#They're actively choosing a fate worse than death to

[elegantartisanperson]

I never get how people in shows can just swim in their clothes, like if I'm choosing between having to walk around in wet clothes or drowning, I'm choosing the latter, thanks.

[stitching-in-time]

Voyager rewatch s3 ep 26: Scorpion pt 1

AKA, the beginning of All The Borg Crap. I do not love the Borg- I don't really like any of Voyager's continuing villains, but I've had issues with the Borg as a concept since Next Gen, and I feel like all the additional spotlight on them in Voyager just shone an even more glaring light on their flaws, but this particular episode was actually pretty decent, and better than I remembered.

For one thing, there wasn't a lot of actual Borg in it, just a lot of the crew preparing to face them, which has enough dramatic tension in and of itself. In any given episode, you know the crew is going to face a life and death scenario at some point, that's just how Star Trek, and most sci-fi, works, and you accept it as the status quo of the genre and don't think about it a lot. With the Borg, however, they're facing a fate much worse than death, and it's actually just really stressful to watch characters you love have to deal with the gnawing, existstential dread of that. Like, hmm, do I really want to think about my beloved space family facing the prospect of being turning into mindless zombie slaves? No! I do not! And the fact that Starfleet could literally have stopped the Borg forever, and didn't, because they felt sorry for them, makes it all ten times worse- but my burning hatred of the ending of 'I, Borg' is the subject for another post someday, when I do another full rewatch of TNG.

I liked the little scenes of Janeway on the holodeck in DaVinci's studio; the set is very detailed, and pretty, and they have a cozy, meditative atmosphere that acts as a nice counterbalance to the existential Borg dread and frenetic activity of basically arming themselves for war.

Having a new villain that could take down the Borg was actually a nice change- as evil as species 8472 is, it's actually a relief to have regular baddies who just want to kill everyone. It's kind of hard to judge the cgi fairly now, since it was the best they could do with the tech and budget they had at the time, but it doesn't hold up super well. (One thing I think is absolutely hilarious though is watching the DVD special features, and finding out that the pile of dead Borg was actually just action figures that they sawed apart and glued together and filmed from different angles. I thought it looked a little uncanny valley, and that's because yeah, it's literally a pile of miniature dolls. Actual mass produced merch, for children, used as an actual prop, in the actual show! Too wild!)

I appreciated the dilemma of deciding whether they should go through Borg space or not, and the disagreement between Janeway and Chakotay was well played, and pretty devastating, tbh. Chakotay always seems more ready to give up and be willing to settle for a new home, whereas Janeway never is, and considering that her stance on that has never wavered, it hurts when Chakotay disagrees with her. It hurts more when he won't concede she's right, even knowing that in her mind, she doesn't even consider not going home as an option. Chakotay must know that for her, the choice has always been get home or die trying, no third option, and that the crew would all follow her to it if she asked it of them, so it hurts when he won't back her when she takes the best option in a bad situation. On the one hand, I get where he's coming from- it would be safer to give up and go live on some planet, they could probably have had good lives- but they're Starfleet, and they'd choose Starfleet every time, and they'll chose it even when it the odds are against them. Janeway is the most Starfleet any person could ever be- and he had to know that, but when it comes down to the wire, he lets her know she's on her own when she makes that decision. At the end of the day, the hard decisions all fall to her, with no one to ask for help or intervention, and no one else to bear the weight of those decisions with, except maybe for supportive words from her crew, especially Chakotay and Tuvok. The only people she can rely on are her crew, and ultimately, Chakotay does let her down in that moment. Maybe he's too angry to be Starfleet when staring down the possible loss of everything they have on Voyager, but it still hurts that he won't even pay lip service to believing in her, for her sake, since he's going to follow her orders anyway. A heartbreaking scene, but very real. Sometimes no matter how much you love someone, you're going to end up disagreeing, and when it's something as fundamental as right or wrong, life and death, it's going to hurt worse. But still they do their jobs as though it didn't tear their hearts out. Ugh. This show sometimes!!!

Anyway, it ends on a very nailbiting cliffhanger, and I remember being pretty excited to find out what happened back in the day. Of course back then we didn't know about the cast change of doom looming ahead of us, and I'm not especially looking forward to it, but I'm hoping that maybe now, with hindsight and the perspective of a few decades, I might hate it less, or at least find things I didn't appreciate back then when it was all happening the first time. We'll see!

Tl;dr: A surprisingly suspenseful and tense episode that managed to bring a heap of character driven drama without bringing nearly any Borg directly in to it at all.

[classpectingcaxy]

Hey! Would you be willing to analyse the relationship between a Page of Breath & a Page of Doom, with the added information that these two are brothers? Or no?

Absolutely, I would!

Analysis below the cut!

Page

Pages are the "slow burn" Class, and are not inherently active or passive, but rather the nature of their Class is determined by their Aspect and how the individual chooses to use it. They have very little of their Aspect, even less than a Knight would have, and struggle immensely with it. They often have the illusion of their Aspect, with many Pages giving themselves delusions of it in the hopes that others won't see just how little of it they truly have.

This leads to Pages often being "fronters" or "maskers", people who put up a display of their Aspect in order to make up for or hide the fact they almost completely lack it.

Their role, despite their immense power, is not to take charge, but to inspire others to do so.

They serve by being a source of their Aspect both literally...AND metaphorically, inspiring others to take hold of the powers at their disposal and fight either using the Page's Aspect or fight in the name of that Aspect or it's concepts. They are not the Arthur of the story, they are the Merlin, guiding and coaxing and inspiring until those around them fulfill their own legends, and in doing so the Page fulfills their own.

Pages, when they realize their full potential, become bastions of their Aspect, being conduits, embodiments, and sources of their Aspect. This makes them one of the most potent users of their Aspect.

Overall, Pages are often immature in some way or another, playing at being mature in that very way, and take a very long time to "come into their own" so to speak. This does not mean they're bad or negative in any way, it only means that they have a lot of growing to do and require patience from those around them, as well as the encouragement to succeed.

Some Pages, however, benefit more from being knocked down than lifted up, and depending on the Aspect may find it more beneficial to be put down. Despite this, ALL Pages benefit from being challenged, but whether that challenge should be made in good faith or out of malice in order to bring the Page closer to realizing their full potential is case-by-case.

Breath

Breath is the Aspect of freedom, movement, wind, independence. It lends itself well to both Active and Passive classes.

Breath players often have extremes of Breath, for better or worse. We see this in John and Tavros, with John having too much freedom and independence, and Tavros having next to none.

They are often selfish to a degree, more interested in their own little worlds than the lives of others. This doesn't mean they're bad people, or even bad friends. It just means it may take a little effort to get them to see past their own interests or ideas.

They can also be idealistic, seeing the world a little better, or a lot better, than it really is. They see the best in things around them, even if they don't see the best in themselves, which is also common.

Breath players are highly adaptive, able to "go with the flow" in almost any situation, either comfortably or begrudgingly, and are very difficult to actually give pause. Most Breath players are able to take difficulties and challenges in stride, be it with a smile or constant complaining, and move freely from moment to moment.

They don't get too attached to anything, willing to move on from any situation they feel is harmful or problematic to their personal lives, though sometimes doing so can take quite a bit of time, if not quite a bit of effort.

Doom

Doom is the aspect of rules, fate, suffering, and death. Doom individuals are often plagued by some amount of pain or misery in their lives. They are sympathetic to suffering of all kinds, though whether this presents as a gentle and patient understanding or a rough and cold "yeah, and? Get over it" attitude is dependent on the individual's reaction to their own circumstances. They have a natural aptitude for "the rules" of a given situation, making them skilled with the laws of the world and the universe, though more to a metaphorical sense than a literal sense.

Doom players, due to their sympathetic nature, are often "bleeding hearts" in some way or another, either bleeding their own woes and frustrations with the way things are, or bleeding on behalf of those around them. This can make them either very difficult to deal with, as they spend more time complaining than much else, or overly sensitive, as they feel the woes of others much more powerfully than most.

This doesn't mean it's all there is to them, however. Their innate sense of rules and the like also mean they are likely to enjoy things like games or work, things that have set guides or methods. Anything with set boundaries, limits, and systems will be their source of comfort.

This makes Doom players more effective strategists, be it in the moment or with time to plan, because they're able to see the world as a system, as rules and limitations, and are able to "play" by those rules quite effectively.

Page of Breath + Page of Doom

As Pages, both would start off with a complete lack of their Aspects. The PoB would be entirely lacking in freedom, independence, etc, while the PoD would be entirely lacking in structure, rules, suffering, etc.

It's likely that these would be entirely caused by the other. The PoB would depend on the PoD for most things, leaning on them at every turn and looking to them to handle everything. Likewise, the PoD would likely be spared having rules set for them by the nature of being the one in charge, placed on that pedestal by the PoB and kept from suffering by the constant encouragement and support of the PoB.

This would make them extremely close, but semi-co-dependent.

It would also mean that the realization of their full potential could shatter that bond. The PoB's realization would turn them into an unyieldingly independent and free-spirited individual, while the PoD's realization would turn them into a font of death, suffering, and a relentless enforcer of the rules of the world/universe.

While it could destroy their bond, it may also reinforce it exponentially, with the PoB standing on their own giving the PoD room to breathe and be their own individual apart from the PoB, something they wouldn't have been able to do up until that point.

Likewise, the PoD would finally fully understand how to aid the PoB in channeling their freedoms and independence in ways that circumvent or outright break the rules of their universe, aiding them through using their newfound individuality to better the lives of not only themselves, but all around them.

I think this pairing is an extremely solid one, with the Classpects complimenting each other well and serving the journey of Pages perfectly, with each needing to learn to exist apart from the other to be fully realized, while still maintaining the connections that kept them together to begin with.

[megamuscle885-blog]

Oooh I like these, so I'll chime in, but the short version is: No.

But the long version is: No, because.

1) In the case of second trigger causing a cluster, we need to understand how clusters are forming in the first place, how second triggers function, and then why for both of these things. Why is the shard clustering or going through a second trigger?

For the latter it's simple since we only have one example in canon, Brian, and in his case it was because his power wasn't solving his monkey's paw. This isn't the same thing as his power being useless or powerless in the situation, I'm sure plenty of brutes have been eaten by the Siberian and their power has been useless to save them. The crux actually is that he's being thrust into the same mindset as he was in his first trigger. Trump aspects are being added, because this time the threats are parahumans, and his little-sister stand in is about to have a fate worse than death inflicted onto her.

There's also a completely new paradigm to his trigger dilemma; he needs strength, any kind of strength, from any kind of source. His own isn't enough, it's never been enough. Nothing he has or has learnt can keep Taylor safe from all the shit she's been throwing herself into. Before it was fine if he had a way to hide Aisha from malicious intent, hide himself from violence, but now he needs something that can adapt to any kind of power that might harm himself or Aisha or Taylor or the other Undersiders. So if he can't rely on his own strength, he'll borrow others. Stranger/Trump shift, losing a bit of Shaker because its no longer a dangerous environment (just bad situations they keep falling into) but a dangerous group of parahumans he's defending himself from. His monkey paw has shifted and his trauma has taken on a new aspect. This is why he moves on from Taylor, who rejected his leadership and took it out from under him whilst he was suddenly granted power over other parahumans, and also moved on from her romantically, going for the anti-Taylor, a big breasted professional thief who prefers low stakes.

Now we've explained why and how second triggers form, lets look at Clusters.

Why do Clusters form? It's not because the Shards are all triggering at the exact same time and getting 'tangled' in each-other. It's because they're actively choosing to collaborate with each-other. It's not a simple thing to orchestrate and it involves an intense amount of cooperation, something some shards don't quite like at all (see Grasping Self in Ward). It's not an automatic thing either, I bet plenty of people were triggering in Japan when Kyushu sank, but Lung didn't cluster with any of them. Shards can trigger without clustering.

It also doesn't take too much of a leap to suggest that adding new shards to the cluster, which is usually already 3-4 members, wouldn't be something the other shards would accept. Firstly, all 3-4 original members would have their powers readjusted or weakened once again to spread to the new member, and the new member's shard would also have to weaken it's host and grant powers to the cluster. For a shard that has already invested a lot into it's host, enough to second-trigger in the first place, rather than just let the host die and move on to a new one, this is a pretty tall order.

However, a newly formed cluster trying to involve an already established shard/host might be possible. There's nothing in the canon to suggest it's possible though. Nothing to suggest it's impossible either.

2) We have no evidence of clusters ever having second triggers, and there's not a lot of sense that they would. In the first place, cluster triggers are already a heavily involved process, reproducing a clustermate's trauma to a sufficient level to cause a second trigger is a tall order. Consider also that they're not like our second trigger example, that they have a single power that needs tweaking to suit new circumstances, they instead have multiple minor powers that would all have to fail in order to call for tweaking.

But then that runs into the main conceit for some clusters; sometimes clustermates must die for interesting data to be gathered. Sometimes, it's a highlander style fight to the finish, sometimes it's trading tokens for power boosts, which practically suit your question. I'm sure plenty of writers have introduced concepts like clustermates eating each-other to imbibe their DNA and therefore their powers, strengthening their own, until there is only one survivor with 4-5 major versions of their powers.

It's therefore a little counter intuitive to change the powers of a clustermate when they've reached a fail state in the experiment and will probably die soon anyways. To answer your question, if their powers were to change, I think it'd be their main power only, if their shard even bothered to do something about it.

3) Okie, so clones and twins. We've seen that clones' powers can be identical and can also be tweaked to cause different effects. See S9k and Echidna clones respectively. We've seen that twins can have either extremely similar powers or radically different powers. Fenja and Menja in the former, Tristan and Byron in the latter. Why did Capricorn go case 70 where Fenja and Menja didn't? I suspect it has something to do with their triggers.

I think Fenja and Menja had the same trigger trauma, but that meant that the shard could distinguish between them, because they were both generating data. I haven't read a lot of Ward, but I think because Tristan and Byron's trigger trauma was different, the shard was getting fed conflicting data from the same genetic match and had to choose between keeping them separate but with the same power or merging them and getting two powers.

I think any kind of clone parahuman is unable to have a second trigger for the same reason Taylor couldn't have a second trigger. The power is already experimenting with some new power bandwidth, and Echidna's broken shard was helping somewhat with generating new criteria to create things like Chitter and Scurry, but it doesn't get to then receive the new versions and tweak them for later. They're disposable compared to the original host. A 'what if' to keep the original on their toes. All of the Echidna clones get killed in the end anyway. S9k clones were designed by bonesaw, so I can't really say that they're running off the same rules as their original parahumans.

To answer your question, the canon example of twins who had powers but weren't case 70s would be Fenja and Menja, and I don't think twins can second trigger while they're still alive. Again, the monkey's paw has to come into effect. I could see a case where the surviving sister second triggers without her sister, and it draws her dead sister into herself and you get altered powers and a case 70 situation. For Fenja and Menja, they could become Hel and get moon/sun, night/day alterations on their powers, but their powers are getting big and durable so I don't really know how you can riff off that. There really isn't very many problems they can't solve by getting bigger and more durable, not without that problem completely overpowering them before they can second trigger and killing them.

My headcanon here is; if there's only one twin surviving, they can second trigger and maybe end up with a case 70 situation where the dead twin comes back.

So what's the very long version? Yes, you just have to know what you're writing as an exception. I think all three of those should be allowed and would be very interesting.

Second trigger Questions

I've read both Worm and Ward twice now and I loved both. I just have a couple of questions about second triggers.

If someone where to have a second trigger right as some one else was triggering could they become a part of a cluster?

If some one is in a cluster and they second trigger does that effect their cluster mates and is it only their main power that is changed or all of them.

If twins who were not case 70 capes second trigger next to each other could they become case 70s?