#No canon queer ensemble since Jackson either

[isca-rambles]

Oh man. I'd started to get an inkling but to have it confirmed sucks. I really hope it wasn't under similar circumstances to the other departures of Black cast members, but I feel like if it was on good terms then there'd have been a little more context given to it and he'd have an episode or two for a proper exit storyline. But if he's just not returning. But goddamit I really loved Tru and Aaron. Hopefully they don't kill him off and let him leave or transfer due to the trauma of everything he went through, which would be understandable, but also I'm just not sure it'd be in his character. He did so much to become a cop, and he has such a bond with Celina, it seems a lot that he'd just walk away without even an episode or two to lead up to it. And, selfishly, another friend Lucy is going to lose. He'll never see Chenford get back together :( Obviously none of the show-universe implications are important in the grand scheme of things, but it still sucks. He was such a good character. I really hope the departure was on good terms and he just wanted to focus on other work. That maybe he'd be open to coming back for guest spots. A wedding, mayhaps. But I have a feeling probably not.

It's a worrying trend though. For a show with a pretty diverse cast, considering Tim and John are the only white male members of the main ensemble (I guess maybe Wesley counts and this new guy now so that number is creeping up a bit), this show has a real issue with keeping Black cast members. And now they're bringing in a new Black cast member. Was it already planned prior to Tru departing or as a response to it? Because either way, with Tru coming in after Titus left, it feels a bit...yeah. It's really not my place to speculate or comment, it's my place to listen and support. But it does leave a bad taste.

What the fuck

[nyxelestia]

You're basically saying that TW stole a bunch of tropes commonly used by Stereks in their romantic Sterek fics, and in the next breath blaming Sterek fans for leaving when it became evident tptb had no intention of exploring their relationship. Viewers have no obligation to continue watching a show they feel no attachment to, and contrary to Posey's statement, I don't think there is any right or wrong reason to watch a show. You also say that the baiting/encouragement by actors, tptb etc 1/-

was benign and innocuous, as they were only doing their job. You say that Stydia and Scallison was hyped as well. Sterek was multitudinously bigger, which was reflected by the hyping of it and the many articles written about it in mainstream media. You then blame Sterek fans for buying into it, which OK, I guess we were all supposed to be savvy enough to realize it was all for funsies. I disagree with the notion that it’s the job of the cast and crew to tease a queer ship that they have no 2/-

make canon, just because fans enjoy it. The honest thing would have been to say something along the line of “we see you dig Sterek, that’s great! It’s not going canon but we support your creativity”. You see basis for Scerek in canon, which awesome. Write all the fics about them. Don’t however discredit the vast number of people who did see canon basis for Sterek. Not everyone has been fooled by corrupted gifsets. As for the clusterfuck that is the bi-baiting of Stiles. That’s just ugly. ¾

They baited and baited his bisexuality, whilst being adamant of not ever explicitly stating it. I think the fact that the writers felt compelled to get Stiles a gf, is the main warning sign of their incompetence. “Erica’s going to be girlfriend material. Gage leaves. Oh shit, we have to bring in another girl. YES, an as of yet completely forgotten Hale girl! Adelaide leaves. Desperation grows. AH, dub-con sex between two mentally ill teens in an institution!”. Sterek fans are not at fault here.

Ever seen that gifset about “when Stiles was being protective of Derek” when Chris was threatening him and Jackson in the last episode of Season 1? Derek was never mentioned in that scene, and Stiles was talking about Scott and Kate. // Just a friendly reminder that Derek was in fact mentioned in that scene. STILES: “Would you prefer I locked him in the basement and burned the whole house down around him?” … “Oh right, Derek said you guys had a code. Guess no one ever breaks it.” -Transcript

Posey has always referred to TW as “his own show” - ex: the cast interview with Cody C. and Dylan Sprayerry in which Posey states that shipping non canon pairing doesn’t make any sense and it’s incredibly offensive and disrespectful towards the writer, the producers and everyone involved in “his show” - and he also became a producer, so… Why did Posey never address what HIS show have done to Arden/Kira? He simply said that “Scott doesn’t need a love interest in order to be interesting” instead

You are picking and choosing from interviews to supplement your agenda.

TPTB aren’t a monolith, either - they are a group of writers, producers, and actors who all have to answer to someone else (MTV), even Jeff Davis. Collectively, have their own agenda, their own plans for the story as a work of narration, and the show as a production. They have to react and take into account the fanbase - but that does not mean that fans get to dictate the show, either. They also regularly disagree with each other, have no idea what the central narrative will be, or sometimes just aren’t in constant communication with each other.

Queerbaiting, generally speaking, is a shitty thing to do. Especially on a show that also, already, has queer characters. On that, we agree. And I don’t know how you got “benign and innocuous” out of “they were doing their jobs”. You are, again, trying to put words into my metaphorical mouth to make a strawman argument.

And you’re right, we are going to disagree on most of the rest.

Such as reasons for watching a show. There is a right reason and a wrong reason for watching a show. It’s not about characters or ships or plot - it’s about watching the show to enjoy the show, vs watching it because you keep waiting for something to enjoy (and then getting mad when something that was never supposed to be there, isn’t there).

There is a world of difference between watching the show for inspiration for Sterek, and watching the show expecting Sterek to happen. There is a world of difference between watching the show because you like a side character, and waiting for that side character to supplant the main character as the star of the show. There is a world of difference between hoping for a ship and expecting a ship.

There is also a world of difference between “listening to fandom” and “bowing down to fandom”. By and large, the producers and actors of the show were listening. They were not obeying, they never had to, and they never should have had to.

As for the actors, there is also a world of difference between “I’d be down to play this” and “this is probably going to happen”. There is a world of difference between “I have some ideas for this dynamic” and “I want these two characters to hook up/end up together”. There is a world of difference between “this could happen (as could many other things)” vs “this probably will happen (as opposed to many other things)”.

It’s that element of picking and choosing again. Take Hoechlin’s idea for how the Darach confrontation in Derek’s loft could’ve gone - his idea was for a platonic interaction between two characters who he refers to as friends and partners in crime. Fandom took it as a shipping scene. This is probably the force that also leads to people seeing so many “Sterek questions” in interviews and panels that they forget - or never see in the first place - things like questions about Stydia, or other ships, or other character arcs unrelated to shipping at all.

I don’t pretend to have seen all the Teen Wolf interviews and such ever, but what I have seen is that along with Sterek, the cast have a lot to say about a lot of ships, hypothetical and otherwise. Of course, if you’re only ever looking for what they say about your own ship - and you only ship one thing - you’ll never see them.

(Which is probably why Posey got accused of being a homophobe. If you only pay attention to what he says about Sterek, then it’s easy to make that accusation, because you’ve never seen or paid attention to him talking about being open to Scott having a boyfriend, and being down to play Sciles or Scisaac.)

Yes, they were pandering to Sterek shippers. They were also pandering to Stydia shippers. They were pandering to Scallison shippers even while building an Allisaac relationship. They were pandering to Sterek and Stydia shippers while also pandering to the former Sterica base with Stora, and then with Stalia.

And I hate to break it to you, but Stiles’ “would you prefer I locked him in a basement?” line was still about Scott, not Derek. The conversation was about Kate, and Stiles didn’t particularly care about Derek in that scene, or in that season as a whole. Mentioning a piece of information provided by Derek was still about Kate.

I also really hate to break this to you, but Posey’s promotion doesn’t actually give him much sway over the decisions made about the show, just how those decisions are carried out. Equating the star of a show referring to said show as “theirs” and equating it with production power is a strawman argument - you are ascribing power and influence that Posey does not have to him, then blaming him for not using it, and for not putting his career on the line to speak more openly about the problems of the show.

It would ultimately achieve nothing and fix nothing - remember, racism isn’t just about individual shows, but also about the broader industry, and bias against WOC is rampant in Hollywood, MTV and otherwise. Look at fucking Hawaii 5-0 - if Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park could not get parity on a show whose ensemble they have been a part of since the very beginning of the show, what was Posey going to accomplish for himself or for Cho?

Especially given that he’s facing some tremendous cuts, himself - as a lot of people have pointed out, Scott practically became a side character on his own show in Season 6 to make room for Stydia, and this is with Posey having a production component in the show that was not there in the earlier seasons.

tl;dr - The show did its job of trying to pander to every ship. Sterek fandom took it personally when their ship wasn’t given even more preferential treatment than it was already getting, just because it also happened to be so big.

I’ve said before that fandom often blames Scott for failing to be omniscient. What you are doing is blaming Posey for failing to be omnnipotent.