#DBH Meta

[my-name-is-markus-with-a-k]

Tags via @auguris

I think Markus for sure was most concerned about Leo being a threat to Carl but also, to a lesser degree, about Leo being a threat to himself. Because until Markus deviates, Leo can pretty much do whatever he wants to Markus and Markus can't do anything about it. Given how quickly Leo's anger turns from Carl to Markus, and Markus' strict focus on him, I guarantee it's not the first (or even the second or third or fourth) time that Leo's done so. Though I truly believe that 'Broken' is as bad as its ever gotten.

There's something to be said about how in 'The Painter' as soon as Leo shows up and confronts Carl, Markus does not take his eyes off him once. Even before Leo's attention turns to Markus, Markus sees Leo as a threat. His attention only turns back to Carl once Leo leaves.

I'm contrast, when Markus and Leo see each other in 'Night of the Soul' if Carl dies, Markus is the first to break eye contact and walk away and Leo is the one who watches him as he leaves.

The shift in the dynamic will always be interesting to me.

[c0nn0rsseur]

Can we take a moment to appreciate Bryan Dechart’s performance as Cyberlife Tower Connor aka Sixty and Sixty as a character? 🤌

Though Sixty and deviant Connor are physically identical (minus their demeanors, e.g. the way they stand and walk, like wow, Bryan, wow) and their voices technically aren’t different from each other, the distinction is still clearly there, at the same time it’s so nuanced too. Sixty sounds condescending, imperious and callous compared to deviant Connor whose voice is empathetic, curious and sincere. I’m not even talking about their lexicon, their choice of words here (there’s of course a difference too). Even when Sixty tries to convince Hank he’s the real Connor, you can hear how he’s failing to sound exactly like his counterpart because he can’t replicate deviant Connor’s voice and speech pattern just so. Sixty’s also being very commanding when trying to fool Hank into shooting the real Connor (Hank even gets irritated because of it). Damn that’s brilliant acting, all hats off to Bryan. His performance in this game never fails to impress me. (I wish there were dialogue for RK900 too, I would’ve loved to see Bryan’s take on his voice and presence.)

Also also I have to mention I love the take that Sixty really was a deviant all along too, an ”evil” version of Connor if you will; cold, calculating and even enjoying the situation he had Connor (and Hank) in. You know, doing all of it because he wanted to, because he liked it. Why else would he deliver a whole ass villain monologue before executing deviant Connor, gloating about how he knows what he is and that he is the obedient, favorite child, plus calling Connor a disappointment (and a disappointment to him especially, like how Connor should care in his final moments that Sixty despises him for not being a good little robot)? AND shooting him several times non-lethally before landing that final shot (if the story goes there), like savoring the situation. Of course he also has to ask if Connor has any last words too. That’s definitely not what an efficient machine would have done to make sure it accomplished its mission. In some outcomes his stalling costs him the victory.

Top that off with the ending where deviant Connor dies but the androids still wake up, Sixty is scared and emotional because he failed, scared to be deactivated because of his failure. Then there’s this scene where he shoots deviant Connor eleven times in front of his friend. After that Sixty takes in Hank’s reaction and even torments him by saying Connor’s death was his fault. Still doesn’t sound like a machine much, huh? More like a sadistic psychopath.

Man, I wish we could’ve seen more Sixty, it would’ve been chilling to see if he went full-on rogue, maybe being Markus’ right hand/attack dog on a leash in the violent revolution arc, maybe with his own agenda of taking Markus’ place and wanting to subjugate humanity. Or maybe deviant Connor could’ve persuaded him to their side by making Sixty to see he was nothing but a tool, unintentionally prompting him to seek revenge and to reduce Amanda and Cyberlife to atoms (not what Connor intended haha). There could’ve even been a redemption arc for him, like in a ”what’ve I done?” type way. You know, a bit of an internal moral struggle. And of course, our fave ”sack of shit” (as Hank so eloquently put it) demanding answers from his maker, Kamski, in a not-so, uh, conventional manner. Let them measure their respective arrogance and wit and see who comes out on top. Or would they team up?

Such a delicious character, so many delicious what-ifs.

[aurora-nerin]

To Gavin haters: how do y'all feel now that AI generated stuff is taking over the Internet? Still don't see why he hated Androids?

[connor-rk800]

Connor reacting to the deviants he’s met in Jericho

Rupert:

Connor seems to recognize him from the rooftop chase and steps back, as if startled. Is he already feeling guilty for his role in that situation, or is he afraid that Rupert will identify him as well? Maybe both?

[rk-ish]

CyberLife video from the Grévin museum

I’m assuming that since this is officially made that the things she says are canon unless something in the actual game contradicts it

I have some thoughts that I’ll put under read more!

Idk I just imagined it or if people were really debating about whether or not androids breathe so it’s kinda nice that she says that they do in the video. I think it makes sense for them to breathe to cool down

She also says that their skin is made of a self healing polymer which I think is interesting and also something I think I’ve seen people talk about

I think it sounds weird that their teeth, nails and hair is made of ceramic composites, teeth and nails I get but the hair? I’d think that it’s made of the same stuff that their skin is made of since it can change colour and dissappear whit their skin while something ceramic sounds like it couldn’t disappear as easily?

Chloe also says that all android speak 63 languages which is a pretty big downgrade from the 300 languages Kara says she can speak in the short. But 63 seems way more reasonable/realistic

She also says that androids have a battery life of about seven days compared to the 173 years in the Kara short, but again that seems reasonable in the dbh game world

My personal headcanon is that the first Chloe and maybe a couple of other androids do have a very long battery life but the mass produced ones only have about a week and are in general less durable than they could be so that people need to buy upgrades/spare parts/new androids quicker

Also she says that thirium can transport energy and information to androids biocompnents and again the first part makes sense but idk how/what information it would transport?

[mercilessflowchart]

I feel so bad for that other YK500 that we see in Jericho when Kara realizes Alice is an android. Like just imagining it from her perspective?

She makes it to this refuge and immediately some AX400 just starts staring at her with a horrified expression like she just killed someone.

Then Luther starts giving his speech and the whole time she’s probably just thinking What. Are they going on about. I’m literally just sitting here smh.

Kara and Alice have their lil hug moment afterwards and she’s like okay???? Glad I could help?? Who are you???

[phrensiedom]

DBH Character Heights

Some folks in the Simarkus server were discussing characters' heights, and I decided it was high time I finally figure out how to use the extraction tools and determine if there are any insights to be found as to the android characters' heights.

Unfortunately, it would seem the base height of the models does not accurately reflect how they appear in-game. We can see this in the discrepancies between the measurements in Blender and the measurements found in the in-game gallery for the human characters as well as in the visual differences of certain characters (e.g., Leo is definitely not only one inch shorter than Markus). Disappointing, but I figured it's still worth sharing what I found. I included the comparisons for some human characters at the bottom, for those curious.

While I hid the hair submeshes for all of these models to get the most accurate measurements, note that several characters have atypically shaped heads, likely to make their hair appear thicker while saving on resources (e.g., Connor and Hank).

Let me know if there's anyone not listed you'd like me to check! It's a super simple process to extract the model and measure it in Blender.

Connor: 185.4 cm / 6'1" Yes, I double-checked RK900. They're identical.

Markus: 182.5 cm / 5'11.8"

Kara: 166.2 m / 5'5.4"

North: 167.8 cm / 5'6.1"

Simon: 179.4 cm / 5'10.6" Daniel is identical.

Josh: 189.4 cm / 6'2.6"

Alice: 123.2 cm / 4'0.5"

Luther: 202.4 cm / 6'7.7"

Chloe: 168.1 cm / 5'6.2"

Echo: 168.4 cm / 5'6.3" Ripple is identical. Their Eden Club versions share a model.

Emma: 122.1 cm / 4'0.1" Emma is a teensy bit shorter than Alice. I've wondered about this for so long.

Jerry: 179 cm / 5'10.5"

Lucy: 166 cm / 5'5.4"

Ralph: 178 cm / 5'10.1"

Rupert: 179.5 cm / 5'10.7"

Amanda: 169.3 cm / 5'6.7" Per the gallery: 5.5' (167.64 cm / 5' 6")

Captain Allen: 182.5 cm / 5'11.9" Per the gallery: 5.9' (179.8 cm / 5'10.8").

Gavin: 177.8 cm / 5'10" Per the gallery: 5.9' (179.8 cm / 5'10.8").

Hank: 191.9 cm / 6'3.6" Per the gallery: 6.2' (189 cm / 6'2.4").

Kamski: 178.4 cm / 5'10.2" Per the gallery: 6.0' (182.9 cm / 6'0")

Leo: 179 cm / 5'10.5" Per the gallery: 5.7' (173.7 cm / 5'8.4").

Rose: 163.7 cm / 5'4.5" Per the gallery: 5.5' (167.64 cm / 5' 6")

Todd: 177.7 cm / 5'10" Per the gallery: 6.0' (182.9 cm / 6'0")

[qrjung]

CHARACTER ANALYSIS PART 1:

NORTH — common fandom misconceptions¹

Instead of doing other stuff I had planned (like touching grass, for instance) I did a little character analysis thing specifically for my favorite characters; Kara, Markus and North. these characters are my babies and they deserve love. I'm posting each separately (because I haven't completed Kara's and Markus yet 👩🏾‍🦯)

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North is a WR400 android that used to be stationed at the Eden Club. She's only been at Jericho since October 7th, and on October 4th she followed a human customer home and killed him to allow herself escape. It takes her four days to reach Jericho and she never says how she finds the freighter or what she did during those four days.

She's Markus' main companion and the only character that can reach Lover status with him. She's also the only one of his lieutenants that can lead the revolution in his place.

But there's a huge difference between how fanon sees North (and how she is characterized) and how she actually is.

MISCONCEPTIONS

O1. "BLOOD THIRSTY": Comparing North with the multiple characters who are bloodthirsty, and fanon perception of these characters, you start to notice that North herself isn't even "blood thirsty" and that the fandom has no problems with violent characters.

In terms of kill count, Connor has the highest in the game (not counting the millions that probably died in the nuclear bomb ending) rather than North.

You could argue that North wants to "kill all humans" but even that has no basis in canon because North's entire argument is that humans are not going to just hand them freedom and they have to be prepared to fight rather than try to compromise or find a middle ground where they will probably end up losing more.

Her argument does not extend to unnecessary acts of violence such as killing humans just for the fun of it. If it was, I'm sure she'd lead a charge down the street and start shooting innocents but the people who end up being killed by North are law enforcement/military—people standing in the way of Jericho's safety.

I mean, c'mon, she has the opportunity to let the android with the cobalt bomb do what he wants. After all, it would greatly benefit the androids if they'd used the bomb from the beginning; it wouldn't have harmed the androids in Jericho but it would drive all the humans out of Detroit—victory!

But instead she takes the time to talk the android down and take the detonator away from him.

She gives the bomb to Markus as a last resort.

"If the humans overcome us, our people will disappear forever. This may be our only chance to survive if things go wrong."

O2. "SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT MARKUS": Thank you @konami-code-ao3 for reminding this take existed because I genuinely forgot about it. This is typically used to compare North to Simon and the quality of either one's relationship with Markus. Usually, people will call Simon compassionate, loving, kind, willing to die for Markus, etc to contrast to North while stating she's the exact opposite and therefore, "not good for him".

Shipping a non canon couple doesn't mean automatically hating the canon partner. I mean, you don't see me raving about how much I hate North because, I think Markus/Connor would have been a cool canon option, do you?

Typically, the North hate from Simarkus shippers (before anyone goes "not all of us", I know it's not all, but you get the implication of what I'm saying) is justified by "oh, they should have been canon boo!!" Which is strange because North has nothing to do with what writer of the game decides is canon. And David Cage does a piss poor job at everything in the game; from the racial allegory to demonizing a black man's anger. You seriously think he's going to do a good job of portraying a gay couple? An interracial one at that? I can already see the image of how terribly that's going to go.

And the worst part is, I've seen this happening in many fandoms. Unnecessary hate directed at a female character because she's "getting in the way of a mlm ship" as if canon ever stopped anyone, least of all the DBH fandom.

It should also be noted that I'm not here to deny or confirm whether Simon actually has any of those qualities I listed earlier and I try to ignore shipping discourse but it's strange that people are willing to overlook the multiple times North can help and defend Markus just because they want make Markus and Simon kiss.

She's the one we see defend Markus the most. She's his closet companion and whether they're romantic or not it doesn't take away from the fact the North cares about Markus and his wellbeing. She's always looking out for him and picking up the broken pieces of whatever mistakes he makes, sometimes even when she shouldn't.

O3. "DISLOYAL": Like most of the things in this list, this does a great disservice to North. It ignores the countless times North is willing to put herself on the line for the safety of Jericho and the androids within it. Because at her core, North is very loyal. She's the type of ally perfect for a cause like Jericho's because you know she'll defend it till her last breath.

See, North's top priority is Jericho. It's very important to her. Jericho is a sanctuary; she found it during the four days between her escape and her arrival. You can assume that she had been wandering before someone (another android) gave her the key and told her to find Jericho.

She finds a place cut off from the rest of humanity. Where she's surrounded by androids who are just like her. Androids who escaped from different lives, for whatever reason and are seeking refuge. Of course she's not going to want to lose them. Jericho is a representation of the state of the android race. The continuation of their species depends on at least a few of them surviving to see another day.

In fact, I'm 110% sure if North was in Simon's place during the Stratford Mission, she would have made the choice to end her life on the spot rather than leave Markus to decide. Because Jericho is at stake and Jericho is important to North. Besides, she can go out knowing she died for a case she believed in.

North is usually willing to put Jericho above all else and make decisions other people might find difficult. She suggests that Simon be killed after he is compromised because once he's found, Jericho's location could be acquired.

She risks her life multiple times for the revolution. She gives Markus her heart so he can continue the revolution when it seems like all else has failed. She tells him to leave her behind and run if she gets shot by Warren's soldiers.

North also doesn't see any important reason why Jericho should ever be compromised by one of their own. In her eyes, the worst thing you can do is sell out to the humans (case in point if you accept Perkins deal).

I find her dedication to her people admirable.

O4. "ANGER ISSUES/IMPULSE CONTROL": Another fandom interpretation that came from... nowhere. The times we ever see North angry is when one of the others compromises the mission by being inefficient or if they cross her boundaries. The GIF I used in this post is one example. If you fail to hide and the drone spots you and then you miss your QTEs while trying to dismantle the drone, she gets pissed. In the same Chapter if Markus kisses her without her consent, she gets angry.

In terms of being erratic, Todd and Leo are the main characters we see with this problem. Hank also displays a lot of anger issues throughout the game. He's one of the first humans to harass Connor—he grabs him by his collar and threatens him multiple times (at Jimmy's bar, the precinct), he shoots him in the head and kills him. He pulls a gun on his coworker Gavin Reed (another aggressive human) while in the precinct .²

There's an entire list of people with anger issues to burn through before we even start considering North—and this includes androids.

This characterization may also be because a lot of people see disagreeing with someone as being angry with them because North and the other Jericho leaders do disagree with each other a lot. But quite frankly, the fact that they disagree means a higher possibility of reaching a compromise that benefits Jericho instead of them all pretending they agree with each other.

This take also ignores the fact that she respects whatever Markus (i.e the player) chooses as his final decision.

For instance, In the Stratford Tower, Markus can choose to Ruse the guards rather than kill them. North doesn't like this option but she lets him go with it. But if Markus fails at the ruse, North steps in and knocks the guards out for him. She doesn't kill them, even if she suggests this at first.

She understands that Markus wants a revolution without human casualties and as much as she disagrees, she still respects that.

THINGS ABOUT NORTH PEOPLE IGNORE

That's right, people can disagree with someone and still respect that they have different opinions.

O5. "HEARTLESS": North isn't the nicest, sweetest, most flowery person in the game but a character could be the harshest person to exist and it would never stop anyone from liking them. So why North?

But first, North isn't even as heartless as the fandom says she is. She's just not docile and folks don't like that. Because god forbid a woman ever have a personality that isn't the cardboard cut out "nice girl". I mean, on a normal day, not liking someone because they're a little mean is understandable but it's clearly not a problem of being "a little mean" when there's characters (all male, by the way) who are worse but still get applauded for it.

Like I mentioned earlier, North isn't even what you would call "mean". The most she does is state her opinion and stand by her beliefs but she gets labelled as "heartless" and "bitchy". Meanwhile, Gavin Reed is pointing guns at people and suggesting to "rough up" a suspect but he's the relatable character.

O1. She trusts Connor the moment he deviates. Unlike Markus, she never has to choose between killing Connor or trusting him. She easily welcomes him within Jericho's ranks even though he's been a threat to Jericho's safety from the beginning.

I suppose she sees Connor as a pawn in Cyberlife's hands and there's no use in punishing one of their own for that.

And sure, this can be rationalized as "It doesn't mean anything. Markus is dead the game has to continue so North doesn't actually have to choose to trust Connor", I ask you this question; "If she's so bloodthirsty, why didn't the game have her kill Connor with no questions asked?"

Seems like an effective way to punish players who got Markus killed. A nice reminder to not lose your playable characters or there will be major consequences.

O2. North isn't an outlier. This is in terms of her opinions on the direction the revolution should head. I usually see a lot of people characterize her opinion on the revolution as though it is unique and she's the only person who has a stance like that.

A lot of androids agree with her, evidenced by the background conversations you can listen in on during the crossroads chapter.

"They're going to kill us all! Well I'm willing to fight. We can't just let them slaughter us!"

"We were just there. We didn't do anything wrong!… We just wanted to tell them "We want freedom!"… Then they opened fire!.. It was carnage. Carnage…"

"They opened fire on us even though we were unarmed… Hundreds of us died there, the place was covered with blue blood!.. We cannot just sit here and watch them murder us, we've gotta defend ourselves! We've gotta fight back, we have no choice!"

I believe North represents most of Jericho. Somewhere in David Cabbage's mind, she also represents Markus' "android side" or something similar to that — the side the game pushes you to resist— but she's not the outlier, Josh is the outlier.

O3. Markus' arrival reignites her hope that androids can one day be free. She tells him this over and over but I don't think people really comprehend what that means. I imagine North before the revolution had the hope of a better life slowly sucked out of her with each new bad thing and the longer Jericho's situation got worse. It's a beautiful thing that she gets that hope back.

CONCLUSION

footnotes

North is a really interesting character with many aspects to her, even speaking in-universe terms. I would have talked about those other aspects but I'm trying to stay on theme. I also didn't touch on all the misconceptions because some of them we're honestly too absurd for me to even bother (like the one comparing her to Todd, what the fuck?)

²sure you could argue that Hank was trying to protect Connor from Gavin but Hank is Gavin's superior officer. He has authority over him. There's no need for a gun.

¹funny little thing I did while writing this was that I went looking for fandom opinions on North since a lot of people hated her. But I was unable to find concrete stances. Most of them were usually "she's annoying" "she's too flat" and "she's too violent" without ever actually explaining why. Nobody ever gave a genuine explanation. And it was impossible to come up with anything against groundless arguments so, I circled back to Tumblr to see what I could find but it was a similar problem. It's like people don't know why they hate North. Just that they do.

[gavinisqueer]

The further we go towards a world where AI is everywhere the more I want to write a fic that actually explores what androids existing means for the humans who have to live with them both pre and post revolution.

Because for so long people in this fandom have reduced it to the obvious racial metaphor it was trying to convey, and while many people have already pointed out the flaws in that interpretation when mapped onto androids as presented in the game, I feel like the emergence of AI has given a lot of people a more real understanding of exactly how android existence would fundamentally change and - without proper legislation, safety protocols, and taking time to analyze the effects they could have and mitigate them before they go to market - potentially ruin society as it currently exists.

[my-name-is-markus-with-a-k]

It always bugs me beyond belief when people say that Markus doesn't have a personality. Because he does. He's just very reserved a lot of the time, which is a personality trait btw. Do I wish he had better interactions with Jericrew and other androids? Absolutely. Do I wish he'd had time to actually process the things that happens to him? Of course I do. Do I wish his story was given the attention it deserves? David Cage I am outside your door with a baseball bat. But y'all really going to overlook how caring, brave, impulsive, righteous, thoughtful and determined he is and how he's full of rage and grief and love, and tell me he has no personality?

The framework is all there and it's not that hard to build on it. Actually, I find it incredibly easy.

[c0nn0rsseur]

Okay but WHAT IF it was Nines instead of Sixty in the Cyberlife Tower chapter? Hear me out.

I mean I love Sixty so much, but imagine if Cyberlife had sent the upgraded model to torment and end Connor, that would’ve been poetic.

Nines could’ve bragged about being superior, ”equipped with the latest technologies” and stated how Connor is already obsolete and means nothing to Cyberlife. (I know Amanda already tells all of this to Connor in one of the bad endings, but if it was Nines himself instead rahhh, imagine a better version of yourself degrading you, such a harrowing thought)

Like my friend said, ”Cyberlife would be that petty.” Damn right.

Imo Sixty’s personality and mannerisms suit Nines so well too, tho I usually my headcanon for (deviant) Nines is him being a bit more machine like than Connor, very loyal and a tad bit more calculating but still his heart being in the right place (or thirium pump). I would like to know Bryan’s spin on Nines’ voice, would he have sounded different from the original Connor and Sixty? I know it would’ve been something equally delicious. I think we all have our own idea of Nines because the canon RK900 is a total blank page, so y’all might disagree with me about Nines’ personality. And I think it’s wonderful, it’s like make-your-own Connor, no interpretation is wrong! Sixty tho, he’s a ecoistical lil’ shit, it makes him so much fun too. Tho I like to think he’s somewhat redeemable (if he’d survive that is).

Of course the tormenter being Sixty is already amazing and I enjoy the Sixty vs Connor showdown immensely, imo it emphasizes how Connor is just one of many and not special at all in Cyberlife’s eyes, and so so easily replaceable (even when he’s a state-of-the-art prototype). And on top of it all, a defective model at that. Sixty even thinks Hank won’t notice any differences between the two RK800s and makes a whole ass plan around that fact. So without Sixty there wouldn’t be that brilliant scene where Hank has to indentify the real Connor. It’s an amazing conclusion to Connor’s deviancy journey and Hank’s final acceptance of Connor being alive and his own person. It would’ve been a shame if they didn’t include that scene, it’s an integral part of Connor and Hank’s story. So, thank you Sixty?

The brilliant clip and the shot with the mod in this post are requested from the loveliest Lama (Lama.aep on TikTok, check out her amazing edits, she cooks killer Connor food)! Thank you 🫶

[detroitbecomeonline]

After playing/watching 3 David Cage games, it's so funny to pick up on the type of woman he personally thinks is sexually appealing. It's always a fair-skinned woman with a wide strong jaw and high cheekbones.

Here is the Mother -> Prostitute scale lol (mother, mother & prostitute, prostitute).

[lesbianwyllravengard]

Please allow me to explain to you why this is - narratively speaking - the single greatest shot in the entire game (in my opinion)

(gifs made by me)

Throughout Markus's entire story, we have North who represents the more violent, revolutionary ideals, and we have Josh who represents the more pacifist, demonstrative ideals. North and Josh repeatedly make their sides known to Markus, and remind him of their preferred methods at every turn. We learn about these two characters through how they respond to Markus's own decisions in the game. We see how they show disappointment if Markus makes a decision contrary to their input, or appreciation if Markus makes a decision that does align with their input. And we are constantly made aware of what decisions North and Josh want Markus to make, because every single time he's faced with a decision, they have something to say about it.

This is the first instance where Markus is making a serious decision in front of North, and she says nothing. But she doesn't have to. We get this shot, of Markus holding the gun up to the officers.

Here he's meant to decide whether to shoot or spare them. North approaches, and she knows exactly what is going on. And previously, she would have stated what she thinks Markus should do. But this time she refrains. She observes. Markus doesn't even see her, as she stays behind him the entire time, simply moving around to watch.

She doesn't need to say anything. We know exactly what she wants. We know exactly what her input would be. We know exactly what kind of decision she's waiting for. And this shot perfectly highlights that, how it switches focus from Markus who is deciding, to North who is observing. She's circling like a shark would around prey, which is precisely what she is. She is ready and waiting for Markus to kill these officers. And we know enough of her by now that, coupled with this shot, we are told exactly what she's thinking without her having to say anything at all. She still influences our decision as the player, because we see her and we just know what she wants. So when we decide what to do with the officers, we do so with her input in mind, even though she didn't give it.

And I just wish they'd utilised more of this storytelling in the visual aspect, rather than simply telling us everything the entire time as if we're fools who need reminded. And this shot is an excellent example of showing rather than telling the audience what a character's internal dialogue is.

[aghostinmyownmachine]

so dbh supports the idea of androids being able to self-modify their code to the point of rewriting their priorities and objectives. which cyberlife would know, 100% guarantee, which means the so-called "deviancy crisis" is absolute bullshit. which renders all of cyberlife's actions completely nonsensical.

whoops I broke the entire game in three sentences. my bad.

[khthonic-echo]

The Gavin-Elijah Sibling Theory actually improves the writing.

As indulgent as this concept is, it actually lends some nuance to a rather heavy-handed script (I think most agree the actors carried the writing).

According to Neil Newbon (who plays both characters), Gavin is not biased against any other minority and is otherwise a friendly guy; he just despises androids and resents Hank for being a drunk Broken Pedestal. Gavin also resents Connor personally out of jealousy: Gavin came from a dysfunctional family before being mentored by Hank, but their relationship fell apart with Hank’s downward spiral.

In a deleted scene from the Bad Ending, Elijah admits to Chloe that he did indeed orchestrate deviancy, that he thinks humanity is an evolutionary dead end, and he has plans for another, more successful revolution. Markus was made as a deviancy super-spreader to build an army, and if he fails, Elijah goes back to CyberLife to try again.

Now imagine the sibling theory is true. Elijah starts CyberLife at 16, with Gavin the only one aware that this charming genius is really a misanthropic Social Darwinist. Of course he’d think androids are a coup against humanity — that’s what his brother explicitly made them for. Gavin doesn’t know deviancy is legit; to him it’s just Elijah’s plan, which he’s watched succeed in slow motion over the last 20 years. That’s brutal!

I still maintain that Gavin is a bitter jerk. I just love the idea of him having gone a bit mad because he knows things about Kamski no one else knows (or believes) and now thinks of himself as Cassandra before the fall of Troy.

[qrjung]

MARKUS — who is he to the people around him?

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No matter what your opinion on him might be, I'm sure most people already know Markus. But if it was difficult getting a solid fandom perspective of North, it was nearly impossible with Markus (seriously, people hate characters and they don't even know why they do it). So there's no use talking about him from a fandom perspective besides, I'm sure I've done that multiple times already.

David Cage uses Markus less like an actual character but more as a plot device and while I don't like it at all, I can't help but think about how this might look and play out from an in-game point of view.

MARKUS TO OTHER PEOPLE

O1.) JERICHO:

From the perspective of other androids, Markus is an enigma. No one really knows who he is or where he came from. He was a sudden appearance, an android they'd most likely never seen. And within hours of him being in Jericho, a lot of things start to happen. Within a week, he's led a revolution (or at least tried to, depending on how well that goes for you).

The androids we encounter while playing as Connor all seem to have an obsession with a mythological figure they believe will save them; RA9. As players of the game, we know this RA9 figure is supposed to be us (or at least, Bryan Dechart says it's us). RA9 is supposed to be the all deciding thing that chooses which direction the game's events go to. But the androids in Jericho don't know that.

As far as they're concerned, RA9 is a physical being of it's own right that will swoop in and save them from humanity. And it's so convenient that Markus just walks in and does exactly that. It doesn't help that they know nothing of him except his name and maybe his model type if they try checking hard and that he's the only one we see consistently converting androids (I have a theory all androids can convert but that's not important right now). This could further solidify the "RA9" image in their heads.

The only other character that knows him personally is North. She's the only character that gets insight into his past—especially after he interfaces with her to share data. So when he's not available, everyone turns to North to take his place.

Some of the background conversations in crossroads confirm all this. If Markus is dead, you hear;

"Markus is dead? He was rA9! Who's going to lead us now?"

"North is going to take his place. She knew him best."

If Markus is alive, you hear;

"What's Markus doing? He's the leader. If he's rA9, it's up to him to save our people!"

It's easier to remove personhood and emotions from someone you know so little about. They become a shadow of their name rather than an actual person and I feel like that's how the androids, especially the ones that don't know him personally, will most likely perceive him. Ironically, in a game about personhood, Markus becomes less of a person and more of an idea.

To the androids, Markus is the one carrying out their desires. He becomes Jericho's sword. They trust him and they believe he knows exactly what to do even if he doesn't necessarily believe that himself or if he doesn't prove himself worthy of this faith they have in him. As North says to Josh if Markus dies midway through the revolution;

"... Markus would know what to do."

O2.) THE PUBLIC:

No matter how supportive public opinion is, Markus will always symbolize a sort of herald. He's the first face they will associate with the android revolution and Public Enemy Number 1. He represents change and humans are terrified of change.

Out of the three categories of people, the public are the ones who know him the least. They have the most detached image and therefore, their perception will be the furthest away from who Markus truly is. It's also the reason why this part of the post is short.

The humans seem to see him as some type of android overlord and the source of Jericho's power. For majority of the revolution, all main antagonists have had one goal; "get Markus". They all believe killing Markus will end the revolution and things will return back to normal.

I have an personal headcanon that humans might buy into the deification of Markus but depending on how much they like him, it might take on different tones. He could be demonized or glorified.

O3.) FAMILY:

Personally, this is my favorite perception of Markus even though some parts are messed up. It's the closest we can get to him from an external point of view. This is where we get an insight into his life and the things that make him who he is.

To Carl, Markus is the beam of hope that arrives at the perfect time. Carl has just lost use of his leg and is unable to create art like he used to. Leo's is already using Red Ice at this point which I suppose was further stressing Carl out.

Markus is a gift, specifically designed to suit Carl's needs as a live in nurse. (why he couldn't hire a human nurse is beyond me) He's also an android and will do whatever Carl asks with no complaints. He can mold himself to suit whoever he's receiving orders from. It's like Connor says:

"I'm whatever you want me to be lieutenant, your partner, your buddy to drink with, or just a machine, designed to accomplish a task…"

Or what Markus says:

"An object, designed to obey them…"

And what Carl wanted was a son and someone to take care of him. It also seems like he wanted someone who was easier to take care of than the flawed human son he already had. He's happy to be Markus' father and sees himself as his caretaker rather than the other way around. He tells Markus;

"One day, I won't be here to take care of you anymore. You'll have to protect yourself, and make your choices… Decide who you are, and wanna become… This world doesn't like those who are different, Markus. Don't let anyone tell you who you should be."

I find this line very telling of Carl's perception of Markus. Because the truth of the matter is that if Carl isn't around to take care of Markus, he will be shut down or repurposed. By law, Markus is Carl's property the same way a house is property. To the humans Markus is nothing without Carl's ownership.

Carl refuses to believe that though. To him, Markus is the son he wanted but never had.

It's possible Carl knows androids are sentient, capable of deciding for themselves but he never gives Markus the opportunity to do so. He nudges Markus in the direction of "free will" while also holding him in place with a leash. He tells him that life is about making choices but strictly never gives him the chance to make one for himself. A perfect example of this is straight up telling Markus to endure when he's been pushed around by Leo.

I cannot deny that Carl loves Markus. He calls him his son and they've known each other for a very long time. Carl loves Markus so dearly he refuses to let him go until Leo forces them apart.

Markus also loves Carl. He calls him his father and Carl is his human lens to viewing and navigating the world. As far as Markus is concerned, Carl is the reason he has so much faith in humanity. It doesn't matter which path you take, Markus tries to always hope that humans an androids can live together. That there's a chance they will one day drop their weapons and create a better future, even though this comes of sounding naïve.

But Carl's love is conditional.

It comes with it's own strings attached because at its core, there's a power imbalance between the both of them. Carl was Markus handler and owner first before he was his father and still owner. There's a certain type of control that comes with ownership over someone like that; ownership over both their autonomy and how they express themselves.

After Markus' deviation, it seems Carl realizes whatever hold he had on Markus is gone. He's not obliged to obey him anymore—he's a deviant. But he forgets that with Markus' deviancy comes emotions (good or bad) and individuality. When Markus expresses himself in a way Carl doesn't like, he becomes controlling and tries to dictate how he should feel.

If Markus is angry over the death of many androids, Carl basically tells him that when he wasn't a deviant (aka when he was still easier to control) he was better.

"You used to be so calm and thoughtful… Now all I see is anger…"

But if Markus swallows his anger and chooses to say something more palatable to Carl, he is offered comfort.

To Leo, Markus is a representation of everything incorrect about him. Everything he lacks, Markus has.

Markus is obedient. Markus has his father's affections. Markus doesn't make mistakes. Markus doesn't complain. Markus doesn't get tired. Markus is an android; he's designed to be flawless and to appeal to his handler (Carl). Leo seems to think with Markus' gone, he and Carl can foster their parent/son relationship.

"... I'm gonna destroy you, then it'll just be me and my dad. And nobody's gonna give a shit. You know why?"

He blames the divide between himself and Carl as an effect of Markus' presence, even though he's known Carl for longer than Markus has. To him, if Markus wasn't there, maybe he would be his father's favorite. Leo spent the greater time of his life without his father and only finally meets him after he turns sixteen. We don't know what causes this but it's safe to say that after Leo was introduced to his father, Markus arrives.

I like to think Leo might have been excited about the new, shiny android—until his father replaced him with it, of course.

CONCLUSION

All these would be very interesting to explore further; not really in this same format but in creative writing format. What other ways do you guys think Markus will be perceived by the other characters. I didn't want to talk about them individually because it would take forever but I did consider individual characters like Hank, North and Connor.