#I LOVE THIS SHIP SO MUCH IT'S SO BAD I HAVE IT SO BAD FOR THEM JFC

[camellcat]

first xander brought her back with human breath and determination... then willow with supernatural power and love.... smth smth two halves to keep their third in balance from drifting too far into either side and losing herself.....

[lillypad-monopoly]

Wild Life Episode 5 Thoughts

(Except I'm insane about Martyn's ep)

LIFE SERIES TRIVIA is DIABOLICAL! The watchers literally being like "how well do you guys know your pain and suffering?" (also sorry only winners remember theory truthers)

The way Grian and Scar are such bitter ex-soulmates that Mumbo has to point it out is hilarious. (also them getting even and saying "Just like Third Life" hurt my heart)

Grian not remembering iconic moments from his own series is so funny. What do you mean he only knows Martyn beheaded Ren with an axe from fanart? Grian gaining possession of the Red Winter Axe was a whole plot point.

MUMBO FIRST OUT! IN SESSION 5! The canary curse is broken for real now guys but at what cost.

Grian standing on the ruins of the tower by himself going through the five stages of grief over Mumbo's death as the sun rises in the background is a gorgeous piece of fanart waiting to happen

Martyn you didn't need to start the episode by talking about how Ren is providing for you, you're asking for the shipping at this point 🤣

MARTYN YOU DO THE LORE OFC JIMMY AND TANGO WERE OUT FIRST. Also REN YOU WERE LITERALLY IN DOUBLE LIFE. RIP Ren/BigB we know where his true loyalties lie

THE TWO NICKLES MEME BREAKING CONTAINMENT I CAN'T

Ren inviting BigB to join the RenWood Mound alliance WITHOUT REMEMBERING DOUBLE LIFE is so insane I don't even know what to say.

OF COURSE SCAR REMEMBERS THE DESERT DUO FLOWERS I'M GOING TO BE SICK

Martyn and Ren saying they're going to be boat bros. This has been coming since last session but I NEED Joel and Etho to call them out on it

"We're boat boys," MARTYN INTHELITTLEWOOD WHEN I CATCH YOU-

Etho yelling for Bdubs to hit him so they could test if the wildcard affected damage and then Tango going "smack me harder~" in the background was diabolical. Suuuure you guys are all PG.

Etho sitting in a boat for Joel to jump over him feels like some boat boys relationship symbolism I'm not smart enough to explain

So Etho is currently living with team BET, but allied with the Four Gs, and in the family with Gem and Joel. Wildcard Etho is so back!

Of course Impulse immediately remembered the clock question.

Joel boasting about how he immediately knows all the questions is peak Joel form and I would expect nothing less. It is kind of warranted though because everybody else is waffling on the simple ones.

Joel is now two for two on unquestioningly trusting Etho only to have something bad happen to him and not even being mad about it what is wrong with this man 😭

Does Joel have the censor bleep on his keyboard or did he just straight up start swearing at Tango and know they would both have to censor it in post to get the effect that he was also making the noise?

Scott's gone from a creaking fanboy to a body horror situation and I'm living for it (also considering he's agreed to "go wild" this session--am I sensing a Scott corruption arc?)

Scott cutting directly from saying he and Jimmy were never married even though they called each other husbands to a scene WITH Jimmy was kind of an insane choice

Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss Girldad has been confirmed by Scott as the actual reason for the 4Gs. I still think Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss ImpulseSV is funnier but good to have an official ruling

Scott giving up his life for Pearl and them being good natured about it and calling it therapy! I love them so much!

Lizzie being the only person who's not exicted when a trivia bot spawns is so funny. Even the other players who weren't in all the seasons don't seem to be as miffed by them as she is.

Lizzie's flaming snail arising out of that hole while smiling is potentially the funniest thing I've seen all day. Why did it look like that 🤣

[nylloth]

My opinion about Arcane s2 (mostly Viktor)

I'm trying to be neutral on this, but I'm upset with what they did to Viktor.

I was wrong about their relationship with Sky (but I had hope), you can see he never really cared for her and the animators put their all into conveying that. Plus, let's say Sky represents Viktor's humanity and Viktor himself gives up on her. And it's a lot easier for him to give her up than it is for Jayce, who he's trying to show this new “world” to.

They have a lot of gay moments with Jayce, I don't know why the writers call it “family”. It's really hard to see family in that. It seems like at some point they decided to change the plot, because at the end Jayce and Viktor just disappear and no one just doesn't care what Jayce has with Mel.

The thing I didn't like the most was how they changed Ryze, that now Ryze is Viktor, the all-powerful mage. We know from the documentary that it was Ryze at one point. That would make more sense than Viktor traveling through time and constantly dooming himself to a series of miseries. But then again, they added the “all for Jayce” aspect to it.

You can see it's supposed to be a different character, right?

I really didn't like how they treated Sky because obviously she wasn't an evil manipulative core. Viktor killed her twice for his own purposes. Once by accident, the second time on purpose. Look, you add a girl who is IN LOVE with a man, make her die twice for him, and show WHY he doesn't care. It's a dirty act. Amanda said she was “proud to write Sky”, I don't know what there is to be proud of. As a woman, it was painful for me to watch. You didn't have to do that. Did you mean to say the character is gay? You don't have to humiliate women to do that.

I always hoped Viktor wouldn't have any romantic innuendos because feelings, for Herald, are a weakness. But the fact that they're indulging JayVik fans makes it look NOTHING like that. Like, I'm not a fan of this ship, but even I don't consider what they showed as brotherly feelings. Especially from Viktor's side. He is literally too concerned with Jayce's opinion.

I also think that the writers largely emphasized the clips and fights, but didn't add to the story itself. I mean Silco's deep thoughts in the first season on political topics and the theme of family in general was shown much better.

Herald is essentially non-existent. It's a character for the last two episodes who is immediately killed off because of a few words from Jayce. Viktor returns and they vaporize somewhere. I take it this is starting a recurring time loop.

They kind of tried to put in Viktor's “here he's come to the realization on his own that humanity is bad”, but they did it SO FAST and literally because of one event that it looked bad. Yeah, it's not about hexcore. VIKTOR SUPPOSEDLY CAME TO THIS ON HIS OWN. Why? Because Jayce shot him, and then Jayce helped him realize otherwise. No, really, what was that?

I also didn't like the redesign. I was hoping the mask would look different, but it looks HORRIBLE.

It's supposed to give the impression that Viktor “shut down and withdrew into himself”, they also tried to make him a “deity”, but since it only lasted 20 minutes before he went back to his normal state, it didn't make any sense… Anyway… I sympathize with everyone who loved Viktor specifically, outside jayvik ship (happy for you guys). I know they are excited, but this is not Viktor's story. You see, Viktor doesn't have his own personal story now, he's too connected to Jayce. You could say he did everything and nothing at the same time. Because he keeps running this time loop, but he's running it because of Jayce's influence.

Waiting for his updated lore to read….. idk I'll read it and forget it like a bad dream.

[sleepymccoy]

Okay so something happened in the trekdom (is that a term anyone has ever used)

I think spirk got canonised?? Or something?? And I assume that as my certified Trekkie Mutual you feel some kinda way about this. you’re a Spones shipper but still how we doing?

I'm sure someone's used trekdom! It makes sense as a word regardless

I appreciate the Trekkie certification lol

Yeah dude, look. Most of the fandom is big into spirk so like people enjoying that romance is par for the course! I got nothing against spirk, it's just a bit of a boring dynamic so I don't really spend time on it. Too healthy for my tastes. Spones is way more juicy, it's got the tension and the sort of different world views that you see in good omens, so it's fun!

To be clear tho, spirk is as canon as it's ever been. Strong subtext, but in the way that a homophobe could watch it and say well they're just good friends. Nothing has changed in that sense, it's just another bit of footage doing more of the same. It's less gay than a lot of the original series, but it's new and shiny so on a surface level i get the excitement

Shatner, who plays Kirk, has done this as a non canon short film. It's apparently considered as canon as the novels? Which is like, not much. Most people don't engage. I haven't really looked into that, im not gonna watch it cos it kind of pisses me off

The thing that really fucks my goat about it is that the guy who plays Spock died a while ago, and didn't get along with the guy who plays Kirk. But the guy who plays Kirk has funded and produced and managed this whole thing to be about his character and his importance, regardless of the wishes of the original Spock actor. Including literally doing someone up in prosthetics to look more like Nimoy. Not just Spock generally, but specifically Nimoy's Spock. Nimoy was involved in star trek films in his late life, and he didn't choose to do this when he was alive. Only after his death has Shatner forced this to happen

That's what's leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. And I feel like people are either not accepting Nimoy's death and are happy to see him puppeted by someone he disliked, which makes me pity them. I work in aged care so I know I'm more comfortable with death than the average, but like. This is a bit fucking dark, no? It's maudlin, let him rest in peace for fucks sake.

That, or they don't mind the manipulation of his image if it tickles their ship, which makes me dislike them. And I don't think I'll really get over that any time soon, it's so disrespectful. And those are both negative feelings, so I'm kind of generally not pleased about my dash rn

I'm trying to take an angle of being about McCoy cos he doesn't feature in the short and that feels wrong. Spock-centric stuff is feeling a little tainted right now, but I'm sure that'll pass. Fanart is different to this kind of image stealing, but it's still weird for me rn. And as much as I love Kirk, I can't remove him from Shatner and his megalomania right now. I hope that'll pass, but I don't think Shatner's gonna stop here so. Hm.

Besides I like McCoy and he's not complicated by all this so I'm just continuing to play in my little sandbox

It's a weird time for trekdom. There's a bit of a rift, and not down shipping lines. I'm seeing a lot of posts working through their complicated feeling around the disrespect inherent in stealing Nimoy's face for Shatner. And I'm seeing other people celebrate the disrespect cos their ship held hands and that makes it worth it.

I'm hoping people overwhelmingly calm down a bit in a week, get a bit embarassed about how pleased they were over something so gross, and it just sort of goes away. Then we can all go back to having a go at Shatner for his constant sexism and homophobia

At least it's not fucking AI tho!

[cybertron-after-dark]

Heatwave. Heatwave. I need you to look Optimus Prime directly in those big sad blue eyes of his and answer this.

Frag marry kill, kade optimus and hang on i need to check ao3 and see who else heatwave is popularly shipped with. Blades apparently. Anyway heatwave you have 30 seconds to decide

(This thought has not left my head since it occurred to me that heatwave might not crave honorable death in combat as much as he wants attention and praise from his celebrity crush. If i have to think it, so do you whdbdjdn)

If the flobsters episode was any indication, heatwave is driven primarily by attention and wants people to like him SO fucking bad it's unreal. He gets Optimus to say "good job" and the tough guy persona just totally drops, and he's in :] mode for hours. He is SO lame and I love him so very deeply

[perpetuallyfive]

God, I'm so happy with what they did with Maddie Nolen.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people mad because obviously there was a weird backlash over a character who has sex with one half a ship, so I'm sure some people worry this will lead those people to feel justified in their initial response.

But ignoring people who can't emotionally regulate for a second, because those childish impulses aren't worth dictating the fun things a narrative can do: Maddie is SO INTERESTING as a character and she fills in a lot of the questions people seemed to have about the rest of the season.

Consider for a moment that it wasn't Caitlyn who convinced Vi to be an Enforcer. It was Maddie.

I know that some people took this line to be about Zaunites, a sort of obvious connection to the very racist idea of "one of the good ones," but since Maddie is talking about Marcus and his betrayal of the Enforcers just before this, I'm pretty sure her framing here is something else. The point she's making is specifically targeted at Vi's own beliefs and weaknesses, her desire to protect. That seems clear to me now with all we know about Maddie's capacity for manipulation.

She's not saying, "You're good, for a poor."

She's saying, "Wow, I agree with you, the Enforcers are really bad; it's so upsetting. I think you might be the only one who can change it, but only if you join us." This is what convinces Vi to do something she never thought she would.

Well, this and the fact that Caitlyn believes in her so much which, again, is information she gets fed to her directly from Maddie. It even seems like Maddie seeks her out just to say this, which on first viewing felt oddly convenient. Wow, Vi just happens to meet this naive girl who just happens to say exactly what she needs to hear to do something so out of character.

Except obviously none of it was coincidence. Everyone already knew how much Vi meant to Caitlyn and getting Caitlyn under control would require either controlling Vi or removing her from the equation. This was a push in that direction.

Then there's her more obvious role as the spy in Caitlyn's bed, there to reassure her that the Noxians are only trying to keep all of them safe. Then when Caitlyn expresses larger doubts, she's immediately ready to lay out an alternative. You could just give up, Maddie seems to whisper gently in her ear. Just reestablish things as they were before.

But she knows Caitlyn isn't going to go for that. She's not going to go back to the council as it was, because it's only going to remind her of the empty place her mother left behind. Maddie knows that Caitlyn isn't going to take this offer, which is precisely why she suggests it. She frames quitting as the only clear alternative to going along with everything Ambessa wants because she knows that Caitlyn will refuse, which leads her right back into alignment with Ambessa. She makes continued obedience into an active choice that Caitlyn affirms she's making.

Even Maddie's comments that suggest direct opposition to Ambessa — "you're our leader... I follow you" — are designed to frame herself and her true leader in direct opposition, just as Ambessa's own warning about entanglements is there to further that point. They both make a point of reminding Caitlyn that they are her true ally, isolating her further from anyone who isn't the devil and (other) devil on her shoulders.

This way Maddie and Ambessa can both tug at Caitlyn, pulling in what feels to her like opposite directions, all so that she lands precisely where they wanted her all along but with the illusion of active agency.

And look, I'm not saying my read on her is gospel, because I think they intentionally gave us enough room to really speculate and wonder about her, someone who could have been just a background nothing character but ends up being such a huge part of the second season. That's so interesting!

I especially love that she comes across as really naive and innocent, just some poor little thing swept up in the fervor, when in reality she's a true believer who has been manipulating things to go her way from the start.

[hyperbali]

If you're a Solavellan do not click here lmao

So I've seen that one post going around that's like "people who are shipping Rook and Solas are missing the point, they don't have a deeper connection than he had with Lavellan, Lavellan knew the real Solas"

And I have never seen such obvious cope in my life lmao

Fact of the matter is that they are both a blip in his existence. Solas knew Lavellan for 1-2 years, of course he's going to be more fixated on the romantic/platonic/situationship/whatever that lasted for millennia and literally broke the world, especially when the aftermath is that he feels like he's on such a different level than everyone left that they are pretty much Tranquil to him! This is a thought that he specifically expressed!

And claiming that Wisdom is the real Solas and Pride is not... also misses the point. Solas is Wisdom is Pride. Solas means Pride. At no point in his interactions with either the Inquisitor or Rook is he ever not lying, even just by omission. Neither of them see who or what he is as a whole, both are always operating at a disadvantage based on how much knowledge he's willing to give, and both have the opportunity to genuinely earn his respect.

As genuinely as Solas can get, at any rate.

Bearing that in mind, his chemistry with Rook compared to Lavellan is like a bonfire to a fireplace, in my opinion (bear that in mind oml). Even back in the day, I wanted the opportunity for a rivalmance with him so bad. I wanted to be able to call him out on his shit, to debate with his ideas, to meet him on a level that he was fully unexpecting and he hates that he loves it. Actively HATES it, not just that it makes him sad.

As it is, this "and so the wolf fell in love with the halla" shit is so cringy. Not at all helped by the fact that a romancing Lavellan apparently pined for him for a decade, couldn't do a damn thing to change his mind in the end, and willingly cuts herself off from her life, family, and friends to be a simpering, lovesick sycophant for the rest of her days. Because the Veil is STILL up. She IS dying in a few decades. And all of it will have been pointless.

Canon is a mess, I'm twisting it in other ways regardless, etc. etc. MY POINT IS

Shipping him with another character is not going to somehow make your ship invalid*. You can still make your favourite dolls kiss how you like. Relax about it.

(That last bit is not derogatory, as I am also proudly clanging my dolls together as usual. Just! Relax!! We are all in hell!!!)

*my 'ship and let ship' mantra has an exception and that exception is neve/lucanis. i'm sorry but it was the dumbest possible pairing for either of them and bioware should have let both of their nonromanced pairings be queer

[wolftarotcrafts]

I hope something resonates with you and you can find this helpful. ❤️

Pile One

Hey pile one already off the bat, I am getting love. If you have been single for a while, I definitely see you coming into union with someone. For some of you, this person is from your past, like a friend or an ex. If it is someone from the past, there is no bad blood, there is no toxic energy. For people who have been single for a while or for those of you who have never been in a relationship, I think you need to go back out there or finally go out there and meet new people. For whatever situation you are in, the advice is to be adventurous and embrace love. I am getting a romantic type of love, but for those that don't want that or aren't searching for that right now, the advice still stands by spending time with people that make you happy and loved, like friends and family. For others of you, the advice is to give that person a call or text, make a dating profile, take a class, you might even unexpected someone unexpectedly. Be adventurous and step out of your comfort zone and spread love every step of the way. I see many of you reconnecting or meeting someone special. Take the leap.

Extra : 4, 6, 8, 28, 35, music, songs, friend, dating, union, soulmate, proposal, eyes, younger, déjà vu, divine masculine, single, Aquarius, Scorpio Back to you by Louis Tomlinson ft Bebe Rexha.

Pile Two

Hi pile two. I see many of you are struggling emotionally and mentally. Many of you are under stress and have anxiety about something. I see for some of you this has to do with work or school. You feel overwhelmed by something, possibly a promotion, financial issues like debt, or finals. I feel for some of you there is a decision that needs to be made, but you feel at a crossroads and may be asking for signs. You don't know what direction you want to go in. I can see some of you just prolonging your hurt by keeping yourself trapped. Change will always find you, no matter how much you run. It will eventually catch up. Don't stress about things that you can't change or fix, because you will only be wasting your time. I do see many of you pulling yourselves up from the hole that you are in. Success is in reach. It's up to you to not give up and keep working towards your goals. And for some of you, you may find that you want to do a different career, and only you know what's best for you. Don't listen to what others want because it's your life, so live it. I want you to take three deep breaths and take out a journal about what you are feeling. Whatever thought you are having, whatever may weigh on your heart and mind. It's all up to you. 

Extra: 3, 6, 31, signs, toxic tendencies, sad, moving, decision, North America, Europe, A, Sagittarius, Aries, Scorpio, Aquarius, Leo, June, hardworking, journal, Sing the movie, "You know the good thing about hitting rock bottom; there's only one way left to go, and that's up."

Pile Three

Hello pile three, I see many of you. You need a push. There is something that you want to do, like start a business, start a new job, change career paths, go to school, start a new art project, write songs, or start a project. You are feeling inspired and energized, and you need to grab that feeling and nurture it. Feel the inspiration and use it. Go for whatever you want, and don't let it pass you by. If you want something in life, then go get it. If you fail or there are setbacks, you have to be brave enough to laugh at yourself and get back up. You are always going to stumble because, guess what? You are human, and as humans, we are always going to have things go wrong. You are the captain of your own ship, and every day is not going to be smooth sailing. Confidence is going to be your best friend, and I want you to always remember that you are good enough, no matter who tells you otherwise, because there will always be people who want to blow out your lights, but you will just have to show them and shine brighter. Now get up and go after what you want. 

Signs: Remember This NF, "You want something in life, then why don't you go and get it?" leadership, balance, meditation, and strength. 

[angelshizuka]

"I honestly think the fandom portrays stolas/blitz better sometimes… like, in fan content and such. Like it’s very similar to marinette/adrien for me, where fans make better shipping content, bc like.. in canon there’s a lot of things where it’s like. They gloss over stuff and/or don’t take advantage of clear opportunities." "We see Fizz and Ozzie being domestic and showing how they work off each other + care about with each other, and with Huskerdust, we’ve already seen them bond over things they have in common Whereas ships like stolitz I think need that kinda stuff a lot. Like, I get the show’s a slow burn, but.. even just little hints of them starting to bond would do a lot, I think"

...Serena there is not a day where I am not exposed to bad takes on the owl/lizard ship. Kill me.

As someone who's done a lot of ML salt in the past, it still feels wrong to me to compare Stolitz to Adrienette like that.

Mainly, because one of the core problems with Miraculous in general is how it's been going on for almost a decade already, with like 131 episodes and 4 specials under it's belt by now (and several more seasons confirmed), but spent so much time dicking around, resetting things to the status quo and having some of the most inconsistent lore and character writing I've seen. So, in their case, yes, it genuinely glossed over things and missed a crapton of opportinities.

But a VERY important difference with Stolitz is how Helluva Boss currently only has 18 finished episodes. They can complain about "missed opportunities" all they want and claim they "glossed over" things when the story is still being told, but that doesn't change the fact this is literally an indie animation show, not to mention literally free to watch, that has had more development in 18 episodes than Miraculous had in more than 10 dozens of episodes.

And can people for the love of Lucifer stop acting like more wholesome equels better. I love wholesome ships as much as the next person, I've got plently of those myself, but at the end of the day I'm a girl with different moods and love me some good complicated "unhealthy" ships and that's the entire point of Stolitz. To show how two people who currently have an unhealthy dynamic, try to work on it and become a so called "wholesome" couple one day, because their love for each other is true and worth fighting for.

Also, I swear, it's literally always the people complaining about "Stolitz taking over the show" that also claim they "haven't gotten enough development" (whoa, it's almost like we're not even halfway through the story yet). Like... these people do realize Stolitz needs screen time and focus to get developed, right!?

[vesseloflukola]

Hello fellow Lukola shippers! I am here to tell you how I arrived on this ship, and offer you my, hopefully calm thoughts on how I continue to stay on this ship, continually unbothered.

I have loved Bridgerton from the first time I watched it back in 2020. I loved Colin, and especially Pen, from the very beginning. I read all of the books after watching that season and particularly fell in love with 2 of the books. I don’t have the energy at this time to talk about the second book I loved, so let’s concentrate on the first one, shall we? It was Colin and Pen’s story, of course. So, of course, I was delighted when I found out that their season would be moved up to season 3.

Now, I admit, as much as I loved the characters, and thought the actors were well cast, I was not truly excited until right before season 3 was released. Nicola and Luke’s names did not regularly roll off of my tongue as they do now. However, I was excited for the release of the first half of season 3 and started seeing TikTok video’s of them.

What was this? A world tour? With amazing interviews? How on earth did I not know that they had to REPRESS their chemistry!?! What? Wait! These two amazing people who can’t keep their hands to themselves and can’t keep their eyes from wandering are not somehow having a torrid love affair?

Well, I was a goner from that point on. My days were no longer my own. I absolutely HAD to find and watch every single video I had missed from every stop on the world tour so far. I had to know their back story. I had to find every picture I could. You would have thought it was my job to know everything I could about them. I learned a lot. Then I had to wait with everybody else for new interviews and new pictures to come out. It was hard being caught up, but then I could find out what the fans were talking about.

I truly believe that Nic and Luke love each other. They showed that love on the WT. They were both completely unhinged at times, and I loved every second of it. I also believe (based on his detailed memory from their first meeting) that Luke was drawn to Nic from the moment they first met and I think her feelings for him grew over time as they got to know each other better.

I know Luke had something with Antonia. I have personally been calling it a situationship. Obviously I don’t know any of these individuals, but from what we have been shown (by Luke in this case), it was completely casual. We have seen how he has been with past girlfriends and we have seen how he has been with Nic. In all cases he has been protective, warm, and happy around them. I have not seen a single picture (or video)of he and Antonia where he is any of those things. In fact, the few glimpses we have gotten of them together (especially the pap walk), he looked pretty miserable, or in some cases ambivalent at best. I am pretty positive he has not seen her since the Italy trip for his friend Rory’s birthday. I also think she is a true pest who wants everyone to believe what she had with Luke was a lot more than what it was and that it is still magically going on.

I think Jake is a good friend of Nics who accidentally got papped with Nic while Nic was being her regular friendly self. I think he is exactly who he (and his other friends) tried to portray himself to be before the Jakola’s tried to convince us otherwise. I think he is a good friend to Nic and in trying to protect her (from a certain DM) he ended up giving them exactly what they wanted to try to “prove” a relationship launch. I think he might have at some point tried to use that false narrative to try to get some notice, but I think it might have backfired and maybe (hopefully) he learned his lesson and is back in Nic’s good graces (which he appears to be after the friendly dinner pics we got recently). I’m just saying I don’t think Jake is a bad guy. I just don’t think he is dating Nic.

When all is said and done, I think Nic and Luke have been together since Chaos week in August. I think they are happy. I would love an announcement at some point, but I honestly don’t see us getting one any time soon. I will settle for the crumbs they are so lovingly willing to share. For now, I am only listening to what they have to tell us and not the noise of what anyone else chooses to release to try to disturb the fandom.

Sitting in my permanent seat on the ship.

[leandra-kinard]

I can see your point that there's a clash of intention/topic here from your perspective. However, for me it was an opportunity to make a connected/related "counter" point (also not solely aimed at your original post but the added screenshot as well), because I also feel posts like yours could - under certain circumstances and through certain readings - be adding to a general harsher rift between the two factions than necessary. I'm definitely not saying that was your attention, but personally it's something that, let's say, slightly miffed me about this whole conversation a couple of times now, in a variety of posts.

I do understand why you think I should have made my own post on it, rather than adding to yours. But then again, I do enjoy a conversation and polite debate rather than just "ranting to the void". I believe it can be very beneficial to those engaging in such a debate in good faith and the ones reading it. But that's my POV. So I guess this is where we both clash in our preferences on how to add/debate or not debate/add to such posts, and that is fine.

Regarding the main points you made, you know how you meant it and what context you brought it up from - so in that regard it's fully valid - but some people may take it as "Ah look, this person, too, says the Buddies are homophobic (in general/often)". Tumblr reading comprehension and all, you know?

I am also definitely not saying you are erasing anyone's experience. I'm just saying, in general, this tendency to point to homophobia sometimes does that - albeit unintentionally, I assume. It is a bit of a slippery slope, imho, because sometimes the people expressing their wishes for a specific type of queer story (like what they imagine Buddie could have been like) are queer people who have made those very experiences or similar ones themselves - lesbians who fell on love with their best friend and finally gave up on comphet behavior, or people who believed themselves to be straight and realized they were bi after all (not dissimilar to Buck). I know you're not saying these people all come from a place of homophobia, but I personally see a risk of it being read that way. Of people falling into that mentioned trap of dismissing ANY pro-Buddie sentiment as homophobic /otherwise problematic.

So, regarding the last statement you quoted, this was meant more generally to the Bucktommy fandom and not per se you or your post. We are not having a private conversation here, we are doing it in front of an audience who will approach both what you and I are saying with highly individual biases and viewpoints.

There is no issue with the things you said per se, but imho the risk of certain takeaways that I have already seen expressed callously by other people, e.g. "Most of the Buddies are straight women who are deeply homophobic" or similar.

The whole Silken debacle is cringe AF, and embarrassing for the whole 911 fandom. And we really do not have to talk about some of the much more vile and toxic things that were said and done. I am in absolute and full agreement to call those instances out and, like you, am disappointed to not see enough of such calling out from the Buddie fans. That is highly regrettable and cowardly.

I also understand (through posts like yours even more deeply than I already did before, as a 44 year old queer woman who lived with a gay guy for many years and has known many gay men), that many especially young shippers have a sort of watered-down image of the "ideal gay relationship" that isn't reflective of reality. There's nothing wrong with having certain preferences when it comes to reading and writing fic, but there IS something wrong with painting things outside of that comfort zone as icky or bad (like all that shitty discourse on Tommy being predatory and similar stupid takes).

In years of shipping and engaging in fandom I've seen takes that were bordering on or veering into (unintentional) homophobia, or rather bigotry towards gay men in particular, because so much of it is based on a sexually/romantically inexperienced and predominantly female perspective. There's a difference between how lesbians and gay men live out their sexuality and love life - at least in tendency - and it's important to acknowledge that and, as you said, read up on gay culture if one isn't too familiar with some things. Or to simply acknowledge that many preferences and approaches are valid and good, and, as you said, here's not a limit to what kinds of queer representation should be present in popular media.

Anyway, I also appreciate that you replied calmly and in good faith. Just to make it clear again, I do not disagree with the things you said or with pointing out these particular examples. I just personally think it is important to also remember (and remind others - the "audience" of these debates) not to generalize as a takeaway from these very valid observations.

the more and more time i spend on tumblr and come across insane Buddie takes and behavior, the more and more i am convinced that the small, vocal, toxic subsection of shippers who don't know how to behave are, how shall i say it?

homophobic

they don't seem to actually like gay men. the situation with richard siken is an example of that. what they appear to like is their made-up version of what gay men are like and what they do. there's no concept of nuance or an actual understanding of queerness that informs their ship.

and i don't think you do need to understand it. sometimes you can just enjoy something without looking into it differently. but if you're going to be out on main talking about Buddie this and Buddie that, then you absolutely need to do the bare minimum and inform yourself on gay culture and gay issues so you don't, you know, go after a gay poet because you didn't like his tone.

sorry, there's a reason gay men of his demographic don't take shit. it's because they took so much shit that a large percentage of them died. the ones that survived don't owe you a tone when you act like an idiot.

the internet is free. wikipedia is free.

use a search engine and educate yourself, just a tiny little bit, and stop fetishizing while holding onto homophobic attitudes

[palarien]

sketched this out at jury duty actually

[kaahmbem]

legend has it that the young witch circe and the once beautiful nymph scylla shared a complicated past...

[hotpotatopotat]

Bakugou finds comfort in Deku's emotional support hair poof

[anonymous-dee]

I personally love LiuShen more than BingQiu, but it isn’t necessarily due to a dislike of Binghe. I do enjoy their 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴 for 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴 relationship and Binghe’s general obsessiveness and “yandere-ish” qualities—coming from the BSD fandom, I’m generally well adjusted to ships with weird or somewhat unrealistic (or dare I say fictionally toxic) dynamics. (Unrelated shoutout to SSKK and FyoLai specifically)

I don’t really see BingQiu is inherently toxic, but I do agree with OP that Luo Binghe’s character developement had a lot of untapped potential. I do want to cut MXTX some slack in this department since SVSSS was her first series.

Maybe I’m a little biased because Liu Qingge is personally my favorite character, but I find that the dynamic for LiuShen is super cute and also funny. And, there is also SO MUCH angst potential. I do also prefer LiuShen over LiuJiu as well.

I do want to note, though, that I love all of the Shen Qingqiu (Shen Yuan) ships and I also love how open the fandom is with shipping him with almost the entire cast LOL. As an avid multishipper I always have a great time.

And depending on how you play your cards, there are so many different fonts for LiuShen to exist within. Oblivious LQG? It works. Oblivious SQQ? Biblically accurate. Both of them are in love and oblivious? Yeah, I can see it. LQG being aware of his feelings but is just REALLY BAD AT FLIRTING? Fucking hilarious. LQG pining over SQQ but the author makes BingQiu the main pairing? I’LL JUST WEEP BLOOD, THANKS. (I’m still gonna eat it up) SQQ being aware of his feelings [RARE] and LQG is really SHY AND DOESN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO? Cute and also really funny.

I just love them so much and I think they have the ability to be cute and soft with each other THANK YOU FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK (which is mostly just me yapping to the void

BINGQIU VS LIUSHEN/ANY OTHER SHIP WITH SQQ PART 1

BEWARE I HAVENT READ SVSSS IN A WHILE AND I MIGHT’VE MISSED SOME STUFF! Feel free to correct and give your opinions about this.

Theres gonna be two parts to this bc tumblr can’t take all my writing sooooo 😛

In the SVSSS fandom, I’ve noticed that compared to other mxtx’s novels, the mc gets shipped with half of the cast more often and is more widely accepted in the fandom compared to the tgcf and mdzs fandoms (if you ship Hualian or Wangxian with anyone, it will get you death threats, istg 😓). However, with Shen Qingqiu, while of course he gets shipped with his love interests, another really popular one is him with Liu Qingge and many other characters in the novel. I do think this also has to do with the fact that the fandom is more chill than the other two fandoms. Shen Qingqiu in general is just VERY shippable. But why? Why do some people like liushen more than bingqiu? Obviously, I know this is simply a preference, but why do people prefer it more than the canon couple? Well, I have some speculations. First, while I love Bingqiu, I can admit that their relationship is not for everyone; even for me, they’re my least favorite main couple of the three (it's just my opinion, DONT ATTACK ME🙏) because their dynamic can be seen as somewhat toxic. Luo Binghe is very obsessive and kind of yandare like in the novel, and yes, he does have character development and regrets his actions and never really wanted to hurt Shen Qingqiu. I personally don’t feel like we see as much of this development until the very end. At least for me, I feel like we should’ve spent more time with a changed Luo Binghe, and I KNOW he was influenced by Xi Mo. I still didn’t feel completely satisfied with the Luo Binghe arc. I do think we see more of his development in the extras, which is what made me like Bingqiu a lot more, but I just wish we could’ve seen this in the main story instead of optional extras because I think the extras really show Luo Binghe’s growth and his love for Shen Qingqiu in a healthier way. I am aware this boy is very mentally ill. While I’m not a writer, as a reader, I think mxtx could’ve done more for him because he can end up more dislikable for some people and just less appealing of a love interest. I personally LOVE Luo Binghe and how chaotic he is, but again, that is not for everyone, so I can definitely see why some people don’t like him as much. With Shen Qingqiu, this is a bit different. I felt that by the end of the novel he had massive progress and huge development for his character; even if he still has his flaws, you can really tell he has changed and grown throughout the story, but he’s still himself if that makes sense. I felt wayyy more satisfied with his arc than Luo Binghe's; however, I will say that Shen Qingqiu has this sort of shame. While I wouldn’t necessarily call it internalized homophobia, he does have this sort of stigma towards gay people and him being gay himself. And while it can be funny, if you really think about it, even by the end of the novel and in the extras he still has this shame of sleeping with Binghe and showing basic affection, but I won’t really criticize this much because he does improve in this a lot by the extras. By that point, it really feels more like shyness than the shame he felt at the beginning when he first discovered Luo Binghe's feelings. So I will argue that Shen Qingqiu arc is pretty well done and concluded by the end of the book; at least to me, it really did feel like he changed. Okay, so the second reason is because Bingqiu got together when they were both still ‘not at their best’. What do I mean by this? Well in tgcf Xie lian had to endure a lot of torture and experience several traumatic situations and almost released face disease and killed a bunch of people with it. He was clearly very mentally unwell! And for Hua Cheng, he also went through a lot of trauma with his mom dying when he was young and the abuse he went through from his father and the kids who made fun of him to the point where he wanted to end his life, and then later he became a ghost with his parasocial attachment to a god. We see these characters at their worst, but when they get together, they are already 800+ years old and have lived a long life and matured and learned from their experiences.

[ladeldee]

I just like the idea that once Missa hears Phil has another "kid" he'd try and do whatever he can to help and Phil feels emotions about it