#It yearns for peaches and acorns

[localcreamery]

I got a silly idea earlier today and had to draw it.

[thelegendofclarke]

Thank you for fighting the good fight. I was relieved when the ASoIaF fandom began to recognise it was malicious and wrong to call Arya a misogynist, and now I yearn for the day when we begin to recognise - whatever a person might believe about their own intentions in doing so - that it's equally malicious and wrong to call Sansa a misogynist.

Yes, this! Because I mean, honestly…  

Anon you have pretty much hit the nail on the head for one of my big time frustrations with this particular conversation. When it comes down to it I think that generally I have two primary issues with the way this specific Discourse™ is discoursed basically:

That often times people seem to want to either temporarily disregard or wholly ignore the deeply negative connotations of words like “misogynist” and “bully” and insist that applying them to Sansa isn’t vilifying, shaming, criticizing her ect. ect. But then they still act like its some kind of ~great moral victory~ or weird admission of guilt when they can get a Sansa fan to say she has internalized misogyny.

The pretty inconsistent application of criticism for enforcing misogynistic norms and compulsory femininity, and how it really seems to be focused on, like, one or two characters.

So often it seems that internalized misogyny in this situation is presented like just another neutral character trait or something. But its really not. Like, if someone were to be describing Sansa and said “Sansa Stark, female, 11 years old, red hair, blue eyes, kind, naive, misogynist” only one of those descriptors is going to make you go wait, what?! uuuhhh ~one of those things is not like the others~

Misogyny is not a nice word, its not even a neutral word; it is a decidedly negative word, just like any other moralistic accusation or criticism of discrimination/prejudice. I mean, misogyny is literally defined as “a hatred of women;” this is not a positive concept, its an incredibly unfavorable frame of reference. To try and say its not a criticism in certain circumstances, such as when its applied to Sansa, feels pretty misleading (and at times just downright dishonest) to me. I am perfectly comfortable saying Sansa has internalized misogyny, its just true. What I’m not perfectly comfortable with is stopping the conversation there. What I’m not perfectly comfortable with is the idea that Sansa deserves vilification or disdain. 

The other thing that ~grinds my gears~ is that, at least in my personal experience, basically all of the Forced Compulsory Femininity discussions seem to be focused around Sansa (and to some extent Septa Mordane and Cat, but not as much from what I have seen). I have NEVER seen anyone talk about any of the other female characters, who are grown women, that force traditionally feminine standards and practices on Arya. 

For example, I have never seen anyone criticize Ravella Smallwood:

Arya promptly found herself marched upstairs, forced into a tub, and doused with scalding hot water. Lady Smallwood’s maidservants scrubbed her so hard it felt like they were flaying her themselves. They even dumped in some stinky-sweet stuff that smelled like flowers.And afterward, they insisted she dress herself in girl’s things, brown woolen stockings and a light linen shift, and over that a light green gown with acorns embroidered all over the bodice in brown thread, and more acorns bordering the hem. . . — ASoS

“I have no gowns of leaves,” said Lady Smallwood with a small fond smile, “but Carellen left some other dresses that might serve. Come, child, let us go upstairs and see what we can find.”It was even worse than before; Lady Smallwood insisted that Arya take ‘another’ bath, and cut and comb her hair besides; the dress she put her in this time was sort of lilac-colored, and decorated with little baby pearls. — ASoS

Ooorrr the girls at The Peach:

Arya tried to tell them that she’d been bathed twice at Acorn Hall, not a fortnight past, but the red-haired woman was having none of it. Two serving wenches carried her up the stairs bodily, arguing about whether she was a girl or a boy. The one called Helly won, so the other had to fetch the hot water and scrub Arya’s back with a stiff bristly brush that almost took her skin off. Then they stole all the clothes that Lady Smallwood had given her and dressed her up like one of Sansa’s dolls in linen and lace. — ASoS

I’m not arguing these women should be criticized, but it’s something I have pointedly noticed. It suggests that it’s not compulsory femininity in general, but Sansa’s compulsory femininity specifically, that’s the problem; it implies Sansa is the problem. I know Sansa is Arya’s sister, and therefore obviously has more potential influence on her. But the fact that Sansa’s suggestion of “You should put on something pretty” gets constantly decried as forcing Arya to conform to traditionally feminine standards, while these other examples of Arya actually being physically forced to wear dresses are ignored, is just another thing that makes the whole conversation feel suspiciously disingenuous.

Both Sansa and Arya are products of their environment, but neither of them are Misogynists. I feel like its just really pointless and completely counter productive to use those kind of labels without considering things like ~ooohhh ya know~ context and what they really mean.