#+ I didnt like tt03 much at all

[mickidona]

Genuinely makes me so sad when people’s first reaction to hearing literally anything about teen titans go is to laugh and jeer about how much of a trash rubbish show it is compared to the cinematic masterpiece of tt03.. it’s just a different cartoon

[mamawasatesttube]

red robin (2009) #5

"[...] But you have ripped open the stitches from your surgery." "Ah." (Well, that's embarrassing.)

whats wrong with him.

[roseworth]

Any thoughts on Bart and Rose?

MANY

they make me so goddamn emotional. first of all bart being genuinely interested in being friends with her in a period of her life where she felt like no one really wanted her around.. like the titans kinda had to look after her and the older titans saw her as an unstable child that had to be taken care of (which is correct. but she didnt like that). but BART just looked at her and thought she was cool and wanted to hang out with her <3

and him saying "its not like that" is sooo sweet bc he really just wanted to be friends with her 😭 ge*ff made their relationship sorta romantic but its so sweet that he saw her and said "idk how i feel about her but i just know i want to hang out with her <3"

also my fav thing ever is that he sees her screaming at donna and crying and goes "this is the perfect time to make my move 😎" its so fucking funny because then the NEXT time he sees her he does the exact same thing. she watched her foster parents get murdered in front of her and bart goes "hey rose! its me your friend!" ily bart. but he just keeps running into her at the absolute lowest points in her life and trying to be friends. like baby shes about to kill herself this is not the time to hang out...

and then. GOD. HELLO. tt03 #12 makes me lose my fucking mind btw

sobbing because hes the ONLY PERSON that ever reached out to her during this era. hes the only person that recognized there was something wrong and tried to help her. he knew her!!! he thought she was lying to slade because he couldnt believe she would do that. GOD.

it drives me insane that so many people who shouldve done something to help her just. didnt. but i understand that sometimes the story has to happen and they couldnt do it. thats FINE its FINE

ooouuuuggaaagahguhhohuguhhoyhuguhhughggaghahhguhhuogouhghhggagghhguhuahgguhhohooouuauauhghggaagahhuhguhooouguhaggahghgh. im fine.

"rose was there. trying not to be like her dad. trying to be something else." ACK. OUCH. ok im fine.

then. titans of tomorrow 🤮

scraps of what could've been....... i assume geoff had an arc in mind where the titans take rose back (they were at least kinda hinting at it in some of the stories) and i so badly want to know what would've happened. i like the renegade arc but i wish we got a story with the titans taking her back :((( i dont trust jeff geohns with anything but... in my imagination it would've been a great story with bart coming to get her and convincing her to leave her dad

and im still refusing to acknowledge the rest of the titans of tomorrow arc because that story is so goddamn stupid and boring. but theyre married or something in it idk

BUT. BUT BUT BUT. heres where i get insane

because ouuughhhh they could be besties but they just. keep missing each other. right person wrong time but platonically because oughhhh they first met when rose's life was just completely destroyed. then they meet again when rose's life was destroyed AGAIN. then!!!!!!!! when rose meets the team its right after bart leaves and later dies

throwing up and crying bc after rose dies we get so much of rose's favorite trauma response of suppressing it and pretending she doesnt care then trying to fuck someone

someone that she considered a friend but hadnt been able to talk to in years dies and she says "LOL that funeral is so boring! haha bart meant nothing to me. im fine. stop talking about feelings and lets skinny dip right now. bart who" go off queen <3 she does not want to let herself feel any emotion so she represses it as hard as she can forever

(btw. i have complicated feelings about this bc as much as its in character for her to repress all her feelings with sexualizing herself,,,, ew. idk if this is johns or mckeever but its one of their faults and i know it because despite defining all the important aspects of her character theyre both so gross about her sometimes. men 👎 but thats a completely different rant)

ARRHCHHGGHFAHN.... THEN. titans of tomorrow (🤮) again

bart spent this entire story saying she was awful and trying to murder her (they divorced i guess. stupid ass storyline i dont care) shes still sad to lose him again. this is literally the only time she lets herself mourn him and its right after hes been trying to kill her. there is so much wrong with her <3 <3 <3

also as i was looking for that panel i saw this one and i think its so silly:

thats my girl!!! take no responsibility for anything ever and always find someone else to blame for your actions 💞 and bonus points for hating men !

anyways. then later the krul run happens and theyre both vaguely out of character but they FINALLY get to be friends again!!!!!! theyre buddies!!!!!!!!!!!! theyre hanging out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

besties bullying a 12 year old together <3

also one of my favs because i know its supposed to be "haha barts being creepy to her XD isnt that so funny" but inside my head this moment is just bart getting so excited about being on a team with rose again that he refuses to let her miss any of the action. he grabs her hand and gets her into her costume and doesnt think anything of it because hes just so happy that he gets to hang out with his buddy <3 that wasnt the writers intention. but it is to me

if youre willing to exaggerate. they r so besties here. they are taking every opportunity to hang out because they finally get to be buddies :') we still get to see bart just genuinely liking her and once again he just thinks shes cool and wants to hang out with her <3333 theyre so much fun

and i cant keep looking for screenshots because reading the end of this book bums me out since the new52 happened and they couldnt finish any of the arcs they had planned. lili worth i miss you every day

anyways yeah to answer your question. i love bart & rose 👍 the way hes one of the only people that just. likes her. hes the first person (ish) that reaches out to her after her mom died when she was at a very low point in her life and he continues to just enjoy her company and like her as a person which doesnt happen a lot <///3 there are so few people that like her and want to spend time with her and just genuinely think shes a good person but bart always does!!!!! barring t*tans *f t*morrow bart always likes her and always thinks highly of her when no ones else does 💞💞💞 theyre so sweet and i want them to interact again

[zeroducks-2]

(newbie anon) thank you so much for the answer!! i will most definitely scroll through the tags you pointed out, just like you advised later after work! i did read and just finished the slade in tt03 meta that you linked, though.

i wanted to say, i agree completely with what you said in it by the way. while i am new to the comics, i did watch some of the animations series as i grew up, including tt03. i remember being creeped out and scared whenever he showed up on screen, and the fear that he ignited was not the kind of dramatic “oh noo he is gonna try to kill the good guys!!”, but it was the kind of fear that i/most people get when watching a horror-ghost movie, and i just wanted to run and get away from it.

also, while following the series, at one point i began to wonder “is it just me or slade is so obsessed with robin, in a very weird and creepy way..” but i was a teen back then, didnt have much/any critical reading therefore didnt catch the sexual subtexts/undertones of his actions.

anyway, for now, i only have one question, which is that: what is your reading/take on dick’s character? i was a marvel comics fan, so i understand the inconsistencies of characterization in comics, especially when you add the reboots etc into it. it’s basically a contradiction all over, multiple readings/characterizations based on which canon that you pick. but there must be a consistency in the writing from their initial creation (especially for character as old as dick, during classic era) to the current era.

(and for me, i judge & shape my reading based on that. what characterization did they have initially—from the classic era, and which stay consistent to that purpose)

ahh sorry this got very long :”) thank you so much for your answer once again!

Hello again, sorry it took me a while to get back to you. You ask a difficult question and I had to think about it a lot (then RL also got in the way you know how it is), and to be honest I'm still not sure how to answer!

Dick has been written in so many different ways that I can't pinpoint a constant. I read him as the first child of an abusive guardian, who can't really ever break free of the trauma bonding. I also read him as extremely parentified and in charge of the emotional well-being of his family, and of having shoulders broad enough to carry it (unfortunately for him). Surely I prefer when he's written as empathetic and emotionally intelligent rather than when he broods and acts brash, but that really changes according to who's handling him at the moment in the "canon continuity", or in any given DC byproduct like the videogames, WFA or an animated movie.

My main thing with Dick is that I associate him with emotional vulnerability, selflessness, hope, and the strength to keep going despite everything. As toxic as their relationship tends to be, Dick was the light of hope for Bruce and allowed him to keep going and find something worth fighting for. He chose the name Nightwing after a Kryptonian hero and then decided to become a beacon of hope for Bludhaven, a city so full of violence it was even worse than Gotham. He's a symbol among vigilantes and heroes alike and I guess he's a symbol for the DC fandom as well in a way.

My take on Dick is also that he's destined to never truly be happy unless everyone around him is happy, but this will never happen because the moment he manages to make everyone happy, he leaves to find another situation like that. This is because being a vigilante in DC comics is a sysiphean task - Jason can never go past his trauma of dying and having been unavenged, Damian can never free himself from the shackles of his heritage, Bruce can never stop being Batman because the same villains will keep haunting Gotham, and he will never elaborate the loss of his parents. Dick can never stop looking for the happiness and carefreeness he had from when he was a circus kid, unable to find his own center and inner peace, and so he will keep guiding young and old heroes on their paths without ever truly reaching his personal happiness and fulfillment.

I'm not sure this was the answer you were hoping to get, sorry if I went on a bit of a tirade. Again welcome to the fandom!

[misspickman]

cissie !!

Sexuality Headcanon: thats a lesbian babyy

Gender Headcanon: generally i think of her as nonbinary but tbh any flavor of genderqueer. u cant tell me someone who hates their name and went by different names is cis

A ship I have with said character: cissiecassie obvs but also anitacissie, i mean the story writes itself

A BROTP I have with said character: i love her and bart soo much but also cissie and kon have a special place in my heart. in general the entirety of young justice

A NOTP I have with said character: recently i saw a couple of tim/cissie fics around and i guess theres not anything Wrong with this but it feels wrong, to me. theyre good friends but like romantically?? i cant see it

A random headcanon: re her being nonbinary i think of cissies gender as one of those 'i need to get more masc so i can be more fem' posts. its real to me. maybe it starts out of spite or just the desire to see what she could have been like without her moms influence and then she lands somewhere in the middle. a lot of what we see of her in yj98 gives more prep vibes but i like to think of her as more of a jock, in a more casual sense (i mean this about fashion specifically)

General Opinion over said character: her overall arc in yj98 is one of my fav parts of that comic, really enjoy how despite quitting the team shes still prevalent and a part of the group ignoring tt03, and idk shes just a very well-rounded character? her one sided rivalry with anita, how quickly she and cassie become besties but how shes still ready to call her out on her bullshit, the way shes allowed to set up boundaries and refuse to come back to the team and have that decision be respected mostly, i didnt expect all that to be done in a satisfying way but imo it was! would love to have her back as yj's civilian friend who they keep trying to not so subtly include in various ways

[clambuoyance]

u are soooo right about t shirt kon and 90s kon like. everytime i see someone viewing them as separate characters/hating on one something in me dies. as someone who's read all his comics and loves him immensely...they are the same person! all his comics are bad unfortunately and he has good character arcs in both eras thats just the way it is. the true enemy imo is yj cartoon conner..

😭 i mean definitely they can be very different at times but like…not different enough to be unrecognizable(?). altho the retcons and stuff do a Lot to change things (esp the importance of ttk which undoubtedly changes a part of his character ) and to be fair my brain does do a lot with supplying my own hcs/reasons whenever i dont like a creative choice. and yeah, theres like a lot of bad and good in both eras 😔😔😔 i have sooooooo many problems w his 90s solo, but his overall character growth is so interesting, and while my problems with tt03 mostly lie w the writing i enjoy how he’s a tad bit more grounded. and like i said before i enjoy the 2009-2011 era a lot cuz i feel like the spirit of his early humor returned while still following that emotional arc that started in 2003.

a lot of the themes from 90s superboy maybe didnt reach the conclusion i wanted, but im at least glad that the struggle with identity and agency to become your own person outside of anyone’s control or regardless of what is dictated to you remained. it’s like The Main Theme for him or at least one of the major themes, i think. well its just one of the many things i like

honestly i think my favorite characterizations of him though would be the original young justice 1998 comics and the reign of the supermen comics (ROTS is just such a fun and wacky read like i love it sm), and then the boy of steel mini comic. maybe one day ill write a long ass fic about what i’d do with superboy and all the potential arcs his character offers🤷🏻‍♀️

but yj tv show conner? that’s a Completely different guy. i don’t remember much but i thought he was fine as his own character i guess. definitely Not the same character as comics!conner. but his s2 outfit w the gloves, the long sleeves, the cargo pants? mmmmm i love that shit

[woahajimes]

gurl i wanna know your answers to *all* those questions please

bet

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?* mmm jayroy and kogane/moniwa i s'pose

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP?* jayroy for this one too and maybe batcat? like not brotp but idk i dont ship them // asanoya, kuroken ( i mean i do ship it but im not invested and havent read many fics but i definitely see why its a ship but also they're friendsss)

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion? i once blocked a buncha ppl that i didnt even follow bc they said shitty things about astrid arkham while i thought she was cool

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?* as long as they're not incest/pedo ships then i honestly don't mind any ships

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?* uhhh i don't think so? maybe yja birdflash

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?* not really but i have starting shipping pairs bc of fanart and stuff (konbart, kagehina, sunaosa, atsuhina)

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?* like in fandom?? or irl?? bc uhhh ?? ill think about it lmao

Have you received anon hate? What about?*y ooh yes and they're all stupid asf (one about tim, another about steph, a bunch about me, and a few about timkon)

Most disliked character(s)? Why? mmm older jon in certain writings, everything in the 2003 tt run (specially cassie i just can't stand her idk her character was butchered and its not HER and it pisses me off), and uhhh for hq i don't have any in particular. i love them all.

Most disliked arc? Why? hmmm??? i don't knowwwww/ none come to mind lmao but i hate a few i know this (im sure there are a bunch of posts of me professing my hate for arcs n stuff) -- edit: the one in which seijoh my beloved DIDN'T go to nationals like 🙄 the fuck was that one about amirite

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? A BUNCH. LORENA AQUAGIRL, GARTH MY BELOVED, miguel <3, that one kid in the 50s batman issue, simon baz, jessica criz, jesse chambers <33 they're not disliked but underrated // for hq its komaki my beloved (like it's all ''pretty setter'' this and ''pretty setter'' that but he's NEVER INCLUDED like smh) ALSO SHIBAYAMA AND INUOKA OMG I LOVE THEM SO MUCH AND KANOKA --again, just underrated (not a SINGLE kanoka playlist. shame.)

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why? mmm?? teen titans from the n52

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? aroace agender jason todd

Unpopular opinion about your fandom? lmfao dc was my first fandom (interacting-with-fandom fandom) and it's all "fuck dc" this and "fuck dc" that so when i enter new fandoms i gotta bite my tongue bc immideately its "i know ur characters better than u, [author]! you suck!" but noo

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show? l5ve it

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change? i'd let seijoh go to nationals... everyone gets to go to nationals fuck you

Instead of XYZ happening, I would have made ABC happen… nah

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased? i don't get the question bc im tired and have no brains <3 but sometimes i go "i am NOT going to feel this way about XX character because everyone else feels that way about him (read: i will NOT be a jason simp bc everyone's a jason simp anyways -- disclaimer: I AM NOT)

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom? no <3 --edit: b*tcest shippers

What is the purest ship in the fandom? UHHH harlivy <3 i won't say PURE but yes i love them (ALSO AQUAFLASH) // aofuta, yamatsukki, iwaoi, iwasuga!! (listen. there is lots of angsty fics with them but pls.)

What are your thoughts on crack ships? crack ships as in,,, never interacted in canon ever?? bc if so yes

Popular character you hate? no (joker)

Unpopular character you love? SO MANY OMG. eddie from tt03 (only good character to come put of it i swear) and a LOT more from dc i swear i only love the most unpopular characters and theres NO content so ughh // yes 100/100 all of them. from haikyuu i love all of them

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not? yes 1000/1000 if i like it ill recommend it but also sometimes i wanna keep things to myself and for ME but i always end up recommending lmfao

How would you end XXX/Would you change the ending of XXX? hm? no

Most shippable character? uhh dick maybe?? yes def also akaashi and iwa (and oikawa and samu and literslly everyone also daichi and-)

Least shippable character? jason and asahi ... whoops (jason bc i hc his as aroace lol) also like arthur curry like :/

[roseworth]

thoughts on eddierose?

my eddierose thoughts are very similar to my jayrose thoughts tbh! i think theyre so much fun together and i love seeing them show up but i like them better as friends

their dynamic when they first show up in tt03 is soooo much fun bc <3 theyre both so insecure about their place on the team so they band together and become ride or die and its so sweet. rose thinks that she doesnt belong on the team but as soon as she perceives a threat against both of them she jumps to eddies defense <333 theyre so cute

its so much more interesting to me when theyre just friends because at this point neither of them really have any other friends. theyre both going through really rough periods in their life (eddie's aunt died, his mentor abandoned him, and he sold his soul to the devil. rose just left slade and is still struggling with who she is) and they latch onto each other because theyre the only ones they feel like they can trust :''') eddie never knew rose when she was with slade which she likes because she hates the version of herself that was being drugged but no one trusts her because they saw her. but eddie didnt and he knows that she was being drugged when it happened so he trusts her <3 they both just need someone to be there and actually care and thats what they are to each other!!!! to me it loses some of the impact when its romantic because its a very meaningful friendship to both of them

however. smoking scene my beloved. this is the most iconic thing anyone has ever done shoutout straight people

AND. GOD. my favorite of all time is when eddie gets hurt and rose loses her shit and tries to fight everyone

me when rose is worried and feels powerless so she immediately starts deflecting and covering up all her feelings with anger 😍😍🥰🥰🥰💞💓💞💕💖💘💕💓💘💖💗💓💞💘💕💞💖💓 thats my girl!!!

i cant really see them as romantic together just because their relationship is so much more fun when theyre just being friends instead of when they start pushing for more romantic stuff. at the beginning theyre kinda like a team of the two of them and its so sweet :') theyre constantly looking out for each other and hanging out together when no one else is and its so much fun to me ! even during this period that johns was setting up a future romance but in my head they were just friends and it was great

also omg. the issue where rose is accused of being a traitor and eddie immediately goes "ur wrong actually! thats my bff and she would never do that" <3333 i love this issue because no one actually believes rose would do that but i looooove eddie's reaction because he never doubts her and never stops believing her because! thats his buddy who talks shit about her dad 100 times a day! and he knows her well enough even after such a short time of being on the same team <33

anyways. as much as i stand by mckeever's rose later on i haaaate what he did with eddie & rose. first of all if youre not reading it as her being a lesbian, the shit with "rose is pretending to be friends with blue beetle to make eddie jealous" is so fucking stupid. she suddenly starts acting like she doesnt give a shit about eddie and constantly ignores him which is completely different than what she was doing like 5 issues prior. then eddie is also completely obsessed with her??? like its no longer a "thats my friend and i like spending time with her" its a huge (seemingly unrequited) crush and like?? bringing her flowers and passing out at the sight of her. i really hate it

then in fresh hell theyre suddenly so much more romantic than they ever were before and it just feels ?? weird and unearned??

maybe im just a hater but this feels like it comes out of nowhere. the last time they interacted before this she was brushing him off and lying to him to make him jealous then next thing you know theyre staring longingly into each others eyes and going "i would go anywhere with you babygirl 😍" what is going on!!! mckeever wanted a romance between them so bad that he forgot to put in any of the buildup. like this is sweet but it just feels so forced to me

BUT. oh my god. the ending of fresh hell where she starts hallucinating him is so fuckign hhghmghhm <3

BECAUSE. HES FUCKING DEAD AND SHE DOESNT KNOW. it makes me emotional every time i think about it. shes having a crisis and thinking about him and she has no idea hes already dead. im still so mad that they never showed rose's reaction to eddie being dead because hgjhghhmmh!!! thats her buddy!!!! thats her only friend!!!!!!! let me see her upset that hes dead!!!!!!! fuck. its very in character for her to lose someone then ignore that it ever happened and never bring them up ever but still.... :(

i just think that theyre so much fun together <3 they have such a good friendship and i love seeing them hanging out and looking out for each other <333 i dont mind them romantically when its done well (smoking scene) but unfortunately most of the time their romance is so boring to me. let them be friends!!! let them be close platonically without the halfassed will they wont they!!!!

[roseworth]

im a little sick rn so im sorry if this doesnt make sense or sounds like the ramblings of a crazy person. but every once in a while i see people say that teen titans 2003 completely butchered rose's character and while i think thats true i feel like its also important to mention that. tt03 completely defined rose's character. dgmw she had plenty of good appearances beforehand (titans 99 rose my forever beloved) but teen titans IS her character

like she had showed up in deathstroke comics and mostly either didnt have much of a personality or was experiencing a lot of emotions given that she was having the worst week of her life so its hard to pinpoint an actual personality from that, then in titans she was a fun character but was entirely a side character that didnt have a lot to do. she was on two titans teams before tt03 but never went on a mission (unless u count that one ww issue she was in). not to mention her entire relationship with slade was "hes just kinda the guy that impregnated my mom then indirectly got her killed" so she didnt like him but she also didnt care all that much

but tt03. usually when geoff johns butchers a character he doesnt really give a reason for why their personality is different, but with rose there is a very clear explanation. in #0.5 despite its problems (mischaracterizing lili in the one (1) panel she appeared in and giving rose the. sigh. foster parents.) she was pretty much the same she had been in deathstroke comics, where she was a mostly average person with mild violent tendencies. then wade (same guy that killed her mom) came and murdered her foster parents in front of her, she was very obviously angry and was having a VERY emotionally charged moment. she was angry at the titans because they were the closest people nearby in that moment, then she wasnt angry at slade because he was the one handing her a gun to let her take her revenge. so we very clearly see what made her feel like slade was her only resort, then in issue #12 they say that slade is using the super soldier serum on her to keep her there. so everything is laid out pretty clearly. then ofc when she joins the team in #34 its pretty obvious that her personality is gonna be different bc shes just gotten out of being forced to work with slade against her will, then put on the teen titans where she feels like no one but eddie actually wants her there, but she cant leave because she thinks slade will find her again. shes angry and hurting and her life has been fundamentally changed

basically idk. tt03 shaped most of her personality, her relationship with slade, and her general outlook on life and actually gave a reason for why so much was changed. and before that she had been a pretty minor character, so teen titans gave her a chance to actually. be a character with motives. so while she is a different character in tt03 (though i'd also argue that she has a fairly similar personality in the deathstroke comics she'd been in) i dont think its entirely true to say that it was BAD for her character

[roseworth]

Could I get your thoughts on Teen Titans #78 and 79? Also how would you have concluded Rose's character arc regarding her family?

i LOOOOOOOOVE that story <3 its such a great representation of roses relationship with slade w the way she comes there to kill him then later on goes "nvm i love him and dont want him to die. this sucks."

not to mention!!!! it shows the difference between rose & joey's relationships with slade sooooooo well bc joey was raised by slade and thinks theres good in him! but rose wasnt raised by him and doesnt believe in any good in him (but loves him anyway)!!!!! GOD.

i love it its a fantastic wilson family story and gets all their dynamics down rly well <3 i love rose & joey in that story i love it when they get to hang out (disregard the zombies theyre just hanging out) 💕💕💕

as for how i would have concluded the arc. i have thoughts.

first of all it haunts me every single day of my life that the new 52 came and stopped anything from happening with this. her mom was ALIVE and she was being talked about!!!!!! then n52 came and erased her from existence and i will never not be upset about it (also the last panel lili has ever appeared in they made her BLONDE.) i wish i could contact jt krul and ask him what the plan was i need to know so badly

but honestly. if it were me writing it i would not have brought lili back. i think the story would be so much more intriguing if rose was basically on a wild goose chase since the only evidence she had wasnt very strong but it gave her HOPE so she clung onto it for as long as she could

plus i feel like rose would have a lot of guilt surrounding her mothers death (since she died protecting her) even though she doesnt outwardly show any guilt and just blames slade for all of it, so shes doing everything she can to a) prove to herself that she didnt actually kill her mother and b) make up for the fact that it was her fault (in her mind) and get forgiveness for it. but she doesnt get any closure or forgiveness so she has to learn to accept that she did have a role in her mom's death but it doesnt make it her fault

anyways after obsessing over finding her mom just to realize that she actually was dead the whole time rose would have a catastrophic breakdown and probably take it out on slade, who would probably make it worse on purpose

i havent thought about it in depth so i dont know exactly how it would happen but i would say that eventually she realizes that the titans were there for her while she was looking for her mom and while she was in the middle of her breakdown, then be like "the titans are my family and its great <3 fuck my stupid dad"

then she has insane lesbian sex with cassie and then everyone lives happily ever after until another writer comes along and decides to retread the same drama and ignore character development because thats what they love to do in tt03

[roseworth]

hi tumblr user roseworth im desperately trying to figure out how old rose and eddie were by the end of their tenures in tt03 / how long they knew each other and it is... difficult especially because sooo much happened dc-event-wise during tt03. do you have any canon sources or noncanon thoughts on their ages beyond eddie being 17 in part of tt03 and rose being 14(?) when lilli dies ^_^

hiiiiii <3 unfortunately i dont have a great answer for this bc. comic timelines. but ill do my very best

so for rose the only time we get anything about her age in tt03 is in issue #0.5 (when she gets taken by slade) when it says that lili and slade met 18 years ago

so i assume that makes rose ~17 when she join slade (since lili would've been pregnant for 9 months after this)

we also get this panel saying that lili died 18 months before rose joins slade, putting her at around 15 or 16 when lili dies. iirc she was 14 when wintergreen sees her for the first time, so we can assume a year went by between wintergreen meeting lili and lili's death (if tt03 is to be believed! but deathstroke 1991 (annual #4) mentions that shes 14 when her mom dies)

anyways this also means that roy hired her as a live-in nanny when she was 16 years old which is really funny to me. but none of that matters; point is she was 17ish at the start of tt03

this is just my personal headcanon but i assume that the time between titans/yj graduation day -> infinite crisis is around a year, and if rose joins up with slade a little after graduation day then shes with him for just under a year

HOWEVER if we go by what slade says in nightwing #112, rose has only been with him for a few months

so based on that, rose is 17 (probably closer to 18) when she leaves slade

then infinite crisis happens and we skip to a year later! so shes 18/19 now. we dont get any specifics on her age but just for funsies we can assume that shes at least 18 since shes smoking and cyborg doesnt have a problem with it (he confiscates her alcohol but not her cigarettes), and the tobacco age in california in 2006 was 18

THEN it gets complicated. i dont have a source for this but i think theres supposed to be a year between oyl -> final crisis, making rose 19/20 by fresh hell (the secret reason she got kicked off the teen titans was because she wasnt a teen #adulthood)

also in fresh hell, she orders alcohol at a bar in canada (in the northwest territories where the drinking age is 19) so theoretically that makes her at least 19. though she never actually gets the drinks because she gets in a fight 2 seconds after this so she doesnt get carded so who knows!

from there. i dont have much. i assume that a full year doesnt go by from fresh hell to the end of the universe (if anyone knows how long bart & kon were dead for that might change things, but i assume we're not given any exact info on how long it was), so i would put rose at ~20 right before the new 52 happens!!

as for eddie, ill use the same tt03 timeline that i used for rose

like you mentioned, hes 17 in tt03 #42 (for reference rose is 18/19 at this time)

he didnt join the teen titans that long before this, we see him asking to join in 52 #51, which is like a week or two before tt03 #34 (the first tt issue after oyl) so its safe to assume that eddie is 17 when he joins the team

anyways after #42, i dont think we get any mention of his age? which is honestly kinda weird since his age is Very Important given that hes selling his soul to neron at 20. we should have an eddie's age tracker at all times

if we assume that hes 17 when he joins the teen titans and oyl -> final crisis is 1 year, then hes right around 18 or 19 when he dies

when he loses his powers then tries to make another contract to get them back in tt03 #68, kid eternity mentions that he'd have "a few years of superheroing," so him being 18 around this time makes sense

then he dies in #74 </3 no mention of his age anywhere but id say hes right around 18 when he dies

take all of this with a grain of salt bc a lot of this is just me making up timelines. but i personally think rose is 15 when her mom dies, 17 when slade takes her, 18 when she leaves slade, and 19 as of tt03 #34 (oyl). and eddie is 17 when he joins the team and 18 when he dies!

[roseworth]

Would you have done Terror Titans differently?⚔️

i would change pretty much everything about rose's characterization </3 my biggest problem with that book is that her motivations make no sense and arent at all in line with anything about her character and it drives me crazy

it seems like they thought that rose secretly working against him the whole time would be too obvious so they just. didnt. and shes hanging out with clock king and working with him for no real reason. i think it would've been SO much better if, even though its an obvious twist, she was trying to dismantle the tournament from the inside. the story,,, sort of did this???? but not in a way that mattered. it basically waits until the end to say "now rose realizes that this is bad" as if she didnt know what was going on the whole time?????

^ this is not a reveal. she knew exactly what was happening the entire time and she was a part of it. its a discredit to her character to act like she would've been complicit in this at all. honestly even as a "shes doing it for her own motives" thing, she wouldnt do most of what she did. she was fighting brainwashed heroes and training villains and enabling clock king for the whole book just to go "wow nevermind" at the end

fighting brainwashed heroes is probably the worst decision mckeever could've made for her. she KNOWS what its like to be drugged, brainwashed, and forced to fight. and then she lets it happen in this book anyway and actively encourages it. i am strongly on team "rose makes lots of selfish decisions" but this is a line that she would Not cross. yeah she enjoys fighting & would want to enter a tournament like that. but she wouldnt choose to fight people that didnt have any agency in their fight

which makes it feel like a slap in the face when she brings it up in the last issue

surprise! after shes spent the entire book fighting the people that were mind controlled to fight her, she now realizes that its a bad thing. she knew this from the start so this part feels extremely unearned because, again, she knew this from the start. they dont even try to build up to this moment

(everybody strap in; im about to say something nice about williamson's rose for the first time) theres a really good comparison to be made between terror titans and robin 2021. theyre both tournaments that rose is fighting in with ulterior motives, but robin does it sooo much better. she keeps her morals, she helps damian, she kills people because its a tournament that they all agreed to be a part of & the whole point is that the pit will bring them back after they die. in terror titans, shes fighting heroes that dont know what theyre doing and standing back while clock king kills whoever he wants to. everything she did in robin was at least sort of in line with her character & morals, but in this book they have to ignore everything shes done in the past just for it to make sense that shes there

which brings me to the other big issue i have with this book. mckeever had to ignore and roll back so much character growth just for this book to happen

^ this part from tt03 #41 is basically explicitly saying that rose Doesnt Kill. she didnt kill anyone after joining the titans until mckeever took over and pretended that shes secretly been a killer the whole time.

not to mention the arc in tt #43-46 where the WHOLE POINT was that the titans trusted rose and didnt expect her to kill

"even wonder girl's been nice to me" but you wouldnt know it since they ignored that as soon as johns left.

like this dialogue would've made sense when rose first joined the team but to say shes "homicidal and warped beyond words" after rose & cassie had been starting to get along AND rose hadn't killed someone is infuriating, especially since this is followed up with rose trying to kill them and acting like this is what always happens

it almost feels insulting that we have to pretend that she hasnt had all these arcs of her getting closer to the team and Not Killing People just to get this arc that leads into terror titans

anyways all this to say, terror titans relies on us believing that rose wouldnt care about the team's interests, the team doesnt trust her, and that she is fine with killing people. which are all things that were explicitly disproven 10 issues before this.

PLUS she, for some reason, trusts clock king. she doesnt know anything about him and watches him do all these bad things. but we're supposed to believe that she feels a Connection because of their precog

not to mention. she knows exactly what he did to eddie. it would be a stretch to say that she could have a civil conversation with clock king after this, let alone work with him and talk about their Connection

honestly. 90% of my problems with this book would be fixed if she had secretly been working with m'gann the whole time

if the twist had just been "mgann was secretly there, and rose knew and was distracting clock king & the terror titans (and trying to get more intel) while mgann freed everyone" it would have made so much more sense. that way she has a reason to be competing in the tournament and working with them, AND she would be working with the titans & reestablishing the trust that she had

in conclusion this book is bad. but it does have one redeeming quality: the fight between rose and lorena where she chokes her with her thigh while pulling her hair

[misspickman]

moss might i please have some trans tim headcanons. or trans kon if you’re feeling it.

Hii blink thank you blink i always have those<3

Kon is nonbinary and transfem to me and i do have a more specific way this happens in mind which is he starts questioning his gender after already figuring out hes not straight, and this is a few years down the line post sb 2011, so hes getting comfortable living on the farm and having a group of friends there, being a part of the kent family (hes never had a family before!!) and its because of that new personal comfort and safety that he can think more about himself as a person and not just. An icon with a role.

I read his tt03 era as his big Repression Period (along with cassie) where he figures he has to be a Normal Real Boy so he ditches the 90s superboy charm for a more traditionally masculine look, which maybe works for his secret identity but isnt what he actually enjoys. So later he starts growing out his hair and tiptoes around more flashy costumes which are daunting now, because kon has a lot of hate for his younger self for being foolish and a try hard, and this all reminds him of himself back then.

Its a slow process but he will get there eventually and i think living with ma helps a lot. Being away from the public eye and with someone who wouldn't judge him for not wanting to look as masculine would do kon wonders. Also he hangs out a lot with the yj girls, and i imagine cissie would eventually she starts putting makeup on him for funsies (and bc cassie doesnt let her) which kon has many feelings about. No worries! Anita braids his hair like she did cissies so many times and kon goes haha does this mean im one of the girls now as a joke and then has many feelings about that too bc what if he Wants to be one of the girls? Uh oh

I have less of a specific timeline for tim so some scattered ones are:

It would take her a long time to make peace with being trans and to come out, bc imo tim would not be a fan of the Coming Out Process. Would hate to do it. Would only do it once its the last feasible option bc shes sick of lying (again) and being seen so wrongly by everyone. I think she just writes cassie a note or something like it would be funny.

Jack having been so obsessed with tim being his perfect masculine son would make all of this especially hard but also make certain stuff make more sense in retrospect. Its impossible to think about tim being queer in any way without thinking back on jacks behavior.

Theres a v sweet image in my head of helena braiding tims hair bc once she lets it grow out tim does not know what to do with it and helena has to do something about that (set in a future where helena knows tims identity. The cowl doesn't really show hair. But boy it must be sweaty gross in there).

While i think kon would be big into makeup and all sorts of fun clothes and shoes i dont imagine tim being That much into it, is not as much of a makeup girlie, loves a nice dress but mostly for occasions and such.

One of the reasons why itd take her so long to figure herself out is she mostly didnt get body dysphoria until she thought of the possibility of Not Being A Man and then started noticing little things that bothered her, bc tim would be very aware of which traditional standards for being a woman she is not fulfilling. Very aware of and held back by the Issue Of Bodies And How They Are Perceived, as you do.

The initial realization would probably be something sudden that she refuses to think about for a while bc tim v much lives by that post thats like i may be trans but i have a job so idc about that rn. Its in the back of her mind and she is Not examining it when there are bad guys to punch out there.