#Aveline Critical

[jzargo]

"you only hate aveline because you hate women" idk how to break it to you but the biggest woman-hater in the room is in fact aveline herself (slut-shames isabela every other breath) (calls merrill stupid) (does nothing when her guardsmen are accused of sexually assaulting an elven girl) (doesn't investigate a serial killer who specifically targets women)

[flashhwing]

I know why the writers chose to prioritize Isabela over Aveline and Merrill over Fenris when it comes to the temptations in Night Terrors, but I understand the characters better and I think it should be the opposite. Aveline gets tempted over Isabela and Merrill stays her ground against a demon longer than Fenris

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

I said I wasn't going to get started on the topic of Aveline ruining Carver's chances with the guard but I lied okay, it's Carver Hawke defense hours.

Here's the thing; it doesn't matter if you believe Carver was or wasn't fit for the guard. That's a different debate that I'll get to. What matters is Aveline's in no position to tell the guard not to accept his application. Why does she think that's her right to judge whether or not he's fit?

Carver should've had the chance to prove himself one way or another. If it turns out he's not a good fit, then let him fail. Let him learn from it.

"Oh but failure could mean lost lives-"

Aveline doesn't get to talk shit about failure and the people. Plenty have died on her watch yet she still believes she's a good guard and Guard-Captain.

"maybe Aveline's protecting him, Carver could die while on patrol-"

Carver could die working in the Bone Pit, or serving as a templar, or when he's running around with Hawke. Carver could trip and fall down a set of stairs and die. In fact, he can die in the Deep Roads, somewhere he wouldn't have to go if the Hawke's weren't desperate.

Either Carver fails as a guard, or more likely, he succeeds and proves himself worthy of it.

But let's be real, Carver probably kept getting rejected due to being a Fereldan with a past of smuggling/mercenary work and Aveline only reaffirmed the decision, either because they asked her what she thought or she stuck her nose in unprompted.

But what irritates me is that she admits to telling them not to accept his application, and then has the balls to call Carver too proud to take up a trade or find another line of work.

Carver tells her, "And who would take on a Fereldan apprentice? Maybe in another year I could work my way up to pissboy." He has a good point here. Aside from the guard, the only other place Carver could work and use his skillset is with the Templars. Or go back to mercenary/smuggling work.

And Aveline doesn't even have a real answer for him. No suggestions, no encouragement, nothing. Just "Fine, let's crawl down some holes. Good bloody luck for your sake."

Also, if you do the Mark of the Assassin DLC in Act 1-

Aveline: You should see if any of the noblemen are looking for new men-at-arms. Carver: Are you trying to get rid of me? Aveline: It's a role with some autonomy. A good fit with your training and... tendencies. Carver: After serving King Cailan? You want me to suffer some poncy git who needs two servants to wipe his own ass? I'll find my own way, thanks. Aveline: I wish you would.

You wish he would?? Aveline, he was trying to find his way into the guard, a position he'd make a good fit for, and you helped deny him of it because YOU didn't think he would be good enough, I just-

If I haven't made it clear yet, I firmly believe that Carver would've made a great guard. He wants to help people, to be a protector. He's loyal, and despite what Aveline claims, he can follow orders and take his duty seriously. We see him do incredibly well with the Grey Wardens, after all. If he were a guard, he wouldn't have to go down into the Deep Roads with Hawke, and I think he would've been okay with that! He's so hurt and bitter when you leave him behind because that effectively tells him, "I don't need you." Carver's spent the whole first act telling you he wants to go on the expedition aka that he wants to be needed.

But if he were a guard, he would be needed elsewhere. He'd be in training as a recruit. He'd look after Leandra while you go. He wouldn't be backed into a corner with no income and only the templars left as his chance at forging his own path and providing for his family.

He doesn't get that opportunity, though.

By the way, if he becomes a warden, you can get this banter:

Aveline: I'm glad you found a place with the Wardens. Carver: Well, it's not the city guard, but it'll do. Aveline: Carver... it wasn't the place for you. Carver: No, it's all right. It is. It cost a lot, but I get it. I really was a bit of a tit those days, wasn't I? Aveline: Well...

This banter makes me want to scream.

Aveline's just... she's so insistent that she's right. She's someone who will double down rather than entertain the idea that she's wrong and it's not just with Carver and the guard, it's with everything. The "my beef with Aveline" list gets longer and longer every time I replay da2, I swear.

Say what you will about Carver, whether you think he would've been a good fit or if Aveline's right and it wasn't for him, he was denied a chance and it cost him so much in the end. He either dies, or he joins the templars where he deals with Chantry's bullshit trying to brainwash him with "mages aren't people" and "magic is a cancer in this world", or he's infected with the blight and becomes a Grey Warden, forced to serve the rest of his life fighting darkspawn, tormented by voices and nightmares.

I will never not be bitter about this.

[crossdressingdeath]

Aveline: What about you, Carver? You were there [at Ostagar]. Do you feel something similar? Carver: No. Aveline: All right, then. [to Hawke] Bit of a tit, your brother.

Oh yes, how dare he not want to talk about his emotional response to Ostagar with someone he very openly doesn't like. Clearly this makes him rude and difficult and not just understandably unwilling to talk about his feelings with the woman who does nothing but nag him about work and spy on him no matter how many times he tells her to stop!

Why can't I tell Aveline to get fucked here, honestly. If there's one person who absolutely is not allowed to talk shit about Carver...

[mourn-and-watch]

i know that aveline's condolences scene is supposed to be about understanding of other's grief but oh boy does it feel completely utterly wrong when you remember how she has treated the white lillies killer situation at the beginning of act 2 and how she just. never mentiones it if hawke doesn't call her out. and if they do her only response is "well people always blame the guard".

i believe she's genuine when she tries to comfort hawke by relating to their pain and telling about her father and how he died and how she'll miss leandra too but. the thing is. she knew about these murders as the captain of the guard and even asked hawke to help her with this. by shutting the guy who tried to investigate it up. because he talked nonsense. or did he.

hawke feels like shit and is consumed by guilt because they couldn't save their mother but aveline kinda should share the sentiment. there was a serial killer in the city and she did absolutely nothing to stop him and gave up on investigation because all of it seemed random and therefore couldn't be solved. it was literally her job but she decided not to act on it. consciously. so people died and if that wasn't enough, her friend's mother died, horribly too. is there really nothing to be said besides "well my father died too you know. it's okay to grieve. take your time" or "well the guard can't save everyone. blame the killer not me"

[elfroot-and-laurels-moved]

"why do you not like aveline"

gee i fucking wonder

[zundely]

One thing that annoys me to no end about how Aveline's involvement and inaction im "Prime suspect" questline pans out is that they basically took the worst of both worlds.

Like you could want Aveline's inaction to be part of her development and a character flaw- which is very consisten with how she usually prioritizes the guards safety and overall image over literally anything else including their duty to protect the people. Like the investigation wasn't going anywhere and it made the guard look bad so she is dropping it because to her the smallest chance that Emeric is in fact right and people are in danger isn't worth the damage to the guard in case he is wrong. This is also good foreshadowing for when this worst trait of Aveline results in Qunari invasion. The only thing that makes me doubt this was the intention is that Aveline never gets the "Oh shit, I am not meant to protect the guard- I am meant to make sure the guard protects everyone else" moment, which was dierly needed if that's what they were going for. It was direly needed in Aveline's case in general because considering all the characters get their "Questioning beliefs" moments... Aveline's questioned beliefs are the most vague.

So lets imagine this is not what they were going for for a moment which honestly I find plausible considering the game tends to frame Aveline as mostly reasonable and how the talk afterwards goes if you do point out it was her fault. Lets imagine that Aveline wasn't supposed to be the one to blame here, the game just needed a reason for why Hawke got mixed up with the investigation- I still to this day do not get why they didn't use the perfect reason we later learned they had.

The investigation was constantly being poisoned by Orsino. Since we learn in the end that Orsino was aware of Quentins existance but keeping it under wraps to not justify Meredith's methods, he could also do what he can to make sure he was untraceable. And obviously he wouldn't know exactly what Quentin was involved with, he wouldn't believe the rumors that were cirrculating- they make every other apostate sound like a bloodthirsty killer after all.

Aveline would notice something is off and official ways of investigating are being stopped in their tracks. So she goes to Hawke with "listen this may be nothing but I feel someone really doesn't want us to find out anything in this case, and I have a bad feeling."

This way you kill two birds with one stone- you absolve Aveline of all the responsibility for what happens and you give a hint Quentin had some powerful friends.

Now I know this would put Orsino in a worse light were in the game he just turns the blind eye, but at least to me it doesn't make him necessarily a bad person? Just a man under immense amount of pressure who is very aware of how one bad thing a out one mage puts all of them in danger. I think this would also potentially make his relationship with Hawke absolutely heartbreaking especially if Hawke supports the mages. Like how do you tell the one most powerfull ally you have that you are indirectly responsible for the worst thing that happened to them.

While I personally think having Aveline be responsible for what happened and take some time to think on it would be better for the story and for her character growth I think the second option also had a good narrative potential- but instead they sort of took both of those but not really. Aveline's inaction hurts the one she swore to protect... but not really. Orsino knew about Quentin and is therefore to some extent responsible for what happened... but not really. Hawke's mother is dead and we didn't even get a churro out of it.

[anneapocalypse]

On Aveline’s Core Value

Disclaimer: This post is necessarily going to be critical of some of Aveline’s actions. I want to say upfront that my intent isn't to bash Aveline, but as someone who likes her and finds her interesting as a character, to explore her motives and understand her better. That said, if that’s not for you, feel free to scroll on by!

Also, warning for mention of sexual assault.

The same traits that make Hawke's "essential" companions stick by Hawke no matter what are also their greatest character flaws. I love this and find it utterly fascinating.

Aveline’s core value is loyalty.

I would argue that she values loyalty even more highly than law and order. I think loyalty is the primary trait she admires in her first husband, Ser Wesley. Aveline isn’t particularly religious herself; what she sees in Wesley is a man who believes in something, who has dedicated himself to a cause with absolute certainty. Aveline craves certainty and order in her life, and hates feeling doubt and confusion, something that comes up both in her short story “Aveline” and in her post-“Night Terrors” apology quest, “Doubts That Linger.”

She says Wesley was “a good man.” We don’t really have much to go on firsthand, since all we see of Ser Wesley is him menacing apostates fleeing the Blight, and then dying. But notice how Aveline responds to the menacing! “Dear, they saved us. The Maker understands.” Wesley’s duty as a templar is less important to her than showing appropriate deference to the people who have proven themselves allies. In my most recent playthrough, I rivaled Aveline for the first time ever, and I think it’s fascinating that in a rivalry, Aveline’s attitude toward Hawke is very much that she owes Hawke, rather than particularly liking them.

As a member of the guard, Aveline’s beef with Captain Jevan isn’t that he is incompetent, too soft or too hard on crime. It’s that he’s selling out his own people. It’s not merely that he is unlawful; it’s that he is disloyal that really grinds Aveline’s gears. Her own term as Guard-Captain is marked, not by a decrease in violence or crime generally, but by higher safety standards for the guards themselves. Her main point of pride is not that she has made Kirkwall safer but that she has made the Guard safer. She’s happy to let mercenaries like Hawke handle the various gangs that stalk the streets at night, and never indicates that she thinks this should be her jurisdiction, instead remarking that she doesn’t make her men “fight in dark corners.” So… what is their job, exactly, if not making the streets safe?

We also know that Aveline by her own admission has aided the templars by turning over apostates. Yet she never does so to Hawke or any of Hawke’s mage friends. In this regard, she’s similar to Fenris; Sebastian at one point broaches the subject of telling the templars about Hawke’s mage friends, to which Fenris says, “Work it out with Hawke”; it’s not that he disapproves, but that he refuses to betray Hawke. And if you take Fenris along for “On the Loose” and let Emile go, Fenris will rat him out to Meredith, so we know he’s willing to turn in mages in general. Like Fenris, Aveline is consciously making an exception for Hawke and Hawke’s friends.

Three years into Aveline’s tenure as Captain, it is suggested that, horrifyingly, she may have been dragging her feet on investigating rumors of sexual assault by her guards. This is particularly ironic as Aveline calls Isabela a “selfish little shit” for holding onto the Tome of Koslun the whole time—a fair criticism, except for the fact that had Aveline not been more concerned with protecting her own than making Kirkwall safer, the murder that was the catalyst for the Qunari invasion might never have happened. Isabela was responsible for the Qunari being in Kirkwall in the first place, but Aveline also bears a share of responsibility for that situation ending in violence.

This is why it makes sense for her to approve if Hawke lets Castillon go just so Isabela can get his ship. Despite Aveline’s long-running tension with Isabela, by Act III she considers Isabela to be one of her people. As she says to the Arishok, “Oh, no. If anyone kicks her ass, it’s me.” I think when she finds out about the tome, she’s angry not just because Isabela is responsible, but because in keeping it a secret she placed her own interests above everyone else’s, including her own friends; she was disloyal to them. When Isabela returns with the tome, she proves her loyalty, and Aveline notably softens on her in Act III. So Hawke refusing to defer to Isabela’s wishes here makes Hawke lawful, yes, but it also makes Hawke disloyal.

And in the end, Aveline will fight at Hawke's side under nearly all circumstances, because she is loyal above all else.

[breadedsinner]

Listen you all know I don't care about either of these chucklefucks but... HOW is it not fair, exactly.

[sapphim]

it is SO striking that during magistrate's orders in act 1 aveline is JUST as gung-ho for extrajudicial execution as everyone else in the party. she absolutely definitely approves of killing kelder and disapproves of remitting him to a corrupt justice system. but three years later in demands of the qun when it's HER guards being accused of assaulting elven women suddenly she's like "well damn that is SUPER not my problem." it is soooooo #lean in #girlboss of her, honestly. if I thought bioware nemesis was INTENDING to say ACAB here I would be impressed, actually! but alas, lmao

[jzargo]

"you only hate aveline because you hate WOMEN" / "you only hate aveline bcs you hate butch/gnc women" while i am sure there is some validity to this (cullen, other resident Cop™ does not get nearly the same level of hate and criticism as aveline does, and he was such a fan favorite he was brought back for 2 more games than initially planned) the fact of the matter is that unfortunately aveline is a corrupt cop. and she isn't even intentionally written that way. we can't even call her an interesting villain because she's not supposed to be a villain. she's supposed to be our best friend, she's supposed to be the Moral Backbone of the group, she's supposed to be the Mom Friend, she's supposed to be Always Right. and yet she deliberately bars carver from joining the guard (pushing him to join the Templars instead if he's left behind on the expedition), slut-shames isabela to a ridiculous and uncomfortable degree, doesn't bother investigating her guards when rape and murder allegations are brought against them, and neglects her duties so badly that hawke's mother is murdered in an entirely preventable case.

she just sucks. i'm sorry. i wanted to love her. i did love her on my first few playthroughs before i started to really look at her character, listen to her banters, and look at what she actually does within the story. she's just not written well. i'm sorry. blame lukas kristjanson.

anyways if you want a buff guardswoman who isn't corrupt and is worthy of your love and friendship, please go play Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and meet Seelah.

[knife-eared-jan]

Lol, I made the mistake of setting one foot into DA Reddit (I know, my mistake, I only have myself to blame, what was I expecting) and first post I open, there's a dozen of them all echoing each other about how Aveline and Donnic have the most loving relationship in all of Dragon Age??? Specifically most loving vs the most toxic???

I know I'm Aveline critical to the point of being annoying, but I mean, did we play the same game?

We're talking about the same romance? Where a superior propositions her subordinate? That continues to be his superior if they get together, and who has the literal power to put the subordinate's life in danger if she so choose? That subordinate who apparently doesn't feel comfortable telling his partner/superior he's visiting a mutual friend lest he provoke her anger?

I mean, if you enjoy that stuff as a fictional thing, you do you. Enjoy your fantasy... I know I'm into reading some unhealthy shit to blow off steam.

But most loving, opposite of toxic????

[stop-breaking-my-heart-dragonage]

Okay I thought I was done but apparently I'm not. I need to talk more about this banter you can get during the Legacy DLC between Aveline and Warden Carver because it makes me want to scream.

Aveline: I'm glad you found a place with the Wardens. Carver: Well, it's not the city guard, but it'll do. Aveline: Carver... it wasn't the place for you. Carver: No, it's all right. It is. It cost a lot, but I get it. I really was a bit of a tit those days, wasn't I? Aveline: Well...

In my last post, I talked about how Aveline had no place telling the guard to refuse Carver's application, regardless of if he was "right" for the job or not. But I believe he would've made a great guard, and getting that job not only would've provided for him and his family during a desperate time, but would've prevented him from either fate of becoming a warden or a templar. He was unfairly robbed of a chance to prove himself because Aveline believed he wasn't right for the guard.

This is one of the banters I brought up but didn't go too in depth about. At this point, it's been between 3-6 years since Act 1, depending on if you decided to do Legacy in Act 2 or Act 3, and every line here is important.

Carver's response to Aveline saying she's glad he "found a place" with the wardens is so telling. Not being accepted by the guard is still on his mind after all this time. He wouldn't bring it up if it didn't still bother him, and implies that he still would've preferred the guard over the wardens.

Which... yeah. Listen, I'm a dedicated "Carver joins the Grey Warden" player. I don't like leaving him behind to become a templar, and I certainly don't like him dying. For me, the Grey Wardens are the best outcome he has. It’s where he seems the happiest and finds the most fulfilment, and it fits well with how I play my Hawke. But it obviously has some tragic issues.

Like the fact that becoming a Grey Warden only delayed his inevitable death within the Deep Roads. Eventually his Calling will come, and Carver will go back down there and fight until the darkspawn eventually kill him. I'm sure that's not traumatic to think about given he was a soldier at Ostagar and then watched Bethany die at the hands of an ogre. Oh, and there's the whole nightmares and voices thing.

Carver didn't choose this life for himself. It was either this or death, but a "what if?" still lingers in his mind about the city guard.

Something Aveline ruined for him.

And continues to ruin.

Aveline: Carver... it wasn't the place for you.

You hear that? In the distance? That's me screaming.

I must reiterate; what makes Aveline believe it's her place to tell Carver whether or not the city guard was right for him? Why did she think she should get a say in whether or not the guard takes him? What's made it HER call?

And still, after all this time has passed, she believes it wasn't right for him and she's unwilling to consider otherwise. Maker forbid she do some reflection and question if she was in the right for interfering at all, too!

Carver is standing right there before her, proving everything she said about him wrong, and she just doubles down. There's no reason to say this to him unless she's trying to remind him of his place; he's a Grey Warden, and she's Guard-Captain of Kirkwall's city guard. But c'mon, Aveline, he's hardly a threat to your precious guard anymore given the whole dedication to killing darkspawn thing he has now.

Maybe if you paid more attention to the threats within your guard, Kirkwall would be a safer place with less murder going around? Just saying!

But isn't that how it's always been? Aveline putting him in his place, making sure Carver remembers she's always outranked him?

Carver: Did you approve my application? Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver. Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me? Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders. Carver: [laughs] No you don't. Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous. Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you? Aveline: Yes.

That he should remember who he's talking to?

Carver: I'm surprised you still travel with us, Aveline. Aveline: Carver, don't. Carver: You're ever so busy with the guardsmen. It must be a burden to slum with the refugees. Aveline: It's oddly comforting that you insult me like I'm family. Carver: That wasn't... no, I didn't mean that. Aveline: I know. But you should be glad that's how I took it.

That she's in charge?

Aveline: Your form's sloppy, Carver. Stiffen up or the darkspawn will take your blade. Carver: Right. I'll keep that in mind. Aveline: And you're angry, why? Carver: You didn't fare any better than I did the last time we faced darkspawn. Aveline: If they take your blade, people die. That's not happening again. Stiffen up. Carver: Yes ma'am.

Oh, and she used to spy on him [and Hawke].

Aveline: I don't like some of the people you've been associating with, Carver. Carver: Talk to my brother/sister. He/She's the one in charge. Aveline:  Maybe, but I know you get around. This city's full of people who are dead set on ending badly. I don't want to see you end up the same way. Carver: Would asking you to stop spying on me help in the least? Aveline: No.

That's their banter.

But sure, she's glad he found a place in the wardens. I don't think she's being ingenuine when she says that, but I think it's a little more complicated than a mere "congrats on doing well, I knew you could do it."

But Carver's response? Oh Maker's ass. It actually hurts me.

Carver: No, it's all right. It is. It cost a lot, but I get it. I really was a bit of a tit those days, wasn't I? Aveline: Well...

I... what can I even say?

He accepts it, but you can tell it hurts to do so. It DID cost a lot. More than Aveline will ever understand. And it doesn't matter now! He can't become a guard now anyway, so what would be the point in him disagreeing with her? Carver acts as the bigger person here because he does get it, even if Aveline doesn't.

But it's that last part... that last damn part... Don't be alarmed, that screaming you hear is still me.

Here's the deal; Carver acknowledges that he could be an ass back in Act 1. Hell, he acknowledges it IN Act 1. For example, when you talk to him after finding your grandfather's will, he's an ass to you about Bethany no matter what you say.

But y'know what? You can be the biggest piece of shit to him and have Hawke literally call him a "lazy brat with a chip on his shoulder," and Carver will still be the one to be apologetic for what he said and attempt to explain his feelings.

"Brother/Sister... I feel... I don't know. It's like Mother taking things out on us. She was just scared. I don't have a place in the life she's trying to bring back…"

Carver can be an ass, but he's aware of that and actively tries to change his behavior. If you bring him and Fenris with you on the Mark of the Assassin DLC, there's a moment where Carver says, "You still don't like me? I've tried to change." And if you bring Varric, he once again acknowledges that he used to be an ass.

BUT... that being said. If you don't remember, "I really was a bit of a tit those days, wasn't I?" is referencing back to this conversation in the barracks of Act 1:

Hawke: This must be a very different pace from serving King Cailan. Aveline: It's just one more change, though. The real end for me was Ostagar. What about you Carver? You were there. Do you feel something similar? Carver: No. Aveline: All right, then. Bit of a tit, your brother.

Now, I've already expressed my beef with Aveline over insulting Carver in the middle of the barracks just because he doesn't agree with her view point on Ostagar... but consider the fact that Carver says nothing. He just lets her insult him without a complaint! Carver Hawke, who tends to complain! And he says nothing!

Not only that, but he actually internalized that insult enough that years later he's able to repeat it back to Aveline word for word, and all she has to say is, "Well..."

This isn't the same thing as him reflecting on his past behavior and acknowledging his flaws. This is Carver accepting a snide jab Aveline made that hurt him because apparently he was wrong for not wanting to discuss any trauma Ostagar left him with as openly as she does.

Oh, and don't forget that any other companion you brought along dogpiles on, too!

Carver: No, it's all right. It is. It cost a lot, but I get it. I really was a bit of a tit those days, wasn't I? Aveline: Well... Varric: No shit. Fenris: Insufferable. Isabela: Legendary. Anders: Maker, yes. Sebastian: I've heard as much. [If Hawke has a humorous/charming personality] Hawke: Spoiled, annoying, thick-headed, brattish little nitwit of a... oh, have we stopped?

Y'all ever wonder why he's so on edge or hostile with the other companions?

Also, I have to point out that Merrill is the only companion who doesn't say anything in agreement if she's there. In fact, across all their banter, Merrill's never been rude or insulting toward him. All she does is ask him if he's talking dirty to her and compliments him on what a great sworder he is. It's pretty obvious why Carver develops a crush on her, c'mon.

But to wrap this up-

This banter strikes a nerve due to how telling it is about both characters involved.

Carver has grown and done what he can to improve himself, but there's regret that lingers, a longing for a better life he could've had if given a chance. Maybe he would've failed, maybe he would've succeeded. But there's nothing he can do now, so he looks forward, just as he's always wanted to do. He's a damn good Grey Warden who wants to do right.

Aveline remains stagnant. She hasn't changed, nor has she improved, and maybe she would if she could figure out how to dislodge her head from her own ass. She still believes she was in the right to tell the guard not to accept Carver's application despite knowing the Hawke's were desperate and that Fereldan refugees couldn't find work. She knew Carver's a skilled soldier who fought at Ostagar just as she did. The guard wasn't the place for him so she's in the right to deny him any chance. Aveline knows best.

And y'know what, I think all I have left to say is...

Fine, Aveline. You're right. It wasn't the place for him.

Carver was too good for your city guard.

[crossdressingdeath]

Aveline: So, Carver, have you thought about what you'll do if your expedition doesn't pay off? Carver: This is our only chance and you know it. Aveline: You're so damned proud you couldn't pick up a trade? Carver: And who would take a Fereldan apprentice? Maybe in another year I could work my way up to piss-boy. Aveline: Fine, let's crawl down some holes. Good bloody luck for your sake.

I'd be more likely (although still not very likely) to side with Aveline here if it wasn't for the fact that I know that Carver applied to work for the city guard, which seems to be one of the only organizations even slightly willing to hire Fereldans. It's not that he sat around sulking and not looking for work! He was working for (in this case) Meeran with Hawke for a year, he's helping Hawke out with their odd jobs, and he very much did try to get a job... only for Aveline to deliberately sabotage him. That's probably already happened at this point! I don't get the sense there's a huge amount of time between the start of act 1 and the expedition! So Aveline is nagging Carver about going on this expedition instead of Getting A Real Job when she's actively blocking him from doing that, which is just great. Doesn't make me want to punch her in the face or anything. It's fine.

[mourn-and-watch]

i've never heard this line before because i don't usually bring aveline along and man. this is. surely a take to have about fereldan refugees in darktown

[elfroot-and-laurels-moved]

favorite phenom in dragon age is when the devs attempted to write girlboss feminist girlies and then just made them insufferably racist, corrupt, and white.