#I get that Chinese culture is foreign to westerners but it’s not always about you

[stardust-falling]

Anyway as much as I do appreciate westerners taking an interest in Chinese culture it sometimes feels like my culture is just viewed as an art piece. Chinese people and culture are not artworks on display for western viewers’ pleasure. We are very real people, with very real culture, and as someone who has been overseas and removed from my culture for a good portion of my life it sometimes hurts when CN culture is just viewed as surface level “pretty” or heaven forbid “aesthetic,” when it’s so much more than that.

[alatismeni-theitsa]

I love your blog! I think this will be a safe space to talk and i will start this discussion in english but i can’t stand international groups mainly english speakers who occupy the ancient greek space whether it is online or academically. We greeks are taunted and patronised about everything, i don’t see people acting the same way to germans or norwegians when they know barely of their pre christian religions or why they arent vikings like the old times, even countries like india who they aren’t anymore like their great past yet get a pass. And in the end of the day they don’t even know anything else aside from the big three as i call them aka Athens,Sparta and Macedon occasionally Thebes but then again ignore many other smaller city states,kingdoms and islands that existed at the same time and had their own unique cultures. I mean even our name “Hellas” came from a funky epirotan tribe that foreigners would deem as un-greek because greekness to them is antiquity period.

True, for the colonizing nations and the empires who wanted to claim ancient Greece as theirs, Greeks can never win. It's been like this for centuries at this point, because arguments like "Greeks are uneducated therefore they don't deserve this heritage" or "they don't look the same is their ancient super idealized statues, so they are not ACTUALLY Greeks by blood, therefore not having a right to Greek heritage although they're culturally Greek" have been already used since the 19th century at least. Another "argument" that servers the same purpose is "Greek culture belongs to everyone", meanwhile they never say this about Norwegian, Egyptian, Indian, Afghani, Chinese, and other cultures 🙄

I think the same argument of the locals lacking some knowledge has also been used used for India and Egypt at some point, when Western Europeans were doing excavations and research there and considered themselves better than the locals who "dared" not having a perfect knowledge of what those buried things in their country were.

Locals don't have an obligation to have perfect knowledge of their heritage in order to have a right to it.

Those who you can expect an almost perfect knowledge from are scholars, who are specifically getting paid to devote most of their time in the subject. And, of course there were always Greek scholars who studied their antiquity. Not to mention, even scholars can't know everything and have to devote their attention to certain periods.

[zzoupz]

when it comes to the Isan region, does the average Thai person care whether or not they side with Laos or Thailand? due to the past wars, it seems like the people of the Korat plateau have their own identity—yet from books I read, many of the younger generations feel stuck whether claiming to be “Thai” or “Lao” and in doing so only speak central Thai.

another question is are all the Russians and Chinese people in Thailand all that bad like how the media portrays them? ex: defecating in public, pushing and shoving, public drunken fights, etc. whether you’ve personally dealt them or not, do you ever wish they either not visit all together or just be very cautious and respectful of local life? 

(I think) my final question is about westernized Thais. While many foreigners visit Thailand for either cultural reasons, religious, retiring, food, sex tourism, surgeries, etc., there are many westernized Thais who have moved/visited Thailand. do you think natives sees them as lesser than or as another foreigner? are they treated differently despite having mannerisms appearance, mindset, etc. that’s more associated with the west?

hi, thanks for the questions

I may not be the best person to ask this bc I'm a Chinese descendant who grew up in central Thailand all my life haha. I can say at least from my friends they don't really care, they are just Isan and consider themselves Thai bc they are born in Thailand (and vice versa). They speak central Thai to people from other places only bc that's the universal one (as other regions also do). I don't think they have to pick a "side" considering we're not in a conflict. idk I've never heard of that before.

I've not had bad experiences with them personally. I've heard it's bad in tourist spots but that's just typical tourist behavior (hell most of the time it's USAmerican tourists that gets in trouble). So not as much as they're portrayed but they DO do that. And yes I hope they still visit but be more respectful, not just Russians and Chinese but everyone

I have an aunt who moved to USA to be a professor for about 10 years before coming back, and I can guarantee they're not treated any differently, they'll always be Thai. If anything people praise and envies them for having the money/opportunity to move aboard haha

hope those were good enough answers ! :]

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

So, a few days ago, I saw a thread on Tiktok showcasing pictures of people of various races and skintones wearing hanfus and it made me realize how much we still center whiteness when we think of diversity and inclusion?? Because when you really think about it, when these words come to mind, we often think about people of color standing next to a white character and being dressed in similar ways, having « assimilated » into white people’s culture. What we call « casual » clothing is literally something that white people have imposed onto us and they deemed our cultural clothing as « other ». In the majority of « diverse » stories, movies and shows, it’s always people of color living in majority white places and being surrounded by white culture but never like… People of various races and skin tones living in places where the majority of people are not white but also whose ethnicity / culture is different from theirs?

We need media like this! I want to see a story set in China with an East Asian protagonist who has a racially diverse group of friends who may or may not have grown up in China and live surrounded by Chinese culture, partaking in it and appreciating it, you know? Or a story like this but in India or Ethiopia or literally any place that’s not North America or Europe?? So far, I can only think of one story that’s like this and it’s Cinder by Marissa Meyer, where the protagonist is a Chinese girl living in futuristic China, where there’s people of different races coexisting and all sharing the same culture. Whiteness shouldn’t be the default, even when it comes to diversity and inclusion! Also, white people need to see themselves as the « others » too sometimes, like give us white characters growing up in places where the dominant culture is not theirs and they’re the ones who have to adapt / assimilate!

hey thanks for this!!! I really appreciate this ask because part of the reason is that lots of media we're exposed to is made in the usa and europe. like ok cinder is a good example of being set in futuristic china. but like it still has far too many white people for me. I tried getting into the three body problem and that was really good because its set in fictional china and like... there's so few asian/african/indigenous works that get featured in american libraries and get prestigious western awards.

like I'll give you an example most libraries when they have materials in foreign languages a sizable portion is western works by white authors into foreign languages. hp is a good example of this as well as diary of a wimpy kid.

One that features asian locations but starts out in NYC is Warcross by Marie Lu. It's a duology!

followers please recommend works not set in usa/europe!!!

mod ali

[kaibutsushidousha]

Do you think Japanese names should be localized as is (Family Name first) or should the order be in keeping with western order (Family Name last)? Does context matter?

The answer to "Does context matter?" will always be yes. That said, while I have many examples where Western name order is acceptable, I don't have any examples where it's preferable.

Western name order was invented to more easily acclimate the English-speaking world to Japanese names. Still, Chinese people have been part of their cultural sphere for much longer and have never been subjected to Western name order (correct me if I'm wrong, I've never researched this in depth). Later, with the popularization of Korean media, the Koreans didn't get their name order reversed either. The phenomenon seems exclusive to Japan as far as I've seen it.

Until a few years back, I was of the mind that Western name order was preferable by default, but actually talking to Japanese people about it showed most of them don't like their names used in reverse order, so now I avoid Western name order for real, which is slowing bleeding into me avoiding it for fictional characters too.

Another factor to consider is that Western name order was created as part of a process of acclimation to a new foreign culture and I feel like we're already at the point where America and Europe are already acclimated. The transition period is already over and Western name order can retire with its purpose fulfilled. However, I admit my lens here is very biased by my extensive contact with Japan and its culture.

But for a more nuanced discussion here, let's assume Western name order is still preferable by default and look at examples of where I would have used Eastern name order even when that was the mindset.

Steins;Gate is an example of a thing I'd maintain in Eastern name order since the original LabMem call each other nicknames based on this name order (Okarin for Okabe Rintarou, Mayushii for Mayuri Shiina, and Daru for Hashida Itaru) and there are a lot additional jokes based on those nicknames. I could adapt all of those if I were to insist on Western name order, but that's too much extra work for no tangible benefit. Not to mention the average otaku level of the cast raising the Western accessibility bar regardless of what name order we're going with.

That said, Sagrada Reset has a lot less pushing factors than Steins;Gate but I still opted for Eastern name order in my translation just to accommodate the wordplay with Oka Eri's name. Just one small thing like this is enough.

Another example of a series where Western name order doesn't work is Type-Moon, mostly thanks to the Fate/ side that currently comprises 80% of it. Many Servants are Chinese (+ a Vietnamese pair), who don't customarily get Western name orders, so it would feel randomly inconsistent if the Japanese characters did. Any series that plays multiculturalism as a major element should default to each character's original name order to better express differences between nations. There is also how the text itself plays with name order, which is a neat thing to reflect in a translation. I'm talking about how every Japanese character uses Eastern name order for Rin, Shirou, Ayaka, Kiritsugu, Aoko, Touko, etc. while the majority of the Clock Tower/Snowfield people use Western name order. Waver being a rare English man who calls Japanese people by Eastern name order informs character, for example.

Lastly, I have Danganronpa as an example of a series where it's okay to use Western name order. The only major nickname involving Eastern name order is Harumaki, which needs to change anyway for some puns. All characters have Japanese names except Celestia Ludenberg and Sonia Nevermind, and those two don't swap the order of anyone's name, so you're not removing any level of characterization unique to them by working this change. No harm to be had.

[mystxmomo]

Luckily for us both, I LOVE long CC rambles AND hearing myself speak.

I'll start with the second paragraph, because I have a bigger talking point for the first that I think requires leading into it with discussion of the second. While I fully agree that idv has flaws and issues even above and beyond cultural differences from western sensibilities, I don’t think western media escapes that either. We may notice it less, or notice it differently, because it’s not being filtered through the magnifier of cultural differences, but it’s still there; sometimes it’s even more insidious. Think about how many times Wizards of the Coast has had to change something because of how wildly offensive it is to native cultures - really, think about how often it's pointed out that some fantasy game has species with REALLY BAD racial coding in western media in general. (But all that said, this is not one vs the other, its shitty that both have these problems and pointing one out doesn’t excuse the other.)

The thing I always try to point out and ask when these conversations arise is - how much do you as a (presumably, American, though that in itself is a very American thing to assume, lmao) know about /China's/ current socio-political environment? How much Do YOU know about what they consider to be offensive, about their political movements, the public reaction to their political movements, or anything about the modern issues outside of "CSS bad" (which, a lot of China agrees with). Do you even know the Chinese presidents name? How much do you expect a chinese company to know about western culture, in return. And you can make a lot of arguments ie: the extent about their resources. But then you have to think back to the first point I made. Bad implementation of their research isn't an issue unique to this company.

Sometimes, the criticisms of the game are VERY real and very serious. Stuff like the the white washing of their POC characters and the costuming of other cultures shouldn't escape criticism, and they have responded to backlash of these things by changing it. But sometimes, it is Very American Sensibilities clashing with foreign cultural standards. As an example. People criticizing Dance in the Snow for "sexualizing chinese culture." You know. People criticizing the chinese company. For sexualizing chinese cultural clothing. (they're allowed to do that. I cannot stress enough how much a chinese company is allowed to market it's own clothing as sexually as it wants) Or, a more subtle and less ridiculous one. Did you know that China has a HUGE issue with physiognomy? It's not my place to talk about at length, because again. I'm white, and the extent to which I CAN talk about it is through second hand research (which I recommend doing your own of) and machine translated weibo discussions. The impression I get with what I HAVE seen is that Phillipe is a criticism of a very real current cultural issue that we as Westerners wouldn't be privy to, and so when his character came out people REALLY focused in on his racism from the perspective of how it historically effected black people in america, and now how it's VERY CURRENTLY effecting the larger Chinese working class.

And. Thats the thing, right? This trend with a lot of younger political types, where they think that to be allowed to like something with these flaws, they have to be hyper critical about EVERYTHING about it. There's this desire for easy snap judgements, and an unwillingness to dissect and engage outside of that snap judgement. And thats really not how engaging with media critically /works./ And this isn't JUST something strictly found in idv, nor just how in people consume media. There's something a lot of modern activists talk about, where they feel guilt and burnout engaging with a world they know is built on moral wrongness. How do you justify buying a new pair of shoes when you know they were likely made by underpaid factory workers? How do you come to terms with putting gas in your car knowing it's another cog in a larger, harder machine working to further pollute the earth. And maybe it feels a little ridiculous to compare your FUN VIDEO GAME to these moral questions, but at the end of the day, it's not just about IDV. How do you engage with any video-game, knowing that the people behind it are burnt out and underpaid? How do you watch movies, knowing that the companies behind them screw their workers out of their residuals and healthcare. And the thing is. I don't actually have an answer for this, either! These are questions people much smarter and much more involved in activism spaces have been asking since long before I've been alive. Sometimes, the most you can do is sit back and acknowledge the flaws of the thing you love, and sometimes those flaws will be a deal breaker for people and sometimes they won't. The most I can personally do is encourage people to not burn themselves sitting on that guilt by talking more about the aspects of the media they love, and try and encourage them to focus more on what makes it worth staying in the game and with the community despite it's flaws.

All of this is to say. Lmao. Man. I've thought about this just as much as you have, and I do get it. I think with all of that established, what I wish for more then anything was that people DID focus more on what they like about the game and stopped putting it through this lens of "The game and characters as in canon is inferior to what I can do with them"

Like I've joked about that before - But I don't actually think I'm a better writer than IDV. The image of IDV in my head isn't inherently superior to what IDV has going on. I think they have something incredibly interesting and unique going on with their setting and characters. I think the way they play into their victorian setting is FASCINATING, I think the way they handle their veteran characters is some of the best I've seen in any media. And like - I'll admit that I'm prone to being overly critical about Certain Writing choices, but at the end of the say I'm able to acknowledge that the reason for that is that I do love the aspects of the game I do. And I wish we didn't have to hide it behind this performance of "Ugh, FUCK this game" to appreciate what about the characters and story we do like, yknow?

The gacha element… yeah thats more insidious, and something even I personally still have trouble getting around when recommending it to people. I find loot box systems to be an overall nasty aspect of the modern gaming industry - Unlike a lot of the stuff regarding it's writing and presentation, I think the gambling aspect of the game can be very PROACTIVELY dangerous to people, and I feel bad knowing that people could have a very real issue with it. But thats the other unfortunate thing. It IS an unavoidable aspect of the modern gaming industry. If a game has online elements, it PROBABLY has some kind of lootbox system. And there's no like. I don't think that one is something that needs dissected like everything else - I think we need stronger laws for videogames including gaming in its core game. But thats neither here note there, and I don't think IDV is uniquely evil for including it. It's just something to warn people about when introducing them to the game.

[papirouge]

You know about predictive programming? Lately I’ve noticed how video games always show the futuristic city with East Asian influences like with languages and designs of buildings. im wondering if this a message for the west to prepare that their influence will fall to other countries like China?

Because of globalization. They're paving the way for the end of national borders and cultural mixing.

Have you see Cyberpunk 2077 where the city looks like a mix of Los Angeles, Beijing and Tokyo? There's also a HUGE transhumanism agenda in the game.

I find this aesthetic a bit tired tbh (I hate big cities). But l think it's funny to see Westerners feeling iffy about seeing foreign influence in their media (aesthetically or in term of narrative) when the West has been shoving its ideology onto the rest of the world for centuries..... Ultimately it's just the pendulum going back to kick their butts.

Conservatives and anti are coping & seething by the increasing visibility of non Whites characters but this phenomenon can actually be explained by the fact that more and more people from NON WHITE countries are getting access to media & entertainment. Production companies naturally have to find a way to attract those demographics for the $$$.

People acting like all of this was just rootless propaganda/wokism are just oblivious to this very rational dynamic, or rather are simply biased, and hellbent to act like victims (of what? they will never be able to answer this question LOL).

I don't like China like that but the automatic suspicion/paranoia -if not full on xenophobia- regarding anything coming from this country is ridiculous (I'll never forget the shady "ban TikTok" campaign, only for the same idiots who ran with it so long it was an opportunity to dunk on the evil Chinese communist app to realize they actually participated in a psyop aiming to pave the way for the a new law seeking to censor the whole internet lmao 🤡)

[wannabe-cartoonist-blog]

Historical Notes for “What Was I Made For” video

DISCLAIMER/TRIGGER WARNING: HISTORICAL HETALIA. Allusions/references to wars and politics, including current events are made. None of these references are made In mockery or meant to diminish these events, but to acknowledge them. That being said, these characters are fictional, but a lot of the scenes depicted here are based upon real facts + events. As always, please take everything with a grain of salt.

- Up until the global Great Depression following WW1, Liechtenstein was off on her own being a fabulous little nation with lots of castles and culture and history. WW1 monetarily ruined Liechtenstein though and their economy was never able to recover on their own. Then Switzerland stepped forward to supply monetary and military support. To this day, Liechtenstein is still closely guarded/monitored by Switzerland. I obviously alluded to those famous scenes from the anime here (the scene where Liechtenstein collapses and when she cuts her hair to be like Switzy + when she gets the ribbon from Switzy).

- Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, and parts of South Italy were all under the rule of Spain’s Habsburg House. From 1556-1771, Belgium remained under Spain’s rule. Eventually, the Netherlands fought for its independence from Spain with the Eighty Years War lasting from 1568-1648. For the video, I had Belgium view it at her little family breaking apart. (Though Belgium’s bid for independence wasn’t too far behind, and Belgium would then be under the Netherlands’ rule until 1830). Finally, Belgium got shafted a LOT during WW1 + 2. Poor girl went through it. Wish we got more WW2 stories with her in it, as Belgium was a vital area in the Western Front; the Germans had to go through Belgium before they got to France.

- The island of Taiwan gained independence from Japan in 1952. Before that, it had spent much time under China (it was taken by the Japanese when they were doing their whole little empire thing). When China turned communist in 1949, the old Chinese government fled to Taiwan. So, in this video, I had her be an “ideal” old world China in that sense (at least to the Taiwanese). In this video, during a parade, Taiwan notices a little girl and her father, and it causes her to morn her lost childhood (which you don’t really get when you’re a nation). The car scene is based on President Eisenhower’s (US) visit to Taiwan in 1960.

- Seychelles was founded in the 18th century. Prior to Europeans bringing enslaved people there, there were no inhabitants. Seychelles was owned by France for a long time until it was surrendered to Britain in 1811. Poor girl’s probably got a heavier dose of identity crisis/imposter syndrome than most nations. Though she’s doing pretty well for herself today: in 1976, Seychelles gained independence from Great Britain.

- I inarguably do not know much about Monaco as a character + country, as she could have a number of origins. Like did she not exist until the Grimaldi family established there in 1215? Or was she still around as a personification when the Romans were there? Without a doubt though, France is the foreign power that has had the most influence on Monaco. It has claimed it then later recognized its independence a few times now, between all of France’s different Kings and Emperors. I think Monaco, for all intents and purposes, is France’s “sister”. In my fanon, she came to exist when Phonecia colonized it in the 6th century, then it was taken by Rome, but she later becomes a colony of the Republic of Genoa (Italy), then later France, then a brief stint with Spain, then France again… Monaco gained independence in 1861, though to this day, it is militarily defended by France (so sorta a similar relationship to Switzerland-Liechtenstein, here, hence the sibling headcanon). I think Monaco views the Italys as cousins of a sort and France as a sort of pseudo big brother. Spain is some guy she lived with/who protected her/a potential love interest, idk.

- Vietnam is another country with a long rich history of their own, but for a long time, they’re been forced under the influence of foreign powers. For this video, I decided to alluded to the Vietnam War, fought by the Capitalist United States (America) + South Vietnam and the Communist Soviet Union (Russia) + North Vietnam. Civil Wars are messy and confusing when it comes to this fandom, let me tell ya… Though without a doubt, this was a time of immense conflict for her.

- Oh man the countries that exist as females in canon so they can not-gay marry another man, you own my whole heart. That’s right, I’m talking about you, Hungary and Czechia. Both these ladies have a long history of being badass warriors. In Hungary’s case, she even canonically crossdressed/thought she was a boy. I imagine that even after she went through puberty and realized her true gender, she still crossdressed to be taken seriously. But of course, she later marries Austria and becomes a bit of a housemaid. That’s so sad. Let my girl fight. I imagine that Czechia would crossdress too (I imagine a lot of female nations do, especially in times of war) before she would later marry Slovakia. I also think that even though Hungary and Czechia both love their ex-husbands and understand they’re in a similar bind with the arranged political marriages, they still long for the times before they were placed in a box based on their gender/nationhood. (On an almost unrelated note: I love the himbo/useless boyfriend Slovakia we see in the anime, 12/10 content).

- Often in the fandom, Belarus is pretty one-note in her devotion to Russia and her distain for anyone else. But I imagine that Belarus is actually quite a complex character who often questions where her loyalties lie. Belarus used to be part of the kingdom of Lithuania-Poland, where I imagine for a time she was happy until she wanted to be on her own/back with her family. Then it was part of the USSR. Then it left the USSR and was creating ties with capitalist America, her brother’s sworn enemy. I imagine Belarus has always been loyal to her brother, but in the 90s she sorta gets all turned around when the Union collapses and has to rethink everything she thought she knew. Obviously, her path leads her back to her brother, as Russia and Belarus still have strong political ties to this day.

- Finally, we have Ukraine which has a long history of terrible things happening to it via another country. I contemplated whether or not to include such current, sensitive subjects. But, this is history we’re witnessing, and so I decided to include an allusion to the present war in Ukraine. Ukraine is another character in the show/fandom who is often portrayed pretty one-note as just a devote matriarch to her family/brother. Obviously, especially with the current political climate and the relationship between the actual countries of Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus, that’s pretty bullshit/insensitive. I imagine that for the nations, there is a healthy dose of disconnect between them and politics; the countries usually represent the PEOPLE of the country, not the political/governmental parties, in my mind - they’re still their own people with their own feelings and relationships - but I definitely feel like (the characters of) Ukraine and Russia’s relationship has been strained since the 90s (probably even the 80s, since Chernobyl).

This blog supports a free Ukraine. 💙🇺🇦💛

[xtruss]

Former French Prime Minister: We Need To Replace Confrontation And Conflict With Peace

— Su Yaxuan and Wang Zixuan | July 06, 2024

Former French Prime Minister Dominique De Villepin. Photo Credit: Su Yaxuan/Global Times

"Because of the insecurity of the world, the movement of 'derisking' might continue. One of the important factors we should have in mind is the fact that the political input may create a situation, not only of tension, but of partition of globalization," former French prime minister Dominique De Villepin told the Global Times at a press conference. We hope to live in a "more stable and secure world," he said.

The opening ceremony of the 12th World Peace Forum (WPF) was held at Tsinghua University on Saturday. The theme of this year's WPF is "Improving Global Security Governance: Justice, Unity, and Cooperation."

"One of the biggest difficulties for the world today is to show that there is an alternative to confrontation. This has to be shown concerning peace," De Villepin said.

He noted that all the crises facing the world today are deadly. If wars continue to escalate, they could become global wars, which could bring destructive risks to the entire planet. The urgent task is to resolve, predict, and control various crises, such as the Ukraine crisis, the Gaza crisis, and so on. He urged at the opening ceremony to maintain our reputation by avoiding double standards in dealing with the Gaza crisis.

In addition to "Peace," another word frequently referenced by De Villepin is "cooperation." When asked about the "overcapacity" issue and current trade protectionism in Europe, the former French leader called for a win-win situation through cooperation between countries. He noted that we should work together and try again to set new situation in which we will show the possibility of finding solutions.

"There is a strong leadership that China has on some technologies like electric cars and solar panels. They are more technically advanced and they are cheaper in most of the time. And that explains why they are so competitive and why they create fear. That's why we should try to find the best way for everybody to get benefits from these new trends," he added.

Recently, during the visit of Chinese leaders to France, it was announced that China has decided to extend visa exemption entry for citizens from more countries, including France, on short-term visits to China until the end of 2025, which is a new effort by China to further open-up and strengthen cooperation with other countries.

Regarding the visa-free policy, the former French prime minister said: "I believe that encouraging tourism and encouraging foreign students to go and visit another country is something decisive. In Europe, we've been testing what are the policy that have been working the best in the last years, and I think this is the key for tomorrow."

This year marks the 60th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and France and is also the China-France Year of Culture and Tourism.

He said, "when you don't know a country, of course, you have what's written in the press, but in many regards, sometimes it is not always the reality of a foreign country that is expressed. So you need to see by yourself." De Villepin stressed that this would change the global mentality and create direct links.

France was one of the first Western countries to establish diplomatic relations with China, and both countries have ancient civilizations. "We know that Europeans in China hope for peaceful relations between the two sides, and we must respond to this demand and further explore the possibilities of cooperation and success," De Villepin said.

[absolutebl]

And there it is again: In the first episode of Love in the Air, our young hero's buddy compliments him by saying he's handsome, that he "looks like Korean actor."

I've caught just enough of these references in my first year of BL viewing to realize that it's "a thing": Korea is the gold standard of ... something ... to other SE Asians ? Do I have that right ? If so, the ideal of what, exactly ?

Astro’s Eunwoo is generally considered/discussed as the perfect example of Korean masculine beauty. 

10 Korean Male Beauty Ideals

The checklist of Korean masculine beauty standards (as of 2022) is as follows: 

over 183cm (6″+) 

slim/skinny build but toned body (we talking swimmer over bodybuilder) 

a “small face” 

pale skin 

dark defined eyebrows

a smaller mouth

high cheekbones

v shaped or sharp jaw line 

double eyelids & bigger eyes 

high nose bridge 

Plastic surgery is often utilized to attain the final three in particular.* 

Add to the above the global procreative breeding standards for “healthy” masculinity such as: symmetry in face and form, broad shoulders, clear skin. 

SF9′s Rowoon is a great example of an idol successfully transitioning to leading man. He meets all 10 standards and is v tall at 190.5 or about 6″3. 

A Bit About Idols & Beauty Standards 

The visual of the idol group is (usually) the one who meets the most of the above checklist + photographs particularly well. As opposed to the center who is usually the best allrounder and/or most charismatic performer. Ironically the face of a group is usually the best representative in terms of communication and popularity style (handling fans + the press). But idols can/do hold more than one position in a group. 

Position distinctions are becoming less popular in 4th gen Kpop groups. While position assignments, including those based explicitly on Korean beauty standards, were pretty much expected of 3rd gen group formation. 

Idols “visual” judgement tends to be decided upon and called via the same standards as above checklist, but they are permitted to be more androgynous by branding than if they were leading man Kdrama actors.

That said, idols tend to transition to acting if they can meet more of the above named standards (and want to act, of course), specifically height. They will probably never get to play leading men if they don’t meet the height standard so that’s usually the biggest hurdle (pun intended) - except for if they do BL. Of course, there are exceptions if the idol is an extremely good actor or very very famous. My bias, Jinyoung, is short to be an actor, for example. He still gets rolls but it will always be harder for him to play a grown up leading man in a romance Kdrama than someone like Rowoon or Eunwoo.  

GOT7′s Jinyoung in Devil Judge 

How Does this Work Outside of Korea? 

Hallyu has had a profound effect on taste not just in other parts of Asia, but globally. But you asked about Asia.

Here’s a very good YT vid on the subject which basically is focused on women and China, but still addresses why Asian Beauty standards are the way they are culturally & historically. 

So when an Asian country (particularly in the south) calls a character “handsome like a Korean actor” that is code for particularly distinguishing the character as handsome by virtue of his “non local” features: like paleness and tallness. (Thailand also does this with reference to western beauty standards. Both Dean in UWMA and Tharn in TharnType are commented on/called out for/self identify as being handsome due in part to their “foreign” features, but the Thai word used is slang for a “foreigner of European decent.”) 

TharnType 2

Because of the popularity of both Kdramas and Kpop, Korean beauty standards are coming to dominate taste at least amongst specific age brackets of consumers/watchers and in countries where Kdramas and Kpop are particularly popular. In these case, the 10 point check list above comes into play when you get a comment like the ones we see in Thai BL. 

That said, Chinese beauty standards (somewhat different) are also in play in the culture itself (for primarily socio-political and historical reasons, so more prevalent amongst older generations, and places that were occupied by China or have intimate social-political relations with it, like Taiwan), as well as western standards (blame colonialism, Hollywood, and the fashion industry). Taiwan is an interesting case since it has intimate ties on all levels with China, Japan, S Korean, and the west, so their beauty standards are particularly varied. 

Japanese beauty standards (which used to dominate many parts of Asian because they cornered the market on music initially *waves at 90s Jpop* as well as manga, animation, cinema, and porn prior to Hallyu not to mention the whole, ya know, empire thing) have experienced significant pushback in the last 20 years, particularly from Korea. That said, their standards still hold pretty strongly within Japan (of course). They are a lot less formal and proscriptive. But, loosely, Japan tends to like a softer face shape, heavier jaw, and wider mouth and be less concerned about extreme tallness. They do love big eyes though. NCT’s Yuta is a pretty good example of one type of Japanese masculine beauty standard. But Japan has more than one. Remember the culture concept of kawaii is in play. Aka men are also allowed to be cute as a form of sexiness. 

Old Fashion Cupcake 

* Yes, I am well aware this is a terrible unachievable bullshit. I am answering the question not making a judgement call. 

Finally: 

Like most beauty standards, these are the result of classism, racism, and colonial occupational history. Not to mention trends, styles, permissive fetishization, gender binary, infantilization, and core linguistic symbolism and syntax around the meaning of worlds used to define and talk about beauty. 

I’m discussing this shizz from a cultural anth and pop culture analysts perspective. Don’t come at me in the comments because you possess the sadly ubiquitous inability to critically think about your own cultural biases and how these might impact your consumption of a different culture’s pop product. My patience is wearing thin and my ban hammer is immediate these days. 

(source) 

[writingwithcolor]

Jewish author writing about antisemitism; should I include racism too?

anonymous asked:

Hi! I'm a white Jewish person who's writing a story set in a fantasy world with a Jewish-coded culture. It's important to me to explore antisemitism in this distanced setting, and explore what the Jewish diaspora means to me. I have a lot of people of color in my story as well. I don't know whether I, as a white person, should include racism in a story if it isn't necessary, but I also don't want to erase the aspects of many mildly/moderately assimilated cultures that are affected by racism, and I also don't want to imply somehow that antisemitism is a more serious issue than racism, which is obviously not the case. I was thinking that bigotry might be more culture-based rather than ethnically or racially based, but again, I'm not sure how or whether to write about bigotry against cultures + groups based on cultures + groups that I'm not a part of, and people of color in the story would obviously have their own cultural elements. Is acknowledging bigotry necessary?

It's okay to focus on antisemitism

Other mods have important advice on what exactly might be helpful or applicable to include in your story and how. I want to take a moment with the anxiety you express that focusing on antisemitism and not talking about other types of xenophobia will imply to your readers that you think antisemitism is “more serious” than other forms of bigotry. I hear and honor that anxiety, especially since “Jews only care about Jews” is a stereotype that never seems to go away, so I’m going to say something revolutionary:

It’s okay to center Jews in a story about antisemitism.

There, I said it. But I’m not making the case that you shouldn’t include references to or depictions of other types of bigotry in your story. There are a lot of great reasons why you should, because of what it can do for the complexity of your characters, the depth of your worldbuilding, or the strength of your message about the nature of xenophobia, diaspora, etc.

- How your non-Jewish-coded characters react to the things they experience can affect whether they sympathize over or contribute to the antisemitism at the heart of your story.

- How other types of xenophobia do and don’t manifest in your world can help explain why your world has antisemitism in the first place, and what antisemitism consists of in a world that also contains other minorities outside of the fantasy mainstream culture.

- Including other real-world xenophobia can help you set your antisemitism in context and contrast to help explain what you want to say about it.

Both your story and your message might be strengthened by adding these details. But if you feel the structure of your story doesn’t have room for you to show other characters’ experiences and you’re only considering doing it because you’re afraid you’ll be upholding a negative stereotype of yourself if you don’t, then it might help to realize that if someone is already thinking that, nothing you do is going to change their mind. You can explore antisemitism in your story, but you don’t have the power to solve it, and since you don’t have that power you also don’t have that responsibility. I think adding more facets to your story has the potential to make it great, but leaving it out doesn’t make you evil.

- Meir

Portraying xenophobia

As someone living in Korea and therefore usually on the outside looking in, I feel that a lot of people in Western countries tend to conflate racism and xenophobia. Which does make sense since bigots tend to not exactly care about differences between the two but simply act prejudiced against the “other”. Sci also makes a point below about racialized xenophobia. I feel these are factors contributing to your confusion regarding issues of bigotry in your story.

Xenophobia, as defined by Dictionary.com, is “an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of foreigners, people from different cultures, or strangers”. You mention “thinking that bigotry might be more culture-based”, and this description fits xenophobia better than most other forms of bigotry. Xenophobia can be seen as an umbrella term including antisemitism, so you are technically including one form of xenophobia through your exploration of antisemitism.

I understand your wariness of writing racism when it doesn’t add to the plot, especially as a white writer. Your concerns that you might “erase the aspects of many mildly/moderately assimilated cultures that are affected by racism” is valid and in fact accurate, since exclusion of racism will of course lead to lack of portrayals of the intersections between racism and xenophobia. I want to reassure you that this is not a bad thing, just a choice you can make. No one story (or at least, no story that can fit into one book) can include all the different forms of oppression in the world. Focusing on one particular form of oppression, particularly one you have personal experience with, is a valid and important form of representation.

You also comment that you “don't want to imply somehow that antisemitism is a more serious issue than racism”, but I honestly feel that doesn’t need too much concern. Much like how queerness and disability are two separate issues with intersections, racism and xenophobia form a Venn diagram, with large intersections but neither completely including the other. A story focusing on autistic characters that doesn’t also have queer rep doesn’t imply queer issues are less serious. Likewise, a story focusing on antisemitism doesn’t imply racism is less serious.

I am slightly more concerned that there might be an accidental implication of antisemitism being a more serious issue compared to other forms of xenophobia. Of course, exploring antisemitism alone is completely valid representation, and there’s no need to go out of your way to try and portray other forms of xenophobia. A microaggression or two, or maybe a mutual bitch out session with a gentile but marginalized friend should be enough to show that antisemitism isn’t more (or less) serious compared to other forms of xenophobia.

-Rune

Avoiding racialized xenophobia

I think one thing you have to be careful with here is racialized xenophobia. Are your characters of color getting disproportionately more xenophobia than your white characters? You might be falling into the trap of racialized xenophobia, which falls under racism, which you want to avoid. An example would be “all Chinese scientists are untrustworthy, but not you, you’re one of the ‘good ones.’” Although this is technically xenophobia, it is also racism.

--Mod Sci

In the case you choose to include even small snippets of other forms of xenophobia in your story, attempting to portray xenophobia without the complications of racism can be a difficult process when they often go hand in hand (especially to a Western audience). So here are a couple of suggestions I have of portraying xenophobia without racism.

First and the simplest method is portraying xenophobia between people of the same race. For example, there is definitely xenophobia against Chinese and Japanese people in Korea, but it would be difficult to claim there is a racial component when all of us are East Asian. (Something you might want to be aware of here is intersections with colorism, where even within the same race, lighter skin and other more westernized features are considered more desirable. I suggest looking through our colorism tag for more details)

Another idea is to include microaggressions for specific cultures rather than something more broad. For example, calling Korean food stinky because kimchi has a strong scent is specifically xenophobic against Koreans, while commenting on small eyes can be directed against Asians in general.

Finally, while antisemitism is a form of ethnicity-based xenophobia, it is also a form of religion-based xenophobia. Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus can absolutely be xenophobic against each other with no racism involved. Should you choose this method, particularly if religious xenophobia is only shown in a shorter scene, I suggest you try and avoid portraying any of the above religions as the Bad or Oppressive ones. As a Christian I will unironically tell you that Christianity is a safe choice for a religiously xenophobic character, as we’re far less likely to face backlash compared to any other religion, and inspiration should unfortunately be overflowing in real life.

-Rune

Other forms of ethno-religious oppression

Here is my TCK perspective as someone brought up in diverse environments where there are often other axes of oppression including religion, ethnicity and class:

Racism and xenophobia can definitely be apples to oranges, so creating a universe where racism no longer exists or has never existed seems doable to me. Perhaps in your fantasy world, structures that buttress racism, such as colonization, slavery and imperialism, are not issues. That still won’t stop people from creating “Us versus Them” divisions, and you can certainly make anti-semitism one of the many forms of xenophobia that exists in this your story. Meir has hinted that your reluctance to declaratively show the harm of anti-semitism indicates a level of anxiety around the topic, and, as someone non-Jewish but also not Christian or Muslim, my perspective is as follows: I’ve always viewed anti-semitism as a particularly virulent form of ethno-religious xenophobia, and while it is a unique experience, it is not the only unique experience when it comes to ethno-religious xenophobia. I think because the 3-way interaction between the Abrahamic religions dominates much of Western geopolitics, that can be how it looks, but the world is a big place (See Rune’s comments for specific examples).

To that effect, I recommend prioritizing anti-semitism alongside other non-racialized forms of xenophobia along ideological, cultural and class-based lines for both POC and non-POC characters. Show how these differences can drive those in power to treat other groups poorly. I conclude by encouraging you to slowly trace your logic when depicting xenophobia towards POC characters in particular. Emphasize bigotry along axes of class and ideology, rather than traits linked to assumed biologically intrinsic features. Ultimately, I think recognizing commonalities between forms of ethno-religious oppression as a whole will help make you more comfortable in depicting anti-semitism with the seriousness it deserves without feeling as though you are trivializing the experiences of other groups.

- Marika

Worldbuilding ethnically and racially diverse cultures

As has been mentioned by other mods, I think it’s completely fine to focus your story on antisemitism and not portray other forms of bigotry if that’s the focus and scope of the story you want to tell. My fellow mods have also offered several valuable suggestions for writing about “culture-based bigotry” in general if that’s what you want to do, while making sure it’s not coming off as racially based. One element I can add is that from a worldbuilding standpoint, it will also help to have your fantasy cultural groups be ethnically and racially diverse. After all, this was common historically in several parts of the world, and depending on which cultures you’re basing your coding on, you could absolutely have fantasy cultures in your world that include characters we would read (according to our modern-day standards) as white, and others that we would read as people of color, within the same fantasy culture. All these characters would face the same culture-based bigotry (such as xenophobia or religious oppression), even though they are read by a modern audience as different races.

As a note, the reason I say “read as” and “according to our modern-day standards” is that the entire concept of whiteness as we know it is very specific to our current cultural context. Who is and isn’t considered white has changed quite a lot over time, and is still the subject of debate today in some cases. Your work will be read by a modern audience, so of course, you need to take into account our current understanding of race and the dynamics surrounding it. However, it’s also helpful to remember that our modern racial categories are fairly new in the context of the many millennia of history of humankind, and that they are certainly not inevitable. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking a fantasy culture has to align itself entirely with modern-day racial categories.

- Niki

[rametarin]

^ This is one important fucking assed distinction and I'm happy it was brought up.

On its face, "refusing to draw black people" sounds like a terribly discriminatory act. And, technically, if you refuse to draw black people because you don't like them or think they're ugly, it is. However, there's perfectly valid reasons for not doing so, sometimes.

For example, say the world is set in a sphere like 100 AD China. There's nothing bigoted or prejudiced about going, "This time period and this setting and this social culture is solidly Chinese." You may have similarly Asian minority cultures around that culturally oriented story, but you aren't obligated to add them. You are under no obligation to just make black, or Indo-European, characters in a Chinese story.

And similarly, a story taking place in pre-Western Settlement Americas, South or North. The lies and fantasy that black people went around sailing the world before anybody else and depositing sweet potatoes globally is black supremacist revisionist myth. Stories and lore and culture derived from those times have every reason to be more monoethnicentric.

And by that same token, when we INEVITABLY get comics, cartoons and novels written more commonly and frequently by native African continentals from the many nations where black people are and always have been THE ethnic and hereditary majority and aboriginal people, it isn't prejudiced or bigoted for them to feature stories where nobody but black people appear as the protagonists.

Some of us don't want to re-draw someone that is not black, to be black. That's 100% not the same thing as wanting to draw black characters as black and Asian/European characters as they were intended. That enormous list of specifically redheads that were targeted specifically because they're a very keratinously distinct kind of (usually) white person, comes to mind.

Add in the fact that in the past, trying to draw people with whom you aren't familiar was like playing minesweeper; you could be made an example of, antagonized and mocked as an example of a "teachable moment" unless you not only knew how to draw the variation of other peoples features and characteristics, but draw them cute and/or the diversity of the slider from ugly to pretty. And then any failure you make in this arena being chalked up to bigotry and hatred or general assumed malice, because the people looking for a poster child for "that conversation" are really trying to establish that a person is racist until proven a ally if they aren't drawing peoples ethnic characteristics good enough (and are not themselves of that genetic group- where their failures to render their own people is just bad art, not considered bigotry.)

People will tell me, "You're white; opinion discarded. You're overrepresented anyway." White is also one of the many varieties of human being on earth, so I do get a say. And yes, if you can imagine a scenario where your skin tone and hereditary "people" (shorthand for organization and community by race) are supposedly entitled to this nebulous, "representation," then by god, white people would count in that category as expecting representation in media where we are not the majority, same as black people. And I don't read Japanese manga or foreign literature asking, "where are the white people in this?" Because the idea you read some other culture that may intrinsically be linked to their ethnic and aboriginal origins and ask, "so where're the people that look like me?" is just so.. conceited and self-absobed. It's a gross mentality and entitlement. Like your hereditary bloodline and ethnic group is entitled to someone elses romantic headspace and identity.

Admittedly if your work is set in a modern-ish earth world and doesn't have diversity if it covers a large area, that is a little suspicious. But, not damning. There are places in the US where homogenous ethnic stories can happen. Black majority parts of cities, much of Atlanta, Georgia. Some states that are literally 90+% white. But outside this specific setting, no one should be or feel obligated to draw anyone of any specific racial or ethnic background.

Fascinating how many people think saying "but some of us dont Want to draw black people" doesn't sound horrendously racist

[three--rings]

Dear Fellow Non-Chinese Fans in the MDZS/The Untamed fandom:

Y’all are acting a fool again. 

And I’m tired of it, but not like my friends of Chinese descent are tired.  To me, seeing people be ignorant and deliberately hurtful is mildly annoying and frustrating.  To them, it’s just the latest wound in a lifetime of them.

(Note: I’m not gonna get into specifics for a lot of reasons.  If you know, you know, and if you don’t, then what I have to say should still be meaningful.)

Look, I’ve been in fandom over 20 years.  A lot of different fandoms.  I’ve seen so many fandom fights, both over trivial shit and over serious issues.  I’ve seen huge, sprawling discussions and fights over racism time and time again.  I’ve seen fandom as a whole try to do better and also slip up and fail.   This is not my first international fandom, not my first time in a fandom based on the cultural product of a culture entirely foreign to me.

So I understand the argument that “this is just what fandom does”.  “We take stories and twist them around and remake them.”  And yeah, people are always going to take characters in That Thing They Like and write about them going to their own middle school or working in the coffee shop around the corner, or attending Hogwarts.  And those of us who don’t care for those AUs can avoid those stories.

But let’s talk about imperialism for a second.  Let’s talk about colonialism.  Because I think those are good words to use for the topic at hand.  Because the entire idea of imperialistic appropriation is when one culture goes into another culture’s home, takes the bits they like and leaves.  Whether it’s Spanish conquistadors taking all the gold they can find from the Incas or Aztecs or the Western European Orientalists of the 19th century using opium to negotiate beneficial trade agreements for the literal products of Chinese culture, it’s all imperialism.  It’s all the same basic concept: you have something I think is shiny and I want it, so I’m going to just take it and then enjoy it out of context.

So maybe, when seen in that light, we can see how a Western (mostly white) audience discovering a Chinese piece of media en masse, borrowing the characters and the parts they like (cute boys gazing longingly at each other), but ignoring the parts they don’t understand (the cultural and religious context of the story), ESPECIALLY when they simultaneously spend a lot of time DENIGRATING the original novel and its author using racist stereotypes...well it all starts to fit the same pattern.

Look, I was as uneducated and ignorant about Xianxia and Wuxia and Chinese web novels and danmei and cdramas as the next clueless white American.  But that was over two years ago now.  I sat back and followed a lot of Chinese diaspora people, I read so, so many metas, I’ve expanded my intake of media to other Chinese media in various forms, etc.  I’ve participated in discussions on this topic and I’ve learned. 

When The Untamed first aired and then a couple months later when it went on Netflix, there was a rush of new fans to the fandom.  That was exciting!  A lot of people didn’t understand a lot of context for the show, and got things wrong, but that was okay because they were new. 

But then something happened I hadn’t been expecting.  A lot of the new fans decided to willfully reject the greater context of The Untamed.  They refused to read the novel and attacked the author.  They denigrated fans of the novel and those who had been in the fandom before them.  They cloaked their willful ignorance of cultural context in moral high-ground on false pretenses. 

So now, when you want to play in the MDZS sandbox, but you want to ignore the Chinese cultural aspects of the world and the characters, that exists in the larger context of the fandom.  You’re taking the shiny products of another culture and remaking them in your own image rather than taking the time and effort to do justice to the original cultural context.

Taking characters that are a different race from you, a different religion and then making them the same as you?  Yeah, that’s problematic.  Especially when there has been a dearth of representation in Western media of that particular identity.  And a moment of reflection will show you this is so if you imagine doing that to a Black character that you make white, or a Muslim character you make Christian. It’s even true when you do it to make them into another, different minority.  (BTW this IS a fandom issue I’ve seen before.  Another fandom I’m in has a canonically Black character that some people have depicted as Asian and There Was Discourse.)

Fandom is transformative, yes.  That’s what we, as fandom creators do.  And I believe there are sensitive ways to blend cultures to make something new and exciting.   As I said elsewhere, it’s far more interesting and respectful to use your own cultural touchstones to comment and reflect on canon rather than to impose your own identity and image on another culture’s creations.

To return to a random example I mentioned above, yes you can have Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji go to Hogwarts, and no one is going to really get mad at you about it.  But I think it’s far more interesting to ask the question: what would a magical school look like in the canon MDZS setting?  How would the structure of the Harry Potter novels work with those characters and setting?  If the Cloud Recesses was an actual school for cultivation and Wei Wuxian was going to go live there for years and face occasional evil threats...

Ask what can I BRING to this cultural product rather than what can I TAKE from it.  What can my particular knowledge and experience bring to the party rather than how can I twist this into a shape I’m familiar with?

I beg my fellow creators to ask these questions and maybe we’ll all reduce the amount of unthinking imperialism and colonialism in fandom. 

[papirouge]

Whenever I see people talking about how some countries are in decline due to low natality, and then search their politics on issues like abortion I actually hope that these countries do stop existing and that ones that do value life end up being created. Also reading about Japan's past w this was gut churning

Yeah since I do understand japanese I sometimes browse their forum/SNS and it's insane the amount of women saying a child is just too expensive to have one. Japan's population is declining and aging like crazy and the dim newer generation has to bear the weight of this aging population. Many people complain their country is ruled by oldheads who are out of touch with reality. IDK if you followed up the fiasco of the Tokyo Olympics and how the Olympics bureau screwed up the initial (and quite promising) ceremony plan for a much more austere and boring ceremony (sure C0vîd changed their plans, but what was the point to straight up cancel the entertainers presence when they could simply reduce the scale/budget of their performence?).

Shit happening in Japan is very distopic and wicked and the only ppl hyping this country are racialist rightoids raving about muh crimeless ethnostate wet dream and weebs who think Japan is like anime and want to live there as rootless plants living their Yamato Japan dream à la PewDiePie who's finally settled there....only to hang out with White gaijin 💀 lmao But beside these idiots, hardly anyone wants to live through such a demographic nightmare.

I've always said Japanese entertainment culture being so rich was a cope of an IRL lifestyle that was bleak and unfulfilling. And now this whole anime/manga culture has made its way here bc the Western world is undergoing the same societal collapse that Japan did a few decades before (social isolation, gaming, parasocial relationships becoming the norm over social ones, etc.).

People with fulfilling life don't watch anime/do gaming for hours once they get home or dress up as fictional characters half their age.. (especially when 99% of these shows are stupid and intellectually regressive). This self indulgence is why many adults today behave like children and become degenerates. I got so much shit for saying that, but an anime fan over 25 years old has something wrong with them. Casual watching is ok but being obsessive with that culture is mental deficiency in action.

And yes, Japan History esp during WWII is sketchy but they have this sort of revisionism where they act like nothing much happened. It's highkey creepy to see the amount of japanese words coming straight from German (アルバイト, ワッペン etc. ) when you know the context of how this happened... 🥴 and let's not talk about the weird SS uniform memorabilia in Visual Kei They've become the submissive USA lackey post war though so I guess they made a deal to not get much trouble for that👀. I had a Chinese friend of mine who despised Japan and I think that's also the case of Koreans. Those countries mutually hate each other since centuries now anyway. Not surprised to see Westerners aligning themselves with Japan when Japan has the same history of colonialism and cultural & racial supremacism. Imperialists countries have this weird fellowship around the evilness they did lol

Even when browsing on japanese SNS I'm shocked by the casual racism of Japanese netizens especially against continental Asians. They had a field day during c0vîd dragging the Chinese, and whenever a public figure gets in trouble they happen to get suspicious about some supposed foreign ancestry ("this person always looked kinda foreign..."). Japanese netizens HATE Kiko Mizuhara because she doesn't have japanese blood (she's half Korean half USAmerican) yet immigrated in Japan with her (Korean) mom while still a baby and has become one of the most successful supermodel in Japan and oversea, but it doesn't stop them from calling her a foreigner and telling how she can't properly pull off the kimono cause she's not a pure japanese breed this kuso Zainichi imposter ùwú. I even saw one send shots at Kana Oya because she's half Japanese half Brazilian and call her a "poor Brazilian" (poor as in "no money" since Brazil is indeed a poor country but how does any of that relates to Kana personally..?). They have this weird obsession to use someone foreignness/mixedness as a diss. Interestingly, I hardly see them having the same energy against half White entertainers¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ (as long as they're not half Chinese or Korean ofc lol)

[hunxi-guilai]

Due to all the racism and imperialistic views westerners have towards Chinese media, do you think westerners should first educate themselves about Chinese culture and history before watching these dramas as to better understand the cultural differences? I have also seen some (rather rare) comments about white people just staying in their lane and not sticking their noses to what isn't made for them to begin with, but I find that a bit extreme (despite kinda being true.)

oh okay, we’re only doing easy questions on this blog now I see

let’s start with the more extreme take, because that’s easier for me to definitively say: no, I don’t think we should gatekeep people from media based on race or place of origin, because look, if we told westerners to keep their hands off of cmedia, then I’d be disqualified from consuming cmedia as well and that seems, well, a bit ironic

personally, I believe that shared media and narrative and storytelling is such a powerful generator of interest, curiosity, empathy, and knowledge, that to deliberately keep people out because they don’t understand the context or background or finer nuance of something will only feed that same ignorance that leads to further misunderstanding and dehumanizing of other cultures and traditions. Gatekeeping generally doesn’t benefit a diversifying audience, and tends to lead to a build-up of resentment and lack of understanding on both sides

and it’s unreasonable to demand that people, like, take an intro course or whatever before consuming media from another culture, because... 1) what would this intro course even look like, 2) that would honestly put a lot of people off who simply aren’t willing to make the effort (or don’t have the time/mental/emotional bandwidth to study up on something when they’re trying to relax), and 3) cmedia and cdramas are often excellent sources to study when you’re trying to learn more about these cultural differences, especially because there are a thousand little details that manifest in character interactions and quirks of dialogue that would never make it into a textbook

and honestly? I don’t think fandom has been that bad--discourse is inevitable, drama is inevitable, but (at least in my corner of fandom) people are willing to listen and learn, and the fact that people are actively asking me about tricky topics means that 1) they’re genuinely interested in learning more/improving themselves, and 2) this is an environment where they feel comfortable enough to do so

the really beautiful thing about media, I think, is the way it inspires people to go above and beyond, whether that’s watching LOTR at a formative age and deciding to get into archery, or stumbling onto a 50-episode show about a plucky necromancer in ahistoric fantasy China and deciding to Duolingo a whole new language. I always want to encourage people who are attempting to genuinely engage with foreign and unfamiliar texts, because we’re all broadening our horizons here, and I think that is both good and joyful work, and if we all keep in mind our own limited knowledge, biased perspectives, and the respect we should have for the source text and source culture, I see no reason why initial ignorance should be a reason to keep people from accessing these texts

that being said, we are running into discourse and racism in this fandom. there are feelings being hurt, deliberately or otherwise. and I can personally testify that it is incredibly exhausting to constantly take on the role of the tour guide, especially because it constantly places me (and many other diaspora/Chinese fans who put themselves out there in these Anglophone fandom spaces) in a position where we are likely to run into microaggressions and misguided takes. and look--I’m glad that people are trying to educate themselves, to make mistakes and learn from them, but being that guide for people takes time, and energy, and emotional labor

all of which is to say: people should be free to consume whatever media they want, but they should be sensitive and respectful of the context and creators, the intended audience and the subjectivity of perspective. especially when you’re consuming media that is based, so definitively and inextricably, in the fabric of another culture, it’s important to remember that you are a guest here, and to conduct yourself accordingly

(alternatively, read this statement on MDZS, diaspora, and cultural exchange, because it continues to be the most eloquent statement on the topic)

[audreydoeskaren]

In reference to your recent Hanfu questions you’ve received from people and cultural appropriation, I have a question: I genuinely want to know where the line is drawn between someone who has educated themselves on the cultural significance and taken time to ensure that they are wearing Chinese cultural clothing respectfully and for people who don’t, and how there will often be people (regardless of race, cultural identity, or national origin) who will take issue with someone who is white wearing said clothing, regardless of context. My partner of five years is Chinese, like, was born and raised in China, and I am a white woman from the USA. I speak Mandarin and have lived and studied in China. I never wore hanfu or qipaos before my boyfriend took me to a shop while in China and said he wanted to buy me one, that he had always wanted to see me in a qipao. Not once in China did anyone ever make a comment about me wearing my qipao when I was out with him on special occasions. The one time I wore it in the US, for an event he came with me to, I had people of multiple racial backgrounds get in my face and accuse me of appropriating Chinese culture just for wearing the dress, their reasoning being “it isn’t my culture” and “I’m not from China”. I read the additions to your recent analysis commenting on the role that racial tensions between countries play in this, and while racial tensions certainly exist and don’t help things, would that mean that even though I’ve taken extra care to wear a qipao (or other hanfu) appropriately and respectfully according to the advice of Chinese friends, family, and hanfu sellers in China before wearing it, that it would never appropriate for me as a white woman in the USA to wear a dress that my Chinese partner picked out for me just because other people are racist or prejudiced? I understand fully that cultural appropriation is a legitimate thing and that respect should always be shown to the culture or cultures involved, but there must be a line in the sand somewhere and I want to understand where so I can show respect at all times. Thank you.

tw racism

Hi, I think you could more or less piece the answer together from my previous replies, I'll just summarize here.

What you were doing doesn't sound like intentional cultural appropriation on your part, but it still came off as inappropriate to some people because of ethnic tensions in the US. I think a new conclusion I've come to in the past few days is that cultural appropriation is not just defined by what the person wearing the garment is doing, but also how it is observed (somewhat like quantum physics??); if nobody calls you out for it cultural appropriation isn't real but if somebody does, it is. There are myriad reasons as to why some Chinese people are not ok with white people wearing cheongsam, all of them are valid because of the legacy of colonialism and ongoing racism against Asians in the West. Never ever think that Asians are “too sensitive” for being offended and white people are entitled to wear cheongsam despite their complaints, it builds on a tradition of trivializing racism against Asians.

Since you've taken care to wear the garment properly, Chinese people within China wouldn't have a problem with it because 1) most people in China like it and are positively surprised when foreigners appreciate our culture 2) Han Chinese people are not oppressed in China by white people so there are no power dynamics involved. On top of that, a lot of people in China have never heard of the term cultural appropriation, so they don't have the words to describe something they might be potentially feeling.

However in the US it is a different context. Now, I don't know the ethnicities of the people who told you off for cultural appropriation, if none of them were of Chinese descent they had no right to lecture you on that?? They could point out to you that they felt like you were doing cultural appropriation, but at the end of the day if they were not Chinese they didn't have the power to decide whether it was ok. If some of them were Chinese however, you need to stop wearing cheongsam, at the very least not anymore in their presence. Respect for Chinese people always comes before respect for Chinese culture. Even though you had completely good intentions and just wanted to show appreciation for Chinese culture, it's always more worth it to honor the voices of local Chinese people than to defend yourself regarding cultural appropriation. It's not a matter of life and death for you if you don't wear a cheongsam, but it’s very detrimental to Chinese Americans if their opinions are dismissed; their complaints don't exist in a vacuum, but rather on top of a long history of oppression and abysmally bad representation of Chinese people in Western media.

So my two cents on your personal case is that you could wear cheongsam in China whenever you please since the locals are fine with it and you're also connected to Chinese culture via your studies and partner, but do refrain from wearing it in the US in a crowd that doesn’t just include your Chinese friends and family. You could try explaining to people that your partner is Chinese and encouraged you to wear it, but if they're still not sold on the idea, just wear something else next time, it's easier for everyone. This is not just about cultural appropriation but also human decency.

Oh and I forgot to add, it’s really adorable that your boyfriend picked out a cheongsam for you to wear. Blame colonialism and racism for ruining a sweet story :(

I think this is the last I will post on cultural appropriation because this is not what my blog is for. However my ask box and messages are always open if people need to vent about colonialism, Orientalism or racist shit in general :))