#*lord of the rings meta

[spectraling]

"My Lady, you are fair and brave and have much to live for... and many who love you."

So this line, huh.

Prime shipping material beloved by many a Merrywyn shipper. But there's a reason for that!

This line and scene in general reads as romantic tension to some and it's not (necessarily) because of the wish to push some kind of shipping agenda, but because this line is actually not Merry's to say originally, but Faramir's - Éowyn's canon love interest. It's been rewritten to make sense for Merry to say, but it's basically a summation of the conversations she has with Faramir in the Houses of Healing in the books.

The movies kind of just gloss over a lot of Éowyn's arc of healing from despair so her being so defeated comes a little out of left field in this scene. It's left in here because of what the writers are trying to get at. They're trying to emulate her scenes with Faramir in the Houses of Healing where she's overcome with despair and Faramir tries to coax her out of it by telling her how great she is and how much he loves her. Éowyn, bereft of her glorious death in battle and forced to linger on, slowly realizes that life may be bearable after all and that things like love, acknowledgement and agency might be possible for her and preferable to death.

Since they almost completely cut that part from the movies (rip), the only window to put this character development and resolution of Éowyn's arc, albeit brief and kind of backwards, is to have Merry evoke this feeling of "You are an incredible and beloved person, maybe life isn't so bad after all, maybe it's possible to love and be loved".

But he's also tying it to his own feeling of hopelessness, of being caged in his own body and his desire to be one of those mighty warriors, to do great deeds so that he can make a difference in a world that has long forgotten him, something that Éowyn herself has expressed and relates strongly to. This is the second point of this scene: to let the audience in on Merry's POV. It's almost completely missing in these particular parts of the movies that originally were all about Merry's own arc of overcoming despair and loneliness. They're both getting a tiny little sliver of what their book selves are going through at various points.

Anyway, so now you've kind of... Taken the romantic aspect of her relationship with Faramir and merged it with the woes Merry (and herself) goes through and you have. Well. Created some very compelling comradery, but also misplaced romantic tension between these two.

Because it's not one-sided. Éowyn responds to this. She is deeply moved. Her face grows soft, teary, almost reverent at Merry's words.

A horn blows suddenly to rouse the riders and she's not even phased, she's too caught up in this feeling that Merry stirred in her. "Then the heart of Éowyn changed", etc. etc., because this is mirroring that change which opens up her heart to be able to fall in love with Faramir, but now she's looking at Merry instead. A lot of people like to focus on Merry's all but love confession (including myself I guess by bringing it up), but have you seen the way this woman looks at this hobbit. Whatever is going on here, it is reciprocated. Most ardently.

I cannot explain the direction choice to have Merry blush and look away after uttering the words "...and there are many who love you", however. He's projecting so hard he might as well have flung himself into the sun that weirdly happens to be out and shining brightly. That hobbit was on the cusp of saying "and I love you", but chickened out at the last second. It makes sense though, it's the original conclusion of the statement, but for obvious reasons Merry can't say that and now he's just looking like he's afraid he's said too much.

This is why that scene is responsible for a Merrywyn shipper or two. And it's just. So funny. Incredible. The writers (and a lot of the audience) didn't even realize that they chose violence or that anyone would think twice about the implications. Merry, being a hobbit, is not a threat to the natural order of things I suppose, and so it's fine to transfer this expression of romantic love onto him, which is quite telling in and of itself.

[dailyadventureprompts]

So I was introducing a new group to d&d today (went fantastically thanks for asking) and one of the players who has no real backgorund in the hobby asked me if there was a pop-culture reference point for warlocks. It took me a second to think of something but then I had a god damn lightbulb go off:

Frodo Baggins Is a warlock, Think about it: 

Is inexorably tied to a powerful, unknowable entity who would lend him power and use him as a pawn

This bond is represented by a magical object of inexplicable origin which grants him abilities that trifle in compare to his mighty allies but come in useful in a pinch.

Frodo being the ringbearer IS his pact, promising to take on the corruptive weight that would destroy anyone else if given the chance.

As his connection to the ring grows he unlocks new abilities, needing to eat and sleep less as he’s stretched thin like Bilbo and Gollum before him... granted the ability to see ghosts and other things of the hidden world, eventually (depending on how you interpret the source material) even allowing him to cast a curse on Gollum that results in his inevitable death, in effect: “If you touch me again you’ll be cast into the fire”..... which is exactly what happens.

Likewise, as Sauron’s influence over him grows, Frodo is constantly tempted to perform actions that would aid the dark lord in his ascension: namely allowing his quest to end and letting the ring fall back into Sauron’s hands.

I’m actually going to make it my default touchstone for explaining warlocks from now on because it works so well. 

[balanceoflightanddark]

"Nonetheless, ease and peace had left this people still curiously tough. They were, if it came to it, difficult to daunt or to kill; and they were, perhaps, so unwearyingly fond of good things not least because they could, when put to it, do without them, and could survive rough handling by grief, foe, or weather in a way that astonished those who did not know them well and looked no further than their bellies and their well-fed faces. Though slow to quarrel, and for sport killing nothing that lived, they were doughty at bay, and at need could still handle arms. They shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark. Not only with bows and arrows. If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beasts knew well."

-J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring, Prologue 1. Concerning Hobbits pgs. 5-6

This paragraph fascinates me for a few reasons. Often in fiction, a long period of peace is often used for explaining why people are so slow to react to a rising threat. That prolonged prosperity dulled the senses and breeds complacency. Indeed, Frodo himself does express some exasperation and almost wishes for a dragon or some evil force to invade the Shire to shake the Hobbits out of their complacency.

Which to some level is true here. It's a known fact that Hobbits like to keep out of the affairs of the "big people". Yet at the same time, even if they want to keep themselves isolated, it doesn't mean the world won't march into the Farthings regardless of what they want. After all, there wasn't a whole lot stopping the Nazgul or Saruman from entering their borders.

Yet at the same time, the paragraph does illustrate that just because Hobbits have grown accustomed to peace, doesn't mean they're pushovers. Consider Bandobras "Bullroarer" Took and the Battle of the Green Fields. When a goblin warband led by Golfimbel descended from the Misty Mountains and broke through the Dunedain's encirclement to invade the Shire, Bullroarer charged straight at the goblin ranks. He then proceeded to knock Golfimbel's head off and shatter the morale of the warband.

The story was repeated in the Battle of Bywater when Saruman decided to set up a criminal ring in the Shire after his defeat at the hands of the Ents. Long story short, once Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin returned, the Hobbits proceeded to raise up a sizeable force and effectively kicked Saruman out of the Shire. Mind you, Saruman used to be the greatest wizard in Middle-Earth, and the Hobbits led to his final defeat. That's two accounts of invasions of the Shire going badly for the invaders.

And that's not even getting into the adventures that Bilbo, Frodo, and his friends got into during the events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings respectively. Bilbo was able to save the asses of Thorin's Company multiple times, discovered Smaug's weakpoint and indirectly relayed that to Bard via the Thrush, and risked life and limb to forestall a battle between the Dwarves, Men, and Elves till Bolg showed up. Frodo and Sam were ultimately able to destroy the One Ring, while Merry and Pippin were able to rouse the Ents into attacking Isengard. That's not even counting Merry being partially responsible for the death of the infamous Witch King.

So even though the Hobbits were accustomed to peace, they weren't complacent enough to be pushovers when presented with a threat. Personally, I think part of the reason this is so is because the Hobbits never forgot the basic necessities of a good life: a comfortable home, friends, family, and basically everything needed to live simply. They never indulged too much in luxury to become lax like Smaug, nor constantly scheming to take more power like Sauron or Saruman. They were happy with living simple on the farm.

It turns out, that's what gave them their edge. They were down to earth, so they had a good sense of morality thanks to living humble lives. Safeguarding their farms from wild animals meant that some Hobbits could recognize a threat when they realized it. And their sense of community and friendship got them through some of their hardest trials, like when Frodo almost succumbed to the Ring and Sam never gave up on him. Their sense of community and toughing it out through the hardest times such as during the Long Winter when Gandalf began to really warm up to the Hobbits, seeing the value and courage in them.

So while they're not the flashiest or most "badass" of Middle-Earth's free peoples, the Hobbits are some of the hardiest and "purest" races. And how ironically, peace never dulled their senses but served to toughen them up for the dark times ahead.

[msilverstar]

Númenor Margaritaville

xkcd 2023-10-05

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

given that, per your last ask, you're familiar with the lord of the rings, do you have *heretical opinions* on it?

Opinions thus far are in here.

[marta-bee]

I'm fascinated by this.

First, thank you thank you THANK YOU for talking seriously but generously about book!Denethor and book!Faramir's relationship in a way that doesn't treat him like an outright villain. I'm a huge Denethor fan (in a way that hopefully revels in his moral complexity/complicity rather than whitewashing it, because where's the fun otherwise?), and we really need more of that in fandom.

I'm not sure I'd call Faramir cruel, but he's definitely living in an imperfect world where he probably understands he can't save everyone, even as he's probably better able to do that than Boromir just because he's working with a much smaller group. But he's harsh when he's questioning Gollum. He's not even overly quick to reassure Frodo and Sam that they're safe and he believes them, after the drumhead trial-type interrogation before they all decamp to Henneth Annun. And he takes part in several really bloody battles and he's still prepared to lead men into almost certain defeat to defend the various outposts around Minas Tirith. I see him making lots of hard decisions in the books.

(It's been years since I've actually reread the books, and it's also late so if I'm misremember or misrepresenting anything, please take it as a good-faith misremembering.)

But I do think --fascinatingly-- he sees an even bigger picture than Denethor does. That's the tragedy of Denethor, that he sees the whole struggle in terms of Gondor vs. Mordor. I was going to say book!Faramir isn't this overly moralistic person, it's more that he's concerned with the fate of everyone, coupled with having the wisdom to see what his father would prefer he'd do wouldn't actually work. I'm thinking of the temptation to bring the Ring back to Minas Tirith here especially. If he thought it would actually bring the goal he's working for, I'm not sure he wouldn't have done it.

But he's wise enough to know it would destroy the Gondor he loves, and broad-thinking enough to know saving Gondor isn't enough. And maybe that is goodness in the Arda-verse or close to it: not some idealistic clinging to principle totally divorced from the practical consequences of how you act, but thinking more universally and seeing more clearly.

Or put another way:

I don't know. It's a fascinating thought, and one I'll probably be turning over in my mind for the next few days.

book!denethor and faramir are like

"i need you to make the hard decisions now that your brother is gone, because you are the one that will be my heir. i need you to weigh the good of many and the good of few. and i need you to do it independently for when i am gone as well."

and

"i refuse to be anything but gentle. i refuse to let the concept of a greater good justify cruelty. i love you. and im sorry to be a disappointment."

[no-0ne-0f-consequence]

[sauronism]

celebrimbor pointing out the imperfection in sauron's fabricated reality, as both of them match in skills as a creator. sauron can craft the most appealing illusion in the entire world, but celebrimbor will always sees right through the deception, due to sauron's need for order. the reality he crafted is perfect. too perfect. nothing in this world is perfect. the patterns of the mouse, and the candle is the flaw within his works. celebrimbor merely critiques it.

[naruthandir]

Hold on, I'm having Elrond thoughts right now. He looked at the mistakes of his ancestors and said "Nope. Not doing that again." When he sends Aragorn on the quest to destroy the ring he doesn't do it to get rid of him, like Thingol did with Beren. He does it because he knows love is powerful and he wants him to succeed. When he builds a secret kingdom, he makes sure to make it warm and welcoming for weary travelers, instead of keeping it hidden for everyone but a few select individuals. When the fellowship gets together, he tells them to swear no oaths. He's a symbol of the reconciliation between peoples: He has blood from the Maiar and blood from the Edain, he was raised by Feanorians, he is married to a lady born from the love of a Noldo and a Sinda. He keeps a pet hobbit around his house and takes him with him when he leaves Middle Earth. His father is a wandering star that shines for all, and when people need help they go to Elrond, because they know Elrond can help. So yeah, those are the Elrond thoughts I'm having.

[newtsoftheworldunite]

Gimli: that would be hot.

All the members of the fellowship over 5’5”: *deep exhausted sigh*

Laughing… Gimli thought he didn’t have a message from Galadriel when everyone else did and was upsetti about it and Legolas [just got his death foretold by Galadriel 5 seconds ago] is just like. Mate. What then. Would you have her speak openly to you of your death? And Gimli is like. yEAh.

[from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras]

Someone asked me to expand a little on a topic that was buried down in a big chain of reblogs, so I'm doing that here--it's about the use of the archaic "thee", "thou", "thy", etc. in LOTR and what it tells you about characters’ feelings for one another. (I am NOT an expert on this, so it's just what I've picked up over time!)

Like many (most?) modern English speakers, I grew up thinking of those old forms of 2nd person address as being extra formal. I think that's because my main exposure to them was in the Bible ("thou shall not...") and why wouldn't god, speaking as the ultimate authority, be using the most formal, official voice? But it turns out that for a huge chunk of the history of the English language, "thee," "thou," and "thy" were actually the informal/casual alternatives to the formal "you", “your”, “yours”. Like tú v. usted in Spanish!

With that in mind, Tolkien was very intentional about when he peppered in a "thee" or a "thou" in his dialogue. It only happens a handful of times. Most of those are when a jerk is trying to make clear that someone else is beneath them by treating them informally. Denethor "thou"s Gandalf when he’s pissed at him. The Witch King calls Éowyn "thee" to cut her down verbally before he cuts her down physically. And the Mouth of Sauron calls Aragorn and Gandalf "thou" as a way to show them that he has the upper hand. (Big oops by all 3 of these guys!)

The other times are the opposite--it's when someone starts to use the informal/casual form as a way to show their feeling of affection for someone else. Galadriel goes with the formal "you" all through the company's days in Lórien, but by the time they leave she has really taken them to heart. So when she sends them a message via Gandalf early in the Two Towers, she uses "thee" and "thou" in her words to Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli because now they're valued friends and allies. And--this is the big one, folks, that was already alluded to in my previous post--Éowyn starts aggressively "thou"ing Aragorn when she is begging him to take her along as he prepares to ride out of Dunharrow. She is very intentionally trying to communicate her feelings to him in her choice of pronoun--an "I wouldn't be calling you "thee" if I didn't love you" kind of thing. And he is just as intentionally using "you" in every single one of his responses in order to gently establish a boundary with her without having to state outright that he doesn't reciprocate her feelings. It's not until much later when her engagement to Faramir is announced that Aragorn finally busts out "I have wished thee joy ever since I first saw thee". Because now it is safe to acknowledge a relationship of closeness and familiarity with her without the risk that it will be misinterpreted. He absolutely wants to have that close, familiar relationship, but he saved it for when he knew she could accept it on his terms without getting hurt.

So, you know, like all things language-based...Tolkien made very purposeful decisions in his word choices down to a bonkers level of detail. I didn’t know about this pronoun thing until I was a whole ass adult, but that’s the joy of dealing with Tolkien. I still discover new things like this almost every time I re-read.

[torchwood-99]

I just...I just...Eowyn slew the Witch King of Angmar.

Eowyn married Faramir.

Faramir was made Prince of Ithilien. One of his duties was rehabilitating Minas Morgul.

Minas Morgul which was once ruled by the bloody Witch King of Angmar.

There's just too many thoughts there. Like, was Aragorn thinking, Eowyn did a bloody good job destroying the Witch King, let's see her get rid of the remains of his evil.

Eowyn riding into Minas Morgul, knowing that the monster who ruled there had died at her hands. The land itself, the remnants of the Witch King and the life that is choked by it, responding to her presence, the Maiden of the Shield Arm. Eowyn's wounds affected by riding into the land where the Witch King's evil still lingered. Eowyn fighting to see the land torn down and rebuilt, healing herself by healing the city.

Eowyn's endgame, her married life, fighting to reclaim the land from the hands of the monster who killed her uncle, but couldn't kill her.

[glorfindel-of-imladris]

(tw: death, gore, horror)

I love how downright creepy Sauron is.

He's your neighbourhood psychopathic genius, a skilled sorcerer whose allegiance was realigned once (to his true alignment imo) and then never since waivered.

Unlike Morgoth, who was more straightforward in his execution, Sauron's style is insidious, and in a sense more horrific for how slow and personal his tactics can be. His temper is such that he can play the long game, even play at being weak in order to earn trust or make his enemies complacent, and then next thing you know he has an old friend's corpse up as a war banner, or he has sunk a once great island down the Sea.

He bred the Orcs. Tolkien played with different version of the origin of Orcs, but what I like best is the version where they were corrupted Men, maybe even Elves, and although they were Melkor's idea, it was Sauron who had the ability, patience and tenacity to make the idea come to fruition.

He built cults. Do you know what cults are like? How they draw people in, what they make people believe, what they get people to do? From an outsider looking in it must have looked truly bizarre, but Sauron was able to turn a powerful nation against the Valar and painted Morgoth as the true god. Eru Ilúvatar was denied as a false god, and the Valar made to be liars. There were blood sacrifices, human sacrifices—all for a religion Sauron invented, but was so successful that, once Númenor was gone, Sauron brought the cult with him to Middle-earth.

He was called The Necromancer. What made him garner the title? Who gave it to him, and what had they seen? Surely the Nazgûl were not the first of their kind, not when the Nine were already so well-made. What manner of experimentation had Sauron done in order to make them, and what did the "failures" look like? What knowledge did he use to corrupt and circumvent the Gift of Ilúvatar, which gave Men free will and death, allowing their spirits to transcend Arda? And yet the Nazgûl were unable to die, and as wraiths they also lost their free will, bound to Sauron and the call of the Ring.

He corrupted kings. He corrupted his own kind. Curumo could not have been the only one, and we know Curumo was a powerful Maia in his own right, the leader of the Istari. Sauron played mind games with the best of people, and won. His ability to seduce even the most powerful beings and get them in his service was unparalleled.

Now imagine being a native of Mordor and witnessing the poisoning of the lands. And then an age later, imagine being from one of the villages around Rhovanion and experiencing the slow haunting of Amon Lanc. At least the Eldar could see Sauron and his agents; none of the Men can do so. What defense did the common Man have against such insidious evil? There must only have been odd sensations, a dread settling in, dreams that lure them in before turning into nightmares.

[a-queer-little-wombat]

As I recall, the secret tunnel in the Lonely Mountain in The Hobbit is canonically all smooth ramp.

Tho it had better have some good flat spots for wheelchair safety, so nobody ends up rolling the whole way down uncontrollably.

It also occurs to me how odd it is that they never invented glasses or telescopes? I'm imagining dwarves carving them out of gemstone slices, for example.

after reading tons of hobbit fanfiction, i have opinions about dwarven cities underground.

first- wheelchairs should exist. are you telling me a race of warriors engineers never thought to put wheels on a chair for their wounded veterans.

second - everything should be wheelchair accessible. if your proud wounded warriors can't get to a place in the mountain, someone should get kicked out of the architect guild.

also see: dwarves would be experts in prosthetic limbs, they would make works of art covered in jewels.

sometimes, adding diversity in fiction is less "we should add representation" and more "it would make bloody sense".

[camille-lachenille]

I was thinking about how, in fanfictions and in the fandom in general, Elrond is often depicted as a pure Noldorin lord, if not a die hard Fëanorian. And while I do enjoy Fëanorian!Elrond, the more I think about it the more I am convinced Elrond is not the fëanorian one of the twins. Elros is. Elros who adopted seven eight pointed stars as the heraldic device of his whole dynasty, a symbol still used 6000 years after his death. Elros who had Quenya be the official language of Númenor. Elros who decided to leave Arda for an unknown fate after his death; not Everlasting Darkness but not the rebirth in the bliss of Valinor either. He choose to go to a place Elves aren’t supposed to go, just like Fëanor and his sons went back to Beleriand. Elros, the mortal man, who decided to forge his own path in the world.

And I am not saying Elrond didn’t, because Eru knows how much strength, patience and stubbornness Elrond must have to become who he is in LotR. But when I first re-read LotR after reading the Silm, he did not strike me as Fëanorian at all (except for the no oath swearing rule that seems to apply in Rvendell). In fact, Elrond, and all three of his children, are defined by being half-Elven. Elrond is so much at the same time they had to creat a whole new category for him. He is described as kind as summer in The Hobbit, but also old and wise, and his friendly banter with Bilbo in FotR show he is also merry and full of humour. Elrond is both Elf and Man despite his immortality, and this is made quite clear in the text.

But. If I had to link him to an Elven clan, I’d say Elrond is more Sinda than Noldor, and even that is up to debate. Rivendell, this enchanting valley hidden from evil thanks to his power, is like a kinder version of Doriath. Yet, the name of Last Homely House and Elrond’s boundless hospitality make me think of Sirion: Rivendell is a place where lost souls can find s home, where multiple cultures live along each other in friendship and peace.

In FotR, Elrond introduces himself as the son of Eärendil and Elwing, claiming both his lineages instead of giving only his father’s name as is tradition amongst the Elves. It may be a political move, or it may be a genuine wish to claim his duality, his otherness, or even both at the same time. But from what is shown of Elrond in LotR, he seems to lean heavily in the symbols and heritage from the Sindar side of his family, rather than the Noldor one. I already gave the comparison with Doriath, but it seems history repeats itself as Arwen, said to be Lúthien reborn, chooses a mortal life. Yet Elrond doesn’t make the same mistake as Thingol by locking his daughter in a tower and sending her suitor to a deathly quest. Yes, he asks Aragorn to first reclaim the throne of Gondor before marrying Arwen, but this isn’t a whim on his part or an impossible challenge. Aragorn becoming king means that Middle-Earth is free from the shadow if Sauron and Arwen will live in peace and happiness. Which sounds like a reasonable wish for a parent to me.

Anyways, I went on a tangent, what strikes me with Elrond is his multiple identity. Elrond certainly has habits or traits coming from his upbringing amongst the Fëanorians, and he loved Maglor despite everything. The fact he is a skilled Minstrel shows he did learn and cultivate skills taught by a Fëanorion, that he is not rejecting them. There is a passage at the end of RotK, in the Grey Havens chapter, where Elrond is described carrying a silver harp. Is this a last relic from Maglor? Possible.

But while Elros choose the path of mortality and showed clear Noldorin influences in the kingdom he built, Elrond is happy in his undefined zone he lives in. He is an Elf, he is a Man, he is Sinda and Noldo and heir to half a dozen lost cultures and two crowns. He is the warrior and the healer, the only one of his kind in Middle-Earth. And that is why I will never tire of this character and I love so much fanworks depicting him as nuanced and multiple yet always recognisable as Elrond.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

do you mayhaps have any heresy on Tolkien? whether its about silmarillion or hobbit, im so in to hear what you have to say

There's some buried in here.

I'm not sure I have any grand heresy. It's been too many years since I read the Silmarillion + the Lord of the Rings itself, and there are people who know the text very very well, and I don't think I disagree much with fandom or the author.

It's a great universe, with great stories inside of it, and I really do like all of the characters we come across.