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aerithstrife20 · 4 months ago

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Cloud x Aerith fans, please do not believe this Cloti propaganda:

1. Live together?

Cloud has his own room with a bed at Seventh Heaven. Though this room has a lack of furnishings, this is likely due to Cloud’s erratic and busy delivery service he starts. Furthermore, a lack of furnishings doesn’t preclude one from sleeping in a bed.

In addition to Cloud’s separate room and bed, Marlene is stated to always sleep with Tifa, not Tifa and Cloud:

“Marlene, who had always slept with Tifa, slept with her foster father Barret the night before he left. Their conversations could be heard late into the night. Early the next morning, Barret set off.” ~Case of Tifa; Square Enix

We also know Cloud leaves Seventh Heaven to live in Aerith’s Church, something Tifa becomes jealous of:

“The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith. Final Fantasy VII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings. Advent Children: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s Church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.” ~Tifa’s character profile; 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

“Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in Advent Children, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; pg. 42-47; Square Enix

Cloud is still heartbroken over Aerith’s death, something Tifa is acutely aware of and jealous of, which only further exacerbates their problems throughout Case of Tifa.

“It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…” ~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix

“Cloud was the woman’s [Aerith] friend, and *koibito* [lover in Japanese]– a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White; Square Enix

Cloud and Tifa’s relationship in Case of Tifa is perpetually complicated by Cloud’s eternal feelings of love for Aerith.

2. Have two children?

Barret returns to living with Marlene, his adopted daughter, in Dirge of Cerberus:

“Currently he is living with Marlene, the orphaned child of his best friend, however…” ~Dirge of Cerberus Official Complete Guide; p.21; Square Enix

Cloud believes Aerith is the reason Denzel was lead to him:

“Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith’s church. That’s why I thought Aerith lead him to me.” ~Case of Tifa; Square Enix

Whether or not romance was or was not present between Cloud and Tifa is beside the point because it was not a factor in the formation of the family in Case of Tifa. This family cannot be used as evidence in favor of Cloud and Tifa because this family is a platonic [not romantic] family. Reviving the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family was Barret’s idea. One needs to only read Case of Tifa to see that this is true. Excluding Barret’s role in the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family is only meant to build up the false notion that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship.

Even Tifa agrees this is a ‘family of friends’ that has zero romantic connotations:

“Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other. Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best. Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.” ~Tifa Lockhart; Case of Tifa; Square Enix

3. Confirmed feelings?

Cloud and Tifa are stated to confirm feelings in the high affection Highwind scene, not the low affection Highwind scene:

“After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy” ~page 198; Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega; Square Enix

“Deviation – Two versions of the conversation before the final battle: Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232; Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

“Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together. At that moment,according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud, the event of “dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn” and “Tifa’s reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance” will be different.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled; page 201; Square Enix

Although the high affection Highwind scene has been given preferential treatment by Square Enix, preferential treatment doesn’t equal canon. Unlike the Cloud and Aerith date, which has been stated to be the ‘normal’ outcome by Square Enix, we have no idea which version of the Highwind scene is the ‘normal’ outcome.

Furthermore, Cloud and Tifa are going through serious problems that prevented them from being in a relationship regardless of which Highwind scene took place. Final Fantasy VII creator Nojima speaks of a premise that things “won’t go well” between Cloud and Tifa:

“Episode Tifa” [Case of Tifa] - first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same.“ ~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix

Did you catch that last bit? Even without circumstances such as geostigma and Sephiroth, things still probably wouldn’t have gone well between Cloud and Tifa. Without Sephiroth, Cloud wouldn’t have PTSD. Therefore, this speaks to the inherent issues that have persisted between Cloud and Tifa since childhood.

Nojima also says the children –Barret’s daughter, Marlene, and Cloud and Aerith’s spirit child, Denzel– **MIGHT** be able to help Cloud and Tifa sort through their problems:

“After Advent Children Complete, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out.” ~Nojima; On the Way to a Smile interview; Square Enix

Even after Cloud’s Geostigma and guilt is removed, and Sephiroth is defeated, Nojima still isn’t sure Cloud and Tifa will work out.

Nojima, the creator of Final Fantasy VII, has said two very important things:

Cloud and Tifa’s problems likely have nothing to do with geostigma and Sephiroth.

Even when the issues plaguing Cloud are resolved [his guilt, geostigma, and Sephiroth] Nojima still isn’t sure Cloud and Tifa will work out.

Both of these reasons tell us Cloud and Tifa have serious, inherent problems that prevent them from partaking in a healthy, long-lasting relationship.

Unfortunately, nothing between Cloud and Tifa has been shown to be resolved. Barret returns to living with Marlene in Dirge of Cerberus, and Cloud and Tifa’s relationship status is still unknown and in fractured territory.

Potential Criticisms:

1. "When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his geostigma – his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself.” ~Advent Children Complete Playback; 10th Anniversary Ultimania ; Square Enix

Response: A] The reason Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel are specifically mentioned in this quote is because Cloud leaves Seventh Heaven due to geostigma. Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, as it says in the quote, are the ones asking Cloud to heal his geostigma so he can return to living with them. Barret, of course, isn’t living with them at this time, which is why Barret is omitted from asking Cloud to heal his geostigma so that he can return to living at Seventh Heaven. B] Barret was also waiting for Cloud at the end of Advent Children, which is what the quote says, “…his family were waiting.” C] As we can see by simply reading Case of Tifa and Barret returning to Marlene in Dirge of Cerberus, he has and always will be a member of the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family. It makes zero sense for Marlene to be a member of two families, especially when Barret re-built the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family from the ground up to mirror the family that has always resided within the walls of Seventh Heaven. E] According to Tifa Lockhart, the family waiting for Cloud at the end of Advent Children is a ‘family of friends’:

Tifa is the one who tells us this family has zero romantic connotations and is a ‘family of friends.’ You don’t have to my word for it, all you have to do is bookmark the above quote.

2. Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel are stated on numerous occasions to be happily living together as a family.

Response:

“After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the Seventh Heaven bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.” ~Cloud Strife’s Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix

It says that the three of them [Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene] began living together after Barret set off on his journey. This unequivocally proves that when the words “live” / “living” / “lived” are used to describe Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, it is only excluding Barret because he is not technically living with them.

A] To reiterate: the key words in all the quotes discussing the four of them living together as a family are the words “live”/ “living”/ “lived.” Barret isn’t included in these quotes because he is temporarily not living with them. That should be obvious. However, his role in the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family has been firmly established since the beginning of Final Fantasy VII. Barret is simply a traveling Father – something many families deal with on a daily basis. However, just because your parent travels for a living doesn’t remove them from the very family they created. Bottom line is, of course Barret isn’t included in the quotes discussing Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel “living” together – he isn’t technically living with them. But you’d literally have to ignore everything in Case of Tifa if you actually wanted to remove Barret from the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family – the family he literally re-built from the ground up. Remember, all of this was Barret’s idea to begin with. B] Barret is confirmed to return to living with his daughter, Marlene, in Dirge of Cerberus:

“Currently he is living with Marlene, the orphaned child of his best friend, however…” ~Dirge of Cerberus Official Complete Guide; p.21; Square Enix

C] Before Denzel arrived, Cloud was rarely home and Tifa states their family life wasn’t very good. Marlene even tells Barret about their families dysfunction on the phone. D] The root of why Cloud felt the need to bring Denzel back to Seventh Heaven, the direct cause of the families new found happiness, is tied solely to Aerith. Cloud confirms this after Tifa’s strong-armed demands. E] The families new-found happiness is a result of Denzel coming into their lives, which wouldn’t have happened without Cloud’s belief Aerith lead Denzel to him. F] Tifa herself confirms this is a ‘family of friends.’ The family in question has zero romantic connotations according to Tifa.

3. Denzel views Cloud and Tifa as his Mother and Father.

Response: How Denzel views Cloud and Tifa has no relevance towards the possible romantic nature of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship and how they view each other. Of course Denzel views the only male figure and only female figure currently living at Seventh Heaven to be his Mother and Father. That’s only logical. But what Denzel thinks of them gives zero insight into how they view each other.

4. Ownership of the family is ascribed to Cloud, not Barret.

Cloti quote #1:

“Cloud brings Denzel back from the slum’s church and Denzel joins Cloud’s family.” ~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Complete Timeline; Square Enix

Response: A] If Tifa had found Denzel, the quote would have read: “…and Denzel joins Tifa’s family.” If Barret had found Denzel, the quote would have read: “…and Denzel joins Barret’s family.” This is a ‘family of friends’ that equally belongs to all of its members. B] “Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions.”~Barret Wallace’s Character Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix [See, ownership of the family is ascribed to Barret as well.]

Cloti quote #2:

“With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.”~Cloud Strife’s Character Profile, Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

Response: A] Of course the family is ascribed to Cloud in his character profile. However, all members of this ‘family of friends’ are equally entitled to ownership of the family. B] Ownership of the family is ascribed to Barret in his character profile as well: “Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed overtowards the crisis faced by his family and companions.” ~Barret Wallace’s Character Profile; Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania; Square Enix C] According to Tifa Lockhart, this is a ‘family of friends.’ D] One has to simply read Case of Tifa to see Cloud’s family is the AVALANCHE/Seventh Heaven family that was re-built with the help of founding member, Barret Wallace.

5. When Tifa discusses this ‘family of friends,’ she mentions all of them having the same sins. What are Marlene and Denzel’s sins?

Response: A] That would be a great question to pose to Tifa, though this red-herring doesn’t take away from the fact Tifa views this family as a ‘family of friends.’ B] I’d imagine Tifa doesn’t consider the children her friends, but rather children being raised by three friends that decided to form a family together.

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