#But the fact that you could make a canon based argument for it is hilarious to me

[lonely-space-ace]

I see your “Ruby Sunday is Susan’s daughter” theory and raise you “Ruby Sunday is actually Susan’s mother” theory

[robintherobiner]

Thoughts, explanations, and all that shit i had while writing my latest oneshot

Stand up comedians do NOT make good kidnappers - Robin_The_Robiner - Batman - All Media Types [Archive of Our Own]

SO first up the name. Where did it come from? God knows. I started this fic like ages ago, wrote Steph's first section, and then promptly forgot about it for three months only to come back and scribble the rest out. I dont remember how i came up with the name, but i still think its hilarious so,,

Who is Cassowary? This universes Robin, duh! Since Damian was the first, i thought he'd go for a more intimidating bird. These birds have really sharp claws, and leave wounds similar to those of a blade. Huh. Who do we know who is really good with a sword? Exactly 😎

Writing Steph was hard because I don't know her very well, so I may have projected onto her a little bit (hence the excessive death jokes 😅). I hope it came across that Steph is a detective, like Bruce, but that she's doesn't lazer-focus on that stuff like him. Thats why she focuses on describing Junior at first, not the room she's in or the fact she's chained up. She knows these things, but she only brings them up when relevant. What good is wallowing over being chained up when you could be making fun of your kidnapper, huh?

I'm a bit worried that i didn't make it obvious enough that there is time between Steph's and Bruce's sections. Thats why when we finish Steph's third bit, she's shitting on Junior for dressing like the Joker, but then in the final bit, she's aware that it's Tim. The parts aren't happening at the same time, or right after the other. I hope that was obvious, but im not sure.

BRUCE'S BIT!!! I saw a post once saying that Bruce separates his personas very hard, and i really liked that. When he's talking about Batman, it's only referred to as Batman. When he's having more emotional thoughts, it's Bruce. And, of course, when he's dealing with Crystal (who i don't know very well so probably wasn't well written MY BAD YALL), he's Brucie. The guilt is in all of them, though. Fun stuff!

A big part of Stephanie and Bruce's relationship in canon is, from what i can tell, tense because of the way he treated her when he first met her. BUT in this fic, it's a bit lessened because Steph chalks his shittyness to the fact that he recently lost a son. Also, i think in canon a big part of why Bruce refused to get close to Steph was because of how she reminded him of Jason, which obviously isn't a problem in this universe. Bruce and Steph are still tense, but this time she has the eldest kid on her side pretty easily, cuz Damian feels guilt over Tim LOL

The death!! It's not overly explained, but I do have Tim's death all planned out and shit. It's a mix of the Joker Junior scene from Batman Beyond : Return of The Joker, and then also a little bit of canon. Instead of Bruce being out of Gotham, like in the film, it's that they have an argument. Similar to Jason and Garzonas situation, in how Bruce is angry at the thought of his partner killing, but more so using the Boomerang arc from canon (Tim wanting to kill his Dad's murderer)

Junior's mental state is wild. I'm not writing him with any particular mental illness, mostly because I'm not at all knowledgeable enough to portray something correctly. Instead I'm basing him off of Joker Junior's intro scene, and also me during some of my darkest moments! It's not Pit Rage (i don't lie how much the fandom pushes that onto Jason, similar to the Tim-Doesn't-Sleep idea in which it wasn't canon but then it got popular and was made so, i think) and instead just a extremely traumatised 17 year old!

The teaparty scene was put in there because I wanted Tim to have a hobby that he could share with his mom (because god knows everyone hates Janet because they mess up her character and only look at fanon) and that also can be used to show his mental state. Hence, collecting figurines, and playing with them! Yippee! Thanks to my pal Leo over on discord for suggesting this hobby!! (it was originally stuffed animals but I thought Batburger toys would work better)

Damian and Duke both were the first kids, instead of Dick and Barbara. Instead of Batgirl, we have Batkid, and then instead of Oracle, we have Signal. Damian is Shrike, because that is the most common hero name I see for him and I couldn't think of another. I may go back and change it to Nightwing, because I like the meaning of the name, but it would come from Superboy (Jon) instead of Superman in this universe, so maybe it comes later on? Not sure. need to think on that!!

Drake Manor was, in canon, only bought after Jack woke up from the coma. But, i decided to take the fandom route in which the Drakes always lived there, simply because timeline wise it works better for me. Also in canon, Jack doesn't need the wheelchair by the end, but for my fic, he's not out of the coma long enough for that. I also added a fun basement which defo doesn't exist in canon, so just turn a blind eye to that!

If you saw the original post, you'd know that Bruce was supposed to find Steph through a series of taunting clues. I changed my mind though, because I'm not good at clues, mysteries, or cases. So, a gift with the address is sort of dissapointing, but who cares?

Steph's feelings about Tim are sort of iffy. A really popular headcanon is that Jason was Tim's robin, and thats not true. I'm pretty sure Tim just,, didn't care about Jason? Idk exactly how he felt, but whatever. Steph doesn't hate Tim, in this fic, she just sort of hates how he was as Cassowary. Bruce is full of guilt and won't say a bad word about him, but has plenty of criticism for Steph, which leads to a sort of resentment. He was Cassowary though, so there is also some adoration in her heart. Basically, she switches how she feels about him depending on the situation.

Jack and Robin. In this universe, Jack doesn't know Tim is a superhero. Tim does still take a break, but it's to spend time with his dad after he awakens, not because he's threatened. Dana also (unfortunately) isn't around in this fic, so Jack has more time to spend with Tim. It's sort of a win-lose situation though. More time with Tim so they get closer, but without Dana to calm him, Jack's little bouts of fury are stronger (remember how he fucking ripped out a TV??) so their relationship is more strained, which is why Tim does go back to being Cassowary, just for a bit, before his dad dies.

Hints are sprinkled in Steph's bits that tell on Tim's identity. Not many, because I'm really bad at hints and subtlety, but there are a few. Mentions of shock burns (the electrocution duh), Zesti instead of tea (which is Tim's canon favourite drink, not coffee!!), and his wish that Steph stops being a hero.

Tims motivations are a reverse of Jasons canon ones. Jason forgives Bruce for not saving him, but is mad he wasn't avenged. Tim forgives Bruce for not avenging him, but is mad he wasn't saved. Aint that fun? Thats why instead of beating her up, Tim kidnaps Steph for three days to resemble the three weeks he was held captive before he died. Yippee, allegories! (i think that word isn't right, but i can't think of the right one??!! english is HARD)

WOW i had a lot of thoughts and explanations and shit for that oneshot, huh? 🤭

[kalinara]

There is no position that gives me a headache more than anti-anti fans.

Look, I get that "anti-fandoms" are annoying.

It is ANNOYING to post things about ships and characters and have people make assumptions about you based on your feelings about fictional characters.

I've had it happen to me. Hilariously, it wasn't even about one of my actual problematic ships, but because I had a "meh" reaction to the idea of pairing characters from the Umbrella Academy of all things.

But, I'll disclaim right now, I have plenty of ships that an "anti" could confront me about. There's a reason I don't always stay logged in when I peruse AO3. No one needs to review my fic reading history, including me.

So yeah, I get that it's annoying. And some folks take it too far. There's no excuse for threats or insults. Personally, I don't think this behavior is limited to antis, but as mentioned, I've seen some do it.

But I will always have a knee jerk disgust toward people who act like the very act of criticizing a ship or the reception of a character is the same damn thing.

There's some Bat-shipping post going around that equates people being disgusted by Bat-shipping to homophobia and real world oppression. And no, sorry. That's not the same thing.

I think you can definitely make the argument that moral panic can lead to some terrible decisions, particularly legislatively. Frederic Wortham decided that Batman and Robin were in a pedophiliac relationship, after all, and eventually we all got saddled with the comic code.

But, you know, we can still point out that IF Batman and Robin were in a relationship, while Robin was canonically 12 years old, in a comic book intended for children, that would have been categorically NOT OKAY.

Fans love to try to sidestep any criticism by equating their critics with some kind of censorship boogeyman. As though the average fandom critic has any kind of ability to legislate a form of media. Heck, disgusted fans can't even get AO3 to set limits on blatant extreme underage shit.*

(* Disclaimer: I respect AO3's very consistent position on content bans and censorship. I may not personally agree with every decision that they make, but I respect that it's their right to make it. My point is that the average "anti" has no real influence or power here.)

Here's the thing. If you ship something gross. More power to you. I do too. But you also have to deal with the fact that someone out there is going to say "Hey, that's gross." They may not be talking to you directly. Common fandom etiquette means that they probably shouldn't (unless you're invading the anti-tags, in which case, you're asking for it). But they're allowed to have opinions and say them. Free speech works both ways.

The older I get, the more protective I find myself of the right of people to be negative about things. "Don't yuck someone's yum?" I can yuck if I damn well want. I just need to remember that it's not your problem.

My own position is that fandom goes too far to protect the enjoyment of their largest groups, to the point where anything that could possibly cast a pall on said enjoyment is quickly shushed. We can't point out that a ship involves abusive tropes, because this is fiction. We can't grimace at the thought of an incestuous relationship, because that's judgmental. We can't point out hopefully-unconscious examples of racism and sexism because that would make someone feel bad and discourage them from writing.

I still remember how slash fanfic writers started bemoaning about how they can't possibly write FinnPoe anymore because they keep getting called out for racist tropes. The idea of actually making an effort to IMPROVE somehow never seemed to make it into the discussion.

Here's the thing. If I don't like a pairing, I'm going to say so. If I don't like a character (or maybe more accurately, fandom's treatment of said character), I'm going to say so. If I don't like a trope, for whatever reason, I'm going to say so. It's not my job to muzzle my own opinions to make random people on the internet feel better about how they get their rocks off. Why do you care what I think anyway?

Again, harassment's bad. But I think a lot of "anti-antis" are quick to equate "having a negative opinion that makes me feel bad" with an attack. Not the same thing and we all might be a lot happier if we kept that in mind.

[utilitycaster]

oh PLEASE tell us your thoughts about the Daggerheart speculations

So with the caveat that this is somewhat secondhand because I do not deign to go to the CR Reddit, from what I understand and from what I've seen reposted/expounded upon elsewhere, there's been a theory that the Campaign 3 plot is building to the destruction of the gods and a radical change in the magic system so as to support a switch to Daggerheart. Now: while I have my thoughts on where things are going narratively, this is mostly irrelevant, actually, because the logic behind this theory is so fucking stupid.

Critical Role does not, in fact, pay royalties or owe anything to WoTC (and in fact get money from WoTC for the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount; Call of the Netherdeep; and D&D Beyond ads). The reason the gods are referred to so often by epithets (eg: Wildmother rather than Melora) is explicitly to skirt WoTC IP in non-WoTC materials (such as in The Nine Eyes of Lucien or the Tal'Dorei settings). They do not have to kill off the gods to split off from WoTC and it would not be the gods that would be an issue had (for example) the OGL gone through as originally planned. The concept of "this is a fantasy world with gods" is, obviously, not a copyrightable thing. So this has nothing to do with avoiding WoTC fees. Any choice to move to a different system would be motivated by the cast's personal preferences (and, frankly, a desire to make their own money off Daggerheart).

There are reasons to stay in Exandria but it isn't necessary. I think switching systems or worlds will both come with a potential loss of an audience, but also the potential gain of a new one. You could just be like "we're doing Daggerheart in a whole new setting"; d20 and TAZ do this and there's no reason Critical Role couldn't.

It's entirely possible to switch systems within Exandria without killing off the gods; you're simply telling a different story. A Familiar Problem and the first two Honey Heist one-shots are, hilariously, essentially consistent with main campaign canon; they're just about a bunch of wacky animals from the perspective of said animals. What's more, not only have magic systems been indicated to have changed for various other reasons (including the gods introducing them, or just through research by wizards); in real life, the cast switched from Pathfinder 1e to D&D 5e in preparation for the stream, with no in-world reason given. They could just. switch.

Here's where I will admit I may be missing something based on my Reddit ignorance: from what I understand the reason this theory has recently collapsed is because Daggerheart is a 2d12 system, and for reasons I truly do not know, the proponents of this idea believed that for it to work, Daggerheart did still need to be a d20 system. Again: I have no fucking clue why this is; if it's a radically different magical system and a fundamentally altered world I don't see why the dice you use to tell the story can't be different (also the rolls you get with 2d12 are not in fact radically different from the spread of a d20 in the first place, so. bad at math as well as logic.)

Anyway: I think it's entirely possible that CR will, if they have a future long-form campaign (not a guarantee in and of itself), switch to Daggerheart. But if so: no guarantee or inherent need for it to be in Exandria, no guarantee or inherent need to change the fundamental cosmology of Exandria to support a system switch, and absolutely no reason that to support this hypothetical upon a hypothetical upon a hypothetical you would specifically need a d20 ttrpg system.

Anyway. I dislike wild speculation when it's portrayed as theory but if people are like "total bonkers guess based on nothing in particular" at least they're showing some self-awareness, even though I'm not personally interested in that kind of speculation. But a lot of "theories" are structured as an argument while relying on assumptions constructed from thin air (if that) and I think it's valuable to point that out; unfortunately people get really mad when you do because you are, kind of, calling them stupid. Which they are, but people don't like to be told that.

[abundantchewtoys]

HS^2 re: p534-576

Woof (pun not intended), it's a doozy, this one.

Jade as doting mother was hilariously embarassing. But it seems her reasons to have a child in the first place stem from her intense loneliness, exacerbated by her celebrity status.

Meanwhile, Rose's motivation to carry the child... There's two ways to interpret it. The least complimentary is that she's just as manipulative as Dirk, using her powers to 'okay' a disgraceful decision because she'll be forgiven in the end anyway. I hope she actually wanted to see if she could do something her powers couldn't predict the outcome of. It would mean she's aware of the Candy timeline's nature of decreasing truthfulness, relevance and necessity and is trying to do something about it. The fact that she's so dismissive about Earth C's people, as is Jade, could point in that direction.

In fact, it would seem that, for all that the Candy timeline appeared to be a 'saccharine end state' for most of the kids, they do seem to be aware that even beyond the totalitarian government, there's something else fundamentally wrong with the timeline?

Meanwhlie, Yiffany not talking is so funny when you think about it. Even while we're being her, she's just too cool to lower herself to such base characterizational devices.

Would be funny if she's treated as the teen version of hypothetical older Maggie Simpson of Beyond Canon. Implied to be witty & talkative but never shown. :p

What else? So, uh, Tavros & Yiffany are acquainted, and Yiffy probably got locked up/kept hidden in Tavros' house when she was away from boarding school. Like a perverse Rapunzel. Making Tavros not just her biological uncle but also foster brother, oh jeez. So, uh, it might also mean her enmity with Gamzee's corpse stemmed from actual, in-person interactions with the clown.

Meenah's probably calling to let Rose & Kanaya know that Jane's coming to the meteor too.

So, the Point. I'm assuming it's to do with the device behind the curtain, beneath the meteor.

Spitballing & exchanging theories with Blaperile, I'm assuming it's a way for the Candy people to travel into the Meat timeline.

I wouldn't like it to be one way, for one thing because some people might not want to leave. For another, what would The Influencers even be able to do?

It could be a Sburb copy for the new kids to boot a session with & interact with the Deltritus gang?

Would be funny to have a sort of Hivebent situation going on with 2 separate teams turning out to be entering the same session.

If it's a giant version of the Hiveswap device, maybe the Candy & Meat timeline meteors get swapped (a literal swapping of hives).

Then maybe Candy Earth C with the Meat meteor turns out to be Alternate Calliope's home timeline, and the reverse for Caliborn/Lord English?

It would seem Jade was carrying around a stuffed corpse in her sylladex! Of course Adult Dave (now Davebot) is the most likely person. It could lead to Davebot exploding if his corpse is ever prototyped! But then we'd have a new version of Davesprite...

If it were Candy Dirk, we'd get Dirksprite: aka Arquiusprite minus Equius minus autoresponder.

With how Rose's mom got touched on in the argument, what if Jade had stuffed Mom and Dad? As Blaperile pointed out to me, while John & Jade had a funeral for them pre-retcon, we don't know that they did post-retcon, do we?

No chance for a Johnsprite beyond Terezi prototyping Meat John, though! Would've been funny to have Johnsprite^2 or *2. But unless Jade took John's original body (from his quest bed) from LOWAS before it exploded, we won't have that. As she never found the bodies for John & Davesprite in her timeline.

(Yeah I'm just grasping at straws to get a POV & further fleshing out for Dad, can't help it.)

As for the newspost, turns out I missed the one from Feb 1st. Wow, Vast Error has gotten the Hussie stamp of approval and now falls under the HICU protection and can monetize on their work!

I haven't read it yet, but I know from experience how engaging fanventures can be, so good for them!

And oh geez, so much unvaulted commentary to read on Patreon. :B

[unhingedmarvelandclassicwhobuff]

I wish I was exaggerating, but I’ve seen a ton of people unironically call her a Nazi.

Anyway, I know a Wanda defense post was circulating through here just a few days ago, but screw it, I’ve had this on my drive for the longest time, so here y’all go. This is every argument I can think of for why Wanda deserved at least some mercy for her actions in Age of Ultron (some of these are taken from the prelude comics, which are canon):

Their parents were killed by a Stark Industries bomb at age 10. Such a horrific experience that young would make anyone hate Tony, even into adulthood. If Tony wasn’t a negligent warmonger, then this never would’ve happened. (Something I find funny is that the people who try to villainize Wanda for her hatred of Tony are often the same ones who think Tony was completely justified when he tried to murder Bucky in Siberia).

Sokovia was based on Eastern European countries that are full of anti-American propaganda, and no matter what age you are, that can be very persuasive.

Wanda and Pietro were approached by List for the experiments. They did not actively seek out Shieldra.

Steve’s conversation with Maria Hill offers some insight into their mindset as well; they just wanted to help their country and volunteered to be made into warriors the same way he was. (It will never not be hilarious to me that anti-Team Cap people claim that saying this means that "Steve is a Nazi sympathizer". Like... what?)

The riots they took part in were in fact orchestrated by Hydra to draw out potential candidates for the experiments. They were being manipulated.

Their motivation wasn't just petty revenge; it was to help their struggling country (hence why when Agatha asks Wanda about it years later, she says "we wanted to change the world". A lot of people took this to mean she was a loyal Hydra agent, when this could not be further from the truth). The possibility of vengeance for their parents was nothing but a silver lining.

The twins were told that they were working for SHIELD, not Hydra. As far as I know, it has never been confirmed if they knew the Avengers worked for SHIELD.

The very first time we see the twins, they are in prison cells. This alone should tell you that they are not equal members of Hydra.

This one is based on nothing but headcanon, but here we go: in the first Avengers film, the team was acting irrationally after just a few minutes in the same room as Loki’s scepter. Wanda and Pietro were exposed to it for a much longer time. I would argue that it amplified their desire for vengeance to the point where their judgement was impaired. It's not a coincidence that they only turned on Ultron after the scepter was dismantled.

After Strucker's base was destroyed, the twins did not try to carry on Hydra's agenda; they went back to living on the streets of Novi Grad and helping civilians (there is even a deleted scene where Pietro helps out some homeless children). They only got involved again because Ultron recruited them. Had he never come online they likely would have become heroes of Sokovia and eventually either joined the Avengers or at least made peace with them anyway.

What Wanda did to the Avengers is not mind-rape. What she did was show them their fears (or I guess in Steve and Nat’s case a glimpse of the past). How they responded to that is on them.

The Ultron program was in the works LONG before Wanda showed Tony his fears, so don’t you dare try to tell me that she planted the idea in his head. You also can’t tell me that she made him believe that “a suit of armor around the world” was a good idea, because he says the exact same thing at the start of Endgame with no prompting whatsoever. She didn’t even reawaken the idea like so many Tony stans love to claim; he thought of it 

As far as Wanda knew, the only thing the scepter did was either kill you or give you powers. She most likely expected Tony to try and recreate Strucker's experiments on her and get himself killed trying to get powers. She had absolutely no way of knowing the scepter would allow Ultron to exist as he did.

Wanda’s illusions incapacitated everyone she touched in Africa. She most likely expected the same thing to happen to Bruce. Also, Johannesburg is over 300 miles from the African Coast. I seriously doubt Wanda made him run that far (or even knew the city existed).

If we do accept the idea that she was a willing member of Hydra, even that doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t deserve mercy. There were a lot of former Nazis who were given amnesty after World War Two. And even failing that, like I said earlier there are times when real world logic just doesn’t work for superhero stories.

When Vision is born he is depicted as a being of pure goodness. If he approved of Wanda, that’s enough for me.

The textbook definition of a terrorist is “a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.” Wanda, even when she is serving Ultron, never goes out of her way to harm innocent people (I’ve already covered what she did with Bruce), and she has no political agenda (unless you count wanting to help her country generally), only a desire for vengeance.

You can argue all day about how feeling remorse for your actions doesn't make you better, but she very clearly feels terrible about everything; just watch her scene with Clint near the end of the movie; she has a fucking panic attack because the gravity of everything is finally hitting her, and she is overwhelmed with guilt.

I will admit, her AoU story does feel incomplete. At no point is there a scene where the Avengers debate what to do with her, or whether or not she even deserves mercy or can be trusted. After joining them out of necessity she is accepted as a permanent member without any sort of bridge. But then again, AoU is just not a very good film in general, so I’ll chalk it up to that.

TL;DR - Wanda and Pietro were victims of circumstance and manipulation, as well as a deep-seated hatred caused by severe trauma. Despite some messy writing in their introduction, they. Are. Not. Monsters.

[I know it’s silly to be over-analyzing actions that Wanda has already been narratively redeemed for, and all of this is kind of a moot point after what she has done recently, but to this day I see people arguing that she is a “mind-raping Nazi terrorist bitch who should’ve been depowered, imprisoned, and/or executed, so I felt the need to compile this.]

[musclesandhammering]

Wanda was canonically born in 1989. Agent Woo states this in Wandavision, it’s on the mcu Wiki, and the official mcu timeline book states that AoU occurred in 2015. So in AoU, she was 26, and assuming that she and Pietro had been with Hydra for maybe 5 years before that (and it definitely wasn’t even that long, but I’m being generous), she would’ve been about 21 when she first volunteered. Following the official timeline, she would’ve been 27 in Civil War, 29 in Infinity War, and still 29 in Endgame due to snap logic.

So, based on the fact that brains aren’t fully done developing until the mid 20s, Wanda’s brain would’ve been developed by the time she first appeared in the mcu, because she was 26 then. And even though I’ll concede that 21 year olds are still very immature and should definitely still be considered kids, there’s only so much wiggle room that “their brain isn’t fully developed” argument can give you. That’s a valid response to a 21 year old laying out of work to party or driving drunk. It would not be a valid response to a 21 year old, say, murdering someone. Wanda signed up to work for terrorists, caused massive amounts of destruction and collateral death, and went on a mission to kill a group of people for revenge. At that point, using the argument that she’s just immature isn’t gonna cut it.

Screen Rant is not a reliable source in general. They aren’t affiliated with Marvel in any way and they constantly get things wrong. The above paragraphs are literally just them assuming she was about 16 based on one vague line from Clint and then basing the entire rest of their age timeline off of that. And the article you linked is outdated (from 2020), from before we had any canon evidence about her age- it’s just the Screen Rant writers speculating about it. Their speculations ended up being incorrect. Wanda was factually never a teen during her onscreen time in the mcu.

All of that being said, I do agree with you that her being imperfect is what makes her an interesting character. She’s had very unheroic tendencies since she entered the mcu, and that actually separates her from the rest of the avengers. It makes her complex. It gives her depth of character. And I like that in a superhero (hell, I should know. I’m a loki fan! lol). But when fans make excuses for her and argue that she just wasn’t in her right mind etc, that diminishes that depth.

And finally, as to the line in the show: it’s hypocritical as hell. Not even getting into how problematic it is to have the token black woman say that to the white woman who’s been beating the shit out of her for like 7 straight episodes. Wanda saying “it wouldn’t change how they see me” forlornly, as if it should change how these people she’s held captive and tortured see her. It doesn’t matter what she sacrificed to save the world- these people didn’t ask her to do that and they don’t owe her for doing it. Wanda chose to, selflessly. That’s what made it heroic. And doing something good for someone in the past doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be angry when you do something bad to them in the present. The whole implication that these victims of Wanda’s should be grateful to her for her past actions instead of being angry that she traumatised them in return…. yeah that’s hilarious. And the fact that wasn’t doing it on purpose at first (because she realised halfway through and still chose to keep going so she could hold onto her fantasy) means nothing in this context. If I had an emotional breakdown where I disconnected from reality and held some folks hostage in my basement and tortured them for a few weeks, it wouldn’t matter that I was having a mental health crisis. They would hate me for what I did, and they’d have every right to.

Anyway, this isn’t meant to be an attack or anything. I know I’ve defended some of my favs more than I should have in the past. And really, it’s fiction. It’s based on the viewer’s perception. So it’s impossible to have a wrong opinion on it- if you think her being somewhat young justifies her actions a bit, that’s perfectly valid! And you know what, she has been through severe trauma her entire life so it’s understandable if fans see that as a reason to forgive her too. And I’m not even being sarcastic, Wanda’s a super fascinating and empathetic character. Just because the fandom/narrative ruins her a bit for me doesn’t mean it should for other people. I’m glad you responded to my post, though. I love ranting lol.

Friendly reminder that Wanda was a whole ass adult in Civil War (27), also an adult in Age of Ultron (26) & most likely even an adult when she signed up to work with Hydra (23-24 maybe).

Like not even college age, but full-on adult. Pushing 30.

The whole “she’s just a kid” argument is bullshit.

[solena2]

So.

Tommy isn’t Theseus. Every time I see Techno’s analogy about Tommy being Theseus brought up I’m filled with endless rage and I’ve DECIDED!

That it’s about time I explained just why it’s so objectively incorrect.

-

First: a bit of backstory on Theseus, because I doubt many of you actually know much about him beyond what Techno said in his “so you want to be a hero” speech, which left out a lot of relevant details.

Theseus was a demigod with two fathers and one mother. His fathers were king Aegeus of Athens and the sea god Poseidon, and his mother was Aethra, Aegeus’ wife. Aethra raised Theseus on her own, far from Athens to avoid him being assassinated.

Aegeus left him nothing but a sword with the Athenian crest and a pair of sandals, buried under a rock so no one else could get them.

When Theseus came of age, he took the sword and sandals and headed up to Athens, slaying various monsters along the way. (It pains me to abbreviate it that much, but Techno left out everything before the Minotaur so it won’t help me much in debunking his analogy.)

Once he got to Athens, he met up with his dad, chased out his stepmom Medea, (yes, that Medea) and killed some people. Then comes the relevant part.

Crete had won a war against Athens a while back, and because of this, every seven years Athens was forced to send 14 tributes to be killed by the Minotaur. (Yes, this inspired the Hunger Games)

Theseus decided he’d volunteer and kill the Minotaur, thus ending the tribute system for good and getting one over on Athens. He promised his dad that if he won, he’d come back in a ship with white sails, as opposed to the standard mourning black that signified the death of the tributes.

So he went to Crete, met king Minos and his daughters Ariadne and Phaedra, and got sent into the labyrinth. Ariadne gave him a magic ball of string that kept him from getting lost, allowing him to find the Minotaur and then safely get out afterwards, providing he could kill it.

He killed it, led his other 13 tributes out, and sailed back home. On the way, Athena told him to leave Ariadne stranded on a tiny island in the middle of the ocean, so he immediately did so, because Theseus was an asshole.

He got home, his dad committed suicide because Theseus forgot the white sails and his dad assumed he’d died, Theseus became king and married Phaedra, and then the fun began, because again, Theseus was an asshole.

First, he cheated on Phaedra with Hippolyta, queen of the Amazons, so she left and took the kids. Next, he and his other asshole friend Pirithous decided to kidnap themselves some new wives. Theseus decided on Helen of Troy, who was a child at the time, and Pirithous decided on Persephone, which resulted in both him and Theseus getting stuck in the Underworld for a while due to pissing off Hades.

Once he got back up, he killed his son for fucking his wife, which is messed up on many levels, and then left Athens because his people were rightfully not super okay with that.

Then he goes and meets Lycomedes, who throws him off a cliff.

-

Next, let’s talk about Techno’s speech a bit.

He starts off by accusing Tommy of being a power hungry dictator (paraphrased), before asking him if he wants to be a hero.

Then, he provides what is apparently the archetypal example of heroism, something often associated with selflessness, kindness, and generally giving at least one singular solitary fuck about other people.

Theseus! Heroic hero who does heroic things, like, uhhh *checks notes* cheating on his wife, kidnapping children with plans to forcefully marry them, leaving people alone on tiny islands with no supplies, killing his kid, etc. etc...

So we’re off to a great start.

Then, he gives a short summary of Theseus’ life and times! He skips the first part of his life completely, which is hilarious to me because it’s the only time Theseus ever did anything actually heroic or selfless, and gets straight to the meat!

“Let me tell you a story, Tommy. A story of a man called Theseus. His country was in danger, he sent himself forward! Into enemy lines. He slayed the Minotaur! And saved his city. You know what they did to him, Tommy? They exiled him. He died in disgrace, despised by his people. That’s what happens to heroes, Tommy.”

-Technoblade

So first off, he doesn’t mention... really anything other than the Minotaur and the exile, which is leaving out a lot of relevant details, like why Theseus was exiled. (You know, killing his son in cold blood?)

Second, he doesn’t give details in general. Not that he should’ve given a full telling, or anything, but I’m always surprised by the shortness of this speech when I go back and listen to it. He pretty much just gives the barest bones of an argument and expects his audience to take it at face value. (Which they do, but it’s still bad practice)

From the more accurate (if still brief) summary if Theseus’ life I’ve just given, I’m sure you can see why this might be more than a bit dubious, as an analogy. Given cc!Technoblade is literally an English major, and doubtless knows significantly more about the myth than I do, I’d imagine this was never intended to be taken at face value.

Over and over again, c!Techno proves himself to be an unreliable narrator, and over and over again, the fandom at large takes his word as gospel.

-

Now, as far as a more in depth argument for Tommy as Theseus goes, I will attempt to debunk that as well, because there are some genuinely good points to be made.

First of all, most people make Dream out to be the Minotaur. Given the time this speech was made, I imagine Schlatt was the intended target of that, but with latter events in mind, Dream does make much more sense.

I’d say this is honestly pretty fair, but I don’t think Tommy takes the role of Theseus in that narrative. I’d argue he’s much more analogous to the role of Ariadne, giving the tools required to defeat Dream but ultimately not doing so through his own power, but because someone chose to take those tools and make use of them. This also provides the very interesting characterization of Punz as Theseus, which is an incredibly unique take that I hope some a Punz enthusiast does something with, because I don’t know enough about his lore to make a good analysis on that.

The idea of Schlatt as the Minotaur, as was probably intended by Techno at the time, makes much more sense, though I still think other characters fit the role better. Firstly, Schlatt wasn’t killed, he died of a heart attack, and if someone had killed him I think it’s more likely to have been Wilbur or Techno who did it than Tommy, as Tommy was still very hopeful and idealistic at the time, at least compared to his character now. You could posit Tommy as Ariadne again in this situation, given he was the one to mastermind the final charge, and though I think Tommy as Ariadne is an idea that’s worth further exploration, I’d say Fundy futs the Ariadne role here much better, with him giving the spy’s diary before being effectively shunned and left out in the cold by both Pogtopia and Manburg, much like Ariadne was abandoned in the original myth.

I’d posit the Theseus in this scenario as Techno, Wilbur, or possibly Philza, as they were the ones to actually kill things in the 16th, though Techno and Wilbur’s killings were more in the metaphorical sense, taking the second life of L’manburg.

As for the exile, Tommy exile was alike to that of Theseus only in concept. Both were sent from their kingdoms for a crime, resulting in a falling out with someone close to them, and had a precarious relationship with heights while they were gone, but that’s about where the similarities end and even then they’re superficial.

First of all, Tommy’s exile was far more because Dream was looking for an excuse to do it than because briefing actually means anything on the SMP, given how Dream had been griefing bases and blaming Tommy for it for a while before it went down. (Fun fact, Bad and Skeppy were going to burn one of his discs over this, but one of them got sick so they had to cancel the stream.)

Theseus’ exile, on the other hand, was entirely deserved, especially when you consider how serious a crime killing family was in Ancient Greek culture. It was pretty much the biggest no-no in existence, and I’m almost surprised he wasn’t just straight up executed for it.

Second, Tommy’s falling out with Tubbo was almost entirely due to outside forces, (Dream) rather than because anything Tommy had done. Though Tommy’s cavalierness towards the trial and attempts to threaten Dream with Spirit doubtless didn’t help things, Dream surrounding L’manburg in obsidian walls and threatening them to exile Tommy was entirely his own choice, and not something that can be pinned on Tommy, no matter what the apologists may say.

Meanwhile, Theseus’ falling out with Phaedra had begun long before his exile with him cheating on her. Him killing his son was merely the last in a long line of dominos to completely destroy their relationship.

Last, Tommy nearly killing himself is very different from Theseus being pushed off a cliff. Tommy’s near suicide was the direct result of physical and emotional abuse at the hands of c!Dream for what was canonically, I believe, several months? (Correct me if I’m wrong on that one.) Tommy almost jumping off a pillar because he was deliberately isolated from his support systems is nothing like Theseus being killed because he was a cocky asshole who thought he was god.

-

So that’s why I don’t think Tommy is anything like Theseus, and why I’m filled with endless rage by the completely uncritical acceptance of this parallel, but it’s not the whole reason it pisses me off.

It also pisses me off because, as stated earlier, cc!Techno is an English major. He knew what he was doing with this. The fandom’s insistence on refusing to acknowledge his character as an unreliable narrator is, in my opinion, acting as a massive kneecap to what could be a great analysis of how he thinks.

Specifically: why does c!Technoblade think Tommy is like Theseus?

Of all the Greek heroes to pick, why that one? Was it just the tantalizing opportunity to parallel Schlatt with a horned monster, or was it because c!Techno has some genuine in-character reason to think this myth specifically applies to Tommy.

Now, we all know people in the SMP have a habit of analogizing Wilbur and Tommy. The assumption Tommy wanted to be president, the belief that Tommy nominated Tubbo directly, the belief that he was intentionally deceiving Techno about Pogtopia’s intentions regarding Manburg... all of these stem from Wilbur. There are more cases of this, of course, but several analyses have been done in the subject already, and this is long enough without more padding.

So why does Techno think Tommy is Theseus? Well, it’s simple, isn’t it?

Wilbur is Theseus.

To be continued, because this is already too long and my brain hurts.

[autisticcassandracain]

🔥 kori

dickkory sucks but not for any of the reasons dickkory haters say it sucks. most dickkory hate is literally just ppl hating on kori disguised as a 'personal opinion' on ships and usually those opinions make it extremely obvious that they never bothered to like, actually read The New Teen Titans lmao. 'dickkory was mostly sexual' is especially a terrible take because not only is it blatantly untrue, it's also based in the slut-shaming Kori has received over the years for being sexually open, and the mischaracterization she's received bc people saw an opportunity to reduce a female character to a sex object with a thin veil of plausible deniability in the form of 'characterization' and took it.

Most arguments against dickkory I've seen focus on the idea that Kori didn't offer Dick much, which is HILARIOUS because you have a MUCH better argument for the reverse, which is exactly what I will now proceed to argue.

got long, is under the cut, you know the drill. TL;DR Kori and Dick's relationship was badly built up, Kori provides more emotional support for Dick than Dick provides for Kori, Kori was more important to Dick's development than Dick was to Kori, and I don't think it's ever even been stated why Kori likes Dick.

Also donnakory was built up way better than dickkory and I'd argue Donna has had more of an influence on Kori than Dick ever did. That last one isn't explained in-depth it's just important to me that you know this.

Dick and Kori barely interacted prior to getting together, and yet we were supposed to believe this narrative that Dick was definitely in love with Kori and just couldn't admit it. I literally did a double take the first time Kori mused to herself about being confused Dick 'wouldn't admit to being in love with her' like I'm sorry WHEN did that get established??? I'm too aro for 'love at first sight' bullshit you have to actually make them interact or I won't buy it. This lack of build-up was my first problem with dickkory, but I was willing to ignore it if the actual relationship appealed to me.

It didn't. Dick and Kori's relationship is marked by a pattern of what, to me, is incompatibility. Dick is the type of person who, when stresses, lashes out at others and pushes them away. He's seen doing this multiple times to Kori in The New Teen Titans, most notably shortly after they got together when he was stressed due to having too much on his plate, and in the Return to Tamaran/Karras/Marriage arc. Kori consistently reacts to this behavior by blaming herself for it. The first time, she comes to Donna to ask her if she's done anything wrong, after which Donna reassures her that Dick's just Like That, and Kori resolves to be as supportive as she can.

The second time bothers me much more; on Tamaran, Dick is so mean to her she ends up having a full-on breakdown, which she first seeks support for from Joey, but later, she just stays depressed until she can return to Earth. While Dick's behaviour was influenced by his brainwashing, we never get confirmation of how much of it was influenced, and on top of that, the comic repeatedly and consistently frames Kori as having 'hurt Dick' during this arc afterwards, making her say this repeatedly, while never refuting it or addressing the ways Dick has harmed Kori during this arc.

While Dick did man up and apologize in both circumstances (I think the second apology was lacking, but the first was quite good), it still established a pattern that I find uncomfortable. Dick is rude to Kori, Kori takes it personally and wonders what she's done wrong, Kori tries to talk it out with Dick, Dick snaps at her and pushes her away, but eventually realizes he's been mean and apologizes. What bothers me the most in this pattern is the part where Kori consistently blames herself for Dick's behaviour, and assumes she's done something wrong to make him behave this way. Every time this came up in the comics, it made me deeply uncomfortable, because I've seen enough real-life relationships with a very similar dynamic to this that were deeply unhealthy to make this set off all my alarm bells.

I want to stress that I don't think dickkory is actually unhealthy in canon, but it reminds me of enough unhealthy relationships I've known for me to be personally uncomfortable with it.

That's not the only part that reminds me of those relationships: I feel like Dick is getting way more out of this relationship than Kori. Kori is consistently shown to support Dick when he goes through tough situations, even when Dick responds by trying to push her away or being rude to her. Similarly, Dick has stated that Kori was the one who helped him open up about his emotions, and has had a tremendous positive effect on his character development as a result; he even goes so far as to name her one of the elements of his Nightwing identity. Kori pushes Dick to explore new areas of himself, and supports him when he has problems.

Dick, by contrast.... doesn't really do this with Kori. When Kori needed support, Dick was consistently either absent or actually rude to her. Again, this is most prominent during the Karras arc; during a time when Kori desperately needed someone to support her, Dick was only concerned with his own hurt feelings. And again, yes, he was brainwashed during this, but again, we never actually got confirmation on how much of this behaviour was due to brainwashing, and much of the writing afterwards framed Kori was the one in the wrong here, so my point stands. This was the singular most important moment Kori needed support, and Dick blew it, and the narrative basically let him off the hook for it.

The only time I can think of when Dick supported Kori in non-battle related situations was right after the Wildebeest arc in New Titans, but that was also the start of Kori's character massacre for the break up arc, so I don't exactly have fond memories of that. I'm sure there's been more minor moments where he's supported her that I'm forgetting, but I shouldn't have to have this much trouble coming up with times Dick has emotionally supported Kori.

Furthermore, Dick hasn't had a similar effect on Kori's character development to Kori's effect on Dick. While Kori did develop while she was with Dick, this wasn't really due to Dick. Her short-lived change of heart about the morality of murder was due to her personal experiences, and while Dick probably aided in this decision, so did Donna and even the rest of the Titans. It was not something that was uniquely Dick, the way Dick opening up about his emotions was uniquely Kori. Her distancing herself from Tamaran and embracing Earth was also not uniquely Dick, and was in fact a realization that mostly took place in his absence. Other parts of her character development follow this pattern.

I'm not saying Dick has had no effect on Kori's character progression, but he wasn't instrumental in it the way Kori was instrumental in his. Kori's character would've likely progressed in an extremely similar fashion even without him, and I can't say the same for Dick. If anyone influenced Kori's development in a similar way Dick influenced Kori's, it was Donna, who was the one to introduce her to Earth culture, supported her through various tough times and insecurities, helped her find a job (albeit it on accident) and frequently worked with her later, etc. etc. And even then, I don't think Donna's effect on Kori was quite as dramatic as Kori's effect on Dick.

The final nail in the coffin for any interest I may have had in dickkory is the fact that I, honest to god, have no idea why Kori likes Dick. I don't. Dick has several internal monologues about how much he loves Kori for her passion, her drive, her openness, and the way she pushes him to explore new parts of himself and open up, but Kori... doesn't really do the same for Dick. I can make guesses as to why I think Kori likes Dick, even fairly educated ones (I think Kori likes Dick at least in part because his intellectual approach to life is new and interesting to her, for example), but they've never stated it explicitly the way they've stated what Kori likes about Dick. And for a series that'll state practically everything explicitly if it can, up to and including what's happening on the panel right now, this is very weird to me.

Any of these problems, isolated, I could've gotten past; even a two of these problems I could've probably ignored. Three would've been pushing it, but all of them? No chance. Any good will I had towards the relationship was buried with the Karras arc, and then shot in the head for good measure when they continuously talked about it as if Kori was the one at fault there.

All of these problems combined make it very clear to me that Kori was not the primary concern in this relationship. Kori was invented as a love interest for Dick, and it shows. This entire relationship is about what it does for Dick, how it helps Dick. The only thing Kori gets out of it, at least to me, is the happiness she gets from being in love, and frankly, she could get that with literally any other character.

The fact that people keep reducing her character to this relationship also infuriates me and makes me even less inclined to like it, especially when they can't even bother to remember Kori was the one who broke up with Dick and instead treat Kori as the one who was left heartbroken and has never gotten over it, while Dick gets to move on with his life and other love interests.

I think this relationship had potential; I think their contrasting personalities could've made for an interesting relationship, and I've enjoyed some isolated moments and fandom portrayals of them before. But after reading The New Teen Titans, I just do not understand why so many Kori fans like this relationship so much. I went into the series neutral on the relationship but hopeful about being won over, to straight-up hating it.

Also that one time they used a relationship between a man who was about to shoot his wife for cheating on him as a direct and obvious parallel to dickkory was SO GODDAMN AWFUL. why the hell did they think that was a good idea. why.

[thickenmyblood]

I’ll confess my sins. When I skipped the first chapters of Capri I got stuck on Laurent’s description as spoiled and similar to overripe fruit. So i was like ah. Royal Dudley Dursley with a blonde curly wig. Sounds about right. I finally saw some fan art and was like??? Who is this anemic Victorian vampire legolas persona?? Honestly tho in an alternate universe where Auguste doesn’t die and Laurent still dislikes sports but enjoys Veres sweet meats and his metabolism is only the slightest bit slower Laurent is absolutely getting chubby. And Damen. Smh he manages to be shadiest bitch while also being appreciating. Would he insult an overweight courtier who never touched a sword? Absolutely. Would he respect a meaty sumo ringer able to throw Damen around like a rag doll? Absolutely. He seems to appreciate multiple types of bodies just fine (muscled gladiators, frail slaves, sturdy vaskian women) so I feel like he’d also appreciate curvier partners as long as they. Well know how to use their body yk. Oh and what about chubby jokaste? We don’t know enough about akielon beauty standards at all. Sure slaves are probably mostly slender and frail to add to the submissive aesthetic (tho I do remember damens fixation on his female slaves big boobs, dude is far from subtle as always). But if it’s Ancient Greek inspired beauty standards jokaste most definitely rocks some tummy rolls. Either that or she’s got super toned abs from the Pilates classes she visits with the other trophy concubines. and akielon man are properly ripped but is it king-Leonidas-washboard-abs ripped?? Or more chunky functional muscle mass ripped? Perhaps akielon noble women are even trained like Spartan women and egeria was the one with the washboard abs. Also there absolutely was a time in Vere where the chubbier the pet = the wealthier it’s owner. Im so so sorry for rambling but your post got me t h i n k i n g

This is not only hilarious but also one of the best takes I’ve ever read. There is so much to unpack here that I truly don’t know where to start.

You mentioned Dudley, whose weight and fat (derogatory) tendencies are accentuated throughout the entire Harry Potter saga. I think—and this is my personal belief, it is not something anyone else has to agree with—that part of what makes Laurent interesting and redeemable to many readers has to do with the fact that he’s beautiful*. I don’t think many people would be willing to admit that, but Laurent’s pretty privilege as a fictional character is similar to Draco Malfoy’s (in fanon) or other morally grey villains/characters’. Ugly characters are harder to forgive, for some reason.

This got me thinking that had Pacat written Laurent as canonically fat, there would be a lot of stuff going on in Damen’s head that I don’t think we’d be able to excuse as easily as we excuse other (quite horrible) thoughts of his. But also, like I mentioned above, I think Laurent would have a harder time proving to some readers that he’s not Dudley, that he’s not just a stereotype of selfishness and greed and other things fatness is associated with (like childishness or an inability to take accountability for one’s actions). This would happen not because he’s fat, but rather because we see the world through Damen’s eyes. And Damen is. . . Quite opinionated.

You mentioned Damen would be judgmental of someone’s weight based on their ability to fight. So, like you pointed out, he’d make fun of a useless in battle courtier but not of a Sumo wrestler. I think in Book 1 Damen would make fun of anything and everyone, but I do understand where you’re coming from with that statement. It makes me wonder what Damen would think of people with a mobility/physical disability. Or even with learning difficulties. Or just about anyone that, according to him, doesn’t contribute to society. If you can’t be a warrior or a bed slave, and if you’re not in a condition to be a peasant and plow fields, and if you don’t have royal blood in your veins. . . I have a hard time picturing Damen being sympathetic.

Chubby Jokaste. . . I think I’ve always thought of her as a muscled woman, given the fact that Laurent can pose as her in Book 3. There’s been a lot of discourse lately on whether Laurent is muscled or a twigly twink, which I will not get into because I. . . do not know enough about gender and/or gender expression to add anything to any argument. I am also not a gay man, so I don’t know what could be considered offensive. I am also very stupid. I also do not know what the word 'twink' means anymore.

Your ask has made me think a lot about many things I’m usually not interested in. I think it would be interesting to see a chubby Laurent who still knows how to fight, who trains, who does things other than eat and hate. Canon Laurent is slender, and yet he never manages to beat Damen in combat, so I don’t think his ability to fight would suffer much from gaining some pounds. It would be interesting to see chubby Jokaste too, even though I don’t particularly enjoy the parallels between her and Laurent in canon. It would also be interesting to see. . . different types of bodies. You mentioned the Vaskian ladies, which I like a lot, but I don’t think I’ve read or come across any fics that focus on them. I think Vannes’ pet is also described as muscular and big, but I’m afraid I don’t remember the quote and I don’t own the books, so I can’t be sure.

What I liked the most was the ending of your ask, where you went on to add little worldbuilding details. Like I said yesterday, I wish canon was more detailed so we could maybe have something to hold onto when we make certain claims. It’s hard to say which parts of Damen’s thought process are entirely his (as a prince with a lot of privilege) and which ones have to do with his culture. Pacat has pointed out some to us, like the fact that Akielons don’t enjoy certain “spectacles” of the body, like pet rings or public sex, but they do enjoy staring at bodies when they’re wrestling or performing physical activities unrelated to sex. Other things remain little mysteries, in my opinion. Do all bed slaves have the same body type? Do women wrestle? How does marriage work in Akielos? What is everyone else’s opinion on fat people? I’m sure not everyone is like Damen, who we speculate cares about having a healthy body so he can fight and. . . stuff.

I am not saying Damen is the only character who, in the historic period where Captive Prince is set, would have fatphobic thoughts. If Damen was fat, Laurent would be the first one to use that against him, especially in Book 1. I just think Damen fits the fatphobic mold better because he’s described as this hypermasculine character, very into war (I think the blurb of the book calls him a warrior prince?) and manly things. Which is not to say war is inherently manly. Which is not to say Laurent isn’t manly. Which is not to say. . . whatever.

Captive Prince is a fantasy trilogy, set in. . . the past. Concepts such as fatphobia or toxic masculinity are not exactly applicable, but I think it’s fun to explore Damen’s character through his flaws. Laurent has a lot of flaws, but Damen’s are sometimes confused with virtues. In my opinion, they’re at their best when they’re being disgustingly horrible to each other.

I’m sorry for writing you a 90 paragraph response.

* He's almost universally beautiful in the Captive Prince world. Damen finds him pretty, and Torveld, and Jord (we've read that 'cute' quote where he describes Laurent at 15 to Aimeric). Not saying fat = ugly. I'm saying it seems like the 'hegemonic' body type for pretty is Laurent's, otherwise. . . why would everyone he comes in contact with comment on his pretty looks?

[oidheadh-con-culainn]

What are the major details that confused you about the Hound blurb? The major one that stood put to me was the "way of the farmer opposed to the sword" thing which felt very...un-Cú Chulainn. Also, if you don't mind expanding further, which details didn't you question/be confused by?

and also for anon:

okay so it is like. 2am so there are not going to be any sources here but i can't sleep so here goes!! i will go through this blurb line by line and give youse my thoughts

In 50 BCE,

reasonable. this is roughly the right time period for when the ulster cycle is set. maybe marginally earlier than i'd place cú chulainn, but i'm talking a few years, nothing to get worked up about.

Morrigan, the goddess of war,

fine. normally i'm wary of pantheonising impulses with regard to irish characters (almost none of them can be identified as a god of anything in particular, it doesn't work like that) but tbh the morrigan is like, the most plausible exception to that, so whatever. normally her name has the definite article attached to it because it's kind of a species term as well but whatevs.

has become restless as a long-lasting peace settles over Ireland.

dubious. closest i can think of to peace being reference in any texts is togail bruidne da derga talking about conaire mor's reign being like, prosperous and peaceful and whatever, and even there you've got díberg (plundering/reaving) which is what eventually fucks him over and starts the otherworldly hell spiral situation. that's roughly the right period here but conaire's doom proves you don't have to do much to nudge peace into war, and connacht and ulster are at each other's throats for years before cú chulainn comes on the scene anyway

Deciding the time of peace must end, she chooses Setanta, the nephew of the king of the north, to become her ward.

hmm. i mean. like, this isn't the WEIRDEST choice they could have made. it's still completely made-up, don't get me wrong -- cú chulainn has a lot of different foster parents in different texts and they don't agree with each other but none of them ever mentions the morrígan. but like, they do have a connection of some sort, as evidenced by their conversations. and there's that one moment in the r1 boyhood deeds where little cú chulainn is out on the battlefield and hears her (not sure which name is used here) calling out to him and it like. motivates him to do some deeds or whatever, and i guess you could extrapolate that into some kind of teaching capacity.

so like. could be weirder. if you're gonna pick anyone, you could do worse. still seems weird to me! but not on its own a major issue, i could get past this and consider it a Fun But Unorthodox Creative Decision

(the fact that she tries to seduce him in the táin probably wouldn't get in the way of this considering sleeping with his teachers/foster-mothers is far from unheard of where cú chulainn is concerned)

After a young Setanta slays the demon-hound of Cullan, he becomes known as Cú Cullan—The Hound of Cullan.

weird spelling choices, they could have at least bothered to use the genitive properly. also the hound isn't a demon, it's a ferocious watchdog -- making it sound all Otherworldly and Hellish like this kinda confuses the issue of why he would need to take its place. he needs to take its place because the cattle and people still need protecting because it is a watchdog!! but whatevs, again, it's a brief summary so they can't exactly give us all the details and this is not actively objectionable

As Cú Cullan grows older, it is apparent that an extraordinary power lies within him … and a great darkness.

ugh boring. this makes it sound like he's going to be ~tortured~ and angsty about it. give me an unapologetic murder teen please. is the ríastrad dark? sure i guess, if you're going to be boring about it. it's more like, grotesque neon in my head

When he chooses the quiet life of a farmer over the sword,

this would fucking never happen on like five different levels. obviously like anyone who has ever read anything about cú chulainn can see that this is not in his nature. he is never going to choose a quiet life. this is the kid who tricked his way into taking arms before everyone thought he was ready. also juxtaposed with the "darkness" comment makes it sound like he would Angst his way into this quiet life which. again. have you seen this kid. he is an unapologetic murder teen

the only thing i can think of that might make him temporarily want to walk away is connla's death which... depends where you position that in the timeline really, he does seem a bit fucked up by it and maybe he'd want a holiday although i can see that lasting precisely 5 minutes before someone pissed him off enough for him to murder them. but if he's being raised by the morrígan i can't see him going to train with scáthach so then he'd never meet aífe and therefore connla would never be born so that wouldn't happen. so like. whatever.

but also like. he would not become a farmer. he just wouldn't! it doesn't work! the ireland of the stories is super hierarchical, right? and this blurb has already fucking told us that he's the king's nephew (canon) so we can tell that being a farmer is Not His Place. when we see upper class figures becoming menial labourers in texts, like in cath maige tuired, it's because Things Are Fucked, Shit's Gone Wrong. people don't just decide to change their entire social class on a whim lmfao

if cú chulainn really wanted to turn his back on being a warrior he could probably make recourse to certain other Suitable Professions ... his grandad's a druid so he might have a route into that, though his dad's not so that might fuck things up a bit bc it's one of those things that's usually inherited. he does give "wisdom" in at least one text though and we also know he can write (he carves riddles in ogham in the táin) and he composes verses on various occasions so idk, maybe something in a poetic direction, though again, usually requires two generations of inheritance to be a real poet and not just a lower-class bard. warrior's kinda the main thing he's got open to him tbh. but farming? i'm not a legal expert but as far as i'm aware based on what i have read, that would fuck shit up

more likely an upset cú chulainn would just go off in search of an adventure somewhere conveniently far away until he'd calmed down (alba, or the tyrrhenian sea, or -- if we're going to get early modern about it -- somewhere like india, which frequently gets thrown into the texts with absolutely no cultural context and it's always hilarious)

Morrigan, angry at the betrayal,

of the entire social order, yes,

instigates an invasion of his homeland

i mean. if they intend this to be the táin then.... táin bó regamna does kinda make the morrígan responsible for it? not in the sense of triggering the pillow talk argument that it's in the book of leinster -- it's her getting up to her usual cow-nicking behaviours for shits and giggles. [note to readers: it is probably for more than shits and giggles but did i mention it's 2am]

but all in all, not particularly out of character that she would be at least some way responsible for this so i can vibe with this. echtra nerai also supports the TBR explanation with her fucking around with otherworldly cows and pissing people off so, yeah, whatever. the morrígan engineered this. sure.

and Cú Cullan must challenge fate itself

this is probably a controversial stance but fate feels like a difficult concept to apply to medieval irish texts. like are people sometimes Doomed? yes. there are prophecies, there are gessi, there's all manner of otherworldly fuckery that can trip you up. is that the same thing as fate? no idea. considering cú chulainn comes out alive from the táin though and his doom prophecies don't catch up to him for like, at least another decade, maybe 16 years depending on who you listen to, hard to see how that would apply here

to keep the goddess at bay.

again like she IS causing fuckery in the táin but also it's like... one time. really not the main character. but she or maybe just some crows, hard to say, do get implicated in the death tale so maybe they're doing what people often do and conflating the two? even though there's like 10-16 years in between them?

anyway as you can see i don’t think it’s wholly terrible / i’m not completely thinkshaming it. like, having cú chulainn raised by the morrígan is unorthodox but it could be a fun and creative direction so i don't object to it. making cú chulainn get sad about murder and choose to be a farmer is just fucking laughable tho, and makes me doubt their characterisations in general. so that's offputting and would probably make me think twice about buying it, if that had ever been on the cards.*

and of course sure, their cú chulainn can be a Sad Boy Who Likes Sheep, but that means he's not the cú chulainn of medieval irish lit / irish myth, because that cú chulainn is a feral murder teen who keeps killing his friends and also is way too high social status to ever be a farmer, and whose only relationship to livestock is as the watchdog who kills anyone trying to harm them (which is an important role on a farm! but like. not the same thing as Being A Farmer. mostly because it involves more murder and is essentially just an extension of his role as a warrior. or rather the other way around. he promises to protect mag muirthemne as a watchdog and this like. gets extended into him becoming its sole defender)

this has been my analysis of this blurb i hope you enjoyed it

it's now 2.30am i should try and sleep now that i've exorcised a few thoughts from my head

*as i mentioned in the tags of my other post, i don't tend to read graphic novels due to disability stuff. they're much harder for me to understand and follow than prose, to the point where some are incomprehensible, so i don't really enjoy them. there are a few i've read, but they tend to be short ones, and i'm usually not reading them in order, just admiring the art separately from the text. so it's unlikely i would read a graphic novel of this size anyway.

[hotchley]

I'm so tired please give me soft Hotch and protective Morgan content ♥️

Aww it’s okay to be tired and take a break and if you ever want to talk, my asks are still on, and I feel like I’m getting to this really late because I was probably sleeping when this was sent?

Anyways, this is just a little image I’ve had floating around my head. I’ll cross-post it to my ao3.... later because at it’s 5:41am and I want to go to sleep.

I may have missed the mark with this?? I don’t know, we have protective Morgan showering Hotch with compliments and Hotch being himself about the whole thing so I feel like it counts.... also the ending will make sense at the end

This is set during Gabby, but that’s not that relevant because I barely remember what actually happened in that episode, just that Hotch got punched by Sue.

Warnings: canon-typical violence (Hotch gets punched but it’s not graphic, just an event, and something referenced)

fifty-two minutes

Hotch knew he was going too far as he insulted Sue's abilities to parent Gabby, but he also knew there were certain things that had to be done for cases. He needed to know. Everyone needed to know whether or not she was capable of doing the unspeakable. If she was the one responsible for Gabby's disappearance. And the only way he could do that was by pushing. By pushing until she snapped and reacted.

He had just assumed her breaking point would lead to some form of verbal retaliation. Something about the lack of wedding ring, even though there was still a tan line because on the days where he missed Haley so much it was all-consuming, he would put it on, just for a few moments to remember the version of her that had been everything to him. He assumed she would make her own biting comment about how he wasn't with his own son. There was only one reason behind the glitter on his shirt. Derek had found his horror at being informed about its existence hilarious, but that was besides the point.

He hadn't thought she would punch him, square in the jaw, with all the rage of a scorned woman. He hadn't expected it to hurt as much as it did, or that it would immobilise him as much as it did. As he stumbled back, he was vaguely aware of the guard entering, but it hurt like a bitch. It took everything in him to remember how to de-escalate the situation without causing anyone further harm, but he did it, and then him and Dave left the interrogation room, armed with new knowledge.

"So how do you know this?" Derek asked casually.

Hotch didn't quite meet his eyes, staring at his eyebrows instead. He loved the way Derek treated him like he was the most precious and valuable person on the planet, and he loved that with him, he could be Aaron- the soft man that enjoyed theatre and was willing to get glitter all over his work clothes for his son.

But there was a time and a place for that, and it wasn't here, no matter how much he wanted to feel Derek's arms around him, grounding him to the moment and convincing him everything was going to be fine.

"She... reacted to my comment about motherhood," Hotch said, acting very much like the Southern-born gentleman talking about something unsavoury that he was. As if on cue, his jaw seemed to ache once more, and he was reminded of the need to actually deal with injuries instead of hiding them.

"Reacting? Aar- Hotch, what did she do?"

Hotch loved the way Derek would say his first name, sometimes exasperated, sometimes through a fit of uncontrollable laughter,  occasionally with annoyance, but always with love and affection sprinkled in. He also loved the way Derek called him Hotch. Like there was a secret joke between them, and in some ways there were.

Dave liked to think he was the only one on the team to consistently call him Aaron, but he wasn't. Not anymore.

"She may have responded with physical violence," Aaron said, voice quieter than usual. He started shuffling the files around. Alex tapped the table, and Spencer smiled at her, leaving to go and get a coffee refill. JJ was already out with the sheriff, so there was nobody left to distract from the situation.

"Physical violence?" Derek sounded worried.

"Sue punched Hotch in the jaw," Dave filled in.

Aaron spun around to face him, looking betrayed. "Dave!"

"He was always going to find out. And your jaw is starting to bruise," Dave said, smirk on his face.

"She punched- Aaron you can't just not- Dave can you cold the fort down for a few minutes?" Derek asked, already going round the table. Aaron looked down, knowing that if he saw Derek's eyes, he would start smiling like an idiot.

"Take as long as you need," Dave said, winking.

Aaron flushed, Derek rolled his eyes but smiled, and then grabbed his boyfriend's arm and dragged him to the bathroom.

"Der- Derek what are you doing?" Aaron stuttered. He hated that he stuttered whenever he got anxious, but he didn't want people spreading rumours. Or making assumptions, because yes they were together, but that didn't mean they were sneaking away to do that.

Luckily, Derek dragged him right past the bathroom and into an empty and unused conference room, which in some ways was almost worse. He pulled out a chair and forced Aaron to sit. Not that he needed to force him to do anything. For Derek, Aaron would do anything. Apart from admit that he enjoyed wearing his shirts because they smelt like home. That would be his pretend secret.

"I'm treating the injury you tried to hide from me!" Derek said.

Aaron scoffed. "I didn't hide it! I just didn't tell you the moment I saw you that the information we got came at the price of a punch! And it's not that bad, my jaw just aches. It's nothing new- get your mind out of the gutter you know my hearing messes with my jaw!" he said, voice rising in pitch when Derek smirked.

"But honey, I didn't say anything," Derek said, grining. "And is that really your best argument? Some prosecutor." It was teasing though, and Aaron smiled, because even as he'd said it, it had sounded stupid.

Derek left, closing the door behind him, and without case files to distract him, the pain in his jaw- which was worse than he had been willing to admit- became more prominent and he decided that Derek was the best thing to ever happen to him. And then he started wondering when he'd become such a sap.

"I got the first aid kit, and some ice. I reckon that's all we can do, but just before that, can I just check that it's not dislocated?" Derek said as he returned. And Hotch accepted that he'd always been a sap, it was just amplified by Derek's love.

"She didn't punch me that hard," Aaron whispered, still wincing when Derek pressed two fingers to the spot that was bruising.

"Mhm. Whatever makes you feel better. But seriously, does anything feel wrong?"

Aaron shook his head. He closed his eyes as Derek poked and prodded him more, the touch still comforting even though there was some necessary force behind it. He had never felt better than he did in the soft and silent moments like this, when they could just exist and not feel the need to fill the silence with unncessary words, because the silence said more than sentences ever could.

He let out a yelp as the ice packet was pressed to the skin that was definitely bruising. "Derek!"

"Yes honey?"

Aaron blushed at the pet name, looking down at his boyfriend. He hadn't even realised that Derek had been kneeling by his side, staring at him with such adoration and love in his eyes that it physically hurt Aaron's chest to see just how capable of good things people were.

"Warn me next time," he said, pouting slightly.

Derek smiled. "Of course sweetie." He didn't let go of the ice pack, even though Aaron was fully capable of holding it himself. It was nice though, if a bit of a strange image. One man in a chair, looking down as his partner knelt on the floor holding the ice pack with a suprising amount of genteless. He took Aaron's hand in his own, drawing circles over the knuckles the same way Aaron would.

Aaron looked down, mesmerised by how well Derek knew him. By the fact that he got to call such a good man his everything.

"Okay, it's been a decent amount of time, the pain and swelling should go down. It's still going to bruise, so I'll take Jack to soccer practice when we get back, otherwise all the other parents are going to be drooling instead of watching and we can't have that, can we?" Derek said after both sides of the ice had gone warm.

"Derek," Aaron warned.

"Aaron," Derek mimicked. "Seriously though, they're all going to be back now."

"I know," he sighed.

Derek stood up, letting out a slight wince. Aaron couldn't help but smile. Derek was always teasing him about his back pain and the fact that he was getting older with every passing day, but the same could also be said of him.

"I love you," he whispered as Derek took his hand to help him stand up, even though he could have done it himself. The words had never come easy to him, not with Haley, not with Jack, but he was getting better. And when Derek said them, he never expected a verbal response, knowing Aaron said them in every other possible way.

"I love you too," Derek said, pressing a kiss to Aaron's hair. Aaron let his eyes flutter closed as Derek pulled him closer for one final hug. He inhaled deeply, the smell of Derek's shower gel and deodorant the most comforting thing, alongside the laundry detergent he used because Haley had.

When they re-entered the conference room they had set up base in, Alex wordlessly asked if everything was okay. Aaron nodded at her, gratefully accepting the coffee she held out to him.

"Fifty-two minutes is not a few," Dave said, but there was no malice behind them.

"What can I say? I cannot resist beautiful men," Derek said.

Aaron hit his arm, cheeks warm with embarrassment but heart warm with love.

[cateringisalie]

My list of bearable Binal Bantasy VII tags is thinning...

But seriously. Being skeptical of Tifa’s narration of past events is not without merit. By the time the Lifestream scene rolls around she has been through three comas and some grevious injuries. The Lifestream scene is as revelatory for her as it is for Cloud.

The new assertion she was in any way actually friends with Cloud is not only in conflict with the OG’s portrayal but counter to Cloud’s development, her development, the growth of their relationship as adults and why (in general) people have them stay together post game.

Its unnecessary, frustrating and further damaging Tifa’s character who is spinning off further from who she was.

That Tifa and Cloud were not actually childhood friends does not mean they do not have a relationship in FFVII. It does not mean they cannot be together. Tifa “falling in love” with Cloud at the water-tower does not for a second make their later relationship any more meaningful.

All this new ship information does is make the relationship have longer longevity than previously assumed. As if whichever relationship has lasted longer is betterer and stronger. As if this should automatically undercut any other relationship Cloud or Tifa can possibly experience.

(in fact - and darkly cynically - this feels a lot more like enforcing that Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith operate in near exactly the same way. The pairs fall in love in record time (two years prior to the Nibelheim incident both times as far as I’m ware), the boys go missing and the girls never move on with their lives. I get the boys have gone missing without a shred of explanation or closure, but now for both of them people are willing to wipe out a quarter of their lives waiting. Teenagers are resilient you know? They will be inconsolable if this happened but they would bounce back a lot faster and cleaner than they would expect. The approval of the never moving on this is purely to keep the shipping uncomplicated. There can only be one pairing for Tifa, there can only be one pairing for Aerith. And if you think otherwise you’re wrong in canon. And who wants to write or read about a non-canon ship? Unless its yaoi/yuri in any case. I am so tired)

Childhood friends incidentally is not, however much some insist, a common trope of the series - unless you stretch it a fair amount and it encompasses a trivial number of the pairings. And none of the big ones (you know; Squall/Rinoa or Tidus/Yuna).

Could Tifa do with more backstory? Of course. Did Tifa’s mother deserve a name? Absolutely! But not like this. Not when Cloud helping round up cats in Remake is now tied to finding Tifa’s cat in a new authored backstory. This speaks again to the constant magpie-ing of existing imagery and moments from older parts of FFVII to feed the present. The retconning in of importance by changing the meaning of otherwise unimportant moments.

Tifa is not and never was under any obligation to like Cloud as a child. She did not bully him, but neither should she expected to involve him in anything she did. I understand the book has muddied this gloriously, but for what effect?

I mean, I know where the desperation to make Cloud and Tifa childhood friends stems from. I know why you want Cloud to have fallen in love with Tifa at like age 5 or something and for Tifa to fall in love with him at 13. And I rail against it all the time that its not necessary. Being first does not mean better.

Maybe I am old, cynical and exhausted, but I kind of like watching Cloud and Tifa grow closer in FFVII. I like watching Cloud and Aeris grow closer in FFVII. I like to experience these things where I can... experience them? I don’t like reading books which assert things in blunt statements that clarify exactly what the writer intended. I certainly don’t have the patience to wait for a later book to clarify what happened on-screen when I have drawn my own conclusions based on my preferences. Especially as this is all contributing to that continued sense that the OG is a smelly, badly designed embarrassment we would rather tiday away for the crime of being graphically inferior (never mind it was championed on its looks on release) and “goofy” (and apparently unable to run the gamut of emotions I remember from serious to comedy, to silly, to tragic, to pessimistic and quietly optimistic and moving).

I’m coming back to this point to stress it - I want to see the relationship growth. Remake gave me that for Aerith and Cloud even if the details aren’t to my taste. First meeting is awkward because hey, random stranger/Cloud is tired. Cloud gets involved and spends more time with Aerith. And the high-five thing is used as a clumsy/awkward/eh but clear metaphor for how their relationship develops over the course of their time together.

To the point that yes, it makes sense for Cloud to want to rescue her. Less sense for Elmyra and Tifa to be “Well they might not vivisect her” and then delay for two full chapters, but the whole thing flows.

And here’s where I get accused of being a fake fan: I don’t like how Cloud and Tifa’s relationship develops in Remake. Flirting. Tifa being mildly fazed by Cloud claiming its been five years. Scared when he almost kills Johnny. Maybe hurt depending on your resolution scene (hey podcast people! No Gold Saucer multiple dates because too expensive? How are there branched resolution scenes in Remake then?). But there isn’t growth. They seem to fit into each other’s lives without worry, bit of flirting, strange super-intense moments jammed into inappropriate sequences (the train roll, climbing the plate, Cloud remembering the promise unprompted, Tifa not actually engaged with Avalanche’s plans). There’s no sense anything has changed between them, the missed five years has done anything to them.

And I’m sure some would take this as proof of correctness. But... somehow Remake is better for realism despite a lot of new clumsy, but this relationship is not dinged for being implausible? No way does that five year gap not seriously impact any prior relationship to say nothing of developing from scratch.

See this was a neat thing about the OG; while Tifa seemed to have an edge over Aerith by knowing Cloud longer, he was in effect meeting them at the same point in his life and more or less starting from scratch with both. Both ships are valid, and even if Cloud is with Tifa come the end, it doesn’t mean he can’t have romantic feelings about both women.

Oh, but Nojima has changed his mind/always intended it this way. And? I can change my mind about liking what he’s written - and my patience and tolerance of Nojima has waned massively since 1997. To the point where his involvement invokes a pained groan from me.

Plus the hilarious attitude that this is from the same people who insisted “the OG will always be there, stop moaning about Remake”. Well guess what? I don’t like Remake and I don’t really want it around. The OG is better.

Yes, Tifa is under-served and sure, it could be clearer about shipping (but the apparent hostility to ambiguity and personal interpretation is deeply distressing. These things can mean something to you and don’t have to mean the same thing to everyone. Interpreting the romancs - again - not a competition).

BUT

I will take the OG version of Tifa where she believed in the cause, where she had friends (again, yes, the relationship between Tifa and the rest of Avalanche is not well depicted, but it was better than actively curtailing it), where she ran a bar THAT ACTUALLY OPENED AND SERVED CUSTOMERS, where she hated Shinra, where she didn’t know how to treat Cloud because she had only really talked to him once in her life and DESPITE THAT that they great closer and spent their last night before THE END OF THE WORLD together over the Remake.

Where Tifa is wary of Cloud for about 5 seconds, twice and then defaults to constant flirting. Where Cloud is near smothering Tifa every second they’re together and she doesn’t tell him to fuck off once. Where she’s allied with Avalanche but hates their methods (and the pacifists are in a shop around the corner and she is not with them because...?). Where she has some absurd contrived plot about medical bills and buying Seventh Heaven for Barret and Marlene.

Which would lead to a whole other rant titled “Marle is the Worst” but this has dragged on quite long enough.

But seriously; if you argue that we can’t hate Remake because OG is always there, then you have to stop applying Remake back to OG and using it as proof. Which is exactly why many people bemoaned the Remake at all. OG is one thing, Remake is another. I don’t care for the latter.

And I know if anyone does read all this it will be about the meanie Cleriths who diminish Tifa for no good reason. And yes, they are indeed acting in bad faith. But what makes you think for a second evidence will convince these people?

In particular, the argument has raged so long and always will because if people do not like a ship they will not accept it as canon (if they care about this as a factor) NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. Literally. Look at Loki if you want the most recent example of this.

Canon is to many “what I want” and often does not tally with the general interpretation. And you know, if being “canon” or guessing right early wasn’t triumphed as such a vital thing, we might not get these really terrible and pointless arguments.

Canon is a prize but here’s the big secret: fandom - in general - does not care. FFVII is an excellent case example given Sefikura overwhelms the other ships (and I think AZGSC is close?). And that’s not canon. That’s not even in the ballpark of the Cloud/Tifa vs Cloud/Aerith arena (even give that the former is roughly twice the size of the latter, you already won, so please stop?). Canon is only important if you think its important - and you get some more official art of sequences you can gif. And maybe you get kissing/implied sex/marriage/kids, but most of all you get a smug sense of superiority. And the last is why I have no patience with this.

[hello-yue-here]

About your atla ship songs, I have a couple of questions (sorry if my phrasing comes out wrong, english isn't my first language and I worry it might across as accidentally defensive): how did you end up with the choices for zukka, jetko and yuekka (note: I haven't seen the great comet, so feel free to obsess over it, I'm intrigued now and the hype is appreciated!)? Sidenote: I think the mailee choice is HILARIOUS and the tokka one just make me sad, I didn't expect to be attacked like this😭

kdjfha;s i love you im gonna obsess SO HARD over great comet now. you may regret this

this is gonna be so long so the rest is under the cut whoops

yuekka: no one else from great comet

where do i even begin. WHERE DO I EVEN BEGIN

okay so background information on this show: it's based off of a 76 oages excerpt from war and peace and its centered around a woman named natasha (and this guy pierre but he's irrelevant to this song so we wont worry about him) and natasha's bethrothed is off fighting in the war right now. she hasn't seen him in a while but she is in love with him.

every single lyrics of this song SCREAMS yuekka to me. the innocence and purity of their love. the love at first sight. and even the melancholy ending just- i go apeshit for this song. i love this song so much. and denee benton's voice??? kljsdhflwksugf please listen to this song if you haven't already. listen to the whole show. your life will be changed forever.

onto the lyrics (i stg this is ab to be the whole song whoops)

"the moon"

THOSE ARE THE FIRST WORDS ON THE SONG. natasha and andre (her bethrothed) met underneath the moonlight. Sokka and Yue first spoke to eachother at night and always met each other for their most intimate moments under the moonlight. also yue is LITERALLY the moon so like: right of the bat with those two words it's yuekka.

"and i saw your eyes / and i saw your smile / and the world opened wide"

sokka fell in love with yue the moment he saw her in the canal. she literally enchanted this motherfucker. everything about her made his heart go crazy. and 'the world opened wide' to me is from yue's perspective. Yue had never left the north pole and sokka had seen a good chuck of the world at the point. He took her on appa, he told her about his adventures. he saw the world yue wished to see and you know damn well that Sokka would have done anything to give it to her.

"oh the moon /oh the snow in the moonlight / and your childlike eyes and your distant smile / ill never be this happy again / you and i and no one else"

natasha sings fondly about the moon and the snow, seeing as it was where she fell in love with andre. yue and sokka LITERALLY fell in love in the same place: in the snowy nothern water tribe under the light of the moon. childlike eyes: THEYRE CHILDREN!!! distant smile: this is where it gets a little sad. theyre both children with way too many duties during a world that has known nothing but war for the past century. they want to be happy but yeah, theyre smiles are distant and far away because happiness seems out of reach for them most of the time. i'll never be this happy again: the moments yue and sokka shared together were probably the happiest either of them ever were. they were able to ignore the war and the world in the moments they shared together. and with no one else. no one else would be able to give each other this sense of peace and happiness and love.

"joy and life inside our souls / and no body knows just you and me / it's our secret"

Yue and Sokka had to sneak out in secret at night to go and see each other. Yue and Sokka couldn't be together for real because Yue was already engaged, but they were literally in love so she decided to see him anyways in secret. kasdjfhklasjd im losing my mind over them at this point.

"this winer sky / how can anyone sleep / there was never such a night before / i feel like putting my arms around my knees / and squeezing tight as possible / and flying away"

these are my FAVORITE lines in the entire song. yue and sokka had never felt this strongly about anyone before and that's why they are so drawn to each other. they had never experienced love before and they wanted to hold onto it for as long as they could even though they knew they couldnt. Sokka takes yue up on appa and she is wistful and wishes she could live like he does every day: ie flying away. oh my god these two deserved so much better. so much fucking better.

now for the saddes part. the saddest fucking part.

"maybe he'll come today / maybe he came already / and he's sitting in the drawing room / and i simply forgot"

natasha misses andre so intensely at this point. when i first listened to this show and heard this song i was like "wait a min... is andre like... dead?" and im sure i wasnt the only person who assumed that this was why natasha felt so sad by the end of such a beautiful song. (spoiler alert andre is fine)

but this line really exemplifies how sad natasha is, and hints at the fact that andre may never come back. it implies that their relationship is doomed (at least in my opinion) and that's all yuekka. Sokka misses yue intensely when shes gone. Yue accepted her fate almost immediately but sokka was in denial. he thought there had to be another way. but in the end it wasn't meant to be. and sokka will go on, loving yue, wishing for her back, even though it's not possible.

fuck im gonna cry.

zukka: all i've ever known- hadestown

"i was alone so long / i didn't even know that i was lonely / out in the cold so long / i didnt even know that i was cold"

sokka is from the swt so theres where the cold comes in. also in the gaang (initially) it was just him katara and aang. and katara and aang were much closer to each other than sokka was with aang and the two of them were benders so sokka was kind of an outsider with the two of them. He also represses a lot of his emotions and feels the need to do everything himself so i do see a lot of loneliness in sokka. and the fact that so many people in his life have left him (his mom, yue, his dad, suki briefly, etc...) he is known to keep people at an arms length. i see a lot of loneliness in sokka.

zuko's loneliness is a lot more obvious: he has literally been cast out and abandoned by everyone except iroh. and even then he still feels the need to be alone (remember zuko alone? thought so) these boys look after themselves and push others away and revel in their loneliness in order to keep themselves from getting hurt. at least in my opinion on canon and also some fanon because id be a liar if i said fanon didnt influence how i view ALL my ships (not just zukka)

"all ive ever known is how to hold my own / but now I wanna hold you too"

COME ONE MANNNN, they just wanna hold each other. theyre both very big protectors as well and kljhflkasdhg they wanna protect eachother like kljdhfl im gonna lose it rn.

"You take me in your arms / And suddenly there's sunlight all around me / Everything bright and warm / And shining like it never did before / And for a moment I forget / Just how dark and cold it gets"

SUNLIGHT SYMBOLISM. zuko is literally powered by the sun. i don't think i even NEED to elaborate on this one anymore lol. They find comfort in each other away from all of their trauma. when they're together nothing else matters and i personally love that for them. they both deserve love.

"I knew you before we met / And I don't even know you yet / All I know is your someone I have always known"

these two are extremely similar in canon. many parallels. older brothers overshadowed by their prodigy little sisters. longing to make their fathers proud (granted one dad is good and one is fuckin evil), both are pretty bad with emotions. both are seen protecting others before themselves (sokka protecting suki during the serpant's pass, sokka protecting toph on like multiple occassions, zuko protecting katara in the final agni kai), the list goes on. they know who the other is because they see themselves in the other person. they already know each other because they are each other (in a way, not entirely, but the similarities are strong in my opinion)

"I'm gonna hold you forever / The wind will never change on us / Long as we stay with each other / Then it will always be like this"

i just think this line is so cute and sweet (ignoring all the symbolism and foreshadowing that comes with the last line in the musical itself. im gonna pretend this is nothing but happy) and i think these boys deserve happiness so yeah. this song is zukka to me lol.

jetko: thrill of first love- falsettoes

if you've never listened to this song go an do it now. you will know INSTANTLY that it is jetko because of the dynamics alone. marvin and whizzer are pure jetko and i take no crticisms.

marvin and whizzer are both extremely stubborn, and they don't always get along, and they fight a lot, and they get mad at each other a lot, and they are both passionate as hell, and they will bring this passion into everything. they love each other that is without a doubt, but they arent perfect and they are once again stubborn and determined as fuck.

sound familiar? it's literally jetko.

the lyrics aren't what remind me of jetko, but the dynamic itself. the lyrics are too on the nose for a gay couple in 1970's america so that rlly cant apply to jetko all that much. but the way these two characters bounce off of each other and get annoyed with each other and argue with eachother reminds me of jetko. because let's be honest: these two are the most stubborn characters in the whole show. they will fight for what they believe and it will take literally everything to change their minds.

i love jetko but i think they would have petty arguments all the time and get aggravated by one another so easily. and this is even seen in canon: they work so fucking well together but they did not even HESITATE to fight one another after neither of them would give in and let the fight about whether jet was right or wrong about zuko being a firebender. like i cannot say it enough they are stubborn as fuck.

but underneath all that stubborn pettiness and bickering: marvin and whizzer still love each other. and jet and zuko would still love each other. because even though they are stubborn when it comes to arguments, they are even more stubborn and determined when it comes to each other. these two passionate motherfuckers are in love.

(now when i chose this song i decided to ignore the fact that this song literally spells out the fact that marvin and whizzer's relatinoship is doomed because they literally say passion dies. thats the difference between jetko and whizzer and marvin because i dont think passion dies. i chose this song strictly for the bickering lmao)

and i know you didnt ask about tokka but,,,,

i rlly wanna talk about the tokka one

so im going to

tokka: on my own- les mis

look. i KNOW this song is about unrequited love and i love tokka as a couple but,,, the unrequited love in this song just SCREAMS unrequited tokka to me so thats what i went with.

eponine is a girl who has neglectful parents who lives life by her own rules: toph. eponine is shown to be tough and confident and spunky to others but behind all of that she has emotions, she feels love, she hides her vulnerability so much: toph. she is in love with a guy she cant be with because he loves someone else: TOPH

eponine is toph to a t and toph is eponine to a t. this is not up for debate lmao

"without him i feel his arms around me"

toph is always seen grabbing onto someone (and its almost ALWAYS sokka) when she's somewhere where she can't use her feet to see. FEEL and ARMS cmon. look at it.

"and i know / i know that he is blind"

COME ON. IMAGINE TOPH SINGING THIS LINE. this line is already powerful enough in les mis but having toph, a blind character, sing it just makes the symbolism even deeper. toph sees the potential relationship they could have together. toph sees that sokka is oblivious to this. toph is not blind to the truth or the potention, but sokka is blind to her feelings. im about to lose my mind over this line.

"I love him / But every day I'm learning / All my life / I've only been pretending / Without me / His world will go on turning / A world that's full of happiness / That I have never known"

i need to sit down for a moment. toph grew up in a household where her parents did not understand her. she has learned to hide her true emotions and vulnerabilities from everyone. and its the fact that toph knows that she and sokka will never be together and the fact that she still loves him in spite of that is what makes this even more heartbreaking.

"but only on my own"

TOPH AND EPONINE SWEETIES I LOVE YOU

thank you for indulging my theatre kid nonsense. you are very sweet and kind and lovely and awesome and i hope you have a lovely day bestie :) <3

ask me why i think these songs go with these ships

[luxuriantegg]

POV: you're watching Loki episode 5. Loki and Sylvie share a blanket, and then five minutes later sylvie’s like “we’re the same :)” which comes after them holding hands to cause a Nexus event, Mobius implying they're in love, and Loki appearing to want to confess some sort of adoration for her before being pruned,,, and so far, it seems the showrunners/writers are on board w/ calling it a love story,,,,,,,,,,

let’s dive a bit into this ship.

(note: i'm not going to tag this as "syl//ki," and i will not put any ship in the body text without the "//", but tumblr may take the "syl//ki" out of "anti syl//ki" and put it in the ship tag. that's out of my hands. you need to block "anti syl//ki" if you don't want to see that.)

when it comes to defending or being anti syl//ki, I think a lot of people sort of missed the memo on or forgot about the fact that Loki is a frost giant. I have looked on both Twitter and Tumblr and literally have not seen a single person talk about it in the selfcest debate so far. I've probably missed something. So if you have seen this argument, well, here it is again!

so, syl//ki defenders will say,

It’s not selfcest because they are genetically different. They might have different parents since they were adopted by the Asgardians.

If they were genetically similar, then they would also be genetically similar to Boastful Loki and Alligator Loki.

First of all. Loki’s last name is Laufeyson. Sylvie’s last name is Laufeydottir. Due to the naming conventions used here, both can be assumed to be children of Laufey. I realize we haven’t seen Sylvie’s Laufey, but who’s to say they look any different than the one we saw in Thor? Furthermore, there’s nothing to suggest that they weren’t adopted by the same exact couple (i.e., Odin and Frigga or some variation), and if you’re not ok with Thor and Loki, you probably should consider this. Probably. We'll really just have to see what happens if they develop Sylvie further. Who knows, they might get cold feet in the last episode and actually make her Enchantress (Sylvie Lushton) proper.

The second point really pisses me off not just as someone who loves Norse mythology but also just. The race card. Does no one remember the fact that Loki is actually supposed to be blue? He’s not genetically white. There is nothing in his genes that command him to be white. That is a disguise (originally put on him by Odin if I’m not mistaken? feel free to check me on that).

Loki could literally be any gender and/or any color he wants to be. Hell, we've seen him shapeshift into Steve Rogers briefly and Odin presumably for a good while. Really, it's hard to pass judgement on the relationships that the other Lokis have to their respective timelines. We can only make assumptions based on the evidence we have. (but also have fun with headcanons of course)

(also the funny part about bringing up Boastful Loki is ,, everyone is always like “well, are you trying to tell me that our Loki has the same genes as Boastful/Hammer Loki? 🙄🙄🙄” and like, they won’t come out and just say one is white and one is black like,,, :) they’re trying so hard not to sound racist it’s hilarious. AND THEN TO PUT ALLIGATOR LOKI IN THE SAME CATEGORY. LAUGHABLE. str8 up.)

But concerning the alligator, in Norse mythology, frost giants can have kids that are really just. Out there. Jormungand is a snake that can wrap itself around the world, Fenris is a gargantuan wolf, and Hel is a half dead child. Those are just Loki’s kids (note: in the mythology. they also exist in the comics as his children, but I am also aware that Fenris and Hela are not his children in the MCU and trust me, that peeves me a lot). I’m sure there’s more examples though. So like. Potentially????? Yeah, Loki Prime could be genetically similar to Alligator Loki.

Furthermore, according to this Gizmodo article, Alligator Loki is a Loki (2021) creation, and they admit to playing with the idea that Alligator Loki may not even be a Loki. So take that how you will.

So my verdict is that Loki and Sylvie are the same person with different looks, possibly some difference in genetics, depending on the mother.

(note: Loki is marked in his file as genderfluid, technically we cannot know what he was assigned at birth. we only know his pronouns. he could be AFAB. Sylvie may be AMAB.)

I don’t ship lok//ius, and I don’t care if Loki gets with a girl (I actually really like Loki and Darcy) so don’t come at me with the biphobia excuse that’s running around. I will say that yes, I would adore seeing Loki in an mlm or wlw relationship. Yes, it is really cliché to have the two opposite gender-presenting leads get together. Yes, I want to see Loki and Sylvie as friends/family. But that’s not what I’m here to talk about. I’m just here to ask if this is selfcest or not.

So yes, Syl//ki really does appear to be a selfcest ship and like, if you’re willing to own that, own it. It looks like that’s how the show’s going so far so,, uh,,, enjoy it if that’s something you want to do I guess. I’m ,, probably not going to though. But congrats on the canon! If it is!

I’m not asking you to stop shipping it, if you do. I'm not even asking you to ship with caution. Overall, I just hope I made you think a little more about it and maybe get a discussion going that doesn't revolve around the same arguments we've heard for the past three weeks.

Because like, it's not hurting anyone to ship it, and if you send hate speech to any shippers or the showrunners, literally what is wrong with you???? there are civil ways to discourse, my lord.

Personally, if I had to ship it, I would only do so as a self-love metaphor, and I think that's as far as I would take it. As it currently stands, it's on the same level of Oncest, so like. it's weird but honestly it doesn't hurt anyone. (and if you don't know what Oncest is, give this video by Sarah Z a watch.) Really it all just amounts to this test from Buzzfeed that you've probably seen in fandom memes before. So you can use that as your squick-o-meter when it comes to this ship.

I will end this by saying I am not pro-ship. Inc//est and pedo//philia have no place in fandom and thinking these are okay could lead to harmful thinking in real life, especially with regards to children in fandom.

Selfcest is not technically on the same level as inc//est, and yes, I know, in the words of the great Buzzfeed Unsolved team, "anytime you have to say technically that's not great" but I really mean it here. We can still say technically here.

TL;DR: yeah syl//ki is more than likely selfcest. don't send hate to people who ship it tho (this includes the showrunners).

[bigskydreaming]

@spikeface

ohhhh hell yeah I have not forgotten, like I tend to keep the examples limited to interactions with Scott to point out the blatant double standards in play but also because I am so tired of the abuse apologism arguments that come with any criticism of Derek’s actions in regards to teenage characters in the first two seasons in general, like, I know the dude had a hard time that doesn’t mean paying that forward is an acceptable standard of behavior for interacting with scared and vulnerable teenagers. ALSO not to bring it back around to Scott AGAIN but also umm Im me so okay I will I have the go-ahead, but like......literally every single argument and justification people make about Derek’s behavior and choices in the first two seasons because of what happened with Kate and how he doesn’t trust people because of that and he’s traumatized is rendered null and void by their simultaneous bullshit insistence that none of this logic means anything when it comes to Scott and.....wait for it....what happened with Theo and trust and traumatized or does being betrayed by someone you were starting to consider a good friend and murdered not count as trauma? I forget.

You can’t have it both ways but people are like Yes I can *rolls up sleeves* watch me.

Aaaaaand since we’re already here, why not, I’m going for it, soooooo getting in on the ground floor before people are like WELL THAT’S DIFFERENT BECAUSE STILES TRIED TO WARN SCOTT SO HE SHOULD’VE KNOWN UNLIKE DEREK WHO COULDN’T HAVE, umm: 

a) that’s not how trust works, its not by proxy, you either trust someone or you don’t and someone else telling you that you shouldn’t does not in fact render a betrayal of trust any less a betrayal of trust, this is LITERALLY just victim-blaming the betrayed, something that people are absolutely aware of because just imagine the shrieks of protest if someone were to posit an AU where someone warned Derek not to trust Kate but he still did anyway and so that made everything else that happened all his fault. 

b) you do not owe even your best friends unconditional trust in every opinion they have OVER your own opinions, it honestly truly DEEPLY makes me uncomfortable how often people raise this point because Stiles could distrust Theo all he wanted, Scott is still entitled to his own opinions based on his own perceptions of his own interactions with Theo, which were different than Stiles’ interactions, and Scott was in no way, shape or form obligated to uphold Stiles’ perceptions and interactions of and with Theo as more important than Scott’s own, what even is that wtfuckery

c) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was unfortunately watered down and diluted by the fact that he was lying to Scott and keeping secrets from him for weeks, which was his right and he was traumatized himself by what happened with Donovan, but the flip side of that is Scott was keenly aware that Stiles was lying to him about stuff and even had a whole freaking monologue about it and how he wished Stiles would just talk to him and tell him what he was hiding and in what universe is someone obligated to unconditionally believe their friend and abide by what they’re saying and wanting WHILE AT THE EXACT SAME TIME being lied to by that same friend? 

d) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was additionally watered down and diluted by the fact that even after he had actual foolproof evidence that Theo was a liar and not to be trusted, he refrained from informing Scott of this because he prioritized his own feelings about what might come out about him in the process of telling Scott, which again, was absolutely his right to do and be worried about but it is NOT his right to be retroactively extradited from any role he played in Scott’s perceptions of events that season by not divulging this information even while actively still JUDGING Scott for not acting on information re: Theo that Scott literally did not have to act upon, just his own interactions with Theo where Theo was actively and continually working on being seen as not only trustworthy but INVALUABLE in Scott’s eyes, while everyone else was off preoccupied with their own stuff leaving Scott with no one BUT Theo to turn to. Which was literally Theo’s entire plan in dividing them in order to make Scott vulnerable in the first place, just as Scott ultimately was more victimized by Theo than any of the other surviving members of S5 as he was the one y’know, MURDERED, but again let’s talk some more about how it was Stiles and everyone else who was more betrayed and let down by Scott’s choice to trust Theo than Scott was himself 

(and so help me GOD if someone brings up Josh or Tracy like they give a fuck about them, lolol, fun fact, but most of the posts about Josh and Tracy in S5 while it was airing were mine, like, 90% of their tags was me posting, yeah c’mon guys we’re aware I can be prolific when I hyper-fixate I’m not exaggerating here lol I POSTED ABOUT JOSH A LOT OKAY lololol. So I keenly remember the weeks between Josh’s death episode and the episode which revealed that Scott got to Deucalion before Theo did, because that was two whole weeks of people being like who the fuck cares about Josh, other than like, me and some mutuals, until the SECOND fandom found a way to spin Scott as being tangentially responsible for Josh’s death, at which point suddenly it was like OMG JOSH WE LOVED YOU ALL ALONG, WE’RE SO SORRY THAT MONSTER DID THIS TO YOU. The whiplash would be hilarious if I didn’t hate it so much)

e) Stiles’ distrust of Theo was additionally watered down and diluted by the fact that he was WRONG about everything he initially brought up as WHY he distrusted Theo, his whole thesis to Scott at the start of the season was that he didn’t trust Theo because he remembered Theo from fourth grade and Theo wasn’t Theo but uh.....yes he was. He wanted Scott not to trust Theo on a basis that was flawed and had no grounding in reality other than Stiles’ own unreliable gut instincts with no care or concern whatsoever for Scott’s own gut instincts, and simultaneously, Stiles in the throes of being like THEO IM ON TO YOU YOU FAKER (Theo in the distance: Lol no you’re not, you just don’t like me, there’s a difference), ANYWAY, Stiles at the exact same time as being focused on not just Theo but what he felt Scott SHOULD be doing and thinking in regards to Theo and Stiles’ opinions, somehow managed to completely overlook and give no fucks about Scott’s ACTUAL thoughts and actions re: Theo, as if he had been paying more attention to the actual character of his friend rather than just his perception and assumptions about his friend, he would have noticed that Scott DIDN’T blindly trust Theo from the start, because Scott DOESN’T actually blindly trust anyone and actually has trust issues out the wazoo from all the times he’s been hurt, betrayed and let down by people he cares about from his deadbeat dad to the many murder and manipulation attempts of Peter, whom he has canonically never trusted despite Stiles’ insistence that he even trusts Peter (lol where? when? source?).....ergo, ipso facto, forsooth and all that good shit.....Stiles wanted Scott’s complete obedience and allegiance in S5 to everything he said and thought while at the exact same time giving no fucks about anything going on WITH Scott himself. Hashtag friendship goals, am I right guys?

f) the fatal flaw of the Sciles schism in S5 was not in fact the warring opinions on Scott and Stiles’ respective trust and distrust of Theo, but rather what S5 revealed about Scott and Stiles’ respect trust and distrust of EACH OTHER. In point of fact, the only thing truly revealed by the events of that season is that Scott doesn’t automatically trust just anyone, but that his trust must be EARNED - a process Theo invested considerable effort in doing, as he actually paid attention to Scott and the actuality of things he said and did and why - and that Stiles in contrast doesn’t just automatically distrust anyone, but rather makes snap judgments about whether or not to PUT his trust in others based on what he’s feeling. 

Basically, my point is that Scott views trust as a function of information gathering and ultimately a decision to put it to the test or not, to actually just say okay based on what I know and feel at this point, I am making the choice NOW to trust in someone. Stiles in contrast, views trust as something he doesn’t fundamentally NEED in his interactions with people, and as such he uses it to shore up and buttress various other things about himself and his interactions with people. 

This is why Scott started out the season WITH reservations about Theo, that led to him asking Deaton questions about how vulnerable he and his pack might be due to allowing a strange newcomer into their midst, but ultimately placing more and more trust in Theo as the season went on, BASED on Theo’s ongoing campaign to win Scott’s trust by seeming trustworthy and helpful and supportive. 

Meanwhile, Stiles started out the season WITH reservations about Theo, that informed all his actions regarding Theo UNTIL he got concrete proof that Theo was a liar, BUT continued to interact with Theo and even work alongside him even KNOWING he wasn’t trustworthy, because trust was not after all the most important element informing his actions because it never HAD been. More importantly, the reason this all plays more into Scott and Stiles’ view of each other than anything to do with Theo, was because the ONLY reason Theo was able to play them against each other was Theo keyed into the fact that Stiles, despite placing a lot of importance in the IDEA of trust, never actually fully makes the leap into actually PLACING his trust in ANYONE, even someone like his best friend Scott, who has proven MULTIPLE times how invaluable Stiles is to him.....because if Stiles ever HAD fully placed his trust in Scott, he would have been able to look at the concrete precedent of Scott saying throughout the entire nogitsune ordeal that he flat out didn’t CARE if people died because of the nogitsune, because of Stiles himself, he wasn’t going to sacrifice Stiles to save the lives of strangers he just simply doesn’t value as being more important to him than Stiles himself. 

And by extension, if Stiles HAD ever fully placed his trust in Scott after this, then his fears about Donovan would have fallen by the wayside as - just like it was ultimately proven out in 5B after Scott heard the WHOLE story and not the parts Theo told him backed up by the lies of ommission Stiles HADN’T told Scott and the fact that Scott had been keyed into Stiles’ feelings of guilt over something for weeks - Scott would then have expressed to Stiles just as he ultimately DID express to Stiles: that he can tell the difference between self-defense and cold-blooded murder, and Stiles killing Donovan in self-defense was not a problem for Scott and NEVER WAS OR WOULD HAVE BEEN.

In conclusion, the biggest issue in S5 is not that Scott trusts everyone, its that even after everything, Stiles still doesn’t even trust Scott.

And if you can’t trust the best friend who’s proven that he will literally do anything for you, at any time, just say the word, to such an extent that you’ll pull back from him and refrain from working with him and being around him AT THE EXACT SAME TIME as demonstrating that you will be around and work alongside someone you don’t even like and definitely do not trust.....

Then trust is not the be all and end all for you, and it never actually was, and if you can’t grant it to even your friend why does your friend owe you his, let alone UNCONDITIONAL trust in not just you, but every opinion and course of action you advocate for?

*bangs gavel* The defense rests. Or the prosecution rests. Fuck, I forgot which side I’m on. Am I accusing or defending? Idek.

Whatever. I rest.