon, is extremely one-sided. Like, Steph dies, and Cass spirals, mourning her and hallucinating her presence. Cass gets written into books like Spirit World all by herself and Steph still gets mentions and shout-outs as an important person in her life. People draw art with Cass owning Steph's merch, and she spent so much time in Batgirls talking about how strong and special and important Stephanie is.

Meanwhile, Stephanie spent her time in Batgirls talking about how being a Batgirl made her feel special and awesome. Cass gives her the Batgirl costume at the start of her run of the same name and then disappears and is never seen or mentioned again. She doesn't show up nearly as much on her own, but the last time she did (in Robins) I'm pretty sure Cass wasn't mentioned once, not even as like a flash-in-the-pan cameo during her "Spoiler, leader of the Teen Titans" fantasy sequence.

Pair all that up with the fact that Steph really doesn't get stories of her own and instead turns up in other people's adventures at random, often with Cass at her side as a glorified cameo and... yeah, it all just feels very one-sided to me, like the relationship exists for the same reason the writers forced Tim and Steph back together in 2016. They don't know what to do with Steph if she's not somebody's Designated Love Interest, and since she can't be that to Tim anymore they've shifted to baiting a relationship they'll never actually pull the trigger on with Cass.

It just kinda sucks. Steph should get her own stories. And Cass shouldn't be reduced to her fucking Kato.

[ilistentogirlinred]

a bunch of ideas for essays i have

ESSAY IDEAS:

fandom and parasocial relationships with celebs

primarily musicians

KPOP!!!

shipping

how this effects the idols themselves

and the fans perception of idols

“delulu”

competitive nature

groups

positions

obsession

racism

infantilisation

“maknaes”

lisa, jungkook

ONE DIRECTION

fucking larries

obsession

FITTH HARMONY

SWIFTIES

the idolisation

white feminism?

performative activism

NOT SEEING CELEBS AS REAL PEOPLE WITH FEELINGS!!!

mysoginy in fandom culture

internalised mysogyny

mysogyny in the works themselves

how that is internalised

the prevalence of m/m ships

patriarchy!

boo

KPOP!!!

shipping

how this effects the idols themselves

+ their friendships with each other

and the fans perception of idols

homophobia in the industry

“delulu”

competitive nature

groups

positions

obsession

racism

non fans who dislike the industry/fans

infantilisation

“maknaes”

lisa (crazy horse)

jungkook (seven, etc)

DEBUTING ACTUAL CHILDREN

THOSE ARE CHILDREN WTF DUDE

SHE IS BARELY 14

SHE IS 13

SHE WAS 12 WHEN SHE WAS ON THE SHOW

possible human rights violations?

work hours

neglect

mental health issues

suicides

beomhan therapy video (managers)

homophobia in the industry

if an idol comes out, fans will treat it as “proof” that their ship is “canon”

or will just be outright homophobic

FANSERVICE

its not gay but…

influence of fandom on modern media

queerbaiting/queercoding to attract an audience

destiel

teen wolf

bbc sherlock

tropes

enemies to lovers

DONE WRONG

queer rep in media

queerbaiting/coding to attract viewers

supernatural, sherlock

destiel, johnlock

teen wolf

queer coding in disney!

accidental?

LUCA!!!

cultural differences?

anime

YOI, SK8, Haikyuu

Naruto

superwholock -> ourgoodshadows

early 2000s/2010s YA dystopia plague, ya books in general

hunger games

marketing

movies

divergent!!!

bad

no second half of the third one lmao

maze runner

technically first!

LOVE TRIANGLES

twilight (either read or consult ms elloy, mya, etc)

hunger games

“big strong guy” vs “childhood friend”

predictable

repetitive

c’mon guys make it gay for once

try a conga line love triangle

that resolves itself with polyamory?

SPORTS ANIME

why is it so popular?

fandom, duh.

ok but why?

easy. gay anime boys

why is sports anime so gay?

power of friendship?

close bonds between people of the same gender

lack of characters from the opposite gender so less heterosexuality and f/m ships

but thats fandomy

the inherent homoeroticism of sharing a locker room

referring back to friendship/close bonds

BLUE LOCK

HOLY CRAP BLUE LOCK

its gayer than haikyuu but there’s no power of friendship really

there are very close bonds and strange definitions of attraction tho

bachisagi, reonagi, ryusae

REONAGI SHOUJO SPINOFF

attraction -> obsession

soccer -> dream -> lack of care about self

RYUSAE FUCKED UP IDEA OF (and perception) ATTRACTION

soccer = attraction, bond, romance/sex, etc.

BACK TO HAIKYUU

rivalries

rivalry -> close friendship

mirrors enemies to lovers very slightly

tis the power of friendship

power of friendship combined with coming of age?

YUURI ON ICE!

the canon gays

SK8 the infinity

queer coding?

QUEERCODING IN ANIME

is it all perceived and unintended due to differences in cultural upbringing?

possibly but the undertones are still very much there

maybe its censorship? who knows

killugon -> possibly find sources

the homoerotic queer-coded rivalry or friendship

established from the start

sasunaru, kagehina, bakudeku, renga, killugon, fucking soukoku, etc

also tsukkiyama, matchablossom, leopika, etc

SOUKOKU (and the rest of bsd)

the irl authors - were they queer?

FIND SOURCES!!!

[akatsuki-shin]

Can I ask a few questions about Gojo/Getou?

1.) What songs that came to your mind when you think of them (SatoSugu)?

2.) Do you think SatoSugu are queerbaiting?

3.) In Role Reversal AU, do you think Getou can kill Gojo for the greater good (like what Gojo did)?

4.) So is he (Gojo) really not feel anything with Amanai and Haibara's death?

5.) How can Gojo not realizing Geto's depression (is it because he always sent on solo missions)?

6.) (This last one is kinda a joke) Are you a GoGe or GeGo shipper?

1). "Wherever You are" by ONE OK ROCK because this fan video made for their 24-Dec death anniversary last year absolutely destroyed me, and you guys should be destroyed by it, too.

2). No, because as far as I'm concerned, that kind of best friend, bromance, soulmate-like relationship between male characters are common in practically every shounen out there for so many years, and they can be considered as fan service at most (after all, the spending power of otaku girls in Japan are already a force to be recognized in the anime industry). Besides, you don't have to necessarily view them as being romantic-coded or something. There are times when you just found that one person with whom you both totally understand each other, care about each other, feel you are equal, have the exact same vibe, that you two end up being inseparable.

3). Strength-wise, I don't think Geto is stronger than Gojo, so first of all, it would depend on whether Gojo is willing to be killed by him or if Gojo was so severely weakened that he couldn't fight back normally.

Emotion-wise, yes, I think Geto is the kind of person who is willing to make a huge sacrifice for the greater good, even if it will cost him his own life. That said, if he does end up killing Gojo, it will give a significant impact and change to his personality from thereafter.

4). Gojo is different from Geto when it comes to the way he thinks and express feelings/emotions. Geto cares too much about everyone else but himself. Gojo cares about those close to him and he won't unnecessarily hurt strangers either, but if situation calls for it, he is willing to make sacrifices. Like in Shibuya Arc, people like Geto (or Yuji) would probably prioritize saving the civilians, but Gojo prioritized exorcising the Special Grade curses.

First of all, in Riko's case, he was literally high after just being awakened to his true power so he was incapable of feeling anything else. But it isn't as if he's not angry at all; had Geto said "ok" when they met there, he would've massacred the entire cult right then and there because he knows they are the real cause of Riko's death.

There is too little information about Gojo's reaction about Haibara's death but I'm guessing that rather than losing Haibara, the thing that angers him the most would be the way the conservative higher-ups are running things that ends up in his junior's death. Because literally the reason why Haibara died is because the higher-ups's blunder in detecting the curse's level for their mission.

Satoru is born in the Gojo clan; from his childhood, he must've known all the ugliness of the bureaucracy brought about by the conservatives old people. Honestly, if it were up to him, he would've straight up killed those higher-ups (he said this in canon in his anger after Yuji's first death). But in his youth, he was using Geto as a moral compass, so he didn't do it (and he might yet to care that much about it at that time) . As an adult, he already realized that killing them wouldn't solve anything, so he must replace them by a whole new generation who wouldn't commit the same mistake they did — a resolution he found after his "breakup" with Geto, after realizing that he could not save his best friend, no matter how strong he is.

Despite how he looks, Gojo is actually quite farsighted. He doesn't want to just solve emerging problems, he wants to pull them out from the roots. That's why he doesn't look like he's too affected by his comrades' death. He does feel things, but he suppresses them well enough because he knows acting on impulse won't solve the actual problem.

5). The answer to this question may relate somewhat to Gojo's personality and thoughts that I wrote for the previous question (No. 4), but there are indeed other factors.

I personally think it's more because of Geto himself than Gojo.

Geto is the kind of person who cares more about others than himself. He cares a lot about his peers, but it means he is too mindful of others for his own good, and he doesn't want to trouble them as much as he can. Everytime he has a problem, he will say he's alright and hide it behind a smile, just like when Gojo asked him if he's alright because he's gotten thinner, but Geto only laughed it off and said the summer heat's getting to him when he's been losing sleep and appetite over his trauma and dilemma.

He is literally the epitome of someone who won't seek help for his mental health problems because he doesn't want to trouble other people and ends up exploding from it in the end after his mind and heart could no longer hold it in. You can see that after he decided to become a villain, he doesn't even bother explaining to Gojo and Shoko despite those two being his closest friends, and he doesn't demand them to understand him either.

6). I'm in the "GoGe" team because Geto is way too mom and waifu material to me lmao