#''you don't know me outside the act and that brings me comfort'' vs ''you know the more human side of me and that terrifies me''

[nsfandomdump]

The contrast between Kaito's dynamics with Shinichi and Hakuba respectively is so important to me you don't understand

Shinichi/Conan doesn't know who KID is under the mask. I doubt he even knows who Kaito Kuroba is outside of him being Toichi Kuroba's son and maybe some childhood interactions. To him, KID is just a criminal, more honor-bound and considerably less deadly compared to the ones he usually catches, but still a criminal at the end of the day. But maybe the thought that Shinichi doesn't know Kaito Kuroba (that even if he drops the KID act, if he starts to act more like his civilian persona around him, he wouldn't know any better), gives him a false sense of security. Maybe it makes him feel more free to be careless around him.

(Deep down, however, he knows he's given out enough that if Shinichi ever does meet Kaito Kuroba, his secret identity would disintegrate almost immediately.

Sometimes he thinks that might not be so bad.)

Hakuba, meanwhile, does know who KID is under the mask. He sees his civilian self almost everyday in class. He's seen him as the prankster magician who annoys the rest of the class with his antics. He knows he's childhood friends with the daughter of the inspector in charge of putting him behind bars. Hakuba knows him as Kaito Kuroba. But he also knows him as KID. Hakuba, while he doesn't have evidence, already knows his secret identity. And that is exactly what makes him a threat. Which is why he can't let his guard down around him. The least he can give himself is plausible deniability and if he slips up in his act, either as KID or as Kaito, that plausible deniability would be gone.

(Deep down, though, he recognizes how Hakuba is still so civil with him despite it all, that, even with his determination to capture him, Hakuba still cares about him as a fellow classmate (as a friend).

And if that makes him slip up sometimes, well, who could say?)

[ronearoundblindly]

If you decide to do who would Wednesdays here's a prompt, if not you can leave it or use it randomly:

Who would be perfectly polite, cause chaos or tell off your boss/ colleague you hate at your companies Christmas party?

Yes, I made the graphic special for the holiday. It's adorable. Sue me.

LET'S GET READY TO CRUMBLE!!!

Warnings: slight spice and one mention of a sex act...

Perfectly Polite:

Andy Barber, Ari Levinson, Jimmy Dobyne, Steve Rogers, James Mace

These boys are all straight shooters for holiday party behavior. Show up. Be smiling and kind. Listen. Make you look good. None of them have a bad time but they aren't necessarily trying to have fun. That's not the point of their presence. All of them know enough about the others from your stories that they can keep up chit chat, ask all the right small talk questions. There's very few coworkers they genuinely like/want to know, but each of these men plays it cool to keep the party moving. They don't want to draw attention to themselves at your expense. Classic boyfriend vibes only.

Agents of Chaos:

Jake Jensen, Johnny Storm, Lloyd Hansen, and Ransom Drysdale

Jake and Johnny join you at these stupid parties to have fun. They love to be goofy and try all the foods and get the juicy gossip out of your tipsy coworkers. If there are kids at the party, Jake 100% gets distracted by what games they're playing on their iPads and phones. Johnny is all over that karaoke machine.

Lloyd steals several small things off people's desks, cops a bunch of feels of your ass and chest juuuuust before someone's looking, and brings you too many drinks. He's gunning for a blowjob in the car BEFORE you two even drive out of the parking lot. Ransom drinks a bit much, loudly praises how great you look in the outfit he picked out, and also loudly critiques the appearance of your coworkers.

Intense Protectors:

*Andy, *Lloyd, Curtis Everett, and Bucky Barnes

Are you surprised the lawyer would stick around to argue? Andy will be perfectly polite until pushed too far. He can only handle so many back-handed compliments and passive aggressive jokes before he snaps into protector mode. Other Polites (Ari, Jimmy, Steve, and Mace) are more inclined to ignore this behavior or simply leave if it begins to sour your good time. Andy will go for the throat, however, if someone tries to joke or critique at your expense.

Similarly, Lloyd may not give a shit about your coworkers overall, but he will not tolerate embarrassment-by-proxy. No one speaks to you disrespectfully except him.

Curtis doesn't do mingling well; he's more the bodyguard/bouncer type at parties. I don't imagine Curtis being very comfortable drunk around strangers, so unless you hang out with a lot of coworkers outside the office, he's stone-cold sober and broody to boot. He is (aside from Lloyd actually snapping) the most likely to make a scene with your bad boss. Curtis is more incline to punch someone right in the moment whereas Lloyd will plot to take care of that fucker in private...so he can prolong the enjoyment.

Bucky will make a very small effort with people you barely know (vs. be extra sure to know people you like), but if there's someone you do not like or get along with or has been taking advantage of your work ethic, he is going to give them a piece of his mind.

Thank you for asking, and Happy Holidays!

[Main Masterlist; Who Would... Masterlist; Ko-Fi]

@supraveng @1950schick @patzammit @whiskeytangofoxtrot555

@yiiiikesmish @ashesofblackroses @jaqui-has-a-conspiracy-theory

@brandycranby @buckysprettybaby @ellethespaceunicorn

@late-to-the-party-81 @bigtreefest @mistressmkay @astheskycries

@rogersbarber @blogbog710 @yenzys-lucky-charm

[silviakundera]

The Spirealm episode 5 -7 reaction (Let's call this episode 4 now per the new 38 episodes version)

fair warning: in these episode reactions I'm not gonna pretend I haven't read the novel. in fact, I purposely finished the novel before viewing, to get The Full Experience. thus novel spoilers, including twist end, included.

[1] [2] [3-4]

DON'T LEAN ON THE BANISTER ASDFGHJK

Ruan Baijie saving his boyfriend's ass yet again, must be Tuesday.

Then first key!!!! I wanna see the key!!!!!!!!

The survivors: wow, ok, Baijie really loves u

"Are you leaving so soon and reluctant to leave me?" // "No, it's not that," he lies

The suspicious survivors just couldn't resist trying to steal the door note and now no one has the key but the monster NICE GOING 😒

ahh and then the reveal that ofc Ruan Baijie figured out the taboos long before. He saves those who are worthy (aka his new partner).

wow Ruan Baijie is pretty. gifs don't do him justice.

Death match vs the bad hair day from The Ring.

Ep6

The whole scene in the opening of ep 6 is terribly cute. Ruan Baijie exposed as a drama sprite who was faking his injury, but Lin Quishi just accepts this in good humor as he's told this was just to "bring us closer" and for fun. Another round of, you're really picking me? but why?

He really does the, 'come closer' move to make your crush get up close so you can create a sense of intimacy with hushed voices smh

"Because there is light in you."

oh, did you give me this expensive looking necklace because you want me to join your gang?

no, because you are you.

..... misses the very gay pass completely.

(tbh I feel as if the actor is playing it like his character IS sensing the romantic undertones sometimes but doesn't know how to respond/not ready to process it and so represses & pushes it out of his mind and to the side)

Ep 7

They solved the case. Ruan Baijie gives him back the key again, "Still yours." They exchange a romantic look before he steps over.

Our protagonist thinks he's back in reality and only 15 minutes have passed. But of course that's not true: whether he entered the game time A, B, C, or it's the 12th Door theory... he's still in-play.

A roommate?? This must be the Wei what's his face, his One Friend I recall from the novel. With the girlfriend.

Injuries from the door lingering "outside".

Chestnut won't let him hug! (The clue in the novel that this is still within the door. Now, is this a new phenom or was it already Like That in ep 1? 🤔 Remains ambiguous.)

Wait, in this drama the One Friend has heard of Spirealm?! And it's eviiiill reputation. Everyone who plays it "goes insane and commits suicide". Lin Quishi acts like he hasn't already been warned that players die from the game.

Ah, created by a chinese designer who wanted to make a "comprehensive spirit world". The story goes, after he made it he added all the violent elements to the version he sold, to make it a bloody survival game.

'Can't control when you enter the door, can't get rid of it, Men Can Conquer Heaven'.

Bro goes to sleep and startles awake cause Ruan Nanzhu fka Baijie is pulling an Edward Cullen by his bedside. The more intense looking Nanzhu asks him to come along. Naturally, our boy stumbles along and meets!!! Cheng Qianli!!!!!!! 😄😄😄😄 Who is driving, like the scene in the novel. IM SO HAPPY.

Headquarters!!!!! The group!#####!!!! I'm hyped to see them all live & in color.

Emphasized again that once you enter the game, you must complete all 12 doors to get rid of the mental control of the game. ~Mind control~

(because the censors won't allow it to be explicitly supernatural)

(which doesn't mean the writer didn't intend to get around this barrier by using subtext & inferences that novel readers would understand 🤔🤔)

The clue for his next door freaks out the whole house. But then he meets cranky Cheng Yixie!!!!

He's settling in but the moment he glimpses Nanzhu's returned BUT INJURED *gasp* Must scurry down for hurt/comfort UST.

Love how absolutely unnecessary this hand-holding is. Light piano background to set the romantic mood.

A gurgling stomach growl from Ruan Nanxhu & Lin Quishi takes the initiative to stand up and make himself at home to cook for the man who's obviously being positioned as his love interest. (Like in The Untamed & Word of Honor, we're not being terribly subtle here.)

This is the 3rd time we've seen an instinctive caretaking gesture from him towards Nanzhu and the last moment as we fade out is the "boss man" looking down at his newly bestowed bandage and obviously GOING THRU IT. He's making this sigh and curling his fingers and everything.

side note: Lin Quishi is getting flashes of himself trapped under rubble. This is the second time we see them. Are they flash backs? Of a past event he survived, giving him baggage to carry? OR are we circling back again to my alternate, alternate theory that an evil VR game is part of the illusion and this IS the supernatural Doors from the novel that terminal people can get a chance to enter, to prolong or possibly prevent your death? (if so, then Ruan Nanzhu is still indeed the 12th door god. and Lin Quishi must decide to remain in the fantasy or exit & return to reality?)

[c-h-pictures]

2, 6, 11, 14, 17, 22, 25, 28, 38, 45, 62, 76

Junfeng and Baizhu :3

OC Relationship ask game

2. Who is the one who fusses the most? Does their S/O mind very much?

Junfeng fusses over Baizhu a lot. Baizhu acts like he's annoyed, but they both know he isn't. Junfeng knows very well when Baizhu is pretending to be annoyed Vs when he actually is.

6. Who would ask the "would you love me if I were a worm?" question? How would their S/O answer?

White Snake would ask it, Junfeng would still love him.

11. Who is clingy?

Bai. Incredibly. It's actually a very useful sign to Junfeng if something is wrong. If Baizhu isn't touching him in some way without good reason, there's something wrong.

14. What is something they argue about constantly? Is it a deep-seated issue or something small?

Baizhu and his insults to the heavens. Very very small, Junfeng's arguments always come with his laughter.

17. Who steals whose clothes? Does their significant other mind?

The coat Baizhu wears when we first meet him and every time after that is not his. It's Junfeng's.

22. What is something - either character - doesn't like about the other?

Baizhu doesn't like that Junfeng still tries to defend some of heaven's actions. He has severe discontent for them, some of which even comes from their treatment of Junfeng.

25. Do they have any pet names for one another?

Baizhu has none for Junfeng.

Junfeng has: Bai (for Baizhu), Xiaobai (for Baizhu), didi (for Baizhu and White Snake), little one (not used very often once they got into a relationship, but when used it is solely for White Snake), Lotus (for White Snake).

28. Do they trust one another? Are comfortable discussing their fears with one another?

They trust each other and Baizhu wants to be comfortable but that comes with accepting things himself first.

38. What would be their ideal evening in?

A variety of snacky bits of food, eaten in their garden under the stars. Baizhu would try to stay awake for the whole evening but end up falling asleep (it's the disability exhaustion TM). Junfeng would pick him up and rest him on their bed, then clean the dishes and join him.

45. What's the worst thing the other can say to one?

Junfeng to Baizhu (not that he'd ever say this): Some people don't deserve saving.

Not only would it go against his stance and oaths as a doctor, but it would also bring back severe trauma from his life.

62. How would outside characters describe their relationship?

Cute, a force to be reckoned with, old married couple.

76. Are they soulmates? Do they believe in that?

Not particularly. They grew together after meeting each other.

[freshinksans]

sorry, this response is a week late, if you don't want to continue this conversation i apologize, feel free to ignore me !! im just very passionate about selfcest (and sanscest specifically) and would like to give the prospective of myself and other folks i either know or have seen.

sorry for the rambley disclaimers incoming, im paranoid and reading comprehension has gone to shit on tumblr. i'd rather try to make my intentions as clear as possible so no bystanders can try and start shit.

mentioning this because i think it's important context, not because i intend to spark discourse: i dont like to label myself as "antiship" due to how broad of an umbrella term of beliefs that covers, and also certain associations with the term, but my views in the whole anti/proship thing lean antiship.

also important context: ive also been a sanscest shipper since 2016-2017 (cant remember specifically when, sorry !!) and have been fairly active as a lurker in the community for a long time.

im putting this under a read-more due to the fact this response is

1. long and rambley (again, sorry !! really into this topic.)

2. gets more into aspects of the whole proship vs antiship debate, specifically discussing antishipper's prospective on selfcest and why some may not label it as incest & proship, and also the reasonings of why they are uncomfortable with incest (and when selfcest doesn't have specific qualities, they dont label it as incest or proship.)

again, this response & any explanations is not meant to cause arguments surrounding shipping discourse, i will simply be explaining an antiship perspective because it's relevant to the topic. this is not meant to be any sort of attack on anybody. i intend to keep the conversation as mature as possible :] im sooo passionate about selfcest as a topic because i find it really interesting, so lets keep it nice in here ^_^ i dont like to argue shipping discourse. peace & love on the planet earth

i do think the vibe you're getting is generally correct, that is the case for alot of people and why they're comfortable with sanscest despite being antiship and being uncomfortable with other selfcest ships.

but i also would like to bring up that alot of people who are antiship or uncomfortable with proship content, both within the utmv community and outside it, dont actually view selfcest itself as inherently proship depending on how you treat it.

i've been seeing this conversation/reasoning alot in the past 2 years.

yes it does have the -cest suffix, it means self incest, but many have said they either don't inherently consider it incest and consider it poorly named OR just don't inherently care about selfcest specifically because 1. selfcest isn't something that can happen in real life the same way sibling incest can and does, and 2. selfcest doesn't inherently have all the qualities that make alot of people uncomfortable with sibling incest (which also ends up tying into number 1.)

what makes alot of people (or atleast myself and some folks i personally know) uncomfortable with incest is a mix of how related they are genetically and also the dynamic that folks who are related are expected to have in society, and how that will impact your view of someone related to you. <- if that makes sense. i mightve explained that poorly OOPS !

if you were to suddenly see a clone or alternate version of yourself, one may not have the same reaction as if you suddenly found out someone standing next to was your sibling or cousin. society tells you how you should act and react to familial relationships like siblings or cousins, but there's not expectation for how to reaction to yourself, even if you are "related."

that removes the whole "dynamic you're expected to have" section, and when it comes to selfcest specifically, i don't like have a good explanation for it but the genetic relatedness just doesn't really inherently bother alot of people when it comes to specifically selfcest? i guess it's more of an exception. like, an attitude of "it's so unrealistic, who cares at this point?" even with ship kids.

anyways, the reason i say "inherently" a lot is because theres still cases where selfcest is considered incest and is considered proship by antishippers, which is why i said earlier "depending on how you treat it."

if one treats selfcest the same way they treat twincest when they ship it, then people will be uncomfortable with that content and consider it proship.

or, if the characters being shipped selfcestuously both happen to be within a canon and in that canon they choose to treat eachother like siblings or similar, then people may consider the shipping of that to be incest, and therefore proship.

i'd also like to bring up another important factor specific to the utmv fandom, and this one is more personal: utmv fandom has normalized selfcest in a way you don't see with many other fandoms that have been around longer. onceler is the only fandom i can think of thats similiar. for me personally, utmv was one of my first ever fandoms, i joined it at a young age and have shipped sanscest since pretty early on.

due to how normalized sanscest is within the fandom, even when i used to be uncomfortable with other selfcest ships (like papcest, for an easy example) ive always been alright with sans x sans content due to how it's always been something normal (to me) in the undertale fandom. i ended up shaping my views about selfcest around the fact that i liked sanscest and was fine with it. i think this is not something im alone with in the utmv fandom; i do think that the explanation of "well sans are kinda like a species" for some people came After people started to shipped them, and then needed some sort of explanation for why they're fine with it. (which, honestly folks do not need an explanation for every little thing but thats an entirely different ramble.)

theres a dozen more explanations i could give you too, such as for some folks selfcest is Just An Exception and/or simply Do Not Care, if you'd be interested, but i think this is getting rather long. SO!

TLDR: Many folks do not inherently consider Selfcest to be inherently proship or incestuous due to how Selfcest isn't something that can happen in real life the same way sibling incest can and does, and due to the lack of expectations about how one is to treat a clone or alternate self. Sanscest is also quite normalized in the UTMV fandom, and many fans who are antiship have shaped their opinions Around shipping it and became okay with it after UTMV fandom, especially folks who joined the fandom younger.

again, i apologize for how messy this is. i'm not very good at organizing my thoughts, but this is a topic im VERY passionate about (i became a huge fan of selfcest Due to UTMV) and i was really excited to respond to this! if you're interested in anything more, i'd love to talk about it more :]

I thought all Sanscest shippers were just. Proship by proxy. But I saw an antishipping account on Discord today that ships AfterDeath and asked people who hate the ship to DNI. So now I'm just confused. Are these just proshippers who don't want to admit they have exceptions/are actually proship or something? Or do some people just ignore the 'cest' written on the tin? Lol.

Please reblog for a larger pool. ^^

Also, note: No shipping discourse anywhere on this post please. Keep that to yourselves. I'm just curious what people think about the SHIPS, not each other. Be nice.

[stormblessed95]

2015 BTS LIVE HYYH ON STAGE DVD Pt. 2

This package was released on 160223 and covers the concerts performances filmed from 151127 to 160323. This DVD package covers just the Seoul concerts I believe, which were the first 3, 151127 - 151129. There are 3 DVDs included in this package. The first 2 DVDs cover the actual concert in full from 151129, the last day in Seoul. The other 5 performances were in Japan. The 2nd DVD also includes a talk about ‘花樣年華’ (HYYH) and the full VCR Interview. You can find my post over that here. Disc 3 includes Prologue and VCR making film, the Rehersals and practice making films and the concert making film. (346 minutes in total from all 3 DVDs.) And Disc 3 is what I'll cover in this post. Reminder again that this is simply me bullet point talking about this as I go basically, like I'm reacting to a friend. Lol

Disc 3:

BTS 2015 HYYH On Stage Prologue & VCR Making Film:

(Resolution sucks, but i did find this on YouTube for anyone who hasn't seen it!)

They shot all this in August of 2015 to be ready for the their concert in November. All dressed for winter and dying in the summer heat. Lol

Hobi and Jimin teasing each other and being like, this is how we hang out for real 🤣 Hobi saying he feels awkward when giving compliments to the members, I'm glad he has gotten more comfortable with that over the years! Lol everyone teasing Tae for being bad at arguing logically 😅 Jimin showing off his kendo moves for their fight scenes and everyone giggling. Hobi getting excited about talking informally to Yoongi since it's all acting. 🤣

"While they are shooting with their best, I'm taking a break with my best" i love Jin so much. 2seok cheering Tae on for his solo shoot 🥺 Jin bringing all his dongsaengs cold snacks and drinks because he is the sweetest angel. "I didn't realize we hang out so well when I was in the crowd, now I see how it is from here." I might just quote Jin this whole video! He said BTS authentic and have fun together for real 🥺 and the cutest (albeit directed, but they didn't let go) TaeJin hug when Jin joined the group.

Jimin literally vaulting over taekook to dance with Hobi for their "dancing in the sun" scene, he is the coolest. And This is the oddest scene yet lmfao. Maknaes all bent over onto Joon and the hyungs jumping on top of them. Where were vminkooks heads? In between each other's legs, clearly. 🤣🤣 "hyungs are about to die now" maknaes took their turns jumping on their hyungs too 🤣 IM DYING laughing. LOL the game is called malttukbakgi if you want to look it up, but yeah, clearly zero boundaries 😂

JK saying it's better (temp wise) now that it's night, turns and asks Jimin if the north or south pole is colder. Jimin just says "I don't know, I've never been to either." Lol fair Jimin, fair.

TaeJinKook playing some sort of slapping game. Lmao why is this shooting film so violent so far?? 🤣🤣 Tae trying to cuddle Hope, and Hobi just going "I'm going to make you uncomfortable" and trying to shove him off before giving in. Aggressive affection is how this video is going apparently 🤣 JK handstands on the playground equipment too.

3J teasing outside the rest stop as they talk about filming that day. Jimin hanging off Jhope for cuddles, he really is his baby. He is so cuddly for real. Vminkook in the bed of the truck for filming and Jimin just curls around Jungkook for cuddles 🥺 probably because it was ungodly hour in the middle of the night. I hope he got a nap in! Lol

What was up with the indecision about putting your arm around Jimin during the shooting where yall all stare off at the ocean? Lol the awkwardness of JKs arm going up and almost around Jimin just to totally change course and scratch at his own head instead. 🙈😅

JK being jealous of their stunt man and wishing to do the jumps instead 😅 of course, vs YoonJin watching it happen and going "it's scary." Lol Hobi modeling the truck, I'm sold. Jimin watching YoonKooks staring into the distance scene over the directors shoulder. 94z are so cute, Hobi pretending to fish, and Joon pretending to BE the fish. Lol

Sope taking over the camera to be silly with it filming each other. Everyone just having fun on the beach but covered in mud and sand. Lol they really just be having a good time together. I love that JinMinHope are doing like 80% of our transitions between sets for this video lol.

(Yes, I accidentally posted this instead of saving it to my drafts! Lmfao, so I'll do the last 2 making films in a part 3 I guess! 😭 thanks for your patience! I'm sorry!)

Hope praising Jin for being the best actor and saying Jimin is probably the worst. Lol Jimin said he that his acting isn't bad as long as he doesn't say anything 😅😂 and Jin getting all shy when gold about the compliment. 🥺 Jin also agreeing that the worst actor is Jimin. Aww Jimin saying "our V did great acting" and then praising Jin too 🥺 they are so cute.

Shooting last the bridge videos for concerts. Joonie shoots in an old library and seemed to enjoy it too. He said he wants to go on his day off too. Jin pretends to be a photographer for his video. He is so effortlessly talented and beautiful. Hobi filming while listening to music and saying how he loves the atmosphere, other than his bug attack. Lol Tae shooting as a fashion designer and how he said it was similar to him as a character too since he loves fashion. Yoongi playing basketball for his shooting and saying it feels good to do so. He seemed to have a good time for real too! JK is filming a scene about falling in love at first sight with a girl while he is eating. Lol Jimin's scene was karaoke and he said that he planned to stay and sing seriously after they left lol

[unordinaryquotes]

I think I may have the weirdest AU possible- what if Elaine had taken pity on Johnny Boi and taken him under her wing of sorts? (given her attitude to Sera after everything I don't think it's entirely impossible) Admittedly I had an AU like this a while ago but that involved john claiming to be a midtier instead of a cripple and I'm curious on your take

Let’s crack this nut boys.

So Elaine walks up to John and asks him about his ability

John replies that he’s powerless and Elaine is surprised. She feels bad for his position but before she can say anything some other classmates speak up. Her friends drag her away saying she shouldn’t talk to inferior people.

The next day John is getting harassed by a group of low tiers and gets beat pretty badly. Elaine sees this and comes to his aid. She disperses the group either by using her fighting abilities or authority. She heals him up a bit and takes him to the infirmary. While there, Elaine t alks to Dr Darren about John’s lack of powers and he warns Elaine not to get too close to John. Elaine, being the stubborn brat she is, ignores his warning.

The two become friends in secret because Elaine is too self conscious. The two frequently meet in the infirmary (because John’s always getting hurt while Elaine acts as an aid/pupil for Dr Darren) With the small chars between them, John starts to develop a crush. It’s not too subtle (well unless your name’s Elaine) so most of their grade figures it out. Most of the student body is disgusted that John thinks he has the audacity to have a crush on Elaine. Seraphina and Arlo especially are concerned about this.

When Sera and John are put together for their group project, Sera uses this time to interrogate him (it’s actually harassment but Sera doesn’t know the difference) His life is rough, doing Sera’s share of the work, getting beat up constantly, and he’s just about to break down. But the cute bluenette who talks to him with a shine in her eyes keeps him going. Eventually Sera stops beating around the bush and confronts Elaine on John.

Seraphina: You know that cripple boy in our class?

Elaine:John? Why are you bringing him up?

Seraphina:Isn’t it obvious. He has a huge crush on you. You need to shut that down

Elaine:Huh? I’m sure you’re mistaken. We’re just fri-

Seraphina:Did you just say you’re friends with a loser like that?

Elaine:So what of it? Who I hang out with is none of your business!

Seraphina:It’s definitely my buissness. You’re a respected member of the school! If anyone sees you interacting with trash like that it won’t just bring down you’re reputation. We’ll all lost respect! Even Arlo!

Elaine:Don’t bring him into this!

Seraphina:Thens top hanging out with that cripple. Or maybe you’re perfectly fine with letting Arlo think you’re willing to get with any guy who asks.

Elaine storms off in a flurry tears and locks herself in the only safe space she knows. The infirmary. Coincidentally, John is sitting in the infirmary at this moment. When he sees Elaine in tears he immediately gets up (despite his own injuries) and begins to comfort her. In his mind he vows to hurt whoever made her sad. When he learns it’s Seraphina he lets out an “Oh shit”. He’s strong, no doubt about it, but is Sera stronger? He doesn’t want to see.

Instead he decides to sabotage the project and the two of them end up with F’s. Sera yells at John about it saying he’s making a mockery of the hierarchy. John shoots back that hurting the ones under you isn’t how a hierarchy should be run ( almost like he has experience with it hmmmm)

Later that day Arlo talks to Elaine about her relationship with John.

Elaine:I was already chewed out by Seraphina. Why can’t you guys just let it be.

Arlo:We can’t. If people start thinking the hierarchy’s promoting inter-level relationships then more students will interact and more fights will break out. The weaker ones will be brutalized or taken advantage of and the mid tiers will start getting big heads.

Elaine realizes that her and Arlo could never be because of his current thoughts. She’s and elite tier and he’s a god tier. He’ll probably get with some other powerful girl maybe...Sera. The thought hurts her. Arlo tries to talk more to her but she refuses to hear anything.

Sera and Arlo talk, confused on what to do. Arlo thinks about getting Remi to talk to Elaine but he knows she won’t go for it. Sera meanwhile thinks John might be lying about his level. He has too much confidence and speaks like he has experience. Arlo gets Isen on the job (holding him at fork-point). Yada year ability found yada yada Isen shits his pants.

Sera gets a “good” idea. Why not tell Elaine that John was lying to her. Arlo is actually against this. No point in hurting her any farther. Sera grumbles.

Elaine and John spend more time together. John comforts Elaine while Elaine gives John a shoulder to lean on. As the two continue on to their second year the two of them start getting closer. When Elaine closes her eyes she sees face and she starts having weird fantasies about the two of them. Knowing she can’t talk to anyone about it, she keeps her feeling to herself.

However Remi one day asks how her friendship with John is going. Seeing just how flustered Elaine gets, Remi puts together that she also has a crush on him. She tells this info to Arlo who then tells it Sera. Sera is tired of waiting. Elaine needs to be brought back to reality. So she confronts her one day after school.

Sera tells Elaine that John is actually a God-Tier. Of course Elaine doesn’t believe this at first. Sera’s obviously just trying to get under her skin right? But then the Arlo vs John fight happens. John remembers the vow he made to protect Elaine from anyone who hurts her and Arlo is interested in seeing just how strong John is. The two fight + some Meili and Ventus backup.

Elaine gets called by Arlo to heal him and the two others. Despite not talking too often anymore Elaine still takes the job. She’s shocked at just who could have hurt Arlo. The god tier who she knew she would never have a chance with. The first boy she fell in love. He was now a bloody mess and not telling her anything. Maybe it was because they weren’t as close as they once were? She should fix their relationship. They’re still friends. But then she gets a call from John. And he sounds like a mess. She’s conflicted on what to do but Arlo tells her to go to John’s side.

She arrives at his home and is shocked. John looks just as bad as Arlo. Who could do this to him? Who could hurt him like this? The second boy she fell in love with. A boy she may finally have a chance with. Tears spill from her eyes but she starts her job. He needed healing, both physically and mentally, and she would give it to him. At least, that’s what she thought. As she’s healing him, she notices similar wounds compared to Arlo, Ventus, and Meili. Inside her head Sera’s words ring out. “He’s a god tier. He will always be above you. You are just a toy for him”

Why? Why was this happening? Elaine feels like throwing up. But there’s no way this is true. It can’t be! They’re friends right? He loves her right? Why is God so cruel?! John notices her pain. Still only half healed, he hugs her. She cries harder than she ever has. After a few hours, Elaine convinces John to be taken to the infirmary. Dr Darren (who does not get paid enough) takes care of his wounds and leaves.

The two of them are stuck in a room. What should Elaine say? What should John say? Should they even say anything? Why ruin what they already have? Elaine speaks first.

“You have an ability don’t you?”

John is shocked for a second but understands. He just busted himself by beating up Arlo. Maybe he shouldn’t have gotten too close to Elaine. Maybe he shouldn’t have antagonized Seraphina. But that was all in the past. He admits it. No point in hiding it. Or at least no point in hiding it from her. She’s smart.

Elaine and John talk for what seems like hours. John wants to hide his ability and Elaine understands that.

Elaine:But should we even be talking to each other

John:What do you mean?

Elaine:You’re a god tier and I’m just-just a stupid healer

John:There wasn’t any problems with us when I was a cripple. Why now?

Elaine:Cause I don’t want to lose you to someone else

The two definitely both realize they’re in love. Might as well come out with it. As a new couple Elaine gives him a kiss on the cheek and leaves the infirmary. (Dr Darren was waiting outside the entire time. He got locked out. However he could hear everything. He definitely didn’t cry. Nope. Not one tear. Just something in his eye)

Man that was a lot. Now I want some John x Elaine art. Oh the woes of me

[shallowseeker]

#Prev - LOL thank you! 🥰

I should be more clear about how I envision Ellen, because I do agree with you that she has a long fuse and is pretty cool-headed.

Mary often makes mission-oriented choices: I think Mary's decisions re: British Men of Letters absolutely have potential to drag those old, irrational emotions and wounds to surface surrounding Bill's death. :) So, it really depends on where in the timeline they meet.

I think Ellen and hunting is complicated: It's probably less about John-Bill per se and more about issues of hunting, danger, and trust. Sam and Dean, to some degree, earned their trust with her. Ellen would be naturally suspicious of any hunter, even Mary. (She ran a bar for them, so I sort of see her naturally sizing up and clocking everyone out of habit.) And Ellen would perk up at Mary's caginess. I think Ellen, being less close to Mary, might pick up on her lies more readily. And I still see Ellen being rubbed wrong by the Campbell my-way-or-highway... Ellen hunts, but usually only when shit really hits the fan, and I feel like she tends to be more cautious. Ellen is more reserved in this area, perhaps? Now that I think on it, Ellen's relationship to hunting in general is really complicated, isn't it!

I agree that common ground is possible: Ellen also could be understanding of Mary's losses and trauma, like a good bar therapist! They both lost husbands!

I also agree Ellen bringing up John could be explosive: You're right. Ellen's knowledge of corrupt!John has powder-keg-like potential. I agree with you that Mary might take up for John more than we the audience may be comfortable with! She knew the best of him. (I mean, I think about how shitty Dean was to Lily Sunder, lol.)

If Jo was mentored by Mary... The minute Jo comes into it, IF Jo comes into it, I can see shit goin' down, especially if Mary starts acting as a surrogate father figure. I can see Ellen drawing parallels between the dangerous soldier mindsets of Mary and John if this came to pass! But I do see it needing Jo as catalyst moreso than Ellen taking up for Sam and Dean. Idk why. I just think she's not up in their emotional business a lot of the time. Perhaps, though! Ellen is protective.

I don't think Ellen would come out of the gate with fists swinging. The root of it would be the destabilization of trust, and Mary absolutely lives in a mission-oriented headspace for much if her latter SPN seasons, both with the MOL and Apocalypse World. (I happen to love this about Mary, too. She gets to go cold and, like all our mains, and be a bit of a martry instead of reaching out to loved ones. I'm thinking of the Ramiel mission in particular!)

///

Jo and British MoL? Say it ain't so! As for Jo, she left us when she was remarkably young, so who knows? She said she used hunting to feel close to Bill, and that always stuck with me! I think it's at least possible that she is vulnerable to an organization like the British Men of Letters, doubly so if she got taken under Mary's wing and complimented on her independance and skill. She's not particularly a mission-oriented idealogue, but she is incredibly reckless. She wanted to have purpose and matter, which was an element of her character that was refreshingly disconnected from Sam or Dean. Jo also seems to overestimate herself, like most young ppl. She'd probably think she could handle MOL if they did something she wasn't down with.

Seeing TheWinchesters play out, I'm also struck by how Millie-John remind me a bit (in broad strokes) of Ellen-Jo.

///

Jody vs Mary... Ah, I forgot about the Asa Fox funeral. I'd have to rewatch that. Mary was feeling like a complete outsider in general, wasn't she? With that in mind, I can definitely see her having bitterness at anyone who has easy comradery with Sam and Dean. (This is why Mary clings to Cas a little bit at first and puts all her shit on him. He's a fellow outsider-protector-lone wolf type.)

However, Mary's bitterness seems to culminate in distancing herself, so I wonder if it would come to a head without a catalyst (I suppose that's why my mind pivoted to Jo)! I wonder what other events could force the issue? There are probably plenty!

I'm def not an expert on Jody Mills, as I never really clicked with her character as deeply as others, but maybe someone else can chime in!

This is fun to think about. Very many thanks to you! 🤘☕️🧇🍻

okay you know how mary was like weirdly against jody just bc she was A Woman In Her Sons Lives (she had a sarcastic comment about Jody mothering them....mary babe they were born in the same decade). anyway. with that in mind how do you think mary would react to meeting ellen, her son's actual surrogate mother?

I so love questions like this. My bestest tumblr friends give me excuses to ramble into the quiet of the night. Anyway, there are some wonderful opportunities for tensions between Ellen and Mary, but I'm not convinced the main ones have anything to do with Sam or Dean.

///

1. The old wound of John using Bill as bait. There's potential for Ellen to distrust Mary. At worst, she might displace anger of Bill's death onto Mary. This could manifest as Ellen refusing to go around Mary or being contrarian to the point of undermining Mary's authority, questioning her tactics, and nitpicking her decisions (in the guise of playing Devil's advocate ofc).

This would aggravate and heighten Mary's natural defense mechanism for dealing with fear and insecurity: "my way or highway."

///

2. Training Jo. Jo has some personality characteristics that are very like John: a heritage of hunting but being new to hunting itself and the very nature of hunting to feel close to a father. So, I think this hunting partnership would feel very comfortable for Mary.

When it comes to her own children, Mary wants to protect Sam and Dean from hunting (at least, at first). This is part of why she leans into blaming Cas as "co-protector-surrogate-spouse" in season 12 & why she's so vulnerable to the British Men of Letters' pitch, "a world without monsters."

But with Jo, there's none of that parental baggage. Mary naturally operates in a fatherly way to Jo. To Jo, Mary becomes Samuel. Ergo, you get an unhinged Ellen trying to forbid a Mary-Jo mentorship. Depending on the timeline and how frosty things are with Winchester dynamics, you might also get a frustrated and jealous Sam or Dean (of Jo)!

I'd bet my whole ass that Ellen would not jive with the above two mistakes of Mary's: Ellen naturally gravitated towards Cas's personality and stability, so she'd hold a grudge here, and she's so naturally suspicious of others that she'd hate British MoL. (Jo, on the other hand, could totally get sucked in for the grand sense of purpose, I think.)

///

Mode of hunting: Ellen does hunt, but her whole way of operating is different to Mary.

Ellen likes having a homebase and she likes being a shelter. She's a bit like how older Dean turned out in this regard. (Interesting that one of Dean's dreams was to own a safe harbor/roadhouse/hunting bar.)

Ellen gets very explosive and controlling when it comes to protecting loved ones, and when danger arrives, her first instinct is to yank everyone else out of the fight. Her fears are big and strong, and they come out mean. (It's not that Ellen is scared for herself. She's brave enough to face a bear bare-handed; just don't put her husband/daughter/loves ones in the line of fire)!

Mary, on the other hand, seems more comfortable being more nomadic in general, despite having relatively stable-ish parents + family home growing up (by hunter standards, anyway).

This is a part of Mary that's like Sam. I think having Samuel and Deanna somewhat stabilized her childhood and made this "mode" of operating feel safer for Mary, just as having Dean as caretaker made branching out feel a little safer for Sam (comparatively). At their worst though, like practically everyone in Supernatural, both give away their personhood to missions. That age-old desire to make up for personal failings in life / spare their loved ones / save the world, etc., and so, they become become reckless.

Whereas Dean and Ellen both crave being a little more stationary, or at least tethered to a home, to feel more emotionally secure.

///

Anyway, that's all I thought of tonight!

I might add to this later and revisit some Ellen-Jo arguments! I recently rewatched those seasons, and though I remembered Ellen fondly, she never struck me as particularly motherly to Sam and Dean, outside of the abstract notion of it.

As for Mary, her aloofness to Jody was influenced by her British MoL brainwashing, I believe. Her bitterness was informed by her fresh grief, loss of purpose, feeling iced out, not fitting into current time, and plugging that space with the heroic depersonalization of mission above all else. I'll throw away my personhood to get rid of the monsters, so you can be happy and get the life you deserve. I don't matter (and maybe my happiness is lost to me, anyways).

The bitterness that accompanied it all was so interesting, too.

At some point, she uses the SPN-time-honored phrase, "I'm doing this...for you. (To protect you.)" Mary chooses war and goes soldier-mode. Ellen doesn't seem to dissociate/compartmentalize quite the same way--at least, not that we see on screen?

[bigbadwolf-ish]

Looking at some blogs I saw the rewarding of good behaviour being reinforced over the punishment of misbehaviour and I tried to also apply that to the terms that I use with her. Instead of calling her a wh**e, maybe I could try and use positive terms? And if that would be recommended, what terms do you think would work? I saw princess being used, but I don't think that would suit us. I doubt she would identify with it. I want to discuss this with her because I believe communication is key (5/6)

This was a six-part ask. I guess I accidentally deleted the sixth part, but it's been sitting in my inbox for quite a while so I'm going to try to give it it's day in court... Here are the five parts I do have:

Hey so a long ask incoming.. I'm new to the whole D/s dynamic tag. I saw your old timers post (which helped a lot) and then I followed and looked at a few of the blogs you recommended to try and educate myself. Part of that education process I'm doing I have one question (for now). Context: my gf and I have been together for a little over a month and I've always inclined towards controlling the scene and being dominant, while my gf enjoys being submissive.

Part of that is the fact that she has self esteem issues and body dysmorphia to some degree. She's a little curvy, and even though I think she's beautiful and I love her body features, society's conditioning of what body type is considered beautiful led her to develop those issues. Most days she is okay, although she doesn't know how to respond to me complimenting her physical aspects. She knows that I love her body and that I think she's beautiful, it's just that she doesn't think that.

And some days are bad. Some days she looks into the mirror and doesn't like what she sees, which leads to self-loath and anxiety, or gets on a scale and it's the same. And on days like that she needs me to take away her control and needs me to use her and her body for my pleasure, in any way that I want. Even on good days she enjoys the control being taken away from her and to submit to me, but especially on bad days. And I want to offer her everything she needs and take care of her.

That's how we started getting into the D/s dynamic. Like that we discovered that she enjoys degradation terms. I was fearful at first to do that and use degrading terms, but being told that she needs that I stepped out of my comfort zone knowing that we are acting out a scene. Outside of them she knows that I care for her and I tell and show her that every chance I have. Now my question is,

Looking at some blogs I saw the rewarding of good behaviour being reinforced over the punishment of misbehaviour and I tried to also apply that to the terms that I use with her. Instead of calling her a wh**e, maybe I could try and use positive terms? And if that would be recommended, what terms do you think would work? I saw princess being used, but I don't think that would suit us. I doubt she would identify with it. I want to discuss this with her because I believe communication is key...

First of all, guy... There's something to be said for brevity in exposition, but I do thank you for the context.

It sounds to me like your question is basically one of positive vs negative reinforcement and the overall value of degradation as kink. There's also an aside regarding pet names there... And you didn't ask it but you're also trying to figure out how to best navigate her body issues.

I'd be willing to bet these questions have come up at some time or another for almost every dominant here. Good on ya for asking for help. Apologies for the wait.

So let's knock out the easy ones... Pet names. Y'all have probably already figured this one out. If not, my suggestion is forget the common list and go with what works for your dynamic... @wolfpack-princesskitty and @kurious17 both chose their own, with some suggestions.

Now degradation... At its extremes, this can be pretty controversial within the community. I'm not sure what form this takes in your dynamic, but here is my personal rule:

If I can't use the term comfortably with a possessive (pro)noun, I won't use it at all.

Example - "My/Daddy's little slut," vs "My/Daddy's fat pig."

One of those makes me rather uncomfortable... Moreso than it would if I didn't take possession of the person to whom I'm referring. That's the key. It can be so easy objectify and dehumanize. Take possession of your partner and then decide what feels right and wrong from that perspective.

For some, that objectification is a kink. I never judge, but it's personally something I would never really be comfortable doing. Maybe it's the Southern gentleman in me... I dunno. Those kind of words just feel wrong in my mouth.

But you should take note of the difference between "you're a slut," and "you're my slut."

I can say with some professional authority that from a psychological point of view any degradation in the form of body shaming should be a hard limit for anyone with body issues. If this is the case, and she's stated it as a need, or if you've decided it's a need for her... No. In all likelihood it's a form of self harm for her.

Some women may insist that they need to feel that shame in a safe environment. I just say stay away from that shit. Which brings us to your primary query... Positive vs negative reinforcement...

It's all about balance, bro. You reward good behaviour, you punish poor behavior. It's that simple. She needs both.

But if you're using affection as positive reinforcement and degradation as negative reinforcement, you're doing it wrong.

You need to make her see herself the way you see her. Everything should be an extension of your love... Reward, punishment... It should all come from the same place... Every impact of the paddle, every time you growl in her ear and call her your dirty little whore... Every kiss on the forehead... Every new rule... It all has to originate in your heart, and she has to know it does, or it ain't worth shit, bro.

I'm sure some will disagree, but I'll point out you didn't ask them, you asked me.

Be well,

Big Bad

[blooming-blooming]

can you talk about when you were aphobic and why you changed your mindset? The general consensus is that aces and aros can hide their identity and don't go through the same abuse as the other sexualities and a huge part of the people against them say they are attention seekers and shouldn't bother to try to be in the community. Is this line of thought accurate? Legit curiosity here

Because Tumblr is an incredibly well coded website, trying to post this on my phone for whatever reason vaporized the ask so I had to resend it to myself verbatim. Hopefully posting this on my desktop won’t like, completely break the website. A plus, though- I sent a link to the broken post with a screenshot of the original ask on my Twitter, and a lot of my friends who also used to be aphobes at the same time as me said this all rang true to their experiences as well, and I put a lot of things into words for how they felt during that time. So, I’d say this is pretty accurate for a lot of aphobes who didn’t go as far as having discourse blogs, at least. Anyways!

I’ve actually been meaning to address this about myself publicly for a while, so you’re fine! It’s kind of amazing... I used to get so mad when people called aphobia rebranded homophobia, but recollecting a lot of what I thought... that’s literally what it is. This is going under a cut because it’s a really long post with a lot of personal info, but if people wanna rb they can, idc.

This is... a really loaded question, so it’s probably going to be a long answer, because there are a lot of very intricate factors that lead to the aphobia in the LGBT community and gatekeeping, I think. One very important fact for my experiences that’ll make sense why it’s relevant later (or right away, if you know your aphobic troll talking points) is that my uncle was gay and died in the AIDS crisis before I was born.

I think the two biggest factors overall are 1) aphobic troll posts often getting heavy traction and 2) misunderstanding the ace/aro - allo dynamic as being oppressed - oppressor, rather than the actual dynamic of fellow community members sharing different experiences. 

In my experience, the consensus is also less about attention seeking, more about aces actually being cishet and trying to steal LGBT resources. The “hiding their identity” logic in my experiences was also less that, and more that being ace/aro didn’t actually impact their identity enough to be “oppressed”. 

Basically, the MO is that being ace doesn’t make you LGBT because asexuality impacts how you feel attraction, not the attraction you feel in and of itself (not true), and thusly if you’re heteromantic/heterosexual along with being ace/aro, you’re still cishet. (Or, if you’re aroace, you’re not cishet, but you’re still more privileged and not a part of the community because you’re not oppressed for experiencing same gender attraction.) That’s the gatekeeper logic in a nutshell. 

The biggest thing that makes people aphobic, I think, is as I said: troll posts. In recent years, the only things to really come across my feed about asexuality when not from aces are solidarity posts. Because of that, I’m not sure if the posts that bait people are the same as when I was younger, or if using troll posts at all are even as prevalent now. However, they were very prevalent on my feed in 2014-2016. They’d be standard homophobic talking points, but dressed up on fakewoke language with aces and aros as the punchline - generally, things along the line of, “These two gay kids were holding hands at my school’s GSA today and it disgusted me because I’m romance repulsed.” Things that, in hindsight, are really obviously fake, and were really obviously said to rile up LGBT people. The most infamous line of rhetoric trolls used, which is what got myself and many others I know to go aphobic, was, “if aces were a part of the LGBT community, the AIDS crisis would have done less damage because aces would convince people to have less sex.” You can see why this would enrage several of LGBT people, especially someone like me who has very, very personal losses related to the AIDS crisis. It was a lot of cheap shots at an extremely vulnerable community to rile them up against their own, and unfortunately it worked hook, line, and sinker. 

Something that really pushed the “us vs. them” mentality that had people fall for posts like this is that many ace people put more focus on the asexuality than they do other aspects of their identity, leading us to assume a much higher ratio were cishet than in realty. (This, and conversely the “well I support LGBT aces, just not the cishet ones” is an aspect that MAJORLY gives me homophobia vibes now. Acting entitled to extremely personal information on peoples’ attraction and gender is so, SO invasive, and it’s something LGBT people are subject to enough /all the time/ outside of their own community, let alone also being forced to in it.)

With this foundation set, it brings me to point two. Many people were very predisposed from aphobic troll posts to viewing aces/aros as homophobic cishets, so when actual aces coined allosexual/alloromantic to talk about their experiences, people completely misunderstood the meanings of these terms and once again took out their aggression on them. I think I summarized it pretty succinctly in my introduction, but these terms were created so aces/aros could talk about their unique experiences in contrast to other people, both in and out of the LGBT community. However, aphobes took it the wrong way (especially with the help of - surprise! - more troll posts!) and viewed it as if ace people were saying having romantic/sexual attraction at all makes you more privileged than them, and thusly are oppressing them. Obviously, this isn’t true - aces/aros are oppressed by cishet people, just like the rest of the LGBT community. The terms only existed for clarification.

This was another key factor for me in particular- my sexual attraction to women was a very, VERY vulnerable point for me that I struggled with for years, even after coming out. The concept that I could have privilege over another person for something I had so much difficulty with was incredibly insulting. This was probably my peak in aphobia, because I felt MY community was being invaded by my oppressors and trying to spin me to be the oppressor. 

There’s a lot more aspects of aphobia, I think the vulnerability a lot of LGBT people have is another very major aspect to why a lot latched onto aphobia. That’s a very complicated subject I’m not quite sure how to delve into besides what I’ve already explained on it lending itself to those aspects, however. There was also just... a lot of straight up denying facts that you didn’t agree with. The most common I can remember is denying corrective rape happened because of aphobia, and insisting it was actually misogyny. Which... I’ve used eloquent language to this point, but I’m going to be blunt: telling someone they’re wrong about how/why they experienced their abuse is fucking disgusting. 

I think that covers the bases for how I felt during this period... I didn’t follow discourse blogs or anything, so a lot of my friends just stopped reblogging it as we realized a lot of it was also just an excuse people made up so they could bully ace kids. From there, it was mostly just slowly opening up, reading the posts my ace friends made and shared on the subject, and reflecting on myself. It was definitely a progressive process; I went from “neutral on ace discourse” after realizing most aces aren’t even cis and/or hetero (though, ftr, it doesn’t matter if they are or not)

Then late last year/early this year I started feeling isolated in the community for not being attracted to men (which was a personal thing and not the fault of other groups), and... things started clicking. I realized that aces, regardless of orientation, also lacked either sexual and/or romantic attraction to men, and suddenly started feeling less alone - especially because ace lesbians also exist. While I don’t think I particularly reached out, my mind opened up significantly more with that, and I started realizing a lot of common ground between us as a community in general. 

While I was having this realization, posts started coming on my feed about just how badly the ace community had been damaged by the rise of aphobia and ace discourse, and it started really sinking in just how horrific aphobia truly is. An entire community was more or less dismantled right when it was just starting to thrive, and the members are only just now starting to get back to a place of comfort again. It’s sickening, especially to know I was a part of it. Last month I saw a post about an ace lesbian being harassed at a pride event because she only had ace merch on, and someone justified it with her making her identity “about sex” - That was what really solidified everything for me and how much I’ve changed, because that is what homophobes say about nonsexual gay PDA with zero changes. 

I do want to apologize to all the ace people in my life, both if you knew I felt this way, or if you’re just finding out I used to feel this way and are hurt by it. I know I’ve apologized to at least one person privately, but you can’t truly love someone if you don’t support all aspects of them. I’ve worked ridiculously hard to unlearn everything, but that doesn’t justify that I thought these things to begin with. I understand any action people need to take to feel comfortable.

This was... a really deeply personal post that covers half a decade, more or less. But it does feel good to get out and like a weight has been lifted. Like I said, this is something I’ve wanted to publicly talk about and own up to, but didn’t know how to go about it. If nothing else, I think this is a pretty comprehensive look at how aphobes think and operate for resource purposes.

[julystorms]

Hi! I love your metas so I wanted your objective opinion on something. I legit don't care for shipping but Jean & Marcos friendship hit me like a bag of bricks (pre entering fandom). But as with all things that bring me joy, I've since dissected their relationship to the point where I question how close they even were canonically (manga only bc I'm anal af- I know they have smartpass, guidebook stuff, etc). So I was wondering: on a scale of Yumikuri to delusional.. Where does JM fall for you?

All personal bias aside, I wouldn’t say it’s delusional, but I also wouldn’t put it even halfway to the level of Yumikuri, a canonical romantic relationship.

I personally do not think they were especially close; I don’t think Jean opened himself up to friendship easily and I loathe the idea that we’re supposed to buy into a close relationship between them without getting anything from the canon until, you know, right before Marco kicks the bucket. It’s too obviously manipulative in much the same way Hannah and Franz were: pass.

But also, I think pushing Marco as Jean’s “inspiration” for joining the SC demeans Jean’s place in the world, not to mention his experiences that exist outside of the Marcosphere. Jean is from Trost and he watched his entire hometown get overrun, saw corpses in the street, buildings he’d known all his life smashed to pieces–and worried, no doubt, about his family/friends/neighbors. I’ve said this before in previous Jean meta discussion, but Jean’s experience is a little like Eren’s… It’s just that in Jean’s case, he can do something about it. He can fight back where Eren had to watch his world burn. I love that Marco steps up and gives Jean some encouragement, but I’d rather this be because Marco is the kind of person to recognize the little talents present in those around him vs. because Marco and Jean are just so close. 

That might sound a bit rude, so let me explain my thought process a little more. Marco’s a cardboard cutout at best. He barely has any personality and he never really does anything except encourage Jean that one time. Oh, and he dies. But so did a lot of other characters, and nobody ever gave half so much a shit about them. Marco as the kind of person who naturally recognizes talent/skill would give him a little more…of a foundation in the story? I don’t like idea of Marco encouraging Jean just because they’re acquaintances or friends; I want that encouragement to be genuine because when Marco talks about it, it seems genuine to me. I don’t see it as shippy or pandering nonsense meant to make us believe Jean and Marco are close. I want it to be bigger than that.

In fact, I’d argue that if they’re only loosely friends, that comment means more to Jean because he KNOWS it’s genuine, it’s said in good faith, there’s no bias on Marco’s part. He probably has even heard Marco point out true good traits in other people. In this way, Marco really believes Jean has leadership potential! Nothing he’s saying is being said because he wants to cheer Jean up; his encouragement is nothing more than the honest truth. And it also makes his death a little sadder because in a way, Marco could even be paralleling Jean’s honesty: it’s just that Jean is brutal with his honesty and Marco is earnest. I even love the idea that Jean learns some kinder honesty from Marco.

Anyway, I think Marco was largely forgotten about in the series by the one character fandom seems to want to remember him; I imagine Armin thinks of him more often than Jean does. Jean’s stance with Marco seems to be, to me: that was a tragedy and something awful happened there, but it’s not something I–or we as a group–can afford to dwell on.

That said, I think viewing Jean & Marco as BFFs/close friends/friendly/work-buddies is perfectly legitimate and valid as far as an interpretation of the work goes. 

I prefer to imagine that Marco and Jean weren’t really that close, and that loss of a potential close friendship (or more, if you like) is one of the factors that helps Jean decide to join the Survey Corps. Like maybe in hindsight he’s seeing Marco as the kind of person maybe he could have trusted with the parts of himself he isn’t usually comfortable sharing with other people.

I also don’t see Jean as the type of person who gets emotionally close to other characters easily. Even his crush on Mikasa doesn’t really cloud his judgment overmuch, and we never see him really trying to emotionally dump on her either–the one character we’d kind of expect him to try and get emotionally close to by default. Because of this I find it really hard to believe that Marco was ever the game-changer even the creator claims he was. Obviously he’s still a big factor, but I find it kind of insulting to say Marco had a bigger role in making Jean’s mind up than the carnage he witnessed in his own hometown lol. We see Jean generally friendly with his teammates–even Marlowe, who doesn’t come across as very friendly a personality–but physical/outward appearances can be deceiving. Just because Jean fist-bumps Marlowe and ruffles Armin’s hair doesn’t mean he’s the kind of person who is capable of, or willing to, pour his heart out to them. I feel the same way about Marco. He acts somewhat friendly to Marco but we never get to see them bond or share things about themselves–unlike, say, Ymir and Historia, whose entire arc was dedicated to showing them learning how to share difficult-to-talk-about, intimate details about themselves.

TL;DR: JM will never be on Yumikuri’s level. Yumikuri is a canonical romantic pairing. I don’t see anything wrong with interpreting JM as a close friendship or romantic pairing, but ya gotta realize that’s all it is: an interpretation. It’s not canon. (Just like I realize that my interpretation of the Jean and Marco relationship is just that: an interpretation. It’s not canon either.)