#I love subtle moments with Cartman's character

[cudddlecat]

I was watching the obesity special and I realised Cartman tried to grab Kenny before he got thrown out of the car.

[wendytestabrat]

Should Kyman be canonized or just kept the way things are with their weird relationship? XD

ok this is a rlly good question. i personally would love to see it canon bc i have absolutely no life and i ship two animated 4th graders together but i acknowledge the fact that the majority of south park fans don’t give a shit abt ships and only watch the show for the comedy LOL. so yeah i can see how them making kyman canon would piss off A LOT of people or ruin the show for them (and canonizing pretty much any ship between the four boys) so if it doesn’t happen it’s not the end of the world for me. however, i do feel like there are some things they could do to make kyman happen that would be satisfying for ALL the fans so it won’t seem like something that comes completely out of nowhere. first of all south park is a COMEDY and i’ve talked abt betore how kyman works 100x better than any other fanon ship bc it’s funny af and works with the tone of the show. so yeah they would rlly have to crank up the comedy on it to the max so it’s not something that’s taken too seriously. i mean i do feel they should give us serious moments of C&K here and there to show some character growth and development between the two characters and their bond, but yeah the primary focus of a sitcom is to be funny with only occasional serious/emotional moments here and there. BUT ALSO i feel like matt & trey would need to amp up the obviousness in the hints we’re getting. even tho the kyman shit seems rlly obvious to the testies bc we’ve overly dissected it, i feel like most people don’t notice this shit bc the hints are so damn subtle lol. even tho there are some people who have said that people they know irl who are just casual viewers notice the kyman shit but i feel like the majority of people don’t care and aren’t looking too much into it. bc yeah if matt & trey make it more clear that kyman is a thing and cartman and kyle like each other and continue giving us hints and foreshadowing, except this time they make it more noticeable among casual fans, then i feel like more people might root for it and it’ll feel earned when it does happen. i feel like it would need to be more like the gay hints abt stewie in family guy which are soooo obvious to literally everyone it’s just a known canon fact at this point that stewie is gay LOL (and there’s even compilations on youtube of it). however, the gay shit with cartman is def more debatable and more subtle so a lot of people don’t notice or care. so yeah i think if they’re rlly serious abt making kyman canon matt & trey need to stop pussying around and make it a little more clear and tackle it head on. the show def has done a good job developing their relationship throughout the years and the ship gets more and more intense each season, so yeah all they need to do is keep up the good work with that while sprinkling in a little more gayness and cranking up the obviousness and intensity of their romantic tension.

[mccormicks69thfan]

AU Posting: Poke-Hybrids

I literally made this AU to smash my two hyper-fixations together.

If there's any Pokemon you would like to suggest in slots where I am unsure of, lmk!! Especially for characters I have no ideas for (You'll be able to tell if I have nothing for them, they have ???).

Stan - Drizzile (…I couldn't resist, man.)

Kyle - Grovyle (…I mean. Who else was I gonna pick?? This one is the ONLY one that fits Kyle in my eyes! Both Stan and Cartman are jealous that he'll be able to one day Mega Evolve, which Kyle tries to ignore.)

Cartman - Pignite (Of course he's one of the fire fighting types. I only chose the Tepig line because of obvious reasons. And because I wanted 3/4 of the main boys to be from Starter lines!)

Kenny - Mismagius (Only got fully evolved b/c he ate a dusk stone at some point. Refuses to answer where he found that dusk stone though, and why he would fucking eat it.)

Butters - Togetic (Not fully evolved yet, but wants to be! He was inspired by Kenny's story, and is often found digging in South Park, just desperately looking for a Dawn Stone.)

Craig - Elgyem (…Is making Craig an alien common in some AUs…?)

Clyde - ???

Tolkien/Token - Zweilos (How these hybrids work in this AU is that there's only a rare chance for a second head to grow. He was lucky to not have that happen. Loves Nicole and supports her decision not to be like other Salazzle's.)

Tweek - Sinistea (Is more of a Ghost Ground type, being a coffee based version from this region. Get it? Because coffee grounds? …I'll see myself out.)

Jimmy - ???

Timmy - Duosion (In this AU, some hybrids evolve earlier than others. And some have subtle appearance changes. Literally only his hair changed texture, and he gained psychic powers. He's going about strengthening his mind more so he can evolve again and achieve better mobility. He always speaks with his mind, and at this point… to his friend Jimmy it just seems like he's finding an easy way out.)

Wendy - Kirlia (I mean… I had to.)

Bebe - Steenee (Wants to evolve so she can kick ass.)

Heidi - Liligant (I couldn't resist. :3)

Red - Froslass (Got lucky with Stone Searching. Found extra Dawn Stones but refuses to share with anyone. Not even Butters.)

Nicole - Salazzle (Hates her species. Gets into fights constantly with other Salazzle hybrids because she isn't getting a harem. She refuses to. In love with Tolkien. <3)

Scott M. - Combee (As he is male, he will never evolve. But he's fine with it! Who needs to evolve when just being a hybrid as is makes you 'cool'?)

Dougie - Rotom (I had to. Don't ask me why. If you have a better Pokemon to mix Dougie with, lmk.)

Mike - Gliscor (A fake bat hybird. That is NOT a bat!! Well, kind of. He only says he's a bat until people end up pointing out the other thing his kind are based on. Which are scorpionflies.)

Pete - Houndour (Not fully evolved yet, and doesn't look forward to it. He doesn't want to look super intimidating…)

Michael - Absol (Stays away from everyone that isn't his friends, because everyone else sees him as a bad omen. I wonder why…)

Henrietta - Gothorita (At least she isn't an overly girly Pokemon like some of the other girls.)

Firkle - Rookidee (Because steel bird. That's all. …He isn't one yet, but he wants to be.)

Extras: Non-canon to the AU at the current moment, including OC's (uh… OC's will never be canon obviously). You are free to draw them though, I welcome it.

Philip - Greavard (..I was gonna make him Lillipup, but then I remembered he was dead. So I made him Greavard, as he died before he could grow in his hybrid features. Still jolly and cheerful, and literally unaware he drains energy from the living.)

Damien - Morgrem (Need I say more?)

Gregory - Doublade (Sassy hero? Yes please. May not actually be Gregory talking, but the spirit in the swords he has.)

Christophe - Excadrill (Get it because he's called the mole?? No but seriously, this Pokemon just SCREAMED Christophe.)

Pocket - Lopunny (I didn't want to make him a Diggersby or a Raboot. I also find it personally funny, and no I won't say why.)

Estella - Primarina (Her mom overfed her Rare Candies to make her as beautiful as possible early on. This has made her jaded and hate her mom in secret.)

Gary - Wooloo (Unless anyone else has any better ideas.)

Scott T. - Zoruark (If anyone has any better ideas, lmk. I personally don't like to think about Tennorman that much…)

Leslie - Iron Moth (Not of this time period. Nobody knows where she came from, if she ever even came from here to begin with.)

Terrance - Slither Wing (Not of this time period either. Was brought back to life using the DNA found in the amber from ancient times. Thought originally to be from Aerodactyl, it instead turned out to be a past version of Volcarona.)

Angela - Indeedee (The female Indeedee, not the male one.)

Ebony - Cufant (I couldn't resist. :D)

Hannah - Crobat (Actually a bat Pokemon! I was saving Crobat for her. But like I said up there, the OC's aren't canon.)

Kasumi/Camilla - Alcremie (Because I didn't want overlapping species.)

Niya - Skiddo (I mean, her last name writes itself.)

Ruby - Liepard (Don't trust her cute looks. That's how she steals stuff from people.)

Skyla - Rowlett (Because owl. I do know owls will be important to Skyla's super hero persona, that's for sure.)

Cassandra - Murkrow (Wanted to keep Skyla and Cassandra related somehow.)

[basketballandtextbooks]

Bat how do you feel after watching the special

There are multiple levels to my thoughts.

On a satire level, they bungled a lot of the information. They were trying to take an “all sides are stupid stance” on an issue where people are dying daily and there are actual medical reasons for one stance to be factually incorrect so taking an “all sides” stance is... fucking tone deaf. To be fair to them, I enjoyed the amount of meta that informed their episode about knowing that their episode was doing more harm than good and using Randy as a tool for that particular satire was a smart and effective mood. That said, it was a mixed message that promoted a lot of misinformation. While the meta parts were funny, lamp-shading how poor your satire is doesn’t actually make your satire good. It just means you’re lamp-shading the issue. It was disappointing because I had hoped for better as they frequently write good satire. Stan’s character journey was the only cohesive one throughout the episode and while it was a good one, there was so much of the episode that was tone deaf to the severity of this issue. While I think it’s valid to bring levity to the issue and I was hoping they would, they missed the mark by a long-shot. That said, they usually don’t do well with medical issues. The last time they bungled their satire this badly was the vaccination episode. And they infamously bungle literally every trans-related episode. There were aspects of the episode that were poignant, well thought out, and well executed, but the majority was an under-researched in-cohesive mess. Which to some extent I think that’s what they were aiming for because they view the pandemic as an in-cohesive mess. The issue is that one of the reasons that pandemic is such a pervasive issue (especially in the states) is the mass spread of misinformation so when they spread misinformation to criticize the spread of misinformation... it’s just stupid.

However on a character level I very much enjoyed the episode. It was yet another Randy focused episode and as I’ve expressed on a few occasions I just don’t find him funny. Oh no, he jizzed on the weed, that’s sooooo surprising. Honestly Randy is a very one-note character. He does something horrifying, people are horrified, he faces no consequences, rinse, repeat. That all established, I think it’s important character information that he cheated on Sharon twice in China with no guilt whatsoever. He only wanted to hide his crime because “my wife is a bitch”. Also considering he cheated with non-human entities, I think this is strong proof of Rowelie’s viability so take that as you will Rowelie shippers. Also the fact that people grow Randy mustache’s if they ingest his cum and Sharon had a mustache at the end... I sort of hate that Randy took that as proof that she smoked his weed. Now, even if she had smoked it his behavior still is completely and disgustingly inexcusable but also... everyone in South Park is openly smoking so she could have very easily gotten second hand Randy-stache. Or just given her husband a blow job. Also it’s interesting information that within universe Randy’s cum has mutagenic properties. Again for the Rowelie shippers: you could use this as an excuse as to how Towelie turns into a human, Randy’s cum mutated him. Also I think it’s likely that microwaving his balls could be what caused his radioactive jizz. Or one of the times he was experimented on by aliens. Or both. Altogether Randy was a repulsive bastard within the episode who I find boring at best BUT the amount of meta information that he introduced will be very useful to inform my theories. (Also again, the fact that he so easily and guilelessly cheats on Sharon tells me that he that he has done it a multitude of times. My theory is that after he gave Gerald a handy in the hot-tub and was forgiven he just never stopped, basically assuming the permission to do it once was broad permission to do it forever) (oh and second note: this is the second time within canon that Randy has poisoned people’s weed so uh... that’s fucked up)

Freaked out a lot about Jimbo dying, I’m really scared they’ll kill Jimbo but also since they already killed Ned I wonder if the two of them can be happy in the afterlife together because no one can convince me that Jimbo and Ned aren’t canon. Also Randy’s blatant racism and lack of empathy for Jimbo’s illness was really yikes. I dunno guys, I’ve always had a soft spot for Jimbo. He’s a stupid stereotypical red-neck but he had a sort of charm to him and I thought he was funny. I miss when him and Ned were regulars on the show.

CARTMAN DANCING AND SINGING WAS ACTUALLY THE CUTEST THING EVER ON THIS FUCKING EARTH, FIGHT ME I LOVE THIS STUPID SELFISH LITTLE CRETIN also it’s yet another episode to add to the list of “times Cartman shows he can grow into a better person” and list of “times Cartman seems to show a special soft spot for Stan”. Cartman does tend to listen more frequently when Stan asks and less frequently for literally anyone else. So the Stanman was strong in this one. Also really enjoyed the Stutters. While yes, Stan was completely using Butters as a tool to project his own feelings of unease I think it really says something that he chose Butters for that role. I think to some extent he felt that Butters might be feeling the same mortality-panic he was feeling (whether it was true or not) and that kinship he felt with Butters led him to feel that Butters was also feeling the way he did. He was panicked and he thought out of all his friends that Butters was the one who might share his feelings. I enjoy that sort of subtle connection between them and it’s been a consistent thread within the show that Butters and Stan just treat each other a little different than they do literally everyone else. It’s worth thinking about.

I think Stan was also at his limit because he was already suffering from isolation issues due to Tegridy Farms from before the pandemic. He’s always been a social boy and this brought him to the brink of what he could handle.

THEY SHOT TOKEN AND I SWEAR TO GOD YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LOUD I WAS SCREAMING AT THE TV I THINK I PISSED OFF MY NEIGHBORS i fucking knew it was coming too. The fucking SECOND they shoved those fucking corrupt ass cops in the same room as Token.... I fucking feared for his life. They’ve killed off fairly major background characters before and killing Token would be... topical. I will make it my mission to personally destroy every fucking cop in South Park (Barbrady gets a pass... BARELY). I hate them all. I’ve hated them all for a long time but they murdered several children (including Kenny, the bastards) and they SHOT MY BOY TOKEN I WILL RIP OFF THEIR FUCKING ARMS SEE HOW WELL YOU CAN SHOOT THEN YOU TRASH BASTARDS

Nothing big Kenny happened this episode, insert sad fanboy noises

There were some strong Kyman moments. Cartman went to Kyle’s house for help at the beginning of the episode, obsessed over whether or not he’d be in the same room as Kyle, tried to vomit on Kyle, AND THEN KYLE FUCKING JUMPED HIM AND BEAT HIS ASS DOWN, FUCK ALL OF YOU WHO INCORRECTLY THINK DIFFERENT KYLE IS A FUCKING DOMINANT TOP, HE DOESN’T TAKE IT, HE GIVES IT

Adding that to my long list of “episodes where Kyle shows he isn’t a pushover, is very violent, and can easily kick Cartman’s bitch ass” because every so once in awhile I have to break out that list when someone insists upon how submissive Kyle is. Bitttttttccchhhhhh, you haven’t watched the show if you think that. My favorite kid doesn’t take your shit

Very interested in Red’s new canon last name (McArthur) but I’m also unsure about it because in the scene’s where it’s shown I couldn’t quite tell if it was actually Red or Powder. She kept being shown from odd angles and her hair looked a little shorter than normal. That said, I’m happy if it is her because I’ve been wanting a canon last name for Red for a long-ass time. Even presuming you go by the cousin’s headcanon for Craig and Red, there’s no guarantee they would have the same last name.

Let’s see, I think I had some other thoughts but those were the main points

OH PAUSE THE SCREEN WHEN THE PARENTS ARE ON ZOOM it’s really cute/funny what the usernames are. For example Annie’s mom is totally just using Annie’s account so she’s probably not very tech savvy. There’s actually a lot of minor character detail that you can infer from those screen-names.

Yeah those are my major thoughts: Randy is trash, nothing new, Cartman was ADORABLE and also lots of good meta for him (I have some hcs that one of the reasons he adored the social distancing so much isn’t because he hates human contact because we know from previous seasons that he’s a bit of a lonely boy, but he likes the social distancing explicitly because it gives him an excuse to reject other people before they can reject him), good stutters moments, good kyman moments, good stanman moments, there were some style moments if you squint? Kyle was one of the people Stan consulted about his feelings of unease but since it wasn’t just Kyle that he consulted it didn’t really feel like that was a special personal part of their relationship, moreso that he wanted Kyle to kiss his booboo and make it better. Although further proof that Kyle is the dom in that relationship. Kyle was agitated over the situation but overall rational, Stan was flipping the fuck out. Stan came to him submissive, scared, and asking for Kyle to make him feel better. Kyle remained calm and logical. I swear to god if I read one more cutesy-innocent Kyle post I might flip a table. Literally Kyle’s canonical self is RIGHT THERE

OH YEAH MY BUTTERS THOUGHTS there’s nothing really new here but it continues the trend of Butters being a self centered prick. (I love him but he is) Instead of even trying to understand the number of people dying or the gravity of the situation, he’s just upset and throwing tantrums because he doesn’t get to play at Build a Bear. And it’s made explicit in the writing that unlike Stan he isn’t struggling with the nebulous fear of death (probably brought on by his uncle getting sick). Butters is just bitter that he doesn’t get to have special things. Also Stan was the only one who tried even a little to save Butters from getting taken by the guards. No one else tried to stop or warn Butters. So again, very cute Stutters moment where Stan is overtly worried for Butters’ well-being even when he’s throwing a bratty tantrum. (I don’t know how anyone perceives Butters as an altruistic person, he’s a selfish twat. he’s a lovable selfish twat, like Cartman, but he’s still a selfish twat. and none of his shitty behavior in this episode was even remotely related to Cartman so you can’t connect it to him. Butters, on his own and without anyone else’s influence, does and acts like a shit-head). There is the excuse that he’s only ten but literally everyone in that cafeteria is only ten. But Butters is the only one kicking other people’s food because he didn’t get his special prize.

This all sounds like I hate Butters. I love Butters, warts and all, I just get really annoyed when fandom ignores his warts because his warts are PART OF THE REASON I LOVE BUTTERS. Also it’s like... blatantly and observably canon that he’s selfish.

I’m going to happily ruminate on Stan feeling a strong pang of protectiveness towards Butters though. That was quite illuminating.

[ladyfeldspar]

11x08: Le Petit Tourette (part 1)

This is one of my favorite episodes and I'm so happy my RNG picked this one for me to ramble to tonight.

Okay, I just need to start by saying how much I love Thomas as a character because he's adorable.

"Black Jackal" sounds like a mildly inappropriate Marvel villain.

Cartman's concerned face.

"The Red Rocket" toy, should that really be marketed to children?

The employee's TS tag - TS = Toy Store = Tourette's Syndrome?

Does he say, "Tourette's Syndroom"?

"Dude, that mom is cool," should immediately bring up some red flags for how this episode is going to go.

Oh my gosh that little groan Thomas does, and the circles under his eyes, and how genuinely afraid he looks when Cartman thinks he's yelling at him, Jesus Christ this poor fucking kid.

Hey, look, Heidi's there.

"I want to go!" Seriously, my heart breaks for this kid, I can't even imagine what he must feel like out in public.

Uh, also, that Bobo toy? The hell is that?

Oh, God, Cartman, here we go.

Cartman, no, Tourette's is not the equivalent of a chocolate factory, please just, please- no, you're gonna go there? ...Okay.

Liane frustrates me because there are times she totally seems with it and like a decent parent and then she's an absolute idiot. Like in TFBW when she's on the phone with the police about the lava and when she's like, "My son says I can't go outside or it'll burn me. ...It won't?"

"Cocksucker." Just the innocent look on his face kills me.

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, Dr. zonder.

Also, I'm sorry, but Cartman's feet animated with toes and everything is for some reason just hilarious to me.

Dr. zonder has like, Hollywood-lookin' hair.

"Hey, Wendy. Dumb bitch!" Subtle, Cartman, subtle.

That poor little Ginger kid!

I love when Kyle's eyebrows go flat like that.

And Craig, so jealous of being able to curse whenever you want. Keep dreaming big dreams, Tucker!

"He's faking." No big plans, no confronting him in private, just, "No, you idiots, he's fucking lying." I love you, Kyle Broflovski.

"With my good friend Kahl." Should this not be enough to tip people off there's something going on? Jesus.

I do like that he admits it to Kyle right away, because it makes the episode able to be about more than Kyle just trying to out him as a faker. And we get Cartman seriously trying to justify what he's doing which is always fun.

I love "Sergeant Buzzkill".

Craig questioning everything about his life up to this point.

"'Scuse me." kills me every single time.

"Spooge, balls, bloody vaginal belch." Like. This is not how Tourette's works, you moron. But I love his tone while he says it, so casual.

Francis is killing himself laughing and Kyle is just so done.

You can even see Tweek's hair shaking because he's laughing too.

Oh my gosh, I remember when I first watched this and that moment when Cartman calls Kyle "kike" I literally went, "Oh no."

"Don't push me, asshole!" "Kyle, watch your language!" I'm so annoyed right there with him at the unfairness of it all.

God, this is just a really good Kyle episode.

He looks so wistful.

I hate this Tourette's awareness guy.

Kyle's evil smile when he thinks he won and then, nope, just kidding, Kyle, you look like the bad guy now.

"...to see that Tourette's is very real." Is it just me or does he say "real" just like the mayor of Imaginationland?

I was so happy to see Thomas in this support group.

I feel so bad for all these kids. I like that Matt and Trey didn't make fun of the kids with Tourette's and just made Cartman and this Tourette's awareness asshole idiots.

THOMAS. Literally heartbroken at this point. He seems like such a sweet kid.

Kyle apologizing was really sad, but also cute, I mean to the support group kids, not Cartman. I like the talking through his teeth thing he does with Cartman though. I would've punched him right in the face.

Take the shot at Kyle's mom while you can, Cartman, you'll pay for it later.

"Isn't having Tourette's awesome?" And Thomas goes, "...Wait."

To be continued because my thoughts are too much for Tumblr to handle.

[chimeras-and-company]

13 twogami+most Naughty Action in your rp, 21 twog, 6

6. hardest/easiest character to write for?

I’ll have to go off Danganronpa for a moment to say that actually Eric Cartman is the hardest character to write for. In the old-as-dirt fanfic I never finished and a group rp I had with two friends he took a STUPID long time to really nail down for accuracy and complexity enough. And even then I’m all ??? to how much he’ll care about what. He’s like a Schrodinger’s Villain, man. At least with other villainous characters like Suzuhiko, Kijou, Virus (etc) their motives (and people they love and hate) are easier to remember. I blame Trey on this.

(Disclaimer that this Suzuhiko has been rewritten from the novels’ characterisation to not be triggering. I don’t condone the novels’ version’s actions in any way, and they’re not canon in this group’s storyline.)

Easiest character to write for is obviously Twogami, but mostly due to practice for three years (hey, it’s the anniversary of when I joined Screaming this month!) I think because of how they can give so much free space to write headcanons for, yet also have enough subtle characterisation in the canon works to not be too free. It’s a nice balance for me. I think that’s why Izayoi also was fun to do, a solid slate; I miss him. 

13. why did Twogami do most Naughty Action™ in this fic/verse/chapter/scene?

Let’s not include Despair Weeks in here, those were TOO Naughty.

A few years ago there was a rp in SHSL Screaming (Hope.exe’s predecessor) where Teruteru had a surplus of (illegal!! They’re both underaged!) beer cans, and he decided to do a ‘drunk Mario Kart’ session with Twog’s in the rec room.

Mostly due to square cube law Twog’s was a heavyweight champion with the drinks yet Teru was eventually out like a light. Why exactly did they agree to this? They knew their own high bar of limits and wanted to make sure Teru doesn’t hurt himself with the drinking. A designated driver at home if you will. 

(Runner-up goes to waaaay back in 2015 where Twog’s was in a disguise of Hifumi, and had first met Byakuya and called him “a tsundere, a very common archetype.” Why? They saw that chance and they took it. It was hilarious.)

21. Twogami’s best/worst memory?

In their current memory so far in the group:- Best: the January festival Hiyoko had hosted. With the foods, being with Peko among all the animals, the ice sculpture contest, and the raffle! - Worst: the hazy time of being kidnapped by previously wronged mark’s connections during the September storms, and almost drowning in the park river and the subsequent hospital stay. Thankfully they made a recovery since then.

ALL the memories altogether, even those they were forced to forget:- Best: admitting their talent (which was previously kept secret) in the gymnasium to a group of classmates. They first thought they had to leave the school after the confession, but was convinced otherwise to stay by everyone involved. Including the three they were closest to; Aoi, Byakuya, and Teruteru. Bya in particular even hugged them in relief then!- Worst: waking up the night after the first Despair Week they hosted. They woke up in the gym, out of the disguise they were previously using, and was swamped by paranoia and other negative emotions. They thought they were found out as a fraud by everyone who was stirring around them, and must disappear from the school for good. They escaped back to their dorm to hide away.

~~~~~

Thank you so much, Livi! Sorry for the text wall.

Other muses mentioned belonged to Skitts, @kittyluvzcats , @bestbear , @voidsvessel and @standdisc !

[erratic-brainrot]

Okay. This. Post. /pos

I can’t fully articulate everything really clearly st this moment since I’m writing this as a reply when I have other things I should be doing (lol) but I agree in ADDITION to this post.

I believe that Stan completely struggles within ideas of (internalized) toxic masculinity for the reasons you pressed above, as well as Marvin comments and conversations, and the fact that it’s the thing that he gets ripped on the most (outside of being a “tree hugging hippy” which he couldn’t give two shits about that)

Keeping headcanons outside of possible internalize homophobia or whatever have you.

These things can truly fuck with his sense of self. Stan kinda used to be a “flowy” character (sorry I’m trying to find the word for it) not inherently flamboyant since it was more subtle but definitely on that line. He was more expressive and excitable (which partly is due to him being a “kid” most likely, however-) with a lot of times he seems to “correct” his behaviour after he’s told off for it in some feminizing way (with homosexual being associate typically outside of masculinity to him so it co-insides)

“Fun with veal” season 6, episode 4

Feels really glaring to me in the sense of how Stan

a) seems to have genuine moments of being expressive in a not hyper masc way, but kinda “shuts it down”?

b)Is actively punished for his compassion to reject meat for the sake of animals— by a feminine “punishment” (sorry this wording is poor here, I’m too tired to explain it beyond really simplistic terms)

But the later half one to me kinda feeds in to this idea to me that Stan often undercuts a lot of the things he loves and cares about simply out of the fear of being de-masculinized.

Though most of the times Stan is “rewarded” for keeping “true to himself” it isn’t always the case.

And you can see he kinda has a way more oddly enough open attitude as a kid to just being himself (previous to season four I believe???) where he’s just happy go lucky and more open to that not macho rooted behaviour. He does care about opinions of others, and it’s why he slowly alters himself.

He has the need to be mascho! Even his costumes wreak of that hyper masculinity even if it’s a very childish approach of “no sleeves” or shit. Like idk him choosing to be a human instead of an elf feels really odd to me (it’s fair for pretend because fuck it, have fun… but for the sake of race based war in their game, it feels like a really particular choice.)

Just akshsksh it’s messy but I hope that adds to what you had to say about him specifically.

Also I do think part of the fun for Cartman man is lost because Kyle growing jadded too and is too tired to pull on the same huff as before. This isn’t fun anymore. They’re just getting pissy on the down low. And it’s not a great time.

But I completely do agree Stan cares about Kyle! And that’s enjoyable for Cartman to use! But I wanted to reference Kyle because there is a lot of times Stan doesn’t come to his aid (not that Stan is cruel, I think normalization just hit him like most of the school) and even agrees with cartman when I honestly really don’t think he should. Cartman enjoys Kyle without Stan a notable bit. Though I think the broship failing was on Stan and Kyle’s shoulders the most- I have to believe there is something more to Cartman’s distance from Kyle… esp with all the dumb shit in the tegridy farms/vape episode.

So yeah, your points are strong and I love them! Just wanted to add my two cents!

why do you think cartman is abusing stan? they get along ok

I think Cartman’s abusive towards everyone with Kyle and Butters getting the worst of it. But I have come around more to the way Cartman’s abusive to Stan than when I made my initial analysis of their relationship. I said there that Cartman attacked things that mostly Stan’s not bothered by, and some of that’s true. Like, attacking him for caring about animals isn’t something that affects him very often.

But with that said, there IS a core of attacking Stan for (lacking) masculinity and that actually does seem to be something he’s anxious about…just not to Cartman directly. Cartman regularly calls him a pussy, gay, weak, seeming like a girl. The Cissy is probably the best example of the name-calling because it encompasses basically all of it

Do you know your girlfriend’s going around tellin’ everyone that you’re gay?! [Stan looks around] Oh yeah! She’s got the whole school believin’ that she’s attracted to girls, but she’s dating you! So what does that make you, Stan?! A girl! STAN-AN’S A GIR-RL! You’d better curb your dog, Stan! You’d better curb your dog before people start ripping on you!

He tells Stan he’s too weak to control his girlfriend, that he’s gay, and that he’s a girl all at once. Stan actually has a reaction (looking around, looking nervous, and he does end up talking to his dad and Principal Victoria. Cartman GOT a reaction, just not one he wanted).

The thing is, Stan’s masculinity IS the thing he’s most defensive of, and is his ‘weak point’ in relation to Kyle being Jewish, Kenny being poor, Butters being naive. He gets nervous about seeming gay and has to overcome it. He does get ripped on/ name-called/dismissed for not being manly enough or seeming gay by both his uncle, who he looks up to, and his dad, who he does (for most of the show) have a mutually loving relationship with. MOST of the 'Stan has a moment of character growth in the way of accepting who he is’ comes down to him being okay with shirking stereotypical masculinity. Cartman is a master at honing in on weaknesses and he ABSOLUTELY has Stan’s down.

So, then, why doesn’t Cartman really tear the shit out of him more?

The thing is that Stan doesn’t rise to the bait in angry outbursts. Kyle does. Kenny does, sometimes, too. Butters is specifically dismissed as a Kyle punching bag replacement because he doesn’t. But Cartman also can’t just casually abuse him constantly the way he does Butters, or put Stan’s dick in his mouth while he sleeps, or give him a poop moustache, because Stan would up and leave the friendship, or actually physically beat him up. It has to be a verbal or emotional, non-physical attack. Stan doesn’t get ripped on by Cartman more because he doesn’t tend to take the bait in a way that would be fun and would let Cartman continue to feed off of it and really tear him to pieces.

So why doesn’t Stan take the bait? Is he not upset by it?

The thing is he DOES get upset about this kind of thing. He just tends not to confront it directly. Instead he tends to want to compensate for the accusations. He tries to force Sparky to be straight. He doesn’t play along at the wild west show because Wendy’s there. He shoots and kills Skuzzlebutt. He becomes hypercritical of Gary and chews him out for Mormonism. And in each and every one of these cases, the best choice is consistently for him not to worry about seeming like anything except what he is. I think The Cissy is a step forward for him in, instead of outright denying who he is, he just sits down and questions it instead. Personally I think there hasn’t been another comment on it since he came to the conclusion he is a boy (I know there’re nb headcanons for him and I won’t pick at it too much because I don’t think it runs contrary to his character per se, I just don’t agree with it. I see it as more of another masculinity introspection than really specifically a gender one), but I think it’s a step forward for his character growth. He has multiple times gone through an arc of 'hide who you are, then realize who you are is really an asset’, and sometimes that gets to a point of 'fuck what people think’ but often it just kind of is what it is and he doesn’t really do anything with it. He still cares about not being manly enough, and often the lesson of it is 'yeah you ARE kind of a pussy but it’s fine, people will like you anyway, or being a pussy is beneficial to helping people’. While the recent seasons have made Stan more depressed and miserable, he’s also FINALLY starting to get to a point of– instead of worrying what makes other people like him, what makes him an asset to other people– 'What makes me like myself? What makes me who I am?’

ANYWAY with all that said, the reason Cartman doesn’t get much out of moments like this is that Stan often doesn’t have a reaction, period. Sometimes it’s because he probably literally doesn’t care. He doesn’t always value Cartman’s opinion, and he does seem able to let a lot of comments go as just being bullshit. The other thing is that if it actually gets to the point of GETTING a reaction, it’s not one that would be fun for Cartman. Literally the only thing that’s ever come out of Stan reacting to the insecurity that Cartman harps on (whether because of Cartman or not) is that he either suppresses or questions it, and decides he likes himself more as he was to start with. Like he very consistently has improved himself through being criticized on this very point.

So does he have a point that Cartman can hurt him on?

Absolutely, and that point is Kyle.

Stan consistently has stronger, more hurt, more violent reactions to Cartman when it’s Kyle that Cartman’s going after. When Cartman makes a comment that Kyle’s going to die, Stan tells him not to say things like that (even though people regularly die or talk about death around them). When Cartman’s treating Kyle unfairly and Kyle can’t do anything about it himself, Stan rights it. Even when Stan and Kyle aren’t getting along, multiple seasons after Stan told Kyle that he was destroying the last thread of friendship they had left by siding with Cartman in the GOT arc, he still takes tit-for-tat revenge on Cartman in Band in China for Kyle’s sake.

The way to get Kyle to respond in a fun way is for Cartman to attack Kyle.

The way to get Stan to respond in a fun way is for Cartman to attack Kyle.

I think it’s noteworthy that when Cartman checks out on the 'broship’ it’s after Stan has checked out on Kyle, and pointedly stayed out of Kyle’s fight with Cartman even after Kyle asked him to get involved with it. It’s not worth keeping Stan tied in to the group because he’s not coming to Kyle’s defense, so there’s no fun to be had in Stan hanging around. It’s ALSO noteworthy that Kyle is equally blindsided by both of them.

But, okay, Cartman is nice to Stan sometimes. He’s probably nicer to him than he is pretty much any other character. I think Cartman was playing a balancing act and lost.

He wants Stan and Kyle to be friends, because their friendship is important to get them both riled up. But he wants himself to be the most important to both of them, and that means he HAS to knock them down a peg in each other’s opinions. They need to be friends with each other, good enough friends that Stan wants to defend Kyle when Cartman’s mean to him and Kyle can’t defend himself. It’s no fun if Kyle’s literally defenseless and Cartman gets jack for a reaction. But they have to be best friends with Cartman, because Cartman has a massive ego. This is a pretty damn hard line to walk.

But here are some nice things that Cartman’s done for Stan:

-He came and hung out with him on Tegridy, and had solo activities bonding with him through board games and things like that.

-He helped Stan with the drug ring in Hummels and Heroin

-He saved the pangolin

The first two things are a clear spit in Kyle’s face. Kyle is the core group who seems most disconnected from what’s going on on Tegridy. Cartman is very clearly trying to take Kyle’s place as Stan’s go-to. Around(ish, keeping in mind the show’s internal timeline) the same time, through the GOT arc, he is focusing his attention on bonding with Kyle.

Likewise, Kyle tells Stan outright he’s not going to help with the Hummels problem in the second case. Cartman gets involved because Stan says he 'needs’ him. He’s willing to help because it puts him in direct competition with Kyle; he’s helping Stan when Kyle told him to figure it out himself. He is weasling in on the best friend role.

In the last case, I think it’s because he still wanted the 'broship’ to work, and like I said I think he did up until Stan gave up on his friendship with Kyle. Stan’s having a complete mental breakdown, which would cause issues and not be enjoyable on Cartman’s end, so he’ll give him a bone and let him maintain his sanity so Cartman can keep having fun pitting Stan and Kyle against each other while being besties with them both. He just flew too close to the sun and lost with it because Stan was teetering on the edge for the friendship since YGO and the next episode pushed him over.

In conclusion, Cartman’s actions with Stan are 100% meant to manipulate him and emotionally destroy him. It just happens that Stan takes attacks on himself pretty internally and might even come out stronger for it. So for the most part if everything else is going fine, he’s a tough nut to crack. The stuff that really fucks him up and tears him apart mentally is attacking Kyle, or attacking his friendship with Kyle.

[wendytestabrat]

why no one listens to kyle

kyle is so annoying bc all he does is run around throwing all of his unsolicited advice at everyone and judging people and acting like he knows better than them and there’s a good reason why no one wants to listen to kyle and they just ignore him when he does LMAOOO. also i hate it when people say kyle is the voice of reason like is he rlly even the voice of reason? if the show even has a voice of reason i think it would be stan bc he usually says more rational things at the right time but whatever DHSJJS. like stan has said way more profound things in the show that like blew my mind than kyle ever did lmaoooo. like that time he talked sense into randy abt his alcoholism and was like telling him to drink in moderation or the time he totally roasted mormons and sm more shit lol. but ofc all the fans have to kiss kyle’s ass bc “hE’s tHe sMArtESt oNE”. kyle is the worst voice of reason ever bc no one ever listens to him or wants to listen to him like…LMAOO. a good voice of reason is a character that actually does offer wisdom at the right times whom the other characters look up to for support in tough situations and shit like kyle ain’t yoda or uncle iroh. i think the show’s original voice of reason was chef bc he played that role rlly well bc he was a chill dude that was sane for the most part who the boys (INCLUDING KYLE) went to for their problems, so literally who tf thought it was a good idea to replace chef’s role as that person with KYLE? voice of reasons are all calm and sensible and kyle isn’t he’s overly emotional and reactive and does dumbass shit all the time LMAOOO. but that’s why no one wants to listen to kyle when he gives them a lecture abt something they’re doing wrong. like something i’ve learned over the years is u have to be rlly careful with who you take advice from. people always give advice from their own filter and how they view the world and what they would do, so if u take advice from someone retarded and crazy you’ll end up doing retarded and crazy things too LMAOOO. u have to take your advice from someone u actually wanna be like, and no one wants to be like kyle bc he’s fucking crazy and they don’t look up to him in any way shape or form BWAHAH. plus kyle is a huge hypocrite too and he doesn’t walk it like he talks it, i mean if u actually want people to listen to you LEAD BY EXAMPLE. which kyle never does, he preaches abt morality but he never acts morally. people actually respect what u have to say when u do that lol. i love that one moment in the episode “fishsticks” when craig lowkey called kyle out on his shit in a subtle way when kyle was shitting on jimmy and telling him what to do bc jimmy was letting cartman take credit for the fishsticks joke. he’s like “just give him half” like craig was saying how he should be grateful that cartman is still giving him half of the credit & the royalties for the joke, and fighting back at cartman to try to take all the credit back would just be a dumb thing to do bc u can’t beat cartman LMAOOO. craig is straight up like “i like you jimmy, but you aren’t gonna win this” honestly craig was being such a good friend that’s how u can tell craig is a real friend to jimmy and kyle is just a fake friend LMAOO, craig was trying to protect jimmy from doing something dumb that could get him hurt while kyle was encouraging jimmy to just do what he always does which is getting into pointless drama with cartman LMAOOOO. (bc craig is actually sane in the head and kyle isn’t) but ofc kyle gets all butthurt abt this bc he has to always be right and he can’t take any criticism so then he has to argue with craig for no reason abt this and is like “no!!1!1 if cartman didn’t write the joke he doesn’t deserve any of the credit!1!1!” and craig is just so done and like ignores kyle and moves on LMAOOOOO i love him. but that was an example of another character calling kyle out for giving bs advice and how he always acts like a know it all when no one fucking cares or likes him or wants to listen to him.

[crys-jo]

I SWEAR- the exact moment that Cartman started snapping and being genuinely hateful at Kyle was the very last episode of season 4 and beginning season 5 and I keep telling my brother (who really doesn't care) that before then, Kyle was just being unnecessarily hostile to Cartman and noticing things about him that "bothered him" and it's like, why are you hyperfixating on that?? (Especially the comments about cartman's big fat ass, like, why are you looking there anyway Kyle, why does it matter so much that you feel the need to point it out 🤨) Meanwhile Cartman was just a little obnoxious in his mannerisms and behavior, but overall not an inherently bad person, just an annoying kid, which last I checked, isn't a crime. Most of the hateful things he did prior were just cause of Liane or things taken out of context by the people around him. For the most part he was oblivious to the connotations with, say for example, the costume Liane made for him during Halloween. He just saw it as a 'costume' his mom made for him. He didn't choose it, it was MADE by Liane and GIVEN to him, which is why I don't count it as genuine hate.

Also, the fact that anyone thinks Kyle is good and always has been is so funny to me cause he was anything but. He was so cruel to Cartman in the first few seasons. I know they all were but not as much as kyle.

Back to the actual post, it reminds me of a scene I keep thinking about in s3e12 "Korn's Groovy Pirate Ghost Mystery" when Korn and the boys decide to split up into two groups they have, "everyone who enjoys having obstacles in their life which they can overcome go this way" *pointing to his left* "and everyone who's insecurities sabotage their potential to overcome those obstacles go that way" *points to his right* Stan, Kyle walk over to the left while Eric and Kenny walk over to the right.

I think about that a lot more than is probably normal because it just outright states Kyle loves a challenge, (Cartman does too but I digress) and to me it explains why he's so passionate about Eric, because he sees Eric as the greatest obstacle in his life. (Of course this isn't really new information but bare with me)

In the past, Eric was just minding his own business while Kyle bitched at him, but when Cartman started biting back and actually initiating conflicts with him, that's when Kyle's character naturally starts to change, all in order to properly take on the new challenge in his life; eric cartman.

He didn't change (completely) out of the goodness of his heart, he changed because he loves being challenged and thanks to said love, he naturally gravitated and adapted to eric's new "approach"?? to their dynamic, (whether he'll ever openly admit to it is another story) it's a matter of pride and excitement for him. He likes the feeling of being right, he likes the satisfaction that comes with winning, he likes feeling superior to someone else especially if he feels that they are beneath him (which he often does thanks to his subtle black and white way of thinking), he likes the rush of adrenaline, and he likes stroking his own ego but he hides all of it under the mask of altruism because at least then it makes his obsession with Cartman understandable and like it's for a just and noble cause rather than the selfish truth that he's just absolutely obsessed with him and how he thrives and preens at the prospect of proving eric wrong.

Eric is there to push him in all the right (though everyone else would say otherwise) ways. Nothing inspires Kyle more than when he has a metaphorical puzzle to solve or something to prove, and it just so happens that Eric gives him a way to prove himself every day.

I personally think that's what makes Eric and Kyle's relationship so interesting, because Kyle wants people to think he's a selfless/good person and I think he's actually deluded himself into believing he wholeheartedly is because it allows him to avoid reflecting on why he can't ever seem to back down from even the smallest of conflicts, or at least, the ones involving eric. Eric on the other hand has taken a bit of Kyle's spirit for confrontation back at Kyle, which I believe might've initially been his small way of saying 'fuck you too' to Kyle for all the unnecessary teasing and bullying in the episodes/seasons prior but has now just devolved into this weird and unique relationship they have with each other. However unlike Kyle, cartman's obsession with causing a scene seems to come more from a place of attention seeking. While he also loves a challenge, he just isn't as adept as kyle at dealing with them since he is his own worst enemy. Cartman wants attention, and he knows the best way to get it is to stir some shit.

No one gives him more attention in his life then Kyle and he knows this. Why do you think he's always actively trying to piss him off and get under his skin? Why does everything always come back to Kyle and hardly ever anyone else? He doesn't care if he destroys himself in the process either, because as long as Kyle's full attention is on him and he gets to engage with him and share any small moment of human interaction with him (regardless of if it's healthy or productive) then he still thinks it's worth it and normal/valid to seek out.

Kyle needs to feel challenged/threatened directly or indirectly by Eric in order for him to engage with him for longer periods of time with his full attention due to the way their dynamic is set in place. The boxes they cornered themselves into when they started this mess makes the expectations of their relationship that of constant fighting without end. Anything outside that would be immediately noticed by themselves or the people around them. They would never actively seek each other's attention under normal circumstances because that would be 'weird' and out of character for them, though this doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to, they're still friends at the end of the day.

Thanks to this eric seems to love challenging him. A challenge means guaranteed attention from kyle and to eric that's exciting and quite possibly everything he could ever ask for. I think it adds to the rush they get from each other, with their need to one up each other as a way to feel/look normal about interacting with and being close to each other without it being 'strange' or 'gay'.

Attention is eric's main goal and a challenge is just the super nice bonus he gets from it, as for Kyle it's mostly the other way around. (honestly though bickering can be really fun though, maybe they're both just tsunderes or something and I'm just looking too deep into it lmao)

It's funny because, it could have been anyone. If anyone else challenged Kyle or if anyone else had started giving Eric attention first, things could have been very different but because it's THEM TOGETHER- Kyle with his obsession over Cartman and with craving a challenge, and Cartman with his craving for attention, most importantly Kyle's attention because let's be real that boy has an obsessive crush on him, they just WORK??

They fulfill each other's needs whether they like it or not. Cartman fuels Kyle's ego and gives him excitement and something to look forward to "fixing or solving" or feeling morally superior for, while in return Cartman gets the attention he so desperately craves and lacks, (mostly as a result of his home life and loneliness, which ties back to his insecurities) and because of this, no matter how many fights or people telling them to just "ignore" each other, thats NEVER going to happen. They're always going to come back to each other so long as they stay stuck in their ways. They're codependent on each other, they fundamentally NEED each other. I don't even just mean this in a gay 'oh I ship kyman' way, (that just adds spice to everything nice) but just in general. They NEED each other and they themselves know this deep down. They would feel empty, like something is constantly missing because the reality is there's no way they can function without each other, it's just not an option anymore (if it ever even was). Why do you think they keep saving each other despite constantly stating that the world would be a better place if the other dropped dead? We know this is true from cartman's little rescue mission and how everything literally WASN'T the same without Kyle there. He tried to replace Kyle but it was immediately apparent that butters wasn't Kyle and that no one else, especially in South Park, would ever BE kyle. Kyle himself has changed Cartman in the way that now that he's had a taste of everything Kyle can dish out, he can't go back to anything less.

That fire is non-replaceable; there's no other thing in the world that burns him like Kyle does and the feeling seems to be mutual.

They would never admit it even if they were held at gunpoint, that's too much pride at stake. If they were to be truly honest with each other, then their relationship might change. They would lose the steady control over the one thing they feel secure in, their 'thing'.

Being honest with each other means being vulnerable, but they can't do that with the relationship they currently have because that gives the other party access to fuel for another fight or scheme or whatever. They can't be honest with each other until they know for absolute certain that the other party will also be 100% honest and vulnerable as well, that is unless they take a huge risk, but that's probably never gonna happen given the amount of times they have both lied or taken advantage of each other's "weakness".

They'll both suspect foul play from the other and either close themselves off or attack first, regardless of if there actually is any, because they can't fully trust each other. If they did, then that would make the whole point of their dynamic, their little "game" they like to play, useless. It would no longer be a challenge, it would no longer be fun. Suddenly it's not an engaging and elaborate game of cat and mouse, it's instead a scary game of vulnerability and insecurity. Even if they wanted things to change, they can't, (at least, not with the way things currently are) and that's ok with them. Because at least to them it's normal, routine, expected and they on some level, like what they have. If that were to change then they wouldn't know how to act because it's not what they're used to. They'd no longer be playing an entertaining game, meaning they can no longer hide behind said game as an excuse or shield for their behavior or actual feelings. Any genuine honesty would make things, and by extension their relationship, unknown territory.

Why risk losing the thing that gives them a reason to wake up every morning (even if it IS just to keep each other in line) when they can instead keep the status quo and never worry about losing sight of each other and everything they have.

They're comfortable where they are. It's why they can't ignore each other, it's why they keep coming back to each other, it's why besting each other is more important than what they're fighting about, it's why they come back and act like it's all normal and it's why they ignore anyone that gives them advice on how to end the cycle because the truth is they don't want it to end. If this 'thing' they had suddenly stopped, then they'd have to face no one but themselves. They'd have to face the fact that they have certain needs that have been fulfilled by each other for as long as they can remember and that without each other, they would need to either find a picture perfect replacement or live without their fundamental wants and needs met.

Unfortunately, they're both one of a kind and no one else will ever be the same. Not butters, not Stan, or Kenny, etc. No one can do 'them' better than they can. It only raises the stakes when you realize all they have to lose if they somehow truly mess it up

PHEW- I've been wanting to get that off my chest for a FAT while

honestly i think kyle always had a crush on cartman