#I'm equally as unwell as the OP

[lynyangell]

ALSO my own two cenz here

Roy's naïve dreams and thoughts about the military are almost definitely what convinced Riza to join. So he feels just as responsible for every person she has shot with her rifle as he does for those he has killed with his flames.

What makes me insane about royai is that Roy and Riza worked well even before their backstory was revealed.

Two soldiers who fought together in a war, who protect each other, and who are devoted to each other and to a common cause. That works, right? That was enough.

But then. Then.

Then it turns out that they actually knew each other long before Ishval. They knew each other when Hawkeye was just Riza and Roy just her father's apprentice. It turns out that they are not only bound by their job or their cause or the mutual esteem and respect, nor even just by the shared trauma of war. It turns out that Riza is literally the person who put the flame alchemy in Roy's hands. That the alchemical circles on his gloves are tattooed on her skin. That it was Riza who gave him that power and for that she feels just as responsible for every person he has killed with his flames as she does for those she has shot with her rifle. And the reason she did it is because she trusted him and she trusted his naive dreams. And when the war is over he is well aware that he has broken her trust and that is the reason why he agrees to burn her back and trusting her his own back in return, thus explicitly giving her the power to stab him in the back.

And yet she decides to stand by him, despite the fact that he has already disappointed her once, because she has not stopped believing in those dreams he confided in her when they were still two naive kids untouched by the sins of war.

And while it is true that she stays by his side because she, too, wants to seek some sort of atonement and seek justice for the horrors they both committed, it is also true that, by her own admission, the reason she still wears a uniform and is ready to pull the trigger is that she wants to protect him.

[passthroughtime]

OP says to correct them if they're wrong, so i'd take them up on that offer, because there are some things regarding canon material that's just not true. i'm sure OP's expertise in japanese culture is way better than mine, so this isn't what i'm talking about here. and: i'm referring to the japanese's audio's subtitles/translation: the english audio's different, and i haven't watched a lot of cutscenes with eng voiceover to be talking about this translation with certainty.

so.

the part about yagami:

However, there is one occassion when Kuwana uses an honorific with Yagami, and it's in Chapter 9. He says: "I'm sorry, Yagami-san" when leaving Yagami to fight RK alone. This was a rare sign of respect from Kuwana given to Yagami: I believe in part because Yagami showed that he believed in fighting for Kuwana - even if he was not given the context as to why RK was after him. Also, Yagami was fighting to defend Sawa - someone Kuwana deeply cares about. Correct me if I'm wrong and I will edit the post, but I believe that's the only time Kuwana uses any honorific with Yagami. Better -san then -kun. Even though Yagami is younger, they're not very close, so it would be inappropriate for Kuwana to ever use -kun with him.

so, here comes the nitpicking (yeah i'm calling it by its name)

Chapter 9 the described here didn't happen in chapter 9 "The Weight of Guilt", because sawa is already dead by that chapter. the correct chapter number is 7, "Blindsided". (you can already start hating my guts now)

2. "I'm sorry, Yagami-san" it was "Sorry, Yagami-kun". this one has been bothering me as well for a long time tbh (OTP reasons). the audio is awful during this scene (the music overlaps any other noise), so i went and replayed this part turning the music and the cutscene sounds entirely, because i'm normal and this is a normal thing to do. here's the vid

3. that's the only time Kuwana uses any honorific with Yagami i still could've missed some moments, but more than that comes to mind. №1, kuwana's second scene before the attack on yokohama 99 (chapter 4, "Red Knife"), №2, kuwana talking with akaike during the boat scene (chapter 12, "To Nourish a Viper"), №3, him talking with mamiya (at yagami's office after talking about his past, chapter 9, "The Weight Of Guilt"). (and he does use -san there, interestingly!)

the part about kaito:

Much shorter than above. Kuwana uses -san with Kaito because he respects him. Dropping honorifics with Kaito would be unecessarily disrespectful. But he also uses Kaito's first name (like everyone else) because they're friendly with each other.

the nitpicking:

Kuwana uses -san with Kaito that's gonna be more of a "trust me bro" because i'm not going to dig out every instance of kuwana calling kaito by his name, i'm not that unwell. here's the couple of examples anyway: kuwana talking with kaito directly (at yokohama 99 before the Liumang attack, chapter 4, "Red Knife"), and referring to kaito in his conversation with yagami (at yagami's office after mamiya's kidnapping, chapter 9, "The Weight Of Guilt")

2. uses Kaito's first name (like everyone else) kaito is his surname. here's his introduction in LJ, with yagami's one just to show that the localization team did us all dirty, westernizing the japanese naming order :( (waiting for kosuke-kun (the cheating boyfriend with gambling addiction) in a van, chapter 1, "Black Sheep")

the part about sawa, mamiya and former kurokawa students:

I talked a little bit about this in my other post, but he uses -kun with them. Using -kun with adult women is a formality. It's the same reason why Yagami uses -kun with Saori. It's a bit... old fashioned I think? There's an implication that, even though I'm using a formality with you, we aren't totally equals. It's natural he would use this for his former adult students, I think. Notably, Akaike is referred to with -san once (unlike Mitsuru, who is referred to with -kun) and Kawai's honorifics are totally dropped, probably because he is dead and Kuwana has no intention of humanizing him. Reiko does this as well!

the nitpicking:

It's the same reason why Yagami uses -kun with Saori. yagami refers to saori with -san exclusively (just as only using her first name). sorry that i don't bring here lots of instances of him referring to her (and also, no examples from the first game), but here's one (at genda law office, talking about akutsu meeting popular girls from cabaret clubs, chapter 11, "Undercover")

though i must say, we have actually someone else who refers to her with -kun: genda! (the same scene as above)

and from all i'm getting, genda-and-saori and kuwana-and-mamiya/sawa relationships are uhh similar? kind of? just by The Vibes?

2. Notably, Akaike is referred to with -san i can't say that i know for certain how every scene where kuwana talks with/about akaike goes, but i have two examples showing that he drops honorifics with him as well, with the first one being mentioned earlier in this post (during the start ot the boat scene, chapter 12, "To Nourish a Viper"). another one is from the scene following catching kuwana during the chase sequence (chapter 9, "The Weight Of Guilt")

uhhh that's all if i'm not wrong

THAT ALL BEING SAID: i'd be really excited to read a revised version of this post!

the usage of names is a dear theme to me, and i'd like to know more, as JE and LJ both are great at portraying the relationships characters have through this only. just, with more referral to canon material if that's possible. thank you <3

A simple guide to how Kuwana uses honorifics - Lost Judgement

Not really an addendum but it seemed like a few people were interested in me expanding on how Kuwana speaks and refers to others. Thanks for reading!

I'll add my own interpretations as well, but Japanese is a context-heavy and nuanced language so don't take this as fact - rather just me building off what I already know about Japanese [culture] (I live here!) as well as my own idea on what type of character Kuwana is. Actually, I think Kuwana is strangely polite - all things considered - so the way he refers to other people is mostly unsurprising.

You can see a previous analysis on how he refers to Mitsuru here. He will not be included in this post.

with Yagami

Perhaps the one people are most interested in. Both Yagami and Kuwana drop honorifics with each other entirely. A cursory glance at Wikipedia may tell you that this is only used for people with close relationships or for inferiors (fittlingly, like a teacher with their student) but in this case, it is neither of those things.

They drop honorifics with each other, simply, because they do not respect each other. When Kuwana isn't referring to Yagami by name (very often), he is using 「お前」 which is a very forward, rude way to refer to someone. When someone uses 「お前」 with you, it often implies they are angry with you.

However, there is one occassion when Kuwana uses an honorific with Yagami, and it's in Chapter 9. He says: "I'm sorry, Yagami-san" when leaving Yagami to fight RK alone. This was a rare sign of respect from Kuwana given to Yagami: I believe in part because Yagami showed that he believed in fighting for Kuwana - even if he was not given the context as to why RK was after him. Also, Yagami was fighting to defend Sawa - someone Kuwana deeply cares about.

Correct me if I'm wrong and I will edit the post, but I believe that's the only time Kuwana uses any honorific with Yagami. Better -san then -kun. Even though Yagami is younger, they're not very close, so it would be inappropriate for Kuwana to ever use -kun with him.

with Kaito

Much shorter than above. Kuwana uses -san with Kaito because he respects him. Dropping honorifics with Kaito would be unecessarily disrespectful. But he also uses Kaito's first name (like everyone else) because they're friendly with each other.

with Y99

Kuwana uses -kun with both Sugiura and Tsukumo. Sugiura even refers to Kuwana as their "senpai" since they do similar work in the same area - this is a joke, though. Grown men do not normally refer to each other as senpai - Sugiura and Tsukumo are both younger than Mitsuru, so it's hard to believe Kuwana would honestly see them as real adults.

with Sawa and Mamiya + a bit about former Kurokawa students

I talked a little bit about this in my other post, but he uses -kun with them. Using -kun with adult women is a formality. It's the same reason why Yagami uses -kun with Saori. It's a bit... old fashioned I think? There's an implication that, even though I'm using a formality with you, we aren't totally equals. It's natural he would use this for his former adult students, I think. Notably, Akaike is referred to with -san once (unlike Mitsuru, who is referred to with -kun) and Kawai's honorifics are totally dropped, probably because he is dead and Kuwana has no intention of humanizing him. Reiko does this as well!

with Kusumoto Reiko

Kuwana is a Kusumoto-san bot almost as much as Yagami is with Sawa-sensei. Since she is older and their relationship is a bit strained and distant, Kuwana uses her last name and -san. Reiko returns the formality in an interesting way, referring to him directly as "Kitakata-sensei" because that is how she knows him as. However, during the emotional climax, she refers to him as "Sensei", which is sort of an endearing formality that indicates respect and ...love? Not necessarily romantic, but a certain fondness or gratitude - as normally, students would refer to their teacher as "Sensei", not necessarily student's parents or their fellow coworkers. (I do have one older female teacher who calls everyone else just "Sensei" and it makes me blush, lol) I know that's less about how Kuwana refers to her but I think their relationship is not as stiff as it may seem based on what honorifics they use with each other.

That's all I have. Thanks for reading! Did I forget anyone? If there is someone else you'd like me to cover, or an analyses you want to see more of, feel free to shoot me a message or anon as a request.

By the way, if you're interested in my other interpretations or iterations of Kuwana and co, check out my AO3 (shameless plug)(shameless plug) I use my analyses you see on this account to inform dialogue and character motivation.

Okay bye!

[antis-delete-your-blogs-pls-thx]

Just to clear my name here as a "weirdo who instigates arguments on random posts", I replied to your comment on that thread because I am the OP and receive notifications whenever someone makes an addition.

Anyway. Forgive me for not writing an equally in-depth reply in parts, I'm currently in bed feeling pretty unwell, so my spoons are rapidly disappearing.

I think that the response to innocent-intentioned fandom criticism does overwhelmingly make people cry "anti" where none exist. I'm not disputing that, and I think that it's a mess and muddies the waters for actual critique that can make people both better readers and better writers.

But I think it mainly comes from paranoia. Not that anyone has ever been too fabulous about accepting critique, but fandom just six years ago was much more receptive to discussing media critically. It was when critique as a medium changed platforms from editorials to Twitter and Tumblr feeds that I think everything, for lack of a better term, went to shit. Creators and staff and dedicated fans are more accessible than ever before, and you can find their whole life story with a few clicks. Shit gets personal. And people started making it personal.

I'm reminded of the famous "Steven Universe is Garbage and Here's Why" video. Critique of Steven Universe itself as a cartoon is valid. It has the art style consistency of a toddler's doodles sometimes, its airing schedule was frankly laughable, and there was more filler than a stuffed turkey, and this is coming from someone who loves the show. But that video perfectly reflects a trend that's shown up more and more in recent years: attack the creator and not the work. I don't think of Rebecca Sugar personally as any less of a person for having a show that's stellar on some occasions and like grinding your teeth on concrete on others. I don't think she's a bad human being for writing in a few problematic elements that don't really get handled fantastically. But that critique does. It calls her a borderline Nazi apologist. For, funny enough, advocating pacifism on a show for 12yos (who are still susceptible to media influence). And she's a Jewish nonbinary person. Hardly the type of person who you're going to find holding a tiki torch. See what I mean about the normalisation of violence in media and personal attacks on creators?

So, yeah. The people who refuse to listen to any media criticism are wrong, and not doing themselves any favours. And the people who have outright said horrible things to you are no better than the antis any of them claim to be against. But the reasons behind a lot of their shitty behaviour are more from provocation than random chance. The reading in personal attacks, insults, and harassment doesn't just come from having a particularly sensitive and defensive disposition, it comes from direct experience.

And I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry that media criticism has been fucked over to the point where everyone gets labeled an anti. But maybe if antis hadn't have started their platform on treating people like shit, we'd have more people with an actually nuanced view of the difference between critique and personal attack. Because antis love to coat their rhetoric in dogwhistles, and a lot of the people saying "Sheith actually depicts a relationship that has unhealthy power dynamics, and I worry this has bad effects on the youth who would enjoy content of this relationship" are also saying "and Sheith shippers should get their eyes scooped out" elsewhere. I'm not making that up. I had an anti directly tell me that they only wanted to do media criticism of harmful tropes, and when I went to their blog to reblog the post in question, three posts below they were saying people who ship step-siblings should die. You can't play both sides of the coin, but they try to constantly, and it feels a little bit like going fucking insane every time I see it. Why the hell should I trust the words that come out of the mouths of people wanting to tell us to burn in a concentration camp (also a real experience) equally as often as they come from the mouths of those with genuine concerns?

Like, I'm not saying you should join in the anti-anti crusade or whatever you think we're doing here. I'm just painting the picture of mistrust and, yes, legitimately shitty behaviour that has come from years of systematic abuse. And that's what antis (actual antis) do. Abuse. Spreading misinformation with the intent to manipulate, gaslighting by coating rhetoric in dogwhistles and threatening others behind closed doors, shaming young and vulnerable people, doxxing and harassing people away from their support networks and careers? That's abuse. Telling people all the ways you want them to die in graphic detail? Abusive. Bullying people? Mocking people? Calling them clowns? Attacking their appearance and their identity? (All of these I have receipts for, mind you.) Abuse. Just because it's online, it doesn't mean it's not abusive behaviour. Purposefully triggering people, stalking them, sending threats to their friends and family members, speculating on their masturbatory habits or what trauma they must have went through? Harassment and abuse. Slandering people? Calling CSA survivors as bad as their abusers and falsely accusing them of pedophilia? Abuse. And illegal in a lot of places. Specifically going after clearly mentally ill people and telling them to commit suicide? Illegal. And often prosecuted. Because it is ABUSE. And expecting this site as a whole to react well to further abuse is just not realistic.

People are shitty because people are shitty to them. The only way to break the cycle is to stop being shitty. But I really doubt that's going to happen on this hellsite. So I blabber into this void, and you repeat yourself ad nauseum for five years, and nothing fucking changes.

Anyway. I'm sure you'll want to shake me by the shoulders for saying this, but if you want people who listen to criticism of media, and who call hypocritical anti-antis out, you could check out some of the people I reblog from. Korrasera does some amazing media criticism while still maintaining pro ship positions. I can point out the posts calling out other anti-antis on bad behaviour. I can point out posts where people have told me I was being a snappish dickwad, and I'm pretty well-known as a blog by now, which often deters criticism in communities where everyone fears the other for being an asshole.

You've had bad experiences with anti-antis. My blog can't erase your past with those people. But I can at least shed some light onto why people act like rabid dogs on this website, especially when it comes to ship criticism.

Points get recycled and regurgitated because actually finding people willing to listen is rare. You know that. I know that. I'm not going to act like any of this makes any particular difference. You'll probably still get called a puritan and censorship enabler. I'll still get told I deserved my abuse and that I'm as bad as my abuser. This hellsite doesn't get better.

I don’t want censorship. I don’t condone censorship. I don’t defend censorship. I don’t advocate censorship. 

I LITERALLY NEVER FUCKING TALK ABOUT CENSORSHIP EXCEPT TO TELL PEOPLE NO I’M NOT IN FAVOR OF CENSORSHIP SO CAN YOU PLEASE STOP ARGUING WITH ME ABOUT CENSORSHIP THAT I NEVER PROPOSED AND DON’T SUPPORT BECAUSE THAT’S LITERALLY NOT EVEN IN THE SAME ZIP CODE AS THE POINT I AM ALWAYS TRYING TO MAKE.

How fucking hard is it for the people who have the most to say about my opinions on toxic ships/fics, to actually READ one of those opinions once and grasp that I am not, have never been, and never WILL be for CENSORSHIP, the idea of telling people what they can and can’t write.

My only stance has ALWAYS been if you can’t write something without feeling you have to twist facts and talk over survivors and convince everyone that your writing has NO effect or influence whatsoever, in order to not feel bad or guilty or ashamed and defensive for writing it……like that should tell you something, and you should maybe take five seconds away from writing more of it to reflect on why the fuck its so important to you to convince everyone that what you’re doing is fine and harmless and they’re just completely delusional for thinking narratives can make an impression on people.

That’s not censorship. That’s not telling you that you CAN’T write something, its telling you that its not okay to wrap yourself in a fake bubble and pretend nothing you do matters or affects anyone else, just so you can continue writing something you maybe feel like you shouldn’t be writing, deep down inside already.

Asking people to THINK about the content they write, is not equivalent to banning that content, or even suggesting people ban that content. BECAUSE BANS DON’T DO ANY FUCKING GOOD. I AM IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH EVERY ANTI-CENSORSHIP ARGUMENT ON THIS MATTER EVER, WHICH BIZARRELY MIGHT BE BECAUSE I AM IN FACT, ANTI-CENSORSHIP.

If the only reason people DON’T write certain things is because they can’t get away with it or they’re afraid they’ll be punished for it or whatever, that doesn’t solve ANYTHING. It doesn’t address the why of what draws them to write such content in the first place, and it doesn’t instill them with any greater awareness of how their content affects other people.

ITS KINDA LIKE HOW YEAH WE HAVE LAWS AGAINST MURDER BUT WE DON’T LET THAT STOP US FROM ALSO TELLING PEOPLE HEY MURDER IS BAD AND HERE’S WHY YOU SHOULD THINK SO TOO.

And unlike with murder, which isn’t something that generally cultivates actual supporters and communities with it being the source and heart of it (Manson groupies and murder cults not included), all banning things that society considers ‘taboo’ and people are already prone to justifying in past precedents - like alcohol in prohibition or inflammatory or revolutionary or controversial creative content - all banning or censoring THAT kinda thing does is give people who already have a sense of community, organization, that now has been taken away from them, that makes them feel or be aware they’ve actively LOST something….now it gives them something to push back against, while drawing support due to their status as underdogs, because who doesn’t like a good David kicks Goliath’s ass feel-good story at the end of the day, am I right? Thus ensuring that at some point, in some way, they’ll still end up writing and producing the same content just in some other form or medium or venue.

Asking people to THINK about the EFFECTS their writing might have on other people is not bullying or harassing people in instances where there’s zero actual harassment or threatening going on, when its actually more just that they’re saying things that make you FEEL BAD and you don’t like that and want them to just cut it out, just stop it, waaah. 

(And no, there’s not a one to one correlation between writing and reading. I am not saying that writing something guarantees causation, like just because someone reads something doesn’t mean they’re going to replicate that scene in real life, no fucking doi, but its not ZERO affect or COMPLETELY FOLLOWING A SCRIPT, like just two fucking opposite extremes are the only options here, with no middle ground whatsoever. The fact that writing a story doesn’t make you a nefarious puppet master pulling the strings of whatever mindless reader you suckered into reading your fic and falling under its hypnotic spell, now yours to command -  like….that doesn’t mean stories never have ANY effect on readers whatsoever. That they can’t inspire related thoughts, they can’t normalize questionable behavior, they can’t give someone a justification to do or say or believe something they were already on the fence about, that they can’t help connect people who seek out certain stories because they’re actually fucking predatory people and these kinds of fantasies are absolutely their wank material, and here, have a whole community of people to go along with that story, all talking up how hot that is, asking for more, sharing similar thoughts or stories….nah, its absolutely INCONCEIVABLE how that sort of thing could have any affect whatsoever, on human behavior, on the choices people make, the confidence that determines whether or not they feel ballsy or at least safe enough to act on certain impulses….

Nah, you’re absolutely right. NONE OF THAT can EVER result from the producing and proliferation of certain content. Nope, nope, nope, people who produce this content only do so after toggling on the safety switch that ensures that they have now entered the NO CONSEQUENCES ZONE, in which it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for any action they make - you know, like ACTIVELY writing a story, ACTIVELY distributing it, ACTIVELY seeking out more, ACTIVELY sharing ideas, ACTIVELY encouraging someone else to write their own or being encouraged to write more of the same, ACTIVELY forming bonds and friendships and community on the basis of specific content appealing to them as being sexually gratifying….

Yeah, once safely in the NO CONSEQUENCES ZONE, any action a writer takes inside the zone is completely unlike every other action normally is. Any action now magically has ZERO ability to cause a REaction or have an effect or influence on someone else or y’know. A consequence of any kind.

ALL I HAVE EVER SAID IS IF YOU HAVE TO GO SO FUCKING FAR DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE OF CONVINCING YOURSELF ALL OF THAT IS TRUE IN ORDER TO FEEL COMFORTABLE AND JUSTIFIED IN WRITING AND READING AND SHARING THE SPECIFIC CONTENT YOU’RE DEFENDING SO GODDAMN HARD….

Maybe you should buy yourself a fucking clue, Nancy Drew, because something in YOUR subconscious is probably banging on the walls trying REALLY damn hard to get your attention at that point, even though most of you just REACT to that by raising your voices and yelling even louder at all those sneaky, insidious antis that got inside your head somehow and convinced that little voice downstairs to start acting up and raising a fuss.

FUCK.

CENSORSHIP.

I hate it. I’m not for it. I don’t want it.

You know what I want?

ALL I really want?

CREATORS THINKING MORE CRITICALLY ABOUT WHAT THEY WRITE AND WHY, AND MAKING MORE CREATIVE CHOICES THAT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT CREATIVE WORK HAS IMPACT, IT AFFECTS AND SHAPES CULTURE, SOCIETY, TRENDS, AND MUCH MUCH MORE. IT PERPETUATES AND ENABLES AND FALSELY VALIDATES ALREADY HELD RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC AND MISOGYNISTIC BELIEFS. ETC ETC AD NAUSEAM. 

ALL CREATIVE WORK HAS POWER. 

AND POWER THAT’S USED WITHOUT CONCERN FOR ITS POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES SHOULD ALWAYS. 

DRAW. 

CRITICISM.

That’s it. That’s the whole fucking sermon. That’s all I have EVER fucking been saying on this blog on the subject of writing racist and homophobic and transphobic shit and shipping incest, pedophilia, rape and similar stuff.

The fucking end.