#If nothing else I'm interested to see who here is a literal babby and who's not

[saints-who-never-existed]

One thing I find really hilarious to think about sometimes is just how much older/younger a lot of the real-life Expedition crew members were compared to their fictional counterparts.

Like, 25 year-old Goodsir, anyone? Or 27 year-old Collins for that matter?

26 year-old Bridgens and 37 year-old Peglar? Ludicrous!

On the one hand, it blows my mind a little bit that I'm currently the same age as the likes of Fitzjames and Le Vesconte.

But on the other hand, I look at all of my male contemporaries - God's Perfect Idiots to a man - and think "Aw shit, yeah, it all makes sense now! Men are just fuckin' like that, huh?"

[warpweighted]

Disney's Descendants is still just as. Interesting as before, but THIS TIME I HAVE A THEORY

You see, on my first watch-through I thought that Ben and the person who helped Carlos not be afraid of dogs in that one scene were two different people, because Ben is just that bland in, like, every other scene WHICH I THINK IS VERY CURIOUS -

Also of note, why did Ben think it was a good idea to set the VKs free in the first place? He has no reason to believe that children don't take after their parents, because as far as I can tell every single protagonist kid is nearly the same as their parents - like, yes, they're not the same people, but if Doug-son-of-Dopey was a smooth-talker or something then we'd actually have a counter to this assertion. So to his knowledge the VKs are pretty much just babby villains!

And yes, sympathy was probably a factor, however we're going to ignore this in favor of my theory.

My theory? BEN IS MIND-CONTROLLED.

Fact: Ben shows little to no personality beyond Smiling Sweet Love Interest, including knowingly allowing himself to be manipulated by Mal, except for the time he teaches Carlos that dogs are good actually (which starts out as tourney practice), and what little we see of him on the tourney field.

Fact: Ben is capable of trace amounts of magic (he turned the statue of his dad into the statue of the Beast). Funky. No one else can do magic w/o a magical object to hand.

Fact: Ben didn't transform into beast!Ben in the climactic battle in the second movie, which was really weird. What was up with that? That was definitely where they were leading.

Fact: Ben did turn into beast!Ben in the third movie.

Fact: beast mode is kind of like an explosion of the angry, imperfect side of his personality. It's an explosion of the side of humanity that princehood disallows.

Fact: tourney kinda does that too. It's the only rough-and-tumble outlet of seemingly the entire kingdom (which is why, of course, it's apparently forbidden to girls. I really wish the movies had pursued the blatant suckiness of Auradon).

Also, we can guess that personality!Ben actually likes tourney, or at least is sporty, bc I am 95% sure I saw some kind of exercise machine in his room in that tailoring scene.

So what we have here is someone who doesn't display much in the way of undesirable traits, save for tourney-related activities only, who obviously cares deeply for the kingdom, who the first thing he does as king is invite over four people with the very real power to destroy said kingdom.

And he doesn't even discuss it with his parents beforehand! Ben's kinda sus and probably the Impostor, is what I'm saying.

Also, the lineup of VKs is really weird. Like, it just so happens that they're all besties? And one of them is canonically the daughter of the most evil villain of all time? I'd bring over non-magical VKs to start with at least, preferably the ones with a more low-level villainy heritage - like Carlos! Carlos was a good choice for Auradon, but literally none of the others were. Maybe Lady Tremaine's granddaughter Dizzy - VKs who inherit interpersonal evil, not world-destroying evil, y'know.

So we have someone who knows the internal politics of the Isle of the Lost, who has an interest in toppling Auradon and installing Mal, who has nothing better to do until the third movie, and who is the most likely to have retained the modicum of magical powers necessary to control Ben and do small magics through him (transform the statue, influence his parents to allow the VKs, etc).

HADES IT'S HADES I KNOW IT'S HADES HADES IS A LITERAL GOD HE CAN'T BE FULLY DE-MAGICKED BY MORTALS HADES IS CONTROLLING BEN THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF MOVIES ONE AND TWO AND HE'S ORCHESTRATING EVERYTHING TO GET HIMSELF FREE.

Except! For during! Tourney! Because Ben is used to being limited as a prince so of course he wouldnt notice a little bit of mind control except! For the one place! Hes allowed to be a person! Which is tourney!

Which is why I didn't notice that sweetheart-who-helped-Carlos-out was also Ben! He's got a personality!

Therefore I posit that the Descendants franchise is actually a subtle meditation on manipulation and control, and the way that royalty and celebrity traps its favored few into a performance so absolute that they no longer recognize their own selves.

[serenagaywaterford]

6) a flip of the dime. The nasty parts were always there, but he concealed/controlled them. Maybe bc said parts wouldn't exactly make him endearing to others? Anyhow, your interpretation makes him quite the interesting antagonist/villain, so I'm rolling with it, lol. /// There was another thing that was bugging me about S2: the baby's name. Obviously, Serena chose Nic(h)ole as a "fuck you" to Fred. But June in the finale? Of course, she stuck to it for Nick's sake, but also bc she recognized

7) Serena’s selfless (well, if you can call it that) act. Thoughts on this? /// As for your older responses, I forgot to describe what an epiphany it was for me to realize the significance of Serena’s use of the word “rape” for the first time. The anger I felt after 2x10 blinded me to the VERY OBVIOUS connection between her realization in 2x10 and her outburst in 2x11. (Silly me!) Imagine how much more intense that fight would have been if they included the marital rape. I remember a writer

8) that June didn’t kill Serena, bc she actually felt sorry for her in that episode. (Ngl, June’s kindness baffles me at times.) I knew that she wasn’t gonna do it of course, but it was 50/50 whether I wanted her to shoot them or not. /// Something I have not addressed so far is how lukewarm I found their explanation for June getting away with all the shit she does. Well, she’s no Janine (who loses an eye) or Emily (who gets mutilated), but still. Like you said, Serena and Fred might get away

9) get away with a lot more bc of their privilege, but June? Hm. // I’ll start quoting later (or maaaybe tomorrow).

———–

I always thought that was a really weird sort of thing for June to do. And it seems to be entirely because of Serena? Like, it was Holly, Holly, Holly. Even when she was talking to Nick. Then she has the exchange with Serena, and suddenly she adopts Serena’s supreme dickmove of a babyname? 

And I LIKED Holly. It meant something. Nichole (I HATE THAT SPELLING SFM LMAO) means nothing to June? Can you imagine the convo: 

“Mommy, why am I called Nichole?”

“Well, baby, you see, your Daddy’s name is Nick, so the lady that stole you decided to name you after him to eternally piss off her husband who she clearly hates and wanted him to be reminded that he’s impotent every time he looks at you.”

Like, on the one hand, Serena is fucking brilliant and it just shows the extent of her hatred for Fred. But then it’s kinda shitty to use a child as a pawn in that.

Then again, maybe there’s another reason Serena chose that name? I know there’s like a whole history about St. Nicholas and his role as a patron saint of childless couples, or something. (I can’t recall exactly rn). And there was something about St. Nicolette and babies. (Which is where the names Nicole and Collette come from.) Something like she raised a dead baby back to life. So, I guess, at a stretch perhaps that was her inspiration? I doubt it, knowing Serena. LOL.

It’s really curious June’s decision though. Despite EVERYTHING Serena’s done, June just wipes it clean and names her fucking baby after Serena’s choice? Maybe she was trying to retain the memory of Nick for Nichole? I dunno. And not only that, but she seemed 100% genuine when she said that farewell blessing and held Serena’s hand (again). 

I dunno, June’s own preoccupation with Serena is something I don’t truly understand but she clearly thinks there’s some odd connection or something. It’s funny cos I was reading a review about S2 and June’s choices in the finale, and her constant support of Serena despite ALL the reasons not to, and lemme see if I can find it… 

 Nah. I can’t. Anyway, it was something about how we all know June’s going back for Hannah, but this writer thought June was also going back for Serena.

I’m not convinced about that tbh, but I can see the argument cos June is strangely protective and compassionate towards Serena considering. I just have a sinking feeling that the show is gonna play that “Oops, Serena is evil again!! SHE WAY MAD JUNE GIVE BABBY AWAY trolololol!!!!” and make her despicable in order to get Nicole back. If that is the case, I’m gonna roll my eyes right outta my head. I have no issue with Serena having regrets, tbh. I think that’s pretty understandable and expected. But having Serena go hogwild with abuse and using Fred’s power to get back at June or something is just going to fucking piss me off cos like, c’mon my dudes, been there, done that. Over and over already. It’s the 3rd season and either you’re gonna put this bitch on a mild redemption arc or you’re gonna make her a full-on villain. Make up your minds. The will-she, won’t-she thing is old by now.

I dunno that was a random OT rant.

Also, TRUTH! Serena’s use of the word “rape” was important. Like, part of me is like DUH how did you JUST figure that out?! And, honestly I feel like the marital rape is sort of necessary for Serena’s epiphany to get recognised. I think, Serena is just wilfully ignorant enough to not truly consider the Ceremony rape. I honestly do not think she totally understood what she was suggesting with the 2x10 rape. (Serena really does lack forethought for like…all of her actions. That’s sorta her whole problem.) I think she thought it would be just like a sort of unsanctioned ceremony. But by the end she did seem to recognise what it truly was. And having her raped by Fred in the previous episode would have really helped with that. (Then again, it’s really hard to understand how a woman who was just raped turns around and basically suggests it. And this person is supposed to be not Satan. A pure evil woman sure. But Serena’s not meant to be that.)

I think Yvonne’s delivery of the line was interesting too. Part of it was like, “HOly shit it was rape” and part of it was like, “ha! you’re a monster!! you did that!” Like she had no culpability in it. I want to know if Serena has realised that ALL ceremonies are RAPE yet. I wonder if she’s got there. I’m not totally convinced she has. But… I dunno.

Oh! I hadn’t read that about June’s reasoning! That’s interesting. I mean, it fits with June overall but it’s a very odd thing. Like, to be holding a gun trained on the couple that literally held you down and raped you not 24 hours earlier… and feel SORRY for the woman (whereas the general population’s consensus is that Serena is even worse than Fred for doing that to another woman)? I went and watched it after reading your message I didn’t really see that on June’s face. (But that’s really neither here nor there since editing, directing, etc. all differs from what the writers/showrunners had in mind and those are the guys doing the interviews!)  I take that back! I watched it again and I can deffo see that if that’s what they were going for. Totally missed it and likely wouldn’t have picked up on it if not for this convo.

That said, I totally see June reasoning it out that way. For some strange reason, whether it’s Stockholm Syndrome or whatever, June seems to have a blindspot/softspot for Serena and she seems to have unlimited Get Out Of Jail Free cards for her. Like, c’mon, she literally held her down to be brutally raped, and at this point it seems like Serena could murder June and June’s ghost would just be like, “Hey youuuuu, wanna be my bestie in overthrowing the patriarchy?” (Okay, I’m not at all complaining cos I love their dynamic and I ship them soooooo… lol. On a personal level, it works very well for me and my crackshippy fantasies. I choose to believe June honestly sees something nobody else does and believes in Serena’s capacity for redemption–WHICH IS INSANE. But hey. I love it.)

So, for June to feel sorry for Serena, even after everything really does fit when you think about it. And also when you think about book!June’s attitude towards true power being in forgiveness.

I remember sitting around watching the ep the first time and thinking “I don’t want June to shoot them and be a killer” but also, “WHY ISN’T SHE SHOOTING THE FUCKING PLACE UP! DOES SHE NOT WANT TO ESCAPE????” And I was sitting there with the wifey and she was like, “She can’t. What if she misses? Then you’ve got 2 incredibly angry people chasing you.” And I was like… “Uh. Reload? Shoot them as they’re coming up the stairs.”

Because I have never fired a gun in my life so to me it seems really easy lmao. But to me, I didn’t even care about her shooting Serena but I did have an inkling she didn’t want to shoot Serena with the amount she paused. That would have been a perfect shot with teh type of ammo to take out –or at least injure– two people at once. I was like, “You gotta kill Fred and Serena is pretty useless then. It’s not like they have mobile phones! You can then choose to leave Serena to die there lol, or hostage her. And steal the car. You could get pretty far since nobody knows that Fred/Serena are even there.” To me, rationally, it didnt’ make sense not to shoot them. But… emotionally, obvs, I knew she wouldn’t cos a)the series would like… end rather abruptly lol, and b) that’s just not June.

AND yeah, June getting away with all her bullshit is insane in comparison. Janine literally lost an eye for backtalking once at the Red Centre! June has, well, done so much more and just kind skates away from ALL serious punishment. (Well, living with Fred and Serena is a pretty awful punishment in general.) And, sure part of it was cos she was preggers but … how Aunt Lydia/Fred/Serena/TPTB trust this crazy Handmaid not to KEEP breaking the rules is insane. I feel like nobody would trust her to just be a docile little thing after running away for 92 days. Not even Pervy Freddo. Despite all his creeptastic fetishes, he’d be like, “OMG she is way too high maintenance. i just don’t have the patience. give me that baby so i can shut my annoying wife up and then get me another more docile babyslave to play Scrabble and shave!” The plot armour is strong in this one!

Anyway! I got a bit carried away there…