#-super positive All the time I'll lose everyone i love'' so like haha love that.

[noemitenshi]

OH i love your thoughts, don't mind if I add mine hihi

troy chopping zombies arms off: absolutely you *are* a genius and it was hilarious watching that happen. also yes, i'm leaning towards 'he lied about killing alicia' too... maybe wishful thinking, who knows

the fucking name TRACY: yes hate it, still, still hate it so fucking much. and yes, no explanation is gonna help here unless i dunno the head injury fucked severely with his memories!?!? I think however I'll take tracy not being his bio daughter and already having that name when he met her as a possible explanation for future fics 😂🙃

agree that the whole 'tracy's mom' thing feels fanfic-y and not in a good way 😂😂 that's like the least imaginative thing they could come up with, if you ask me🙈🙈 (though VERY yes for Madison having killed her and I DO hope he means actually sliced her in half or shot her or caved her head in with the hammer and NOT was the indirect cause of her death 😈 (since, you know, they are interpreting the 'you took everything from me' etc *very liberally* so far - and don't get me started on everyone's faulty memory concerning s3 events. I mean yes it's been years so that could explain it but STILL so fucking jarring)

"so far everything I thought I'd be meh has actually been pretty good so it's very possible if that IS what's happened I'll still like it a lot but I want there to be more to it than that i think" quoting this one since i agree completely, nothing to add, just lots of furious nodding

Troy having a kid: Love it. Love the concept. Love the execution so far! (Also his kid going out during such a dangerous time bc she has never seen a tanker is such a Troy thing to do haha like yes, she's his). The way we see him show actual emotions once she's missing, the way he goes "I dont have time for this, Madison" bc now he's really done playing... we didn't get to see a lot of his true emotions in s3, just glimpses here and there. Mostly he was playing with people, trying to be as annoying as humanly possible. Which, don't get me wrong, super entertaining but yeah, makes it harder to know the real troy. So I'm soaking all that stuff up, feels like a treat! I do hope we get lots more of that.

absolutely losing it over "can't wrap my mind around him being a shagger" 😂😂😂 (I can't stop laughing). Ok so, yes, it's a bit difficult to imagine, especially bc Troy was so closed off emotionally in s3 (he did this weird thing where he appeared open, in his interactions with Madison and also with Nick (the "you stayed at the ranch bc you love me") for example, but it was another type of shield, I think, he used it to hide behind, paradoxically enough). And yeah, he def didn't have any type of uhm intimate experience. But I could see how being rescued may make it difficult to hide himself. Because it puts him in a super vulnerable position (physically). He's badly hurt, probably barely conscious - and wholly dependent on this person's goodwill. Probably not thinking he'll get it, not even entertaining this possibility and when he does, against all his expectations, it'll disarm him. Intrigue him. Which will inform his future interactions with that person. She'll have earned some trust in this or let's say... has earned interactions with him that aren't confrontational (his favorite thing behind which he hides haha) and also not glib (second favorite thing to hide behind. sometimes this one feels like *truth* or *openness* as indicated above). and she keeps defying his expectations in regards to hm exploiting his vulnerability (emotional this time). and then they'll have established a basis for a relationship. not saying it needs to be romantic from the get-go, of course. But Troy is known to fixate and I think in this case it would happen again. He does have a weakness for people that show him a modicum of respect/humanity after all... so yes he'd take to her like a puppy, I can see that happening, easily actually. (Personally I think this growing into romance would need to come from her cause I don't see Troy even being able to quite tell when he's in love with another person haha. And I guess them hanging out day and night will give them ample opportunity to get to know one another and also fall in love? Dunno I get bored thinking about the mechanics since it sounds so cliche, i mean the whole being rescued from the dam and then becoming a couple thing is... But it's not the most unbelievable thing). I have no idea what my point was XD probably that depending on how quickly after being rescued he became a dad i can see that actually happening. sure i'd like something more exciting and hey! maybe they'll surprise us but I'm not holding my breath. seems his wife/gf is just needed so he has new grievances with madison and also so tracy (ugh that name 🤢) can exist

ftwd 8.08 thoughts

the vibe here is basically 'i thought i'd hate it but actualy for the most part i stan'

- charlie shoulda been the character image for this ep, not luciana (love her tho and it's good to see her again)

- charlie surviving was something i felt was kinda unnecessary when I found out about it bc like, they got rid of so many characters in kinda meh ways but charlie had an easy death explanation right there that they coulda used but I actually love that she was brought back and only for a small amount of time tbh

like we get to see some great stuff with her - madison finding out she killed nick, troy talking to her about nick - but don't have to have her around for the rest of the season when we only have 4 eps left and an already large cast to give screen time

- I think charlie basically killing herself for the cause makes sense. like I dont feel like they had her kill herself bc they didn't know what else to do with her (tho I'm sure if she stayed alive they wouldn't have known what to do with her lmao)

- charlie defo looked too young and her hair was shit but I can forgive it for the good content

- the nick flashbacks :( I miss him

- was some drama on twt bc some ppl said kim dickens isn't the best actor and my two cents is they're kinda right sorry. she's not bad all the time but she's rarely absolutely incredible. she's probs the weakest actor of all our main characters and has been since the early days. I will say tho that the sometimes the meh dialogue doesn't do her any favours

- daniel saying how he's gonna strangle troy with his bare hands... ily king but plz don't do that 😭

- I love that charlie and luciana are basically daniel's daughters, love them all a lot

- already knew about nick's ashes from leaks and it was another thing I was a bit ??? about bc I felt like they were doing that for the sake of having a bunch of references in the final eps but I think they explained why they have his remains pretty well actually and it being part of why madison didn't stay pissed at charlie was good

- troy going around chopping off walker arms to make madison think she's seeing alicia everywhere is so 😭 like first of all I'm a genius bc I called it and second of all I said in that post that I thought it would be a bit silly but it kinda works actually. I hope the reason he's doing that is bc he lied about killing her (tho I can defo see him cutting arms even if he has actually killed her)

- the tracy stuff was the stuff I was most iffy on bc the idea of troy having a daughter and a significant other is crazy to me and I do still feel that way a little but I also loved the scenes about it a lot so.. I'm optimistic.

- something about seeing troy be genuinely worried about someone is great. I loved madison and troy both being out there while he was running around worried for his kid idk like something about him kinda dropping that 'I'm tough and in charge' thing for a moment while he was worried about tracy and while madison was literally right there with him is the shit I'm SO in this for like AHHH. need more of it

- troy's daughter being called tracy is still dumb as fuck and I don't think they're gonna be able to give an explanation for her being called that that makes it less dumb. (like even troy being the kid's adoptive dad and not biological dad and the kid was already born before he met the kid's mother would still be a stupid explanation bc what are the odds)

- I know troy said that tracy's mum is the woman who saved him but I really hope there's more to it than 'troy was saved by a woman, they fell in love and had a kid and then madison killed the mum at some point' like.. the madison killing the mum part is really interesting and I'm excited to know more (my initial thought a while ago was that she killed the mum when her and tracy were out somewhere and took tracy to padre but clearly tracy isn't with padre so now idk) but the other stuff feels very fanfic-y and not in a good way idkkkk

so far everything I thought I'd be meh has actually been pretty good so it's very possible if that IS what's happened I'll still like it a lot but I want there to be more to it than that i think

- I feel like I'm at such a weird point right now where I loved the tracy stuff we got in this ep and I'm very intrigued by who the mum and is and what happened to her but at the same time I'm like troy having a wife(?) and kid still doesn't fully track in my mind so I keep going back and forth on how I feel avout it 😭 I basically just can't wrap my mind around him being a shagger sorry idk how else to say that

actually seeing it play out will probs warm me up to it a lot more bc that's what's been happening so far. I think the main reason I still find it odd is just that it's hard to take the 12yr time gap into consideration like he's not s3 troy anymore yknow A LOT has happened since then and he's obviously older and has experienced shit (that I would kill for a ton more information on)

- looking forward to the next ep but currently it's screaming that troy won't be in it much/at all which is Sad but if that is the case I'd rather get that out the way sooner than later

[alastors-wife]

ok I guess

[itsclydebitches]

I kinda wonder, what could bakugou do (hori write bakugou to do) to make him less popular with the "anti" crowd. Like He was a horrid child no doubt and people who try to put blame on Deku or lessen the terrible shit bakugou did aren't great. But as we don't rly see it, we have to assume bakugous behaviour wasn't stopped, we only ever saw his mum "punishing" him when he was being rude after getting kiddnapped. Nothing will excuse what bakugou did, but he has stopped? He's overall a harsh person but he's not harrassing and bullying people anymore, specifically not deku, he's trying to attone for what he did to deku and has now apologised for it. His behaviour was never viewed as justified or good in the series, he's a scary figure in middle school, we're not meant to like his behaviour, so the series itself hasn't justified his actions.

As someone who relate to both bakugou and deku more than I'd like to admit (never told someone to jump tho, that's fucked lol) so I can 100% understand not liking or even hating bakugou but as someone who's not 15 anymore, looking back I also made a lot of really shitty decisions and like bakugou have tried to make up for it, and like deku I was 'friends' with people who hurt me.

Is there anything he can do for the "antis" to just dislike him rather that be "anti"?

(I'm very sorry if you've talked about this somewhere, you can just tell me to look for it if you have, I'll continue to look for your posts on the subject)

Hey there, anon! I think I’ve spoken about this only tangentially and/or in my main Bakugo meta, which is too big for anyone sane to read. So yeah, let’s chat here!

For me personally—and that’s all I can ever do: speak personally. I think it’s important to keep in mind that there is no single solution to please the “anti” crowd. Each fan will be looking for something slightly different in Bakugo’s character, much of which might contradict what a “stan” is currently enjoying. Given how charged a character he is, I'm not sure it's possible to get the entire fandom to like him—what I’m looking for hinges on having a different reading of the story than you seem to. Meaning, I think the series does justify his behavior. Not in any overt, super obvious way like having all the characters go, “Wow, Bakugo! I sure do love how you threaten people all the time. That’s super cool and heroic!” Things are rarely that straightforward. Rather, it’s in a more subtle, but consistent manner that paints a rather conclusive picture across hundreds of chapters.

Simply put, Bakugo is continually rewarded for his actions. Or, if not outright rewarded, his actions are ignored in a way that implies silent acceptance. Characters may not always like what he does... but they're willing to let it slide because Bakugo's heroism was always treated as a given, not something he had to earn and prove.

With the ever necessary disclaimer that I’m not fully caught up yet, here’s a list of some of the things that stood out to me in the first half of the series:

Bakugo’s bullying made him the most popular kid in school.

Bakugo’s bullying was ignored by/outright supported by the teachers.

Bakugo’s bullying did not hinder him from getting into U.A., one of the most prestigious hero schools around.

Despite acting horribly throughout his time at U.A. too, this behavior was continually ignored by the teachers and other authority figures around him.

Bakugo’s struggle to realize that other people aren’t “trash” doesn’t hurt his achievements in any way. He still gets top scores, still wins the tournament, etc.

Bakugo’s behavior gets him special attention from All Might, the greatest hero and Bakugo’s personal idol.

His behavior doesn’t make others dislike him in any manner that’s taken seriously. Everybody is still willing to not just put up with Bakugo, but—in time—start treating his behavior as a quirk (no pun intended lol) that they’re secretly fond of, rather than something he should legitimately be striving to change. Kirishima is the most overt example of this.

This is compounded by his behavior constantly being framed as humorous. Much like with Mineta’s perverted actions, characters might superficially go, “No, that’s bad!” but the story never demands any significant development because then we’d lose the “joke” of Bakugo screaming in rage at the slightest inconvenience, threatening to murder someone over nothing, constantly belittling everyone around him in a “funny” manner, etc. When fans talk about development of a manga character as archetypal and extreme as Bakugo, most don’t really want to see significant change to his base personality. Because then that would result in someone who doesn’t look like the “real” Bakugo: someone nicer, more even-tempered, more mature, etc. But for those of us who were never drawn to that personality in the first place, the continued acceptance of his rude, egotistical, and violent behavior is discomforting. The easiest comparison I can draw is between this and Bakugo’s mother slapping him. That slap is meant to be another “joke”—we see it constantly in shonen anime, something "humorous" you shouldn’t take too seriously because haha, it's just an overprotective mother—but many fans do take it seriously, using it as the basis for a whole “Bakugo was abused and this explains his behavior” reading. Well, I take the “joke” of Bakugo’s threats and insults seriously, especially in a story that starts with something like telling Izuku to jump off the roof. In the same way that many fans want others to treat Bakugo’s mother as a serious topic that has had a negative influence on his development, I want the series to take Bakugo’s everyday actions seriously as a negative influence on… well, everyone around him. But it doesn’t. His base personality is grudgingly adored.

The above two points are seen most overtly in Izuku, who never wavers in his respect for Bakugo despite how Bakugo treats him. Not just prior to U.A., but during their training too. Izuku, as the protagonist, is the emotional heart of this tale, so when he talks about how inspiring Bakugo is, it encourages the reader to see his behavior as inspiring too. Rather than, as said, something that needs to change. Izuku's continued friendship with Bakugo, his adoration of him, and his acceptance of the way he's treated has severely warped how the entire story sees Bakugo's actions. After all, if #pure Izuku can see the good in Bakugo, why can't everyone else? He must not be that bad after all.

I could get into detailed analyses of all the above—like how Bakugo was the one comforted after attacking Izuku outside the dorms at night and how the messed up relationship he has with Izuku is upheld as something to nurture; how the remedial courses he had to take were made to be rather silly, thereby undermining their supposed importance to his development; how Bakugo’s kidnapping had nothing to do with his flaws, but much of the fandom uses it as a way to dismiss any appropriate consequences because, “Hasn’t he suffered enough?” etc.—but in the interest of keeping this within a readable length, I’ll leave it at that. The point is that Bakugo has always been privileged when it comes to his behavior, resulting in others either outright praising it, ignoring it, or demanding that he change a miniscule bit, which always keeps him far below the standards of both his peers and the expectations of a hero. Everyone in 1-A must learn to be even better than the good people they already are... Bakugo needs to learn that other people aren't dirt at the bottom of his shoes. It's never been a particularly impressive development when pit against the rest of the class. All of which can make something like an apology feel pretty hollow. Yes, he’s apologized and I say with all seriousness that that’s great! But how does that apology stack up against 300+ chapters of content? As Bakugo’s words highlight, he's been a really awful person up "until now": he was consumed by Izuku being “miles ahead of [him],” he “looked down on [him]” because he didn’t have a quirk, he “didn’t want to recognize that,” he “hated that,” “grew distant,” “tried to beat you down,” “opposed you and tried to show my superiority over you,” and ends it all with, “it probably doesn’t mean anything telling you all this” before finally getting to the “I’m sorry.” This is basically a laundry list of how horrible a person Bakugo has been for the entire series, with an acknowledgement that this apology is coming really, really late. This is the moment where I could START to like Bakugo, depending on how he acts form here on out, but that pivotal moment arrived after six years of content and in the final arc of the story. It’s too late. Bakugo needed this kind of self-reflection and positive action 250+ chapters ago so he could (hopefully) grow into a better person across the story, not at the story's end. What we got instead is 322 chapters of him being a really horrible person, but the story going out of its way to excuse or even praise that behavior the majority of the time.

As a quick comparison to end on, I think what Bakugo needed was what Soo Jin got in True Beauty. You don’t need to have seen the drama to follow along. The tl;dr is that she has a lot of the core qualities of Bakugo: an all-consuming drive to win that was created due to abusive parents with high expectations, resulting in her bullying a peer to a pretty horrific extent. The difference between them is how the story frames their actions. When Soo Jin becomes the bully she loses everything. Rather than succeeding academically, her grades plummet, making it clear that this anxiety and self-doubt (things the fandom keeps insisting Bakugo is struggling with, but that rarely ever show up in the text) is actually impacting her day-to-day life. Her best friend drops her because she’s not going to support her choices. The boy she likes rejects her. She’s eventually forced to start over somewhere new - which importantly separates her from the girl she was bullying - and get some distance from her parents, resulting in the growth needed to become a healthier, happier, good person again. So when Soo Jin apologizes to the girl she hurt, it feels earned. The story continually recognized how horrific her actions were and put her into a place where she either had to change, or continue losing at everything else that was important to her. Bakugo? Bakugo doesn’t lose. Oh, he claims he does because he’s comparing himself to Izuku constantly, but that’s just him thinking in extremes. He still wins academically. Still wins many battles. Still wins at having friends. Still wins by maintaining the prestige of being a U.A. student. Still wins by getting All Might’s attention. Still wins by receiving Izuku’s respect and an agreement to maintain this rivalry that Bakugo is so obsessed with. Bakugo comes out well 99% of the time, he just thinks he's "lost" because he can't stand not being the absolute best.

For me, the story needed to have Bakugo face consequences for his behavior, not receive rewards and/or have others ignore it, and that revelation/apology needed to come way, way sooner. For me the issue is not a specific action that Horikoshi can have Bakugo do in the next chapter and them bam, I like him now. The problem is Bakugo’s entire concept, how he’s received by the entire cast, and his run across this entire series. "Entire" is the key word there. Which is why the “But he’s apologized. What more do you antis want?” reactions don’t sit well. What we wanted is a better written redemption arc across those 300+ chapters, not a single scene that’s meant to have us forget all the other problems inherent in the story. At this point it’s a far more complicated situation than, “Bakugo just needs to do X, Y, and Z and then we’re golden.” At the end of the day, Horikoshi failed to make me like him as a person and I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to change Bakugo enough to make him likable to me. Bakugo was never the sort of character I’d be inclined towards without a serious, nuanced redemption arc, but sadly, a core, crucial part of that redemption arc took six years to arrive. At this point there’s no way to change the problems in Bakugo’s writing for that huge chunk of the series and not enough time left in the series, it seems, to do the work we should have seen across the entire run. Honestly, idk if the Bakugo we'll get going forward is someone I can just dislike as opposed to being really uncomfortable with, but my money is on there being too little story left and too much investment in upholding Bakugo's base personality for that to happen. I could absolutely be proven wrong! But I think the problems are structural and needed to be better dealt with from page one, not hastily patched over in the final hour.